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Warning: This is from the newest episode of the Pokemon Sun and Moon anime. By any chance some here actually watch it, and want to watch the episode on their own first, do not come to this thread until you've watched it. Now as for who is getting upgraded.....lets begin.
AP Upgrades
Proposed Tier:
Why should the named pokemon be upgraded?
Was just getting to this. So for those who did watch the new episode of Pokemon S/M, or for those who just don't care and came here anyway, Necrozma finally makes its debut in the anime series and there's some stuff between its connection with Solgaleo and Lunala that may give much more support for the latter 2 scaling toward Ultra Necrozma's tier of 4-B. A thread for this was made earlier but it seems to be moving quite slowly (it may just be me, but I feel this should be better detailed, so im remaking it myself). I've made a very detailed reply to this on why I think they should be upgraded and I'd appreciate it if you look at it before replying here. I'll be posting screenshots from the episode of what was said and done so everyone gets all the in's and outs. That being said, lets get er done.
What happened in the episode:
So in the newest episode, Lillie talks to Ash and friends about one of Necrozma's legends, which particularly has Solgaleo and Lunala playing a special part in it. It's as followed:
Obvious info here. Ultra Necrozma shines forth and gives light to the Pokemon World (and the worlds throughout Ultra Space as well):
This light of Ultra Necrozma's has a mysterious power (Z-Power most likely) and as a result the Alola Region is born. That last part, and context, strongly implies the Alola region itself was born from the light of Ultra Necro, so this could at least be Life Creation hax, if not flat out Creation:
Self-explanatory, though "long" may be pushing it because of the very next scan. Necrozma loses its light and falls asleep:
Solgaleo and Lunala show up & decide to be pals (Universal sensing???) and share some of their light energy with Necrozma to make him Ultra Necrozma again. Without getting possessed. This is the most important part that i'll cover below:
With its true form back again, Ultra Necrozma decides to hit the road back into Ultra Space (without a thank you?? Geez, no wonder the other 2 hate it ovo):
And in this scan, Solgaleo and Lunala appear to be completely fine, not drained/weakened, after sharing their light with Necrozma. Casual? Nah. But definitely not struggling while doing this:
My Opinion:
For Solgaleo and Lunala's part here, this is the same as the games only they're not having their light forcibly stolen from Necrozma this time. Both of them are sharing their light here to make Necrozma whole again. This is a blatent energy transference feat, basically the same as when Vegeta and co, gave their energy to Goku to make him strong enough to beat broly. Probabaly not the best example but it was on my mind. Because both are combining shared light and giving it to Necrozma, this is definitely an adding of energies together to fully restore Necrozma to Ultra Necrozma again. Meaning, both Solgaleo and Lunala would have to be 4-B each here (lower end of it individually of course) to provide the energy to restore Necrozma's form. So, as far as I go, I believe this is a perfect case of them each being 4-B.
How would the named Pokemon be affected by this?:
Base Necrozma is self-explanatory. In fact, the anime adds more by showing it off as more battle-hungry than in the games as Base Necrozma goes on a high-speed chase after Solgaleo and Lunala in Ultra Space and can beat them around. If Base becomes 4-B, then of course the Dawn and Dusk forms get upscaled from that. Anyway, if Solgaleo and Lunala both become 4-B, then the Tapu are effected since they can fight the former in battle for a while (before losing). If wanting to be on the safe side, we can always put a Possibly/Likely for the Tapu. After the Tapu, we'd get to the Ultra Beasts who can fight (and defeat?) the Tapu in battle. The UB's would get at least a Likely if this is accepted.
Now as for Sivally...im not exactly sure for him. IDK if the last time we decided to put these guys at tier 4 Sivally became a part of the club. Seeing as he was made to defeat UBs, he should be able to defeat at least common ones like Buzzwole, who'd be 4-B if this was to be accepted. Im not sure for him so I put maybe. This can be discussed later.
EDIT: Thanks to Lephyr posting these scans here , Sivally definitely scales to the UB's 4-B (if accepted).
But again, all of this is only for the Gen 7 guys. We are not applying this to any other legendary and I gurantee almost all of us here would agree on that notion. For the rest of this, this is just some other stuff I think could be added in too.
Speed
Now, its obviously no secret that the Gen 7 guys are MFTL+. This is already accepted and the justifications prove so. However, there's only one tid bit of a problem with the justifications. They are generalized. Majorly. To put this in perspective, while it's obvious that crossing an X amount of light years in seconds is MFTL+, to what actual degree of speed is totally unknown. For all we know, these guys could be as low in the billions to as high in the Quintillions. And like ive tried for 2+ threads to note out, we don't have a speed calc for these guys. Given the mechanics of the Ultra Space traveling, as they give us a pretty solid specific estimate of light years traveled, it should be extremely easy to make a small tid bit of math for these guys. Even im able to and im not a calc guy. I'll share with you what I did but since this isn't an official blog or calc, I just want an opinion on it. If it's simple enough, we can just slap it in here. If not, we (or I) can make a blog for it and get it evaluated the usual way. Okay, here's what I did:
Is any of this right? I don't know. Is any of this wrong? Again, I do not know. I am not a calc person. But because my question of making calcs for these guys went dead everytime, I felt I needed to at least try and attempt at it. I could care less if none of that is legit in the end. All I ask is for this to be discussed and considered please. Finally, to end this thread, we get to hax
Hax:
Nothing really major and I said it before but i'll say so again
AP Upgrades
Proposed Tier:
- Likely or Flat out 4-B, Solar System level
- Base Necrozma
- Dusk Maine Necrozma
- Dawn Wings Necrozma
- Solgaleo
- Lunala
- Tapu Koko
- Tapu Fini
- Tapu Bulu
- Tapu Lele
- All other Ultra Beasts
- Maybe Sivally
- Any legendary that isn't apart of the mentioned, so leave them out of here please. Period. Under no circumstances should legendaries that aren't apart of the named ones be discussed here. They definitely aren't getting this (if accepted). Bringing this up before getting to the topic since it seemingly keeps popping up here and we need to drop it to make this thread smooth as possible.
Why should the named pokemon be upgraded?
Was just getting to this. So for those who did watch the new episode of Pokemon S/M, or for those who just don't care and came here anyway, Necrozma finally makes its debut in the anime series and there's some stuff between its connection with Solgaleo and Lunala that may give much more support for the latter 2 scaling toward Ultra Necrozma's tier of 4-B. A thread for this was made earlier but it seems to be moving quite slowly (it may just be me, but I feel this should be better detailed, so im remaking it myself). I've made a very detailed reply to this on why I think they should be upgraded and I'd appreciate it if you look at it before replying here. I'll be posting screenshots from the episode of what was said and done so everyone gets all the in's and outs. That being said, lets get er done.
What happened in the episode:
So in the newest episode, Lillie talks to Ash and friends about one of Necrozma's legends, which particularly has Solgaleo and Lunala playing a special part in it. It's as followed:
Obvious info here. Ultra Necrozma shines forth and gives light to the Pokemon World (and the worlds throughout Ultra Space as well):
This light of Ultra Necrozma's has a mysterious power (Z-Power most likely) and as a result the Alola Region is born. That last part, and context, strongly implies the Alola region itself was born from the light of Ultra Necro, so this could at least be Life Creation hax, if not flat out Creation:
Self-explanatory, though "long" may be pushing it because of the very next scan. Necrozma loses its light and falls asleep:
Solgaleo and Lunala show up & decide to be pals (Universal sensing???) and share some of their light energy with Necrozma to make him Ultra Necrozma again. Without getting possessed. This is the most important part that i'll cover below:
With its true form back again, Ultra Necrozma decides to hit the road back into Ultra Space (without a thank you?? Geez, no wonder the other 2 hate it ovo):
And in this scan, Solgaleo and Lunala appear to be completely fine, not drained/weakened, after sharing their light with Necrozma. Casual? Nah. But definitely not struggling while doing this:
My Opinion:
For Solgaleo and Lunala's part here, this is the same as the games only they're not having their light forcibly stolen from Necrozma this time. Both of them are sharing their light here to make Necrozma whole again. This is a blatent energy transference feat, basically the same as when Vegeta and co, gave their energy to Goku to make him strong enough to beat broly. Probabaly not the best example but it was on my mind. Because both are combining shared light and giving it to Necrozma, this is definitely an adding of energies together to fully restore Necrozma to Ultra Necrozma again. Meaning, both Solgaleo and Lunala would have to be 4-B each here (lower end of it individually of course) to provide the energy to restore Necrozma's form. So, as far as I go, I believe this is a perfect case of them each being 4-B.
How would the named Pokemon be affected by this?:
Base Necrozma is self-explanatory. In fact, the anime adds more by showing it off as more battle-hungry than in the games as Base Necrozma goes on a high-speed chase after Solgaleo and Lunala in Ultra Space and can beat them around. If Base becomes 4-B, then of course the Dawn and Dusk forms get upscaled from that. Anyway, if Solgaleo and Lunala both become 4-B, then the Tapu are effected since they can fight the former in battle for a while (before losing). If wanting to be on the safe side, we can always put a Possibly/Likely for the Tapu. After the Tapu, we'd get to the Ultra Beasts who can fight (and defeat?) the Tapu in battle. The UB's would get at least a Likely if this is accepted.
Now as for Sivally...im not exactly sure for him. IDK if the last time we decided to put these guys at tier 4 Sivally became a part of the club. Seeing as he was made to defeat UBs, he should be able to defeat at least common ones like Buzzwole, who'd be 4-B if this was to be accepted. Im not sure for him so I put maybe. This can be discussed later.
EDIT: Thanks to Lephyr posting these scans here , Sivally definitely scales to the UB's 4-B (if accepted).
But again, all of this is only for the Gen 7 guys. We are not applying this to any other legendary and I gurantee almost all of us here would agree on that notion. For the rest of this, this is just some other stuff I think could be added in too.
Speed
Now, its obviously no secret that the Gen 7 guys are MFTL+. This is already accepted and the justifications prove so. However, there's only one tid bit of a problem with the justifications. They are generalized. Majorly. To put this in perspective, while it's obvious that crossing an X amount of light years in seconds is MFTL+, to what actual degree of speed is totally unknown. For all we know, these guys could be as low in the billions to as high in the Quintillions. And like ive tried for 2+ threads to note out, we don't have a speed calc for these guys. Given the mechanics of the Ultra Space traveling, as they give us a pretty solid specific estimate of light years traveled, it should be extremely easy to make a small tid bit of math for these guys. Even im able to and im not a calc guy. I'll share with you what I did but since this isn't an official blog or calc, I just want an opinion on it. If it's simple enough, we can just slap it in here. If not, we (or I) can make a blog for it and get it evaluated the usual way. Okay, here's what I did:
- I wanted to find the very highest number of Light Years we players are able to travel in Ultra Space in the USUM games to get something notable but I was never able to find anything that said the highest. Endless light year traveling in-game? Maybe, but too speculative and it'd obviously be wank to say like 100000000000 light years just to try and give these guys a ridiculous speed value. So to be on the safe side, I took the LY number from Darkanine's calc as the highest number of LY's we can definitely travel while in Ultra Space. That would be 13,954 Light Years.
- 1 Light Year = 5.879x10^12, or 5,879,000,000,000 trillion miles. Since the scan from the game said it was 13,954 LY's, that would = 8.20303x10^16, or 82,030,300,000,000,000 Quintillion miles. I can be incredibly wrong about this, so bear with me as im not a calc person, but since we accepted Solgaleo and Lunala traveling these many light years in seconds, I plugged in numbers on a online speed calculator using seconds with reasonable ends. The high end is 5, the mid end is 10, and the low end is 15. From that calculator, these are results that I got in the order of ends:
Is any of this right? I don't know. Is any of this wrong? Again, I do not know. I am not a calc person. But because my question of making calcs for these guys went dead everytime, I felt I needed to at least try and attempt at it. I could care less if none of that is legit in the end. All I ask is for this to be discussed and considered please. Finally, to end this thread, we get to hax
Hax:
Nothing really major and I said it before but i'll say so again
- Ultra Necrozma likely having Creation or Life Creation. When it spreaded its light, Lillie in that context specifically said the Alola Region was born from it.
- Universal/Multiversal energy sensing for all of the Light Trio. Base Necrozma in the beginning of the episode was sleeping in an unknown universe and the very instant it woke from slumber, Solgaleo and Lunala arrvied from Ultra Wormholes to confront it. Without sensing on this level it'd be impossible for them to locate Necro.
