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I know about travel speed, reread what I wrote, and the UeTa comment.
Read my comment 😤
Kizaru isn't light speed only with that technique... 🤔 not fully sure what you mean... Kizaru starts moving when he starts moving... Oh I see, still tho the path is also very fast and we see kizaru move first and then Rayleigh even tho he knows the path, he doesn't know when (if precog isn't used)
We see kizaru move first and then Rayleigh... That's not aim dodging/aim hitting
 
I know, But Rayleigh feat is based on this technique. And it seems that he intercepted Kizaru before he turned into light by predicting the path he was gonna take. (By cutting the light path that got drawn in front of his eyes.)
Headcanon, this is never shown. Kizaru's legs were already in the air, he already in movement and Rayleigh could him down. Also the "Path" idea is rendered moot whenever Kizaru's light literally blinds the opponent regardless of Kenbunshoku Haki as seen with Whitebeard, chances are that Rayleigh most likely wasn't able to see much of Kizaru's luminous light.
Also, did we ever directly saw Kizaru turning into a straight up laser? Without any "prep." before that? I don't remember seeing him to something like that. And for the kick moving at Lightspeed, it's only my opinion, but I think it's just the power of his kick enhanced by light. Just like how his sword doesn't move at Lightspeed. He materializes solid light. And everything made out of light is not always LS. This is one of the easiest lightspeed's feat rule to understand.
None of this makes sense either, for real actually read what your writing. There is no "prep" for Logia's turning into their element, there has never been a charging period for the transformation. Also Kizaru directly stated that his kick is LS, not that he's using light to enhance his AP. Kizaru as a Logia user is able to physically interact with his own element as if it were a solid, a common trait in Logia's. Or am I gonna say that since Laxus can make solid lightning that he isn't MHS+ now? Hm.
So that's basically what I'm asking for. In your prediction calculation, even the character Kizaru defeated with great ease has far better reaction time than his. (FTL+ vs. FTL). So it look very inconsistent, and If the Rayleigh feat is in fact just path prediction, lot of them will also drop I guess. (except the other beam dodging one of course)
The Rayleigh feat isn't a prediction feat, that's just you quite frankly not being knowledgeable enough about the verse to know what's happening in the panels. Please don't spread misinformation, thank you.
 
should characters really scale if they dodge lasers from slower characters? I agree with everything else tho
 
Monkey, nobody is saying his light fruit is FTL. Stop misinterpreting the OP
 
Can I ask one question to set my opinion? In the One Piece Open World game. (In which Oda helped If Im not wrong) as well as other and the Anime. We saw that this "move" from Kizaru is indeed Lightspeed but it is in quotes, "predictable". It draws a path of light that tells you where he is going to go and which may tell why Rayleigh is looking at this "path" AND why Kizaru was still there before moving. Then, he starts to turn into light particles and move at the speed of light.
Why would evidence from a game and the anime be used as counter evidence?
 
Also where's anyone proof that Kizaru's fruit makes him slower when Oda constantly stated that DEVIL FRUITS are capable of evolving, the more you trains your fruit the stronger it gets, Kizaru is an Admiral who has more than 20 years of experience.

Kizaru isn't just "Light speed". He's the personification of Light itself. Has anyone ever looked at pure light? The brightness of light is a part of Kizaru's abilities. He turns one of his limbs into light, typically his leg precisely because that even people with Kenbunshoku Haki can't dodge due to the brightness of his light, on top of that with his already ridiculously fast speed.

Can anyone prove that the guidelines, Oda and Kizaru himself who knows his devil fruit the best are blatantly lying to us, despite consistently and constantly proven that he his attacks indeed travel at the speed of light?
 
Kizaru's base being faster than his light form was already covered in the OP with sufficient proof. His light form allows him to travel more effectively, making him much more agile and evasive in this form. Character's can react to his light speed attacks, but he uses his natural inherent speed to combat most of the Characters who are capable of LS reactions such as Whitebeard. Whitebeard caught Kizaru in his light form, and afterwards Kizaru Blitzed Whitebeard using his normal speed.


Put two and two together, this isn't difficult to comprehend.
 
All these things are already covered in the OP. But then again, I was expecting for "But Kizaru!!" Argument, would be weird if that was not the case.
Literally all it takes is one user spreading misinformation to kill a thread. Someone here Literally posted evidence from a non canon game as a counter against FTL, and people almost FRA'd it. Please for the love of God actually read what your writing and do proper research, we almost had a repeat of the last FTL thread because people wanna use invalid forms of citation while also ignoring literal statements in the Manga. (Ueta said Kizaru's kick wasn't LS, whenever it's directly stated it is.)
 
Literally all it takes is one user spreading misinformation to kill a thread. Someone here Literally posted evidence from a non canon game as a counter against FTL, and people almost FRA'd it. Please for the love of God actually read what your writing and do proper research, we almost had a repeat of the last FTL thread because people wanna use invalid forms of citation while also ignoring literal statements in the Manga. (Ueta said Kizaru's kick wasn't LS, whenever it's directly stated it is.)
Nobody of them refuted Tempest's OP directly. In all seriousness since when is a non-canon game a more reliable source than guidelines/guidebooks, statements and feats? honestly. this is getting too ridiculous, why is it that hard to pay attention to the OP?
 
Headcanon, this is never shown. Kizaru's legs were already in the air, he already in movement and Rayleigh could him down. Also the "Path" idea is rendered moot whenever Kizaru's light literally blinds the opponent regardless of Kenbunshoku Haki as seen with Whitebeard, chances are that Rayleigh most likely wasn't able to see much of Kizaru's luminous light.

None of this makes sense either, for real actually read what your writing. There is no "prep" for Logia's turning into their element, there has never been a charging period for the transformation. Also Kizaru directly stated that his kick is LS, not that he's using light to enhance his AP. Kizaru as a Logia user is able to physically interact with his own element as if it were a solid, a common trait in Logia's. Or am I gonna say that since Laxus can make solid lightning that he isn't MHS+ now? Hm.

The Rayleigh feat isn't a prediction feat, that's just you quite frankly not being knowledgeable enough about the verse to know what's happening in the panels. Please don't spread misinformation, thank you.
When I was talking 'bout prediction feat I was talking about X Drake and Hawkins having better perception than Kizaru. But whatever. Look like you hasn't even clicked on the link presented on the CRT and accept it blindly, Gin?

Also, yeah, he may be Lightspeed without this path-of-light thing. But he still used that next to Rayleigh, even Brook saw the light reaching him and you see that Kizaru and Rayleigh were still on the ground, they didn't move an inch. (Anime confirm that)

Also in the game, it takes some time for him to move all the light particles to point A to point B. So Rayleigh may get the reflex to cut the path in front of him the moment he saw the particles moving apart of his body. But yes, this may all be headcanon... just like how you think FT is tier 7.
smug-anime.gif
 
When I was talking 'bout prediction feat I was talking about X Drake and Hawkins having better perception than Kizaru. But whatever. Look like you hasn't even clicked on the link presented on the CRT and accept it blindly, Gin?

Also, yeah, he may be Lightspeed without this path-of-light thing. But he still used that next to Rayleigh, even Brook saw the light reaching him and you see that Kizaru and Rayleigh were still on the ground, they didn't move an inch. (Anime confirm that)

Also in the game, it takes some time for him to move all the light particles to point A to point B. So Rayleigh may get the reflex to cut the path in front of him the moment he saw the particles moving apart of his body. But yes, this may all be headcanon... just like how you think FT is tier 7.
smug-anime.gif
First of all, the Game is non-canon and secondly READ THE OP PROPERLY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE.

You are spreading misinformation right now, if you actually disagree with the FTL ratings, then address the OP directly, simple.
 
Hmm that comment really shows how mature and knowledgeable you are Ueta. Unless you have something valuable to say I suggest you unfollow the thread. You've made it abundantly clear that you aren't taking this thread seriously, ignoring your bias snarky remarks.



Anime at this point isn't canon either, again showing you aren't knowledgeable enough to discuss what's going on. Also cute FT comment, but I think your bias is showing here. This is a OP CRT, not a FT CRT or what I think about the verses power scaling. Not sure where you got me thinking FT is tier 7 only, despite them showing feats beyond that. I presume this is just a pathetic attempt to bait me, good try though.
 
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I'll tackle that particular part of the OP then.

Against Rayleigh, after he got casually intercepted (this time he was firing a laser as he got intercepted), TWICE, he just formed his light sword and ended up fighting Rayleigh with his regular speed here, here, and here. No light eminating from his limbs.

No comment on the Rayleigh stuff really; Kizaru did fight him with his swordmanship. But the difference is that when he was just trying to move past him, he wasn't focusing on Rayleigh / he wasn't actually trying to fight him at that point. When going around him using a lightspeed travel technique didn't work, he fought him head-on.

Against Marco, after he got casually intercepted, he was either using laser spam like before or he attacked him off guard here and here, but he mainly fought with his regular physicals.

The only scan given for Kizaru "mainly fighting with regular physicals" against Marco is one panel of him blocking Marco's kick with his arm. Just because he didn't move his arm using his Devil Fruit didn't mean he was moving it even faster than if he had used his Devil Fruit. It could just be that he knew he was fast enough to block the very clear, head-on attack using a simple block.

Against Whitebeard, he got intercepted by a more injured Whitebeard. and he only managed to hit him with lightspeed lasers when he held him down via his Bisento. Even when he shot the ones at him from the ones that Marco intercepted, Whitebeard was casually commenting on the brightness of the lasers.

Whitebeard casually commenting on the lasers doesn't matter that much IMO because those attacks are coming at him from a fair distance; dozens of meters away at least. A very different situation to fighting someone at close/point-blank range. Kizaru himself doesn't need to be way faster than those lasers in order to give Whitebeard a challenge up close.

Kizaru did manage to get intercepted by Whitebeard as he was in the process of transforming into light but I believe that it looks like Kizaru was prevented from reaching his actual travel speed thanks to Whitebeard's intervention.


I think that the other interpretation is fair, but I don't personally believe that these instances of Kizaru fighting proves that his ordinary speed is much faster than his devil fruit. He uses lightspeed attacks against both fodder and top tier characters.
 
Whitebeard casually commenting on the lasers doesn't matter that much IMO because those attacks are coming at him from a fair distance; dozens of meters away at least. A very different situation to fighting someone at close/point-blank range. Kizaru himself doesn't need to be way faster than those lasers in order to give Whitebeard a challenge up close.

Kizaru did manage to get intercepted by Whitebeard as he was in the process of transforming into light but I believe that it looks like Kizaru was prevented from reaching his actual travel speed thanks to Whitebeard's intervention.
IMG_20210722_211601.png

(Do I honestly need to repost the same scan again?)
 
I mean for lightspeed that’s still far less than a second of time to react
Not denying it isn't impressive. Just pointing out that there's a difference between reacting to something coming at you head on from dozens of meters away and reacting to somebody up close and in your face. The latter can be tougher even if they are slower than the former.
 
@RazumaHiroki; that doesn't have much to do with my point. Marco's talking about Squard's attack.
He was specifically talking about whitebeard's current state. He was on the verge of death without his life supports, Whitebeard in this state is incapable of dodging and reacting attacks he normally would dodge and react.
 
Why would evidence from a game and the anime be used as counter evidence?
I mean, you use sometime the anime since it's a "secondary canon". If the anime show that this transportation technique is not instantaneous, then is not. It will be quite weird to use the anime only lead to upgrade, when it can also lead to a downgrade. If you use the anime as a secondary canon you take everything that comes with it.
 
He was specifically talking about whitebeard's current state. He was on the verge of death without his life supports, Whitebeard in this state is incapable of dodging and reacting attacks he normally would dodge and react.
Sure, Marco's statement means that Whitebeard could absolutely normally react to and dodge Squard's attack.

It doesn't mean he can normally dodge anything and everything in existence.
 
Hmm that comment really shows how mature and knowledgeable you are Ueta. Unless you have something valuable to say I suggest you unfollow the thread. You've made it abundantly clear that you aren't taking this thread seriously, ignoring your bias snarky remarks.



Anime at this point isn't canon either, again showing you aren't knowledgeable enough to discuss what's going on. Also cute FT comment, but I think your bias is showing here. This is a OP CRT, not a FT CRT or what I think about the verses power scaling. Not sure where you got me thinking FT is tier 7 only, despite them showing feats beyond that. I presume this is just a pathetic attempt to bait me, good try though.
We got screens tho. 👀
 
I mean, you use sometime the anime since it's a "secondary canon". If the anime show that this transportation technique is not instantaneous, then is not. It will be quite weird to use the anime only lead to upgrade, when it can also lead to a downgrade. If you use the anime as a secondary canon you take everything that comes with it.
Wow, even more misinformation, intentionally at that. The anime is only secondary canon once it gets into the Zou Saga and onward. I'm pretty sure this is even stated on the verse page, so no actually we don't need to take "everything" that comes with it. Do your research, thank you.
 
I mean, you use sometime the anime since it's a "secondary canon". If the anime show that this transportation technique is not instantaneous, then is not. It will be quite weird to use the anime only lead to upgrade, when it can also lead to a downgrade. If you use the anime as a secondary canon you take everything that comes with it.
Stop derailing the thread with irrelevant things. Also, allow me to clarify something; no One piece game is canon, they are completely unrelated to the continuations such as the Anime and Manga (the manga is the primary canon).
 
Stunning work, King. I agree.


Also seeing Chopper getting an FTL rating was definitely an eye opener for me. Is that gonna be a valid feat for him? Or an outlier? Or.. what? Is Chopper going to have an Onigashima Raid profile? Will the other Strawhats (namely Brook) scale from that (since he's one of the faster Strawhats, putting him above Chopper)? Also I'm not sure if this is true, but I saw somewhere on the thread that Monster Point Chopper is one of his slower/slowest forms? If that's the case, will his other forms scale?
 
We got screens tho. 👀
Firstly, don't care. Secondly, this is yet again an OP thread. I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring FT into a One Piece thread, other than to intentionally start drama. Yeah I think this thread would be better if you just unfollowed it, unless you have anything actually relevant to add to this discussion.
 
Sure, Marco's statement means that Whitebeard could absolutely normally react to and dodge Squard's attack.

It doesn't mean he can normally dodge anything and everything in existence.
Show me one moment where Whitebeard ever attempted to dodge an attack. If Whitebeard can't dodge Squardo's attack, then he cannot dodge Ace's attack, which also means again He can't dodge Kizaru and Akainu's attacks.

You would need to proof that Squardo is faster than Kizaru or Ace, when the Ace novel straight up confirms Ace to be far stronger than him.
 
Firstly, don't care. Secondly, this is yet again an OP thread. I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring FT into a One Piece thread, other than to intentionally start drama. Yeah I think this thread would be better if you just unfollowed it, unless you have anything actually relevant to add to this discussion.
I added a relevant things tho, and I just asked a question to begin with lol. (Also it's you who bringed FT in?)
 
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