Question about dragon ball universe size

[NHTkenshin2]

Exactly. This.

Anyway, considering how 5 staff members (if I count a promotion that hasn't happened yet) have already disagreed, and almost all the staff members that responded earlier with a "conditional" support have since then changed their views, we will just have to reject this (again). DB has not ended, it's an ongoing series, so the people who want infinite sized universe is Dragon Ball have nothing to worry about. A huge detail like that is bound to be mentioned in the series at some point if it is true.

I can make a blog about why Daizenshuu is contradictory in this regard. But that will take time due to me being busy. And it will mostly contain what I have said here. So a simpler solution for the time being is to make the suggested rule that Maverick Zero X quoted above and link this thread to it.

Yeah i agree, i think this really needs to happen.
Just compiling up all the reasons why it has been decided this way

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Exactly. This.

Anyway, considering how 5 staff members (if I count a promotion that hasn't happened yet) have already disagreed, and almost all the staff members that responded earlier with a "conditional" support have since then changed their views, we will just have to reject this (again). DB has not ended, it's an ongoing series, so the people who want infinite sized universe is Dragon Ball have nothing to worry about. A huge detail like that is bound to be mentioned in the series at some point if it is true.

You still choose to ignore everything we say to you and then attempt to close it without any explaination. Your response is honestly pretty weak since when confronted with arguments you didn't even addressed anything and decided to ignore everything we said and pretend all the scans and arguments don't exist. Saying that staff are right just because they are staff is argument from authority

 

[Antvasima]

Why don't you ask your best friend AKM, he composited the cosmology of Toei, and main canon manga. DBS anime is canon to Z manga and Chou is just DBS but manga. Remember the 2-C Toei thread from Zamasu??? he use manga scan to debunk anime scan, so why are you still asking??

I thought that we consider the DBZ manga to have two continuations that are equally valid in DBS and Chou, and that the Toei anime is considered separate. At least we have separate character profile pages for these different versions.

Again, Heavily contradicted???, so can you by yourself explain why it contradicted?????

I do not know. It is not my area. I was speaking hypothetically.

 

[AKM sama]

Why don't you ask your best friend AKM, he composited the cosmology of Toei, and main canon manga. DBS anime is canon to Z manga and Chou is just DBS but manga. Remember the 2-C Toei thread from Zamasu??? he use manga scan to debunk anime scan, so why are you still asking??

That is very misleading. Why are you bringing that up here? The cosmology is same but none of that affects how the manga and Daizenshuu showcase information in this regard. We didn't even talk about different continuities here.

You still choose to ignore everything we say to you and then attempt to close it without any explaination.

I apologize if you feel that you were not heard or your arguments were not answered. But look at it from my perspective. I am a single person, and half of dozen of people are coming with half a dozen of arguments. I cannot respond to all of them. I have limits. I responded to the main arguments brought by Zamasu and others that I felt were worth responding. I did not respond to arguments that I had already responded to, or those that I felt my other responses kinda covered them, or those that seemed inconsequential. So either you can deduce my responses to you from my previous comments, or they didn't change very much in the grand scheme of things. You cannot seriously expect me to respond to each and every comment here.

Yes, but we need to make this clear to our members, so they know that we have not actually thrown a lid on the entire matter, but rather just said "wait and see".

How about this then:
"We do not use the Daizenshuu (and guides based on Daizenshuu) as a reliable source to determine Universe 7's size because many claims regarding universe's size and structure like the existence of four galaxies, or them existing infinitely, the universe being infinite, the afterlife being infinite, etc. have been found contradictory. The cosmology is subject to change only if we get new information from the ongoing anime/manga."

We can link this thread to the rule. And I am very certain that the "infinite afterlife" thread also took place in the recent past, so if someone can find it, we can link it too.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Was there a statement calling afterlife infinite?

That is very misleading. Why are you bringing that up here? The cosmology is same but none of that affects how the manga and Daizenshuu showcase information in this regard. We didn't even talk about different continuities here.


I apologize if you feel that you were not heard or your arguments were not answered. But look at it from my perspective. I am a single person, and half of dozen of people are coming with half a dozen of arguments. I cannot respond to all of them. I have limits. I responded to the main arguments brought by Zamasu and others that I felt were worth responding. I did not respond to arguments that I had already responded to, or those that I felt my other responses kinda covered them, or those that seemed inconsequential. So either you can deduce my responses to you from my previous comments, or they didn't change very much in the grand scheme of things. You cannot seriously expect me to respond to each and every comment here.


How about this then:
"We do not use the Daizenshuu (and guides based on Daizenshuu) as a reliable source to determine Universe 7's size because many claims regarding universe's size and structure like the existence of four galaxies, or them existing infinitely, the universe being infinite, the afterlife being infinite, etc. have been found contradictory. The cosmology is subject to change only if we get new information from the ongoing anime/manga."

We can link this thread to the rule. And I am very certain that the "infinite afterlife" thread also took place in the recent past, so if someone can find it, we can link it too.

 

[Antvasima]

How about this then:
"We do not use the Daizenshuu (and previously released guides based on Daizenshuu) as a reliable source to determine Universe 7's size because many claims regarding its size and structure, such as the existence of four galaxies, or them existing infinitely, the universe being infinite, the afterlife being infinite, etc. have been found contradictory. However, the cosmology is subject to change if we get reliable information from new anime episodes, movies, manga chapters, and/or official guidebooks."

We can link this thread to the rule. And I am very certain that the "infinite afterlife" thread also took place in the past, so if someone can find it, we can link it too.

That is probably fine, although I modified the wording of your rule above.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I apologize if you feel that you were not heard or your arguments were not answered. But look at it from my perspective. I am a single person, and half of dozen of people are coming with half a dozen of arguments. I cannot respond to all of them. I have limits. I responded to the main arguments brought by Zamasu and others that I felt were worth responding. I did not respond to arguments that I had already responded to, or those that I felt my other responses kinda covered them, or those that seemed inconsequential. So either you can deduce my responses to you from my previous comments, or they didn't change very much in the grand scheme of things. You cannot seriously expect me to respond to each and every comment here.

When this comment directly concerns the arguments that YOU are trying to make and that we directly present evidence, then yeah, I expect you to go over my points, and respond. This is how we debate and you being staff doesn't change this. If you want to say we're wrong.
It still doesn't change how you still argue from authority when you said about the staff, and it still doesn't change how your argument solely relies on a name fallacy, which if you'd read my response to you, you'd see that I already addressed that

 

[Vietthai96]

That is very misleading. Why are you bringing that up here? The cosmology is same but none of that affects how the manga and Daizenshuu showcase information in this regard. We didn't even talk about different continuities here.

Why it is misleading, you literally composited cosmology, anyway this is my reply to Ant

How about this then:
"We do not use the Daizenshuu (and guides based on Daizenshuu) as a reliable source to determine Universe 7's size because many claims regarding universe's size and structure like the existence of four galaxies, or them existing infinitely, the universe being infinite, the afterlife being infinite, etc. have been found contradictory. The cosmology is subject to change only if we get new information from the ongoing anime/manga."

Again, you still using name fallacy, and even ignore every arguments, how it is legit on your part????, all the time you have no new argument aside from nitpicking the Galaxy part, which we pointed out repeatedly that it is just a name for the section, nothing in Daizenshuu even say that each area made up only 1

And I am very certain that the "infinite afterlife" thread also took place in the recent past, so if someone can find it, we can link it too.

Was there a statement calling afterlife infinite?

There is no infinite afterlife, some people randomly claim this without evidences, or they scale it to the living universe, that all

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Guys, I know you want Infinite Dragon Ball. But now I realized that this is absurd.

Tell me, what benefits you guys gain from getting frustrated or sad over fictional characters?..,non.
Just a waste of mental energy and emotional health.

If this thread is rejected, then is rejected, not everything on this world is going to work the way you want.
Guys, just leave the phone or the computer, take a deep breath, study or do exercise......
Trust me, btw this is the main reason why I'm less active this moths, is good to take a break for our health.

Getting mad over this things is a waste of our time.

 

[Vietthai96]

Guys, I know you want Infinite Dragon Ball. But now I realized that this is absurd.

Tell me, what benefits you guys gain from getting frustrated or sad over fictional characters?..,non.
Just a waste of mental and emotional health.

If this thread is rejected, then is rejected, not everything on this world is going to work the way you want.
Guys, just leave the phone or the computer, take a deep breath, study or do exercise......
Trust me, btw this is the main reason why I'm less active this moths, is good to take a break for our health.

Getting mad over this things is a waste of our time.

I'm mad not because of rating, but blatantly bad arguments come from a staffs. And using the excuse that bruh this is fiction is one of the worst excuse, if you just: bruh this is just fiction, then why join vs debate in the first place???

 

[Hasty12345]

Guys, I know you want Infinite Dragon Ball. But now I realized that this is absurd.

Tell me, what benefits you guys gain from getting frustrated or sad over fictional characters?..,non.
Just a waste of mental energy and emotional health.

If this thread is rejected, then is rejected, not everything on this world is going to work the way you want.
Guys, just leave the phone or the computer, take a deep breath, study or do exercise......
Trust me, btw this is the main reason why I'm less active this moths, is good to take a break for our health.

Getting mad over this things is a waste of our time.

What even is this comment? No one cares about ratings, this is about principle at this point.

 

[Arthex]

Guys, I know you want Infinite Dragon Ball. But now I realized that this is absurd.

Tell me, what benefits you guys gain from getting frustrated or sad over fictional characters?..,non.
Just a waste of mental energy and emotional health.

If this thread is rejected, then is rejected, not everything on this world is going to work the way you want.
Guys, just leave the phone or the computer, take a deep breath, study or do exercise......
Trust me, btw this is the main reason why I'm less active this moths, is good to take a break for our health.

Getting mad over this things is a waste of our time.

Personally look at it this way, the people sent hours debating, getting scans and doing this shit just for their arguments to be ignored? I don't exactly think thats something acceptable.

 

[Hasty12345]

This website cannot and will not survive if this stuff continues.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

This has nothing to do with ratings. However when the pro side arguments constantly get ignored by staff and they respond with weak arguments, then it's infuriating because it feels like a waste of time

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

if you just: bruh this is just fiction, then why join vs debate in the first place???

I like to debate, but I always tend to priorize my daily activities over this wiki, is good to take a break and Focus on irl stuff.
Btw that's why I was less active this months.

I'm active in the wiki, but I'm like, only 2 or 1 hour per 2 days of the week.

 

[Arthex]

Btw where did 5 staffs disagree? The only one I saw were either neutral or didn't have a opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

I have asked AKM if it is fine with him if Vietthai and Gilad explain all of the remaining points that they want him to consider and respond to in a single post, so we do not risk to close this thread prematurely.

I think that they have always been well-behaved members in the past.

 

[Vietthai96]

I like to debate, but I always tend to priorize my daily activities over this wiki, is good to take a break and Focus on daily activities.
Btw that's why I was less active this months.

I'm active in the wiki, but I'm like, only 2 or 1 hour per 2 days of the week.

Sorry, that your life, don't apply it on me. My principle is simple, i will not bend to anyone, that all

Btw where did 5 staffs disagree? The only one I saw were either neutral or didn't have a opinion.

Because AKM, that all, they agree with whatever AKM say, normal user have no saying at all

I have asked AKM if it is fine with him if Vietthai and Gilad explain all of the remaining points that they want him to consider and respond to, so we do not risk to close this thread prematurely.

Like, what Ant??. Me, Zamasu, Otta, Gilad, even OwO already post all kind of scan to defend our arguments, even screenshot from Herm, but AKM didn't even bother to reply, and he constantly nitpicking the 4 galaxies part just to defend his argument, and all the Daizenshuu being self-contradictory. Literally he has no new argument, his scan is cropped which we already pointed out, and the galaxies part is already being debunked, as they are just a denomination, a nickname for the sector that kaio watch over. And now he is rushing to close the thread and make another discussion rule. Do you know that we have like 8 discussion rules for Dragon Ball already, this is the 9th one

 

[Antvasima]

This website cannot and will not survive if this stuff continues.

That seems like a major exaggeration. I think that we manage to handle most revision threads quite well. Even if we occasionally mess up, it doesn't suddenly invalidate all of the good we have done elsewhere.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

This has nothing to do with ratings

No one cares about ratings

I'm mad not because of rating,

Guys, be honest, yes, you guys are frustrated that your arguments are being "ignored" becouse in one way or another, you want this upgrade to go through, if it wasn't like that, you wouldn't be so frustrated about it.

This is normal and natural, of course you guys would like infinite Dragon Ball, everyone would like their favourite character to be upgraded, including me....., I would hate the fact that my character could get downgraded over being upgraded.

It would be an hipocresy to claim that you guys have no preference, everyone has a preference and that's okay.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Guys, be honest, yes, you guys are frustrated that your arguments are being "ignored" becouse in one way or another, you want this upgrade to go through, if it wasn't like that, you guys wouldn't be so frustrated about it.

This is normal and natural, of course you guys would like infinite Dragon Ball, everyone would like their favourite character to be upgraded, including me....., I would hate the fact that my character could get downgraded over being upgraded.

It would be an hipocresy to claim that you guys have no preference, everyone has a preference and that's okay.

You do realise these opinions of yours are kinda irrelevant here?
You already declared it in past comments, we understand and respect it but repeatedly forcing it down people's throats isn't healthy.

You are distracting now.

 

[Arthex]

Guys, be honest, yes, you guys are frustrated that your arguments are being "ignored" becouse in one way or another, you want this upgrade to go through, if it wasn't like that, you wouldn't be so frustrated about it.

This is normal and natural, of course you guys would like infinite Dragon Ball, everyone would like their favourite character to be upgraded, including me....., I would hate the fact that my character could get downgraded over being upgraded.

It would be an hipocresy to claim that you guys have no preference, everyone has a preference and that's okay.

"You want your favorite character to get upgraded" Why wouldn't we? When we have solid proof enough to upgrade our fav character to a certain level and we create a crt, I don't see how that's wrong.

At this point, You are basically shouting that you dont want this upgrade to happen just cuz its db.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Sorry, that your life, don't apply it on me. My principle is simple, i will not bend to anyone, that all

I didn't say that you have to follow my life style, lol.

I just recommended you to don't take this debating stuff so personal, becouse the world doesn't end here if this thread gets rejected.

 

[Antvasima]

Like, what Ant??. Me, Zamasu, Otta, Gilad, even OwO already post all kind of scan to defend our arguments, even screenshot from Herm, but AKM didn't even bother to reply, and he constantly nitpicking the 4 galaxies part just to defend his argument, and all the Daizenshuu being self-contradictory. Literally he has no new argument, his scan is cropped which we already pointed out, and the galaxies part is already being debunked, as they are just a denomination, a nickname for the sector that kaio watch over. And now he is rushing to close the thread and make another discussion rule. Do you know that we have like 8 discussion rules for Dragon Ball already, this is the 9th one

Well, the problem is that I do not have a good enough grasp of the details of what is being discussed here to have any particular opinion regarding this myself, and in such situations I cannot exactly start picking fights with other crucial staff members when I don't even have any good arguments.

It would probably help to potentially convince AKM if you, Gilad, and the other knowledgeable members talk in private and write a single post that explains all of the remaining points that you have in a concise and easy to understand manner. Again, AKM has very limited time available, and this discussion has been all over the place.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

You do realise these opinions of yours are kinda irrelevant here?
You already declared it in past comments, we understand and respect it but repeatedly forcing it down people's throats isn't healthy.

You are distracting now.

Yeah I know, sorry about that

 

[Hasty12345]

That seems like a major exaggeration. I think that we manage to handle most revision threads quite well. Even if we occasionally mess up, it doesn't suddenly invalidate all of the good we have done elsewhere.

Ant, I do not think I’m exaggerating at all, and I’m not saying good things are being invalidated.

No community thrives when those in positions of power ignore those underneath them.

On a site that relies on community, I hope you can see how that’s a problem.

 

[Jinsama]

Guys, be honest, yes, you guys are frustrated that your arguments are being "ignored" becouse in one way or another, you want this upgrade to go through, if it wasn't like that, you wouldn't be so frustrated about it.

This is normal and natural, of course you guys would like infinite Dragon Ball, everyone would like their favourite character to be upgraded, including me....., I would hate the fact that my character could get downgraded over being upgraded.

It would be an hipocresy to claim that you guys have no preference, everyone has a preference and that's okay.

how ironic

 

[Arthex]

Ant, I do not think I’m exaggerating at all, and I’m not saying good things are being invalidated.

No community thrives when those in positions of power ignore those underneath them.

On a site that relies on community, I hope you can see how that’s a problem.

I guess you mean "When higher staff don't know about a series they trust a another staff more than a 100 members shouting its correct."

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Anyways, I already gave my opinion on this matter. Let's stop delearing

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It would probably help to potentially convince AKM if you, Gilad, and the other knowledgeable members talk in private and write a single post that explains all of the remaining points that you have in a concise and easy to understand manner.

Or maybe, just maybe, have AKM actually respond to our arguments rather than keep ignorong our point. We can only do so much (and we did a lot) when AKM refuses to acknowledge our arguments and debate us properly

 

[Hasty12345]

Guys, be honest, yes, you guys are frustrated that your arguments are being "ignored" becouse in one way or another, you want this upgrade to go through, if it wasn't like that, you wouldn't be so frustrated about it.

This is normal and natural, of course you guys would like infinite Dragon Ball, everyone would like their favourite character to be upgraded, including me....., I would hate the fact that my character could get downgraded over being upgraded.

It would be an hipocresy to claim that you guys have no preference, everyone has a preference and that's okay.

I care about how users are being treated and what arguments are presented.

I don’t think I’m being hypocritical at all, I neither agree nor disagree to this change, in fact, I think it’s wildly unimportant to DB scaling, given the current top tiers are tier 2.

 

[Arthex]

Anyways, I already said my opinion on this matter. Let's stop delearing

Yeah thats it, when your opinion is rejected/debunked just end it with a "Lets stop derailing" thing, like why did you do it in the first place?

 

[Antvasima]

Ant, I do not think I’m exaggerating at all, and I’m not saying good things are being invalidated.

No community thrives when those in positions of power ignore those underneath them.

On a site that relies on community, I hope you can see how that’s a problem.

It isn't about anybody here trying to be a tyrant. AKM is just the only staff member who even seems to have an interest in properly evaluating this, given the length and intensity of the discussion, but he is very busy IRL and doesn't have much time available, so he eventually gets tired and cannot focus on more important forum and wiki tasks because of this. That is all. There is no nefarious anti-Dragon Ball master plan agenda.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Yeah thats it, when your opinion is rejected/debunked just end it with a "Lets stop derailing" thing, like why did you do it in the first place?

Is not "debunked" lol. I didn't even try to convince anyone here.

I just wanted to express my opinion on this matter, that's all.

 

[Antvasima]

Or maybe, just maybe, have AKM actually respond to our arguments rather than keep ignorong our point. We can only do so much (and we did a lot) when AKM refuses to acknowledge our arguments and debate us properly

Again, he has very limited time and energy available for this, and has plenty of more important tasks to do, both IRL and in this community. If you all try to make things much simpler for him than trying to make sense of disparate points spread out over several hundred posts, that would really help for his time schedule.

 

[Antvasima]

It would probably help to potentially convince AKM if you, Gilad, and the other knowledgeable members talk in private and write a single post that explains all of the remaining points that you have in a concise and easy to understand manner. Again, AKM has very limited time available, and this discussion has been all over the place.

Again, I would heavily encourage you all to cooperate with me regarding this.

 

[Arthex]

Again, he has very limited time and energy available for this, and has plenty of more important tasks to do, both IRL and in this community. If you all try to make things much simpler for him than trying to make sense of disparate points spread out over several hundred posts, that would really help for his time schedule.

Yeah okay I agree he has limited time and is pretty busy aswell, but why is he trying to make a rule and close this thread without even replying to all the arguments though? Dosen't exactly sounds like something staffs should do tbh

 

[Vietthai96]

Again, he has very limited time and energy available for this, and has plenty of more important tasks to do, both IRL and in this community. If you all try to make things simpler for him than trying to make sense of disparate points spread out over several hundred posts, that would really help for his time schedule.

This is not an excuse Ant, he have limited time, we all fine with it, in fact, through the entire thread we always wait for him to response, even when this thread just new and we have some agreement from staffs, we also still waiting for him to response before doing anything. But what did he do, he ignore all of our arguments only to favor his own arguments, and make it like it is fact while our is nothing, we repeatedly posting scan to defend our points, but he ignore them all the time, paid no attention, and repeatedly recite the same thing over and over which we already debunk, and then he rush to make discussion rule and close the thread. is it acceptable in your eyes to ignore all normal users arguments think them as nothing but unimportance comment???

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

How about this then:
"We do not use the Daizenshuu (and guides based on Daizenshuu) as a reliable source to determine Universe 7's size because many claims regarding universe's size and structure like the existence of four galaxies, or them existing infinitely, the universe being infinite, the afterlife being infinite, etc. have been found contradictory. The cosmology is subject to change only if we get new information from the ongoing anime/manga."

We can link this thread to the rule. And I am very certain that the "infinite afterlife" thread also took place in the recent past, so if someone can find it, we can link it too.

Looks good. Here are other threadswhere infinite DB was discussed if more examples are needed.

 

[Hasty12345]

It isn't about anybody here trying to be a tyrant. AKM is just the only staff member who even seems to have an interest in properly evaluating this, given the length and intensity of the discussion, but he is very busy IRL and doesn't have much time available, so he eventually gets tired and cannot focus on more important forum and wiki tasks because of this. That is all. There is no nefarious anti-Dragon Ball master plan agenda.

I don’t think there’s an anti-DB agenda.

But I do think there’s an ongoing issue on this site where a lot of staff seem to just “not want to” or are “uninterested” in evaluating threads, when, and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s more or less their job?

I feel so bad when I see you on almost every thread pinging 5+ staff members to evaluate CRT’s and they just seemingly ignore you or blow off their staff responsibilities.

it’s not AKM’s sole responsibility to debate 5 DB supporters on this thread by himself.

I honestly am starting to think there should be rules out in place that require staff to partake in threads in some form. Obviously real life comes first and I understand that, but something must be done to bridge the gap between regular users and staff members that gets rid of this “us vs them” mentality, and reduces the stress on single staff members in these situations.