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Possible Downgrade on One Piece Speed

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Muuuuh

Muuuuh

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As I said before, it is more of a doubt than a complete argument.

I realized this by rereading the previous One Piece arcs.

The verse speed is based on a calculation of Marco's feat, which puts him in Relativist, but has as a starting point to consider Kizaru's attacks as LS.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Calaca/One_Piece_Calcs_Mashup

That's my question, if the attack is LS, why does the light emitted by the same attack arrive before the attack itself? They should arrive at the same time since both, in theory, have the speed of light, no?

20160701230216642
The shadow was projected by the attack as we see previous images of White Beard with the shadow just below the body in the same chapter.

20160701230204989
This type of situation is also seen in Yata no Kagami by Borsalino, which is considered LS.

20160701220940620
 
I think I see your point.

My main concern is that the calc is dependent on the assumption that Marco did not start moving until the lasers were 84.56 m away from Whitebeard. Except we don't see when Marco started moving. If Marco started moving in there before the lasers were even fired, then the whole calc doesn't work.
 
I think that this is just a case of plot convenience, similarly to how characters moving FTL can still almost always see each other during a fight. Kizaru has explicitly been stated to move at the speed of light. No downgrades seem necessary.
 
Kizaru who said that, and it could just be a way of speaking, like Sena in Eyeshield 21 who called herself LS. I think the low point of believing in this LS is that the characters much weaker than Kizaru, managed to react to Yata no Kagami before Kizaru hit them.
 
I don't fully agree with Muuuuh's argument since for the Yata no Kagami at least Kizaru clearly releases a beam of light to highlight his path among reflective surfaces that he himself follows at lightspeed.

But for my own point, I think it is valid to look at the calc in a more criticial light.
 
First of all, the calculation does not prove anything if the premise from which it starts is false, that is what I am debating here.

You don't have to call the argument ridiculous. We have several statements, all right. But every verse here needs more than statements to be accepted as LS. We need to see if the light behaves like real light, curves, etc. If Kizaru's light arrives after the real light obviously does not behave like real light and is slower than it.
 
Why would it need properties of light if it has already been cited to be the speed of light? This does not make any sense.
 
Do we need more evidence, just quotes? Okay, well, I'm going to create some topics for the upgrade of Yu Yu Hakusho and One Punch man to the planet level and Samurai X for FTL.
 
Yes, in that case just the quote is enough, since it is not a hyperbole.

Feel free to try to update the others, if it is correct, they will be added.
 
Also, another topic I did about BHA with a giant picture made by the creator of Noumus on the scale of power placing High End as the most powerful was not accepted because they needed proof beyond the quotes.

Really, VSBW guys need to reach consensus on how to deal with the verses, it looks like favoritism to those who see it from the outside.
 
USklaverei said:
Yes, in that case just the quote is enough, since it is not a hyperbole.

Feel free to try to update the others, if it is correct, they will be added.
Click to expand...

But who determines what is right and what is not? How do you prove it is right? Because I showed evidence that the attack is slower than real light and it was not enough.
 
No light from Kizaru was reflected in a mirror, they were window glass and they shouldn't even reflect that way, the light should pass from side to side.

Furthermore, only Kato's Yato does that, all the other kizaru moves act with a different physique. The main speed calculation on the back does not use Yata no Kagami, so this argument is meaningless.
 
USklaverei said:
You're using an argument that is honestly ridiculous, it's like I want to nerf Goku by being able to speak while fighting at Massively FTL + speeds.
Click to expand...
Your comparison is ridiculous.

Your LS attack being slower than the light of the attack itself is sufficient evidence.

There is no proof beyond the situations, however there are arguments to the contrary.
 
Muuuuh said:
Your comparison is ridiculous.

Your LS attack being slower than the light of the attack itself is sufficient evidence.

There is no proof beyond the situations, however there are arguments to the contrary.
Click to expand...
And being able to speak at Massively FTL + speeds is not something?
 
@Antvasima; dealing with Muuuuh's issues with the calc is only half the topic of the thread. I don't think my point about the calc has been answered.
 
The OP is doing serious reaching, Kizaru's light is reflective as seen by his Yata Mirror, produces high heats, doesn't curve or bend, produces massive amounts of luminosity and has several statements to back his stuff up. Don't act like it's not a single statement and that's what we went by, no there are dozens of examples of it being legitimate. Hell even his Devil Fruit is apart of nature, all Logia's follow nature, the name even translates to the sound of nature or nature system.
 
I strongly agree with Gin.

What was your issue Damage?
 
Damage3245 said:
I think I see your point.
My main concern is that the calc is dependent on the assumption that Marco did not start moving until the lasers were 84.56 m away from Whitebeard. Except we don't see when Marco started moving. If Marco started moving in there before the lasers were even fired, then the whole calc doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Quoted.

The only thing we can actually see in the feat is that Marco intercepted the attack - but we have no idea what distance Marco actually travelled or when he started moving. Two very crucial pieces of information for determining his speed.
 
Aren't there other feats of intercepting Kizaru as well?
 
> That's my question, if the attack is LS, why does the light emitted by the same attack arrive before the attack itself?

Are you serious about this argument? Like, really?
 
I just want to know if that's a serious argument because I have my own argument to debunk
 
Antvasima said:
Aren't there other feats of intercepting Kizaru as well?
Click to expand...
The only one that comes to mind is Rayleigh intercepting Kizaru, which is also a debatable feat since Rayleigh could have began moving before Kizaru broke into light particles.
 
I don't even think it matters. If Kizaru at any point is moving at light, and the he gets intercepted, yet the character who's intercepting him wasn't previously already on panel then by default they would of had to cross the oanel's pov to enter frame anyway if he's moving at lightspeed. Which would ultimately result in being a fraction of sol the only difference being how much, but it'd still be subrel to rel regardless.
 
I disagree with this downgrade. For the most part, Kizaru's attacks usually always emit light from them before firing off. I know that the Anime isn't canon, but the anime always depicts them like this. The light isn't reaching WB before the attack.
 
The OP's argument can just be easily dismissed by the fact that Kizaru turned into the bright light star thing before he actually fired those light beams, so it's not wonder shadows were produced before Kizaru's attack hit Marco.

I agree with Damage though on the Marco thing.
 
I don't think people actually understand how Kizaru's powers work, he doesn't just instantly transform into photons and is suddenly moving at light speed, he breaks parts of himself off into photons until his entire body is like that. Given that you can literally still see Kizaru's actual body in the Whitebeard calc, it stands to reason that Kizaru's body (what Whitebeard hit) wasn't actually moving at lightspeed yet and that Whitebeard attacking Kizaru's main body forced him to stop transforming into light to move and instead to evade Whitebeard's attack.
 
Damage3245 said:
@DarkDragonMedeus; that's fine, my points have nothing to do with the OP's claims.
Click to expand...


Anyway we should wait for the forum move before tackling another CRT and i have a few in mind for myself. This should be preferably closed.
 
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