Marvel Comics - Thor Shaking the Realms of the World Tree

[Antvasima]

It’s worth noting that if we consider the Marvel Universe to be infinite in size (which is probably stated hundreds of times) then all the universe-shaking feats (Thor hitting Galactus hard enough to shake the universe and doing the same with his Thermo-Blast, Hercules’ statement, Beta Ray Bill shaking the universe in his fight with Stardust, baby Thor’s feat, ect) would end up being High 3-A supporting feats.

Though of course I agree we shouldn’t get out hand with scaling, several characters are unreliable to scale from for the most part due to either holding back on most opponents or having Variable power levels.

It was also recently established in a Dan Slott Fantastic Four story that the Marvel universe is comparatively small due to actions by The Watchers and The Reckoning billions of years ago, and its size was increased tenfold in the end.

Anyway, the point is that different writers have displayed different ideas in this regard, so it seems very uncertain to hand out High 3-A tiers left and right.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

It was also recently established in a Dan Slott Fantastic Four story that the Marvel universe is comparatively small due to actions by The Watchers and The Reckoning billions of years ago, and its size was increased tenfold in the end.

Anyway, the point is that different writers have displayed different ideas in this regard, so it seems very uncertain to hand out High 3-A tiers left and right.

Couldn't we just rate the feats in accordance to how each Era/writer defines the universe's size then? Cosmology splits are often cited as the best way to resolve discrepancies between writers.

Thor's feat against Galactus for example was done 50+ years prior to when that retcon was established, so interpreting the universe as it was described back then seems like a more way reliable to qualify his feat.

 

[Antvasima]

Possibly, yes, and Confluctor told me that Impress had an accepted revision project for separating Marvel cosmology to before and after Reed Richards recreated the Marvel multiverse with the Ultimate Nullifier, as that was roughly when the big breaking point in how it has been treated happened, so that seems like what we can realistically currently do in that regard.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

That's a good point. It does seem like there are some potentially massive ramifications that would best be discussed in a different thread on cosmological revisions. As far as Thor goes, should we just wait on sourcing for the 2-C supporting feats and then discuss the validity of adding them as justification to his current overexertion rating?

 

[ObberGobb]

How many are even left? A lot of already been decided to be unusable.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

I don't have scans for all of them, but so far the ones that haven't been rejected include the following. Some of them are slightly lower than 2-C, some are higher, but we could go with what was mentioned earlier with a 2-A at absolute peak.
--Odin stating that Thor and BRB fighting could destroy Asgard (might be 3-A)
--Hyperion surviving a 2-C incursion
--Baby Thor shaking the multiversal Yggdrasill and all of its realms (High 3-A?)
--Thor kills the higher than 2-A Demogorge
--Shakes the Nine Realms again with the Blood Colossus (High 3-A?)
--Matches Destroyer Odin (2-A)
--Defeats Glory, who possessed the strength of all of Asgard + Odin (2-A)
--Tanks attacks from Arishem, but is overwhelmed (2-A)
--Caused Surtur to cry out in pain (2-A)
--Shattered the root of Yggdrasill (2-A)
--Briefly knocked out Phoenix Force, although weaker than it (2-A)

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Hyperion surviving two universes colliding, and the Hulk destroying some kind of mystical universe might be usable, but matching far more powerful enemies seems much more unreliable, given how Marvel fights usually work.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

To be fair, we do already have him at 2-A for the Godblast. It isn't too much of a stretch to say that his absolute limits are close to those of his strongest attack.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe, but the feats need to be reliable, not dependent on extremely inconsistent powerscaling alone.

 

[Eseseso]

bump

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

--Odin stating that Thor and BRB fighting could destroy Asgard (might be 3-A)
--Hyperion surviving a 2-C incursion
--Baby Thor shaking the multiversal Yggdrasill and all of its realms (High 3-A?)
--Thor kills the higher than 2-A Demogorge
--Shakes the Nine Realms again with the Blood Colossus (High 3-A?)
--Matches Destroyer Odin (2-A)
--Defeats Glory, who possessed the strength of all of Asgard + Odin (2-A)
--Tanks attacks from Arishem, but is overwhelmed (2-A)
--Caused Surtur to cry out in pain (2-A)
--Shattered the root of Yggdrasill (2-A)
--Briefly knocked out Phoenix Force, although weaker than it (2-A)

I'm a tad bit iffy on the Demogorge feat, but the others are fine to me

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Hyperion surviving two universes colliding, and the Hulk destroying some kind of mystical universe might be usable, but matching far more powerful enemies seems much more unreliable, given how Marvel fights usually work.

Maybe, but the feats need to be reliable, not dependent on extremely inconsistent powerscaling alone.

Well, as I mentioned earlier, this is my general take on this issue.

Which other raw power feats do we have available, and how should we describe, for example, Hyperion's variable power levels within our wiki? Simply "3-C normally, 2-C at his peak"?

 

[LordTracer]

Simply "3-C normally, 2-C at his peak"?

That seems like the best way to do it imo

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, and should we rate the Hulk as Low 2-C at his peak, or consider this feat as a poorly defined outlier, given that the Dark-Crawler was otherwise nowhere near that powerful and the Hulk was not even particularly angry?

Also, do we have any other useful direct feats of this scale available for regular superheroes?

 

[Eseseso]

Well, as I mentioned earlier, this is my general take on this issue.

Which other raw power feats do we have available, and how should we describe, for example, Hyperion's variable power levels within our wiki? Simply "3-C normally, 2-C at his peak"?

With all the 2-A feats listed above, maybe he could be "3-C normally, 2-C to 2-A at his peak"?

 

[Antvasima]

That would be derived from Marvel's unreliable everybody can fight everybody powerscaling, and we have to watch out a lot for that, so we should preferably only use the characters' own feats in this regard.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

--Baby Thor shaking the multiversal Yggdrasill and all of its realms (High 3-A?)

--Shakes the Nine Realms again with the Blood Colossus (High 3-A?)

One question: isn't shaking the Nine Realms 2-C, not High 3-A?

 

[Antvasima]

Not if it is only spatial shaking of the entirety of the physical universes. Then it it is only Low Multiversal range and tier 3-B to High 3-A power as far as I am aware.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Not if it is only spatial shaking of the entirety of the physical universes. Then it it is only Low Multiversal range and tier 3-B to High 3-A power as far as I am aware.

...huh. I don't remember that, but alright

 

[Antvasima]

Well, then it would just an additive effect I think, much like a minor earthquake, but affecting several universes via some kind of reality nexus effect.

 

[Eseseso]

How about "2-A when overexerting himself"?

Just replace the current 2-C overexertion part with his 2-A key and make 3-C to 2-C his norm.

 

[Antvasima]

No, sorry. He does not have actual feat of his own of this scale. I like the character myself, but reliability is most important.

 

[Eseseso]

No, sorry. He does not have actual feat of his own of this scale. I like the character myself, but reliability is most important.

I don't have scans for all of them, but so far the ones that haven't been rejected include the following. Some of them are slightly lower than 2-C, some are higher, but we could go with what was mentioned earlier with a 2-A at absolute peak.
--Odin stating that Thor and BRB fighting could destroy Asgard (might be 3-A)
--Hyperion surviving a 2-C incursion
--Baby Thor shaking the multiversal Yggdrasill and all of its realms (High 3-A?)
--Thor kills the higher than 2-A Demogorge
--Shakes the Nine Realms again with the Blood Colossus (High 3-A?)
--Matches Destroyer Odin (2-A)
--Defeats Glory, who possessed the strength of all of Asgard + Odin (2-A)
--Tanks attacks from Arishem, but is overwhelmed (2-A)
--Caused Surtur to cry out in pain (2-A)
--Shattered the root of Yggdrasill (2-A)
--Briefly knocked out Phoenix Force, although weaker than it (2-A)

 

[KingTempest]

He doesn't want scaling to people who affected the multiverse, he wants Thor to affect the multiverse

Shattering the root of Yggdrasill is a feat tho

 

[Antvasima]

He doesn't want scaling to people who affected the multiverse, he wants Thor to affect the multiverse

Yes, exactly. Otherwise we would have to make Thor and an awful lot of much weaker Marvel character 1-A via chain-scaling.

Shattering the root of Yggdrasill is a feat tho

Yes, it is, but Yggdrasill is usually considered as a 2-C structure, not 2-A. We can definitely use it as a backup justification for Thor's current tier though.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, and should we rate the Hulk as Low 2-C at his peak, or consider this feat as a poorly defined outlier, given that the Dark-Crawler was otherwise nowhere near that powerful and the Hulk was not even particularly angry?

Also, do we have any other useful direct feats of this scale available for regular superheroes?

I’m fairly certain that Hulk has feats higher than Low 2-C at his peak. Iirc, in Heart of the Monster, he and Red She-Hulk were destroying the Dark Dimension, which is a 2-A to Low 1-C realm.

 

[Eseseso]

I’m fairly certain that Hulk has feats higher than Low 2-C at his peak. Iirc, in Heart of the Monster, he and Red She-Hulk were destroying the Dark Dimension, which is a 2-A to Low 1-C realm.

It's usually Low 1-C, as it has more dimensions than the Marvel Universe's 6.

 

[LordTracer]

It's usually Low 1-C, as it has more dimensions than the Marvel Universe's 6.

It doesn’t vary, it’s just 2-A, possibly Low 1-C.

 

[Eseseso]

It doesn’t vary, it’s just 2-A, possibly Low 1-C.

Dormammu varys, the Dark Dimension is part of his Low 1-C justification.

 

[Antvasima]

Hulk and Red She-Hulk didn't destroy the entire dimension though, just the local planet, and that feat was calculated as High 5-A long ago. Let's not get carried away completely here please.

 

[LordTracer]

Hulk and Red She-Hulk didn't destroy the entire dimension though, just the local planet, and that feat was calculated as High 5-A long ago. Let's not get carried away completely here please.

Umar said they were destroying the realm.

 

[LordTracer]

I’m not even advocating for Hulk to be 2-A/Low 1-C at his peak, I’m just saying that Low 2-C is a gross underestimation.

 

[Antvasima]

All that we were shown was the destruction of a planet, not remotely the entire space-time structure, and they were definitely causing destruction to a part of the realm, so again, let's try to not get out of hand here, but rather act as buffers against very unreliable hyperbole as we are supposed to as staff. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Antvasima]

I’m not even advocating for Hulk to be 2-A/Low 1-C at his peak, I’m just saying that Low 2-C is a gross underestimation.

Well, we do not have any higher explicit feats from Hulk than clapping his hands to destroy what was likely a small pocket universe while fighting the Dark-Crawler, and causing an earthquake in planets across the multiverse together with Ironclad while fighting in the Crossroads nexus of reality though, and both of them involved quite weak adversaries withstanding his attacks, and no peak rage whatsoever, so they seem unreliable.

My apologies. I do not mind upgrading Hulk to Thor's level in itself, but we need something very reliable to scale from.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I mean, we do have the dark dimension thing, but was hulk at his peak in that feat?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but the feat was calculated as High 5-A.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Yes, but the feat was calculated as High 5-A.

Hulk tearing the dark dimension Is High 5-A?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Hulk tearing the dark dimension Is High 5-A?

Hulk and Red She-Hulk were showing destroying a planet. That feat was High 5-A

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Hulk and Red She-Hulk were showing destroying a planet. That feat was High 5-A

I am not referring to the Red She-Hulk fight, i am referring to this

• Hulk shattering the dark dimension

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I am not referring to the Red She-Hulk fight, i am referring to this

Well that one I'm not so sure about