Marvel Comics - Thor Shaking the Realms of the World Tree

[NaturalDestroyer]

Knocks out the Phoenix Force

Shaking the universe is only 4-A.

We can count that one out then

 

[Antvasima]

Please remember that we should not upgrade Thor or other Marvel characters from fighting against other characters that should be far beyond their weight classes, as we could easily rate even the weakest Marvel Comics characters as 1-A via chain-scaling due to the everybody can fight everybody nature of the verse. We can only use their own feats that are very self-evident and not just single scans that are taken out of context from their greater storylines.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

I agree, and that's definitely not my goal. I just think we have an opportunity here to collect supporting feats for Thor's current "2-C while exerting himself" rating, or something similar

 

[ObberGobb]

If we find enough 2-C/2-A feats for Thor and friends to warrant an upgrade, I think that scaling to Hell Lords and Skyfathers would be reasonable as supporting evidence. That being said, in my opinion, I don't think we have found enough to warrant an upgrade.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree, and that's definitely not my goal. I just think we have an opportunity here to collect supporting feats for Thor's current "2-C while exerting himself" rating, or something similar

Thank you for being reasonable.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Of course. Mods on this site have to deal with enough as it is

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the consideration as well.

 

[Hasty12345]

How many feats does Thor and those who scale to him need before it becomes consistent and not “everybody fights everybody”?

And isn’t the 3-C rating based on a recall of a previously calced 4-A feat (I could be wrong on that, that thread was a long time ago)? Like from my currently limited perspective, it almost sounds like 3-A or higher is more consistent for Thor than 3-C is (which iirc should really be a high 3-A feat but we conveniently ignore the fact the Marvel universes are likely infinite).

 

[Eseseso]

DID SOMEONE SAY TIER 2 THOR FEATS?

Credit to @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer for these:

Shattered the root of Yggdrasil and laid waste to Jotunheim. Damaged Galactus. Harmed Odin. Rent the heavens asunder in his battle against the Odin Destroyer and held his own. Harmed Glory by summoning the winds of a thousand worlds. Harmed Skyfather Hercules. Fought against Surtur. Briefly knocked out Mangog. Briefly knocked out the Phoenix Force, though far weaker than it

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Thor shakes the Fabric of infinity



At this point we have around we have 5 2-C
Feats and 2-3 Low 2-C supporting feats

The 3-C came from 4 feats, a bunch of vague statements and some 4-A stuff

 

[ObberGobb]

How many of those feats are direct (by which I mean don't involving scaling to 2-C characters)?

 

[Hasty12345]

Does Thor have a Superman-esk “always holding back”/“mental block” type mechanic or a “willpower power amp” type mechanic?

 

[Antvasima]

How many feats does Thor and those who scale to him need before it becomes consistent and not “everybody fights everybody”?

It isn't like the fundamental storytelling structure of the verse suddenly disappears, so scaling would need to be based on great cknsistency in my view, such as scaling the Hulk from Thor to a degree. However, it is an imperfect science so to speak, and we have to use common sense sometkmes in lack of better options.

And isn’t the 3-C rating based on a recall of a previously calced 4-A feat (I could be wrong on that, that thread was a long time ago)? Like from my currently limited perspective, it almost sounds like 3-A or higher is more consistent for Thor than 3-C is (which iirc should really be a high 3-A feat but we conveniently ignore the fact the Marvel universes are likely infinite).

It is extremely uncommon for any herald-level characters to reliably have actual feats of anywhere near such a high order, rather than just suddenly fight tier Low 1-A characters out of nowhere, for example. So we need to try to find some sort of balance in that regard. Otherwise there is a far greater amount of tier 9 or 8 anti-feats as well.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

We do have multiple scans of statements on his profile of him holding back almost all the time, and Hulk vs Thor just gave us another one

 

[KLOL506]

How many feats does Thor and those who scale to him need before it becomes consistent and not “everybody fights everybody”?

And isn’t the 3-C rating based on a recall of a previously calced 4-A feat (I could be wrong on that, that thread was a long time ago)? Like from my currently limited perspective, it almost sounds like 3-A or higher is more consistent for Thor than 3-C is (which iirc should really be a high 3-A feat but we conveniently ignore the fact the Marvel universes are likely infinite).

I am of the personal opinion that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE SHOULD SCALE TO THOR, HULK, NORRIN, SENTRY AND OTHER TOP-TIER HERALDS UNLESS THEY'RE SERIOUS AND NO LONGER HOLDING BACK, PERIOD. Even for the Tier 3 shit. I just think the whole "X tier when holding back" is garbage, just scale those lower rung people to their own feats people. Not that hard. I am willing to die on that hill with this belief.

 

[Hasty12345]

It isn't like the fundamental storytelling structure of the verse suddenly disappears, so scaling would need to be based on great cknsistency in my view, such as scaling the Hulk from Thor to a degree. However, it is an imperfect science so to speak, and we have to use common sense sometkmes in lack of better options.

It is extremely uncommon for any herald-level characters to reliably have actual feats of such a high order, rather than just suddenly fight tier Low 1-A characters out of nowhere, for example.

What is “Herald level”? This seems like some ridiculously limiting terminology used to ignore feats and restrict characters to certain tiers to force an incoherent inconsistency.

Thor is clearly above 3-C, and if he remains 3-C then some tier 2 characters seemingly need a downgrade.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Here two weaker versions of Thor clash and shake every plane of reality

I mean, this could also be a 2-C feat, considering yggdrasil exists on every plane of reality too

 

[LordTracer]

I hope y’all realize that every feat you bring up needs to be sourced to even be considered.

 

[Hasty12345]

I am of the personal opinion that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE SHOULD SCALE TO THOR, HULK, NORRIN, SENTRY AND OTHER TOP-TIER HERALDS UNLESS THEY'RE SERIOUS AND NO LONGER HOLDING BACK, PERIOD. Even for the Tier 3 shit. I just think the whole "X tier when holding back" is garbage, just scale those lower rung people to their own feats people. Not that hard. I am willing to die on that hill with this belief.

If Thor has tier 2 feats in his solo comic run, then he should scale to his own feats done in his own story. Crossover/team up comics are far more likely to have “everyone fights everyone because big climax” fights than solo runs IMO

 

[Antvasima]

Thor shakes the Fabric of infinity

At this point we have around we have 5 2-C
Feats and 2-3 Low 2-C supporting feats

The 3-C came from 4 feats, a bunch of vague statements and some 4-A stuff

Are all of the tier 2 feats explicit/reliable? Can you list them please? I would personally prefer if we do not get carried away in that regard, and try to remember that Marvel may be the most inconsistent verse ever created, and one of the most incoherent, so we cannot scale hundreds of characters to the highest outliers possible from over 80 years of history in tends of thousands of comic book stories.

 

[Eseseso]

I am of the personal opinion that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE SHOULD SCALE TO THOR, HULK, NORRIN, SENTRY AND OTHER TOP-TIER HERALDS UNLESS THEY'RE SERIOUS AND NO LONGER HOLDING BACK, PERIOD. Even for the Tier 3 shit. I just think the whole "X tier when holding back" is garbage, just scale those lower rung people to their own feats people. Not that hard. I am willing to die on that hill with this belief.

Agreed!

At least some 3-c people like Doom (with low-tier prep) have things to back it up (like his 3-C prep stuff being literally confirmed to equal Silver Surfer).

Maybe the best route would be to follow what Eseseso said and build up a case for 2-C Thor

Oh my god people are actually listening to my ideas.
I don't know how to react this is so new.

I hope y’all realize that every feat you bring up needs to be sourced to even be considered.

I'll talk with @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer about that.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, I love how this CRT began with a Baby Thor feat and is now turning into a huge Marvel upgrade CRT.

 

[Antvasima]

What is “Herald level”? This seems like some ridiculously limiting terminology used to ignore feats and restrict characters to certain tiers to force an incoherent inconsistency.

Thor is clearly above 3-C, and if he remains 3-C then some tier 2 characters seemingly need a downgrade.

Actually, he is currently listed as tier 2-C at his absolute peak, with a tier 2-A god-blast, unless I misremember.

 

[Hasty12345]

Are all of the tier 2 feats explicit/reliable? Can you list them please? I would personally prefer if we do not get carried away in that regard, and try to remember that Marvel may be the most inconsistent verse ever created, and one of the most incoherent, so we cannot scale hundreds of characters to the highest outliers possible from over 80 years of history in tends of thousands of comic book stories.

In your rough estimation, how many of these outliers come from massive team up events as opposed to solo character stories and runs? Just a guesstimate

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah that "2-C when overstressed" feat is FAR from his only 2-C feat.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, I love how this CRT began with a Baby Thor feat and is now turning into a huge Marvel upgrade CRT.

Well, we would have to limit it to characters with actual explicit reliable feats of this level, not just powerscaling, and handle their inconsistent statistics in a similar manner to Thor in that case.

 

[Hasty12345]

Also, I love how this CRT began with a Baby Thor feat and is now turning into a huge Marvel upgrade CRT.

It most definitely is not a huge marvel CRT it’s a CRT looking at the validity of tier 2 Thor.

 

[Antvasima]

In your rough estimation, how many of these outliers come from massive team up events as opposed to solo character stories and runs? Just a guesstimate

I haven't thought about this particular issue. Sorry. Why do you ask?

 

[Hasty12345]

I dare say if tier 2 Thor is legit, you’re not gonna scale anyone to him whilst at that level.

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah that "2-C when overstressed" feat is FAR from his only 2-C feat.

It most definitely is not a huge marvel CRT it’s a CRT looking at the validity of tier 2 Thor.

Adding further justifications for his current 2-C tier is fine, but we need to keep 3-C as well, in order to not mess up the scaling to other characters from him and rationalise the extreme Marvel inconsistencies somehow.

 

[Antvasima]

I dare say if tier 2 Thor is legit, you’re not gonna scale anyone to him whilst at that level.

That is my intended point above, yes.

 

[Hasty12345]

I haven't thought about this particular issue. Sorry. Why do you ask?

Because I think feats performed in character driven story arcs >>>>> team up cosmic battles where everyone fights everyone.

im definitely no expert but it wouldn’t surprise me if in Avengers comics you have Iron Man and Thor both hurting characters normally Thor probably is only consistently at said characters level (if that).

 

[Eseseso]

I dare say if tier 2 Thor is legit, you’re not gonna scale anyone to him whilst at that level.

Yeah but people were talking about Hulk and SS having universe-lvl feats.

Adding further justifications for his current 2-C tier is fine, but we need to keep 3-C as well, in order to not mess up the scaling to other characters from him and rationalise the extreme Marvel inconsistencies somehow.

Agreed

 

[Antvasima]

Because I think feats performed in character driven story arcs >>>>> team up cosmic battles where everyone fights everyone.

im definitely no expert but it wouldn’t surprise me if in Avengers comics you have Iron Man and Thor both hurting characters normally Thor probably is only consistently at said characters level (if that).

It happens more often in cosmic storylines and while switching between different authors, yes, but nowadays the writers largely just don't seem to care at all about almost any storytelling logic whatsoever. Al Ewing had Black Panther beat up an entity that defeated The Living Tribunal and do better against the Hulk than skyfather Thor; whereas Jason Aaron had the Jane Foster "Thor" have more trouble with fighting the Silver Samurai than she had with Odin, among plenty of other examples.

 

[KLOL506]

If Thor has tier 2 feats in his solo comic run, then he should scale to his own feats done in his own story. Crossover/team up comics are far more likely to have “everyone fights everyone because big climax” fights than solo runs IMO

That's not good enough reasoning to then scale everyone to each other. There could be massive amounts of underlying context we could be ignoring, whether they were holding back or not, or whether they had their power levels borked or some stuff or they used sneak tactics, etc.

 

[Antvasima]

That's not good enough reasoning to then scale everyone to each other. There could be massive amounts of underlying context we could be ignoring, whether they were holding back or not, or whether they had their power levels borked or some stuff or they used sneak tactics, etc.

Yes, that as well.

 

[Hasty12345]

That's not good enough reasoning to then scale everyone to each other. There could be massive amounts of underlying context we could be ignoring, whether they were holding back or not, or whether they had their power levels borked or some stuff or they used sneak tactics, etc.

I’m not sure if I was clear, but I’m advocating for the opposite, I don’t think everyone should scale to everyone.

 

[Hasty12345]

It happens more often in cosmic storylines and while switching between different authors, yes, but nowadays the writers largely just don't seem to care at all about almost any storytelling logic whatsoever. Al Ewing had Black Panther beat up an entity that defeated The Living Tribunal and do better against the Hulk than skyfather Thor; whereas Jason Aaron had the Jane Foster "Thor" have more trouble with fighting the Silver Samurai than she had with Odin, among plenty of other examples.

I can see how scaling in comics is pretty much a joke, hence why I think actual feats of characters should be far more important, and justifying scaling between characters needs to require a really strong argument to do so.
It’s really hard for me to come up with examples as I’m not an avid reader of comics, but bear with me for a moment.

If Jane has a 4-A feat for example, and let’s say Silver Surfer is low 2-C and Odin is 2-A or whatever and then Spider-Man is 8-C, the tiers aren’t important.

then we have Jane perform her feat, then lose to Spider-Man, then beat Odin then lose to SS.

im far more likely to believe that the author intended Jane to be a 4-A level character then her scaling to any of the characters she fought. Likewise, if Thor has consistent tier 2 feats, I’m far more likely to believe the authors at marvel consider him at that level then whatever story induced fight he partakes in being valid scaling. It’s far more believable to me that these characters he fights are around his tier for the sake of story - especially if it’s HIS story- than scaling everyone to Thor or Thor to everyone (which would likely make his tier 2 feats outliers).

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

That makes sense to me. This thread is definitely no longer what I intended, but I'm enjoying this.

 

[Hasty12345]

That makes sense to me. This thread is definitely no longer what I intended, but I'm enjoying this.

I do understand comics often make it hard to have a consistent view of a characters power, but there’s gotta be a better way of scaling comic characters than what we’re doing. I do think it’s a discussion worth having.