Possible changes to the Bakugan universe (composite profiles & certain upgrades)

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You guys could look through the other Bakugan discussion threads. Theres much more discussion about this there.

I think I can recall some instances of time being effected by the 2 worlds merging but I can't be too sure. When I have time I'll have to check to be sure. However wouldn't manipulating the universe itself and fixing the positions of 2 totally separate universes from merging bbe low 2-C?

 

[Antvasima]

Probably, yes.

 

[Dragontime]

Before I make any arguments regarding anything else, my query remains unanswered. The Silent Orb's size in relation to the Silent Core. The Silent Orb had just been created, which means that the size it was portrayed at was its base. Just like similar triangles, where every side and the area is determined by proportions, I'd like to believe that the Silent Orb functions under similar mechanics, as it is identical in every way except size to the Silent Core. The Silent Orb is at least 1 foot wide (not 1 metre as previously mentioned), and the Silent Core would be at least 30 feet wide via keeping Naga within it. I'm not able to pixel scale, so I'll try to find a picture of the Silent Core next to something we can scale from. I know the wiki doesn't function under assumptions, but this is probably my best bet on placing a baseline power level for any Bakugan that scales to the Silent Orb:

Silent Orb's volume: approx. 0.52 cubic feet

Silent Core's volume: approx. 14,137 cubic feet

Number of times Silent Orb would fit in Silent Core: 27186.53 times.

How much power would the Silent Orb possess: 1/27186.53 of the power in the Silent Core. Silent Core grants a 3-A level of power, so this at the very minimum would likely be 3-C

I know this won't be accepted, but I tried.

NOW, real arguments:

Perfect Drago was explicitly stated to be the one keeping all of Vestroia together, therefore I'd presume he's also managing the space-time of the specified universe. 2-C, but stating that he's at least 3-A is on the safer side.


The Legendary Soldiers are nowhere near Tier 3 from what I know of the series. They were probably fighting against the Battle Brawlers under heavy PIS. In New Vestroia, the Legendary Soldiers combined were unable to face Assail FARBROS (King Zenoheld's Bakugan) and were utterly defeated while fighting at full power, FARBROS should be superior to Helios MK2 as the strongest of the Vexos Bakugan, placing him at 5-B at the very least. The Legendary Soldiers are only watching over the Perfect Core for imbalances and to inform Drago of problems. Exedra, the Darkus Guardian, is also stated by the narrative as possessing the most power of all the Guardians, and Apollonir is only the leader because of skills.


Neo Dragonoid is more powerful than Delta, right? After being captured by Spectra, some Forbidden Ability cards were used upon him. This allowed him to use some of the Perfect Core's power unhindered. Apollonir is then used by Dan to battle this "Vexos" Dragonoid. By turning into lance form, Dan then throws him into the diamond on Drago's chest, which is his permanent link to the Perfect Core, where Apollonir absorbs the excess energy, Note that the battle had already been going on for quite some time. What prevented Spectra, using the strongest Bakugan of all at that point in time, from beating Apollonir? Apollonir was defeated by Delta Dragonoid. Both these situations are extreme PIS.


Now here come the wild inconsistencies. The Alternative Weapon System was introduced in New Vestroia. Spectra, whom I would consider a reliable source of such statements, identifies the AWS as a creation capable of wiping out entire galaxies along with its living beings, which would mean a tier of 3-C. (right here:[http:// https://youtu.be/H7g59YD8b6k?t=19m38s https://youtu.be/H7g59YD8b6k?t=19m38s] ). This would also mean it needs to possess a durability somewhere near that level to fire off such attacks as it is not made of organic material. At the very least one of its attacks from a large cannon (it has multiple) should be planet level, as the AWS was going to destroy Earth and Vestal. From here we can justify a 5-B tier for Helix Dragonoid, as at this point Drago fires off an attack known as Galactic Dragon which effortlessly counters a beam from the large cannon, removing his unknown tier, for his full power form. Of note is the fact that Saint Nemus, had just used an ability to rejuvenate all the Bakugan present, or even amped their stats.


In the 2 final episodes of the Battle Brawlers vs the AWS, Helios MKII has a Zukanator strapped to his back, which is just a massive cannon that fires pure energy, when it out of nowhere just blasts a hole through the AWS, while all the Bakugan Brawlers have also been destroying various other parts of it. The Bakugan anime probably has the greatest amount of PIS I've ever seen. The jump from 5-B to 3-C is massive and even that's an understatement.

So,

Perfect Drago: At least 3-A, possibly 2-C

Helix Drago: At least 5-B

Legendary Soldiers: Possibly 5-B

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Dragontime Honestly though they fare well against King Zenohold until he unleash that system which I recall correctly that the system was designed to absorb the energy from the Bakugan themselves and consider how that goes, it will be noticable as well. Also I seriously doubt it will be heavy PIS since it was a test after all and have been holding them back on the Bakugan Brawlers themselves.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, 3-A divided by 27186.53 would be 3-B.

 

[Dragontime]

@Dragontime Honestly though they fare well against King Zenohold until he unleash that system which I recall correctly that the system was designed to absorb the energy from the Bakugan themselves and consider how that goes,

That system is actually separate from the AWS. The system you are mentioning is the BT System, which absorbed the energy of the Bakugan in order to turn all Bakugan in a 6000 kilometre radius into ball form. Drago evolved into Helix Dragonoid after absorbing the element energies from the BT System.

 

[Dragontime]

Well, 3-A divided by 27186.53 would be 3-B.

I was just lowballing it to the lowest possible point, but that doesn't mean I expect it to be accepted. Maybe I should wait for other opinions regarding this.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Dragontime It was explicitly been mentioned here from the Bakugan Wiki and to quote it: In Six Degrees of Destruction, King Zenoheld uses Farbros against the Six Ancient Soldiers, so as to acquire their Attribute Energies. At that time, Farbros was still incomplete, functioning at only 90% in terms of response time. However, it more than holds its own against all six for a time. Zenoheld later equips Farbros with the Assail system, allowing it to completely overwhelm all six of the Ancient Soldiers. Despite winning, its adversaries manage to escape, eluding Zenoheld.

Also they have data on all known bakugan as well. Then again you have a fair point there.

 

[Dragontime]

@Dragontime It was explicitly been mentioned here from the Bakugan Wiki and to quote it: In Six Degrees of Destruction, King Zenoheld uses Farbros against the Six Ancient Soldiers, so as to acquire their Attribute Energies. At that time, Farbros was still incomplete, functioning at only 90% in terms of response time.
Also they have data on all known bakugan as well. Then again you have a fair point there.

Oh, I'm sorry. I misread your reply as being about the AWS and not about Farbros. The Legendary Soldiers did escape, but they were on the verge of death. They then passed on their energies to the Battle Brawlers on New Vestroia.

Fair point, but that only proves that Farbros is even more superior to the Legendary Soldiers, as he was nearly matching them on his own, with only 90% of his power, which would make the Legendary Soldiers low 5-B.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Dragontime Alright

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

IIRC, the reason the Soldiers are tier 3 is because each of them have a part of the Perfect Core's power (or the Infinity core im not too sure so you could check the other bakugan threads where this is mentioned) and if thats true then they should be drastically higher than 5-B.

It's very likely that the Soldiers held back against the brawlers in Season 1 as we have never heard of the attribute energies til later in S2 which is the truest form of their power. It'd be weird for them to use it during the beginning of the series. And if they really did use the attribute energies against the brawlers, implying Delta Drago and the others at those points were strong enough to beat them, then why would the Soldiers give them to Drago and the other bakugan during S2 when Drago and the others in much weaker forms already beat that power? It would be pointless to give it to them and help them evolve even further when it was a power that was supposedly surpassed by the bakugans most weaker forms. In addition, the Vestals wouldnt even want the Soldiers powers if they were fodder to the beginning forms of the 6 Bakugan. Plus you have to remember they were testing the battle brawlers to see if they were worthy of saving Vestroia like they did. It wasnt exactly a "Surpass me and be the new hero kind of test. They just needed to prove they were strong enough to leave the Doom Dimension. So with all these points, it should be assumed that the Soldiers in S1 had downgraded forms and were not using their true power aka the Attribute Energies like in S2. And even if they were using their true power, we could chalk it up to PIS.

Finally, the Farbros argument shouldnt be used as the B.T.S. was specifically designed to absorb and ultilize the soldiers energies. It doesnt mean the Soldiers are any weaker we give them credit for, its just that the Vestals technology is that strong. And considering the Vestals could create technology that could threaten entire dimensions in the verse, that justifies it more.

 

[Dragontime]

@Professor.

Alright, I guess that's okay.

Do you have any further opinions regarding the Silent Orb and Leonidas's scaling as Omega Leonidas is currently ranked unknown?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Unfortunetly I have never played the Bakugan games so i'll leave that up to you to decide (for now anyway).

However I do have to ask. If manipulating the very fabric of the Universe means Low 2-C, then why is Naga only ranked 3-A? Im not saying he should be Low 2-C I just find it strange how we're using a justification, thats more fit for a Low 2-C character, for a 3-A character. So does Naga need to be upgraded or do we need to find another reason for his 3-A rating?

 

[Antvasima]

Does Naga manipulate universal space-time itself?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Ant I believe so.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wasn't Naga warping the very fabric of Vestroia just by separating the Infinity and Silent Cores? It started breaking down the 6 different attribute spaces and mixing them into each other through the Cores disturbance by itself.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Wasn't Naga warping the very fabric of Vestroia just by separating the Infinity and Silent Cores? It started breaking down the 6 different attribute spaces and mixing them into each other through the Cores disturbance by itself.

I was under the impression that Vestroia became six different Attribute Spaces when the two cores were seperated, and Naga was causing negative energy to flow throughout Vestroia and merge the realms together when he finally started to take control of the Silent Core.

Regardless, if it was just the Core's doing on it's own it should still apply to Naga, as he become one with it anyway. :/

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Gimmy That is incorrect as there were already six Attribute Spaces before it happened. I even posted the video that basically show this feat as it was virtually or completely been destroyed as the space and time barrier goes down.

 

[Antvasima]

So what conclusions have you reached about the statistics?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well I am not as well versed in Bakugan as I used to be but from what I've read it seems like Naga and Drago have a fraction of Low 2-C power. So I'd say High 3-A will be safe if not flat out low 2-C. At the very least 3-A

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but do their feats indicate that kind of scale?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Antvasima Yes as in Season 3, there were a two bakugan clashing against other that will destroy the universe or two universe in the process. Other than that, there might be more feats that might be consistent to that scale.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Overall yes. With the concepts introduced I would say so. However I would settle with 3-A as that for a fact is reasonable via feats. If the others have a way to concretely prove space-time destruction then higher ratings would be fine.

But I think that the fact that these characters power can cross space time and reach other universes could warrent Low 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose some upgrades are in order then.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'm fine with Naga being either Low 2-C or 3-A I just think the REASONING we have for him currently is incorrect. Warping the frabric of a Universe (and possibly even the human universe given its natural disasters of nature and its dimensional setting during the whole situation and also, if my memory serves correct, Naga's very presence inside the Silent Core alone was causing both the human world and Vestroia to slowly mix with each other.) should be a justification fot a tier 2 character, not a tier 3 one. So either he should be upgraded to MATCH the reasoning or we just need to modify the justification.

Tho, since his feat is questionably tier 2 anyway, we could always put "At least 3-A, possibly Low 2-C" for Naga. Same for Infinity Drago who either equals or surpasses Naga with the Infinity Core. And Perfect Drago should be flat out tier 2. Being low 2-C feat wise and 2-C through powerscaling.

Any issues with this suggestion?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know. What do the rest of you think?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

I am okay with Kukui's suggestion though I think it is likely rather than possibly for that matter.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yeah I agree with Kukui.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to change the profiles then.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Kukui I take it you'll handle the fixing of the files since you have more understanding on what should be rated. Also I posted my suggestions for Drago's other forms above.

 

[Antvasima]

Do you need any pages unlocked?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I don't think any of the Bakugan pages are locked.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Dragon

Thank you but at the moment I am with my grandparents so my free time coming online is more limited than it usually is. I should get more time to myself later on to perform the upgrades and I'll let you guys know if I do but it's likely that someone else more qualified and free will be needed to do it. Unless are you guys fine with waiting until later on for the upgrades to happen?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

I am free as of now.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Also my bad but i havs another suggestion. For the city block ratings shouldnt they be changed to "At Least City Block via sheer size"?

I seem to remember a very fodder level Bakugan (an Aquas one) being able to cause Tsunami waved with just its mere presence alone. If thats true then it should scale over to all clearly stronger bakugan.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

If you can find the Tsunami feat, I can try to calc it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Kk I'll try. Also I just left my grandparents house and am now at my cousins (with wifi xD) so I'm definitely free to do any upgrades if not done already.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Updating Naga's page now

Question. Since we decided that Naga's warping of Vestroia was extremely casual, shouldnt his Reality Warping be useful in combat? And what was the reason for that weakness anyway?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Kukui It should be at least.