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Pre-Timeskip Upgrade

1). That was w/ DF and no PoF was played in that part and if it was he STILL couldn't beat Mard Geer

2). Yeah no that wasn't PoF at all and it wasn't his Base Form he just had to use LFDM cause he couldn't beat Max in base

It's really plain as day that his At Least needs to be removed not only that we ALL know that DS Gray would had beaten Base Natsu anyday and everyone agreed that DF and DS were comparable so that's still a no and his At Least needs to be removed
 
We use "at least" when there's a huge AP difference, like in this case.

To put it into perspective, preskip erza would me able to beat natsu/gray pretty easily. Bacchus is equal to erza, and get stomped by base Sting. And later base Natsu was stomping base sting.

So basically base natsu can stomp someone who can stomp someone who can beat 7 kiloton gray pretty easily.

That's more than enough for an "at least"
 
Captain Torch said:
We use "at least" when there's a huge AP difference, like in this case.

To put it into perspective, preskip erza would be able to beat Natsu/gray pretty easily. Bacchus is equal to erza, and get stomped by base Sting. And later base Natsu was stomping base sting.

So basically base Natsu can stomp someone who can stomp someone who can beat 7 kiloton gray pretty easily.

That's more than enough for an "at least"
Click to expand...
Base natsu was stomping dragon force sting*
 
Captain Torch said:
We use "at least" when there's a huge AP difference, like in this case.
To put it into perspective, preskip erza would me able to beat natsu/gray pretty easily. Bacchus is equal to erza, and get stomped by base Sting. And later base Natsu was stomping base sting.

So basically base natsu can stomp someone who can stomp someone who can beat 7 kiloton gray pretty easily.

That's more than enough for an "at least"
Click to expand...
No cause Bacchus also gotten stronger during the 7 years (Erza was even sweating saying that he would be a tough opponent and even when witnessing him during the race she still thought the same thing or was shocked by his display of power that she was compared it to 7 years ago) and Bacchus let his guard down tha one time hence how Sting was able to beat him (not only that but his drive to get Lector back SOMEHOW made him stronger). Again Base Natsu wouldnt be having an At Least thanks to Grays calc which was BARELY above baseline
 
You keep forgetting that Natsu could fodderize people who can fodderize preskip gray.

The fact that Gray had a 7-C calc preskip doesn't mean that natsu can't be far above it.
 
Also, FDKM natsu is listed as "at least 6-C" because he stomped jacob, who is 6-C.

And here natsu can stomp people who can stomp preskip gray
 
Captain Torch said:
You keep forgetting that Natsu could fodderize people who can fodderize preskip gray.
The fact that Gray had a 7-C calc preskip doesn't mean that natsu can't be far above it.
Click to expand...
Base GMG Natsu and Gray r comparable that we ALL know and they didnt get any stronger ONLY until the 2nd Origin and by fodderize u mean Max who could be a bit far above Pre Timeskip Natsu (hence overpowering) and we Natsu gotten stronger then that but by how much we dont know but then again thanks to Gray calc that would be impossible to be At Least
 
GMG Natsu is post 2nd origin natsu though

EDIT: Also, it doesn't really matter if the result is baseline or not. "At least" implies that the character is quite higher than the result he is on, so an "at least" would mean that he's quite above 7 kilotons, which is the case
 
Then he wouldnt need to At Least then cause u need to be 5.8 Kilotons to 100 Kilotons in the 7-C range so again he would still be 7-C. Also everything after the GMG, he had to transform in order to take on a powerful opponent which im sure u missed what i wrote above when talking to @Demon and the powerscaling with Mard Geer
 
Once again, "at least" simply means that he's unquantifiably higher than the number he is. An "at least" in this case would mean that he's far above 5 kilotons, which is true. An "at least" doesn't necessarily mean that he is on another tier
 
Yur misunderstanding what im saying (or its just my fault cause im dumb lol) but that is an assumption right there. How do we know that he's far above 7.32 KT? for all we know Max could be a but higher and still overpower Base Natsu (you can be in the same tier and still 1 shot/overpower that person) though again thanks to Gray calc, 2nd Origin Base Natsu could be like 15KT - 20KT and we all know that
 
The key word "you can be still in the same tier"

Sure, you can be still 7-C if you one shot someone, but an "at least" is usually given in this case. Just like with Natsu's FDKM mode one shotting jacob and getting a "At least 6-C".

Same is here, but the difference between them is far more drastic.

Look:

Base natsu low diffed dragon force sting and rogue, Dragon Force boosts a person to a whole other level as we know, at the same time BASE Sting one shotted Bacchus. You're saying it was PoF Sting, but even so, he should be at most = his Dragon Force.

The same Bacchus was overpowering Elfman, and elfman can stomp max, who is = preskip natsu, a.k.a 7 kilotons.

Natsu being able to fodderize a character who can fodderize a 7 kiloton characater is enough for getting "at least". Characters sometimes get an "at least" just via being "higher" than someone else, so in this case it should be a definite.
 
@BlackeJan We don't Second Origin Multiply but we could calculate it especially for Natsu Dragneel

Dragon Force was stated to have *3 multiply and since he was fighting against 2 that would time 6. Sting Eucliffe and Rogue Cheney also used Unison Raid while in Dragon Force against Natsu Dragneel.

Unison Raid seems to double or triple (since Lucy and Juvia won despite being near defeat) magic. And, Natsu Dragneel overpowers it. So, Second Origin Multiply would up *12 or *18 Attack Potency well above a baseline level of Town Level.

Unison Raid Link:

 
Captain Torch said:
The key word "you can be still in the same tier"
Sure, you can be still 7-C if you one shot someone, but an "at least" is usually given in this case. Just like with Natsu's FDKM mode one shotting jacob and getting a "At least 6-C".

Same is here, but the difference between them is far more drastic.

Look:

Base natsu low diffed dragon force sting and rogue, Dragon Force boosts a person to a whole other level as we know, at the same time BASE Sting one shotted Bacchus. You're saying it was PoF Sting, but even so, he should be at most = his Dragon Force.

The same Bacchus was overpowering Elfman, and elfman can stomp max, who is = preskip natsu, a.k.a 7 kilotons.

Natsu being able to fodderize a character who can fodderize a 7 kiloton characater is enough for getting "at least". Characters sometimes get an "at least" just via being "higher" than someone else, so in this case it should be a definite.
Click to expand...
Well i wont lie it really depends on the Base form since DF is nothing more then a mutiplier but again Base Sting got the drop on Bacchus who wasnt paying attention/guard down also no Max > Preskip Natsu (7.32 KT) though by what you said about Base Sting 1 shotting Bacchus then that would mean that Base Sting => Erza since she was in awe of his powers during the race and we ALL know that Erza > Base Natsu (though AGAIN he only was able to 1 shott Bacchus b/c he wasnt paying attention and that was the only way he could even beat him)
 
I tried to leave as many of the Images you had as possible, most of them are still there in some fashion, such as either another key, or in a gallery, I added x791 forms for most characters, and I try to keep as many as possible
 
I have a question concerning the Low 7-C characters... Why are they there again? The Low 7-C calcs previously belonged to Erza, but isn't relevant anymore, so I don't really get why they are scaled to that tier
 
Low 7-C characters backscale from the pre-Timeskip characters because they are Baseline, for example Levy, Cana, Lisanna, and Lucy's Weaker spirits
 
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