Possible Bleach Downgrade?

[BarryAllen2.0]

If People like Ichigo can be considered to become SK as well as Takinada's apprentice from the New Bleach Novel which is Canon, how exactly does the destruction of the 3 dimensions scale to their AP? Yhwach has already Showed us that ichigo is nowhere near his level.

 

[SilentBob34]

Um I'm pretty sure the only reason Yhwach beat Ichigo so easily was because of the Almighty not because of a difference in raw power.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Umm, the original SK wasn't that strong ap and durability wise as yhwach one shorted him, ichigo is a special treatment, he basically has bits and pieces of every major bleach race which is the possible reason he got considered

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Also we don't know how strong the apprentice is, for all we knowbhe could have some hidden power that makes him ubber tier

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Ok, but just scaling from Ichigo. He could not withstand any attack Yhwach wasn't dicking around with. And he was still pretty much low diffed.

 

[SilentBob34]

Ichigo withstood multiple attacks from Yhwach's darkness stuff and his sword. Well Yhwach was obviously not trying against Ichigo in shikai but I'm pretty sure when he started using his sword against Ichigo he was a lot more serious otherwise he would've just stayed standing in the same place using his darkness stuff. Also Yamamoto and Ichibei got one shot by a base Yhwach that didn't seem to be trying either.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@SilentBob

The problem is, Yhwach was casual with everything he did with Ichigo, IIRC, while Ichigo was trying, Yhwach was smiling his ass off during their exchanges. Sure, Yhwach was trying more that when he was sitting down but that's not sying much. With every hit that connected Ichigo was injured significantly (And he didn't use Almighty to injure ichigo...Traps not withstanding, but it was still his Reiatsu inflicting the injuries).

 

[SilentBob34]

@BarryAllen2.0 Yhwach was smiling when he was using the Almighty because it pretty much a guaranteed win. Before when Ichigo first went into his hollow form he surprised Yhwach twice and hurt him with his getsuga tenshou gran rey cero. Yhwach even admitted the reason he was using the Almighty was because he didn't have any room for error. And he may not been using the Almighty to attack Ichigo directly, but he did use it to make it to where Ichigo couldn't defend against his attacks at all. I'm pretty sure if the situation was reversed, Ichigo could do the same thing.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Silentbob

Ichigo surprised Yhwach yes, but he didn't injure Yhwach. The GRCGT didn't even scratch Yhwach and he crushed it easily. Yhwach caught Ichigo's blade in his hand (Hollow-Quincy Shikai) and told him his strength is not enough to even Pierce him. This was before Almight and even then, before using its power to damage Ichigo with his Reiatsu Traps, he was easily fending him off and Knocking him back. Despite what Yhwach Said, Ichigo couldn't harm him, blitz him (Pre-Almighty) or overwhelm him and Yhwach didn't have to use Almighty.

Only thing Yhwach used Almighty For Against Ichigo was:

• Reiatsu Traps
• Break Zangetsu
• Snap the horn
• Keep Orihime from protecting him
• Appear behind him (Once and it's debatable)

All injures Ichigo in Bankai Sustained was from Yhwachs AP, not Almighty. Even after having his Bankai fixed, Yhwach casually tossed around Ichigo, Renji and Aizen... Or just Aizen... It was weird but you get the point.

Not once was Yhwach "Serious" and when he got a little Serious, they got stomped. So no, Ichigo is nowhere near Yhwachs Level.

 

[AppleLord]

Going with Ichigo been stronger than Yhwach in Bankai, since he killed Yhwach twice. Only reason Yhwach defeated Ichigo in the first fight was because he used Almighty to destroy Ichigo's power-ups Bankai and Resurrection before he could fight in that form.

Shikai> Bankai> Resurrection and Bankai at the same time. The second time Yhwach was killed was because all of his powers were cancelled, and we all now Quincy's are humans in the end. A shikai can do the trick, but I don't know if that was his original shikai, because it was thinner and the handle was longer. In the novel Ichigo recover the powers Yhwach took from him.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Lol, dudes, come on now, Ichigo isn't stronger than Yhwach. This has been proven. Yhwach is just Glass Canon.

 

[SilentBob34]

I pretty much agree with AppleLord but idk you can look at either way I guess. Although he did call Ichigo's bankai fearsome and chose to break it immediately instead of letting Ichigo fight him. The one clean shot he got on Yhwach with his bankai was able to kill him in one hit but the ending was rushed so we didn't see a full fight. And I still don't understand how Yhwach is a glass cannon.. I mean in his base form his ap and dura are equal so why after absorbing the soul king his ap increases but not his durability seems weird.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Lol, dudes, come on now, Ichigo isn't stronger than Yhwach. This has been proven. Yhwach is just Glass Canon.

That's why his rated at moon level instead of planet (which is yhwach's max)....

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Peter

Honestly, Going from Country > Moon Level, that buff isn't common in Bleach for Shikai to Bankai or any power up for that matter as far as I can remember.

Ichigo and Aizen are scaled from Yhwachs casual AP. What I don't get is, nothing Suggests they are moon level prior and Yhwach has Shown at least Country+ casual AP, so if his Casual AP is Ranging from Country+ to Moon Level, why are they scaled to his High End Casual AP. Going with what's stated in verse, Bakai Ichigo would be in the Multi-Continent Range let alone High end Moon level at least. But I digess.

Even if Ichigo is Moon Level+ at least (Which i'm highly scepticle of for the stated reason) Him being considered for SK would prove being able to do away with the dimensions isn't tied to AP.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Didnt you make the exact same points in a previous thread and it got rejected?

Anyway Ichigo and Aizens ap needs fixing due to the changed vandenreich calc but no one really cares to update it.

 

[SilentBob34]

@LordAizenSama

Since the feat was downgraded to multi continent level, when they get their ap changed are both of them going to be at least High 6A possibly 5B? Or just flat out High 6A?

 

[Omimi]

Going with Ichigo been stronger than Yhwach in Bankai, since Ichigo killed Yhwach twice

If I recall correctly

1st time base Yhwach was killled by serprise attack

2nd time ichigo was able to kill him cuz Yhwach's power was sealed by Silver arrow

so why do u think that Ichigo is stronger than Yhwach in Bankai

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Durability =/= Ability

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

@LordAizenSama

Since the feat was downgraded to multi continent level, when they get their ap changed are both of them going to be at least High 6A possibly 5B? Or just flat out High 6A?

It wasn't downgraded to high 6-a, it was just deemed not correct

 

[SilentBob34]

@Peter

Oh ok thanks for letting me know.

 

[SilentBob34]

@Omimi

It wasn't base Yhwach he killed, it was soul king Yhwach. And it's already been stated that in Bleach you have to have spirit energy on a level comaparable to your opponent otherwise you can't hurt them.

 

[AppleLord]

If I recall correctly

1st time base Yhwach was killled by serprise attack

2nd time ichigo was able to kill him cuz Yhwach's power was sealed by Silver arrow

so why do u think that Ichigo is stronger than Yhwach in Bankai

I answered the second statement in the same post. The other statement was answered by @SilentBob34.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@LordAizenSama

Since the feat was downgraded to multi continent level, when they get their ap changed are both of them going to be at least High 6A possibly 5B? Or just flat out High 6A?

Id imagine exactly how you described it. At least High 6-A Possibly 5-B

 

[SilentBob34]

@LordAizenSama

Oh alright cool! And just to be sure, the vandenreich feat was going to be downgraded since the distance between ss and skp was reduced right? Or is it staying the same?

 

[LordAizenSama]

The distance got reduced, yes

 

[AppleLord]

Base on?

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway Ichigo and Aizens ap needs fixing due to the changed vandenreich calc but no one really cares to update it.

I would appreciate if you could handle it. I can unlock the pages for you if you wish.

 

[AppleLord]

The calc isn't accepted yet, the pages would be Unknown until the Revision @Antvasima.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

Ichigo has way more raw power than Yhwach, proven time and time again. There's no reason he shouldn't scale to him.

 

[TataHakai]

Didn't Yhwach literally scrunch up an attack from ichigo without difficulty? And this was with the almighty off by the way

 

[TataHakai]

http://********.me/manga/bleach/vTBD/c676/14.html

This is the attack

http://********.me/manga/bleach/vTBD/c677/3.html

It literally crumbles in Yhwach's hands as if it was paper

 

[AppleLord]

Didn't Yhwach literally scrunch up an attack from ichigo without difficulty? And this was with the almighty off by the way

That was Shikai Ichigo + Resurrection which is above a normal Bankai. < Ichigo + Resurrection + Bankai is like having two Bankai multipliers at the same time.

 

[TataHakai]

If i recall correctly the only thing we have to scale Ichigo off Yhwach for is that their reiatsu's were stated to be at the same level

Every time Ichigo has harmed Yhwach he's had help one way or another to even land a hit on him and even when he did land a hit on him it was either because

> Yhwach was caught off guard

> Yhwach didn't attempt to dodge and assumed the attack wouldn't kill him as he thought it was a dream thus probably lowered his guard once again

 

[SilentBob34]

@UchihaVision

How are you supposed to attack someone who see all possible futures and change them to how he likes without catching him off guard being the only way? If Yhwach didn't activate the Almighty Ichigo would've had a much better chance.

 

[AppleLord]

@SilentBob34 Gave a logical answered @UchihaVision and to me it seems reasonable. What do you think? Besides Yhwach going serious on Ichigo after Almighty activation.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Ichigo wouldn't scale to Yhwach. Guys, you're literally Assuming things that aren't backed up by the manga.

Yhwach was extremely casual with everything he did against him. You're clinging too hard to a statement. Yhwach said his power was Formidable in that form and that he had no room for error yet:

• Tanked that forms potentially strongest attack
• Crushed said attack
• Caught ichigo blade in his hand casually
• Mocked Ichigo's strength saying its meager and not enough to Pierce him and that he's out of his league.
• Countered Ichigo and knocked him back

Bankai Ichigo did have the AP to Harm Yhwach, though the first time Yhwach was caught off guard, second Yhwach was under the affects of the silver Arrow. We can't even claim the Reiatsu Laws being as those where already broken. Yhwach wouldn't have been able to Absorb Mimihagi, Aizen wouldn't have been able to affect him with KS, Ichigo wouldn't have been able to harm him. So yes, Yhwach is just Glass Canon. Honestly, with the new information we know, everything about the SK's power needs to be revised.

 

[AppleLord]

When did Yhwach tanked Ichigo's strongest attack in Merged Hollow Form + Bankai?

Crushed an attack from a shikai + resurrection.

He also caught the blade again and stop its movements after been cut in half. But couldn't stop Ichigo's strongest attack which killed Yhwach the first time, he wasn't caught off guard by Getsuga Tensho. He was turning around to counter it. What caught him off guard was the stab in the back, he could had use his reiatsu to prevent Ichigo from killing him with Getsuga Tensho if he really was stronger.

Mocked a weaker Ichigo, not full power.

After destroing his two power ups. Yhwach destroyed his bankai and his horn making Ichigo weaker.

Mimihagi was rip off from the Soul King when Yhwach absorb him, and the worlds started collapsing again before Yhwach absorb Mimihagi.

Aizen affected a weaker Yhwach, base Yhwach. And he was mention to have gotten stronger. Since when hax =\= ap/dc if you ask me Aizen should be weaker than Yhwach and downgraded. He never harmed Yhwach, and his immortality saves him from durability damage.

Ichigo never harm him in a weaker form. Bankai Ichigo was enough, which means Bankai + resurrection is what Yhwach feared, a foe that could stomp him. Ichigo was already in resurrection when he try to go Bankai.

There you see all your questions have been answered.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Applelord

For starters, there is no way I could be talking about his Banki because he didn't show anything save for getting Stomped. Also, being as you've read the manga like me, you should know that Yhwach only stated Ichigo's power was formidable in regards to his Hollow-Quincy Shikai Form.

1.)That's not how it works. Also, Yhwach didn't stop Ichigo's sword after behing cut in half. Idk what the heck you're going on about.




And no, he wasn't going to be able to counter a GT from a Blade Already Piercing him. The only way to do so is to knock ichigo away which he didn't have time to do. It doesn't work like how you're trying to push it.

2.)Yhwach said this:




About the Same Ichigo he mocked and was stomping even prior to activating Almighty. Obviously, without feats his Statements should be taken with a grain of salt because of this, which are why Feats > Dialogue.

Why would this Ichigo be formidible when he couldn't even scratch Yhwach with a direct attack from arguably his strongest tech in this form and had his blade caught bare handed aizen style?

3.)It doesn't matter considering his base bakai is what injured Yhwach. Not to mention you don't know how much stronger the buffs give him without assuming and using arbitrary values for multiplers. As I aid before, him Injuring Yhwach doesn't scale to his AP because Yhwach is simply Glass Canon. The only argument against Glass Canon Yhwach is the Reiatsu Law:







Which were already broken this same arc multiple times. Thus you should take it at face Value, Yhwach was caught of Guard and Ichigo's Bankai Reiatsu (With Killing Intent) is stronger than the Reiatsu that leaks out of Yhwachs Body subconciously. And please, don't try to twist this for your own gains, the leaking out Reiatsu of an off guard or just sub counsiously isn't equivalent to the full power of a person. Otherwise, Ichigo would have soul crushed potentially his own town sub-consiously.

4.)Which is exactly why the worlds balance or whether they can be destroyed by the SK shouldn't be tied to their AP. Especially if Ichigo who is weaker could be considefed for the job. And like I said, if the Reiatsu Laws weren't broken, Yhwach couldn't have absorbed Mimihagi with his abilities.

5.)Another example of why arguing for the Reiatsu Law in Yhwach's regard is moot. he's glass canon and that Law of the Verse was broken. Read the Aizen Scan above.

6.)Ichigo, like Aizen was weaker. If Ichigo was stronger. I'm not going to debate your headconon. Yhwach is GLass Canon. Lord Aizen, Gwynbleidd and I'm sure others will agree. Ichigo Caught Yhwach off guard the first time and Yhwach was under the affect of the Silver Arrow the second time. Ichigo never harmed a serious prepared Yhwach.

 

[AppleLord]

I'll counter your argument tonight after the Sony E3 conference.

"And please, don't try to twist this for your own gains," < this is not even a thing, otherwise, opinions, debates and ideas wouldn't matter or exist. Facts are what matter. If anyone else wants to contribute to the conversation feel free, I'll reply later regardless.