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Pokemon Upgrades

@Kukui Yes I think I understand better now. It's similar to how a character can be ranked as "possibly" a higher tier like 2-A for suviving serious attacks from other beings significantly higher than them in the same tier, since logically they can't be infinitely weaker than the attacks if they survived.

They're not equal to or even close to Necro, which was my mistake, they're just in the same league of power since they could output enough to restore him. Makes sense in hindsight, I got way too caught up on timeframes to consider that.
 
One question:

Ash Ketchum fought Nihilego with his Pikachu to free Lusamine from the UB's control. Does Ash and Ash's Pikachu with Pikashium-Z scale to that as well (at least in AP)?

Edit: We shall leave the other characters as they are and see until other feats trigger future updates.
 
Nope, we'd treat that as an outlier or PIS.

If we won't even allow Zygarde to scale to the UBs, for reasons Saikou already made clear, Ash definitely isn't getting his pokemon scaled.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Wasn't it agreed on lighting the universe because Ultra Wormholes connect to other universes entirely? (And Rainbow Rocket stuff, I think)
Click to expand...
The issue is that we assumed Necrozma basically stood in one place and illuminated everything in Ultra Space, which is how other worlds received its light.

This confirms that is entirely untrue, and that Necrozma was just providing light for the actual worlds.

The feat is only 4-B now if we ignore the actual context we've been given.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
The reason why the anime shows it seemingly more for planets than universes (not even that 100% since in the scans Necrozma's light, that makes a green coloring, is going up into space too) is because no one in the show even knows that Necrozma provided light for the other worlds throughout Ultra Space too as opposed to just theirs. To them, they only think their world got light instead of the other ones, which doesn't mess anything up.
Click to expand...
Is this ever actually shown in the show?

Because if it isn't, we're guessing context for a feat to make it more impressive than it's actually shown to be.
 
...the stuff posted in the OP?

Of course, if we're going to ignore it and say "this is wrong", there isn't really reason to assume Necrozma was lighting up the entirety of Ultra Space at once either, considering I'm pretty sure that isn't shown or stated.
 
@cal

"only good Gen 7 Legendary"

I feel attacked, right now.

@Kukui

I'm asking if the idea of Necrozma lighting up all of a universe or Ultra Space at once from a single location (which is where the 4-B comes from) is ever shown or alluded to. Because the anime suggests it went to different worlds to provide its light.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
@Kukui

I'm asking if the idea of Necrozma lighting up all of a universe or Ultra Space at once from a single location (which is where the 4-B comes from) is ever shown or alluded to. Because the anime suggests it went to different worlds to provide its light.
Click to expand...
Ah okay. Sorry just wanted to know exactly what im supposed to answer.

Anywho, here's my thought. The thing with this question is it has to assume the characters in the anime even know about Necrozma's light being granted to worlds other than their ow, which they don't. No one in the Pokemon verse at all knows about Necrozma providing light to Ultra Space, or worlds besides their own, other than the Ultra Recon Squad, who so far do not exist in the anime to provide them with that information like they do for us in the games. From Ash and everyone else's perspectives, Necrozma's light was granted only to their world without knowing other worlds in Ultra Space got it too, hence why Lillie explains this as such through depictions I put in my OP.

So to answer your question, it's an unknown since Necrozma's history of lighting up Ultra Space hasn't been discovered (yet) in the anime. Especially since this episode is literally Necrozma's 1st apperance in the anime, his arc just started.
 
Cosmic Duo are instantly low tier Legendaries because Nebby won't stay in the goddamn bag (I actually really like the Light Trio).

Tapu Koko is...really cool but it's still has a chicken head for arms. The rest pale.

UB02 (both of them) are the only worthwhile Ultra Beasts and I defy you to tell me otherwise ovo.

Can't complain about the mythicals though. Even in jest.
 
@Kukui

If this is all we've been shown, then Necrozma shouldn't be assumed to be completely lighting up all of Ultra Space/any universes until we get actual proof of it. Honestly, this is probably how we should have handled things from the beginning.

If we don't have that, Necrozma should be 4-B.

@Cal

"Tapu Koko is...really cool but it's still has a chicken head for arms. The rest pale."

https://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/193/344/fdd.png
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
@Kukui
If this is all we've been shown, then Necrozma shouldn't be assumed to be completely lighting up all of Ultra Space/any universes until we get actual proof of it. Honestly, this is probably how we should have handled things from the beginning.

If we don't have that, Necrozma should be 4-B.
Click to expand...
I get that but with due respect Azzy, I kinda have to disagree. At least as far as the universes themselves go since it makes much more sense for Necrozma's light to fill up the universe's at a whole instead of just the earth's.

I'll argue Ultra Space in a min.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I get that but with due respect Azzy, I kinda have to disagree. At least as far as the universes themselves go since it makes much more sense for Necrozma's light to fill up the universe's at a whole instead of just the earth's.
Click to expand...
If we're shown the opposite of this, and nothing actually states Necrozma lit up the entire universe (in fact, even the game wording suggests otherwise), it doesn't matter. What matters is if the feat actually even exists or not, which right now, it doesn't.
 
In this case, it actually does kind of matter when, in the context regarding Earth, it would already have light before Necrozma even played a role for it. Not in the context regarding entire universes.

Besides, at the worst, if this arc doesn't suffice by the time its over, it downgrades Solgaleo/Lunala and the other Tapu and UB's since what the anime does doesnt touch the games.
 
But the issue still persists in the game, though.

We currently assume Necrozma lit up all of Ultra Space at once from a single spot, but nothing actually suggests this. It's just an assumption which we are now fully seeing likely isn't the intent.

We're not even really supposed to tier things based on unfounded assumptions, anyway.
 
Actually it's not really an assumption though (at least not as bad as assmuptions that aren't worth a bit of tiering ratings anyway).

As far as, like Bulbpedia goes, it explicty states that Necrozma's light shone through the Ultra Wormholes that are connected to the other worlds, meaning Necrozma himself definitely didnt go through them to each world. His light went through them to each world, so he'd have to be doing it from a single spot for this to happen.

The only debatable question left is where he was located when he shined his light to the worlds.
 
"As far as, like Bulbpedia goes"

Bulbapedia is not the primary source material.

Also, if his light reached these worlds through wormholes, that's even less reason to assume he was lighting an entire universe and not just individual worlds.
 
Given we use Bulbapedia for quite a lot of Pokemon related material here, and its proven to be correct on a lot of stuff, I personally don't see the harm in using what it says. But thats just me only.

Or the light came through the wormholes and just light up the universes as a whole when coming out? Earth would already have light before Necrozma does this, so saying it'd only go as far as to individual worlds would be wrong.
 
"Given we use Bulbapedia for quite a lot of Pokemon related material here"

When it's direct quotes or sources are provided.

"Or the light came through the wormholes and just light up the universes as a whole when coming out?"

Evidence?
 
Fair, but the Ultra Recon Squad are the ones who provide the information about the worlds throughout Ultra Space being given light in the first place, hence why Bulbapedia would list it. This would then come down to challenging what they say.

The lighting up the worlds information. The earths in each universe in Ultra Space would already have light before Necrozma's light go to them, so in this context, it would have to mean their entire universes, not just the earths.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
The lighting up the worlds information. The earths in each universe in Ultra Space would already have light before Necrozma's light go to them, so in this context, it would have to mean their entire universes, not just the earths.
Click to expand...
Yes.

And so would much of the rest of the universe, unless literally no other light source existed anywhere.

However, we see Necrozma giving its light to Alola. It doesn't mean these places were literally pitch black before Necrozma showed up. Hell, look at Ultra Megalopolis itself even after it's lost its light.
 
"And so would much of the rest of the universe".

You kinda lost at me at this, what actually proves the rest/most of the universe has a light source? Because to my knowledge, most of the universe doesn't have light. Only we do because of the sun providing light to earth and the entire solar system.

Ultra Megalopolis isn't pitch black because of Megalo Tower though, it was absorbing Necros light energy to provide their world with light to some extent.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
You kinda lost at me at this, what actually proves the rest/most of the universe has a light source? Because to my knowledge, most of the universe doesn't have light. Only we do because of the sun providing light to earth and the entire solar system.
Click to expand...
The other stars are the light sources for everything else in the universe
 
Kaltias said:
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
You kinda lost at me at this, what actually proves the rest/most of the universe has a light source? Because to my knowledge, most of the universe doesn't have light. Only we do because of the sun providing light to earth and the entire solar system.
Click to expand...
The other stars are the light sources for everything else in the universe
Click to expand...
Yes but for the entire universe at once? IIRC, we're only aware of our milky way and maybe a few other galaxies having enough stars to provide great light at best, ignoring the fact that the universe expands infinitely

Even then, this wouldn't make much sense to me. The sun would already be providing light in each of the solar systems in these universes, let alone the earths. Necrozma only providing light to each of the earths in these universes, instead of the whole universes themselves, when the sun would already constantly fit that role perfectly, is 100% uneccessary.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Yes but for the entire universe at once? IIRC, we're only aware of our milky way and maybe a few other galaxies having enough stars to provide great light at best, ignoring the fact that the universe expands infinitely
Click to expand...
No, of course not. Each star provides light for its surroundings, just like the Sun does. Finding distant stars and galaxies is difficult because they are billions of light years away, not because they aren't bright. They light up the universe as a whole, not individually.

It's like the difference between seeing a candle while you are near it and when you are 3 km away. The luminosity is the same, you just have more difficulty seeing it
 
Okay so then I see 2 options left to choose/discuss from.

-Necrozma provided light for all the universes entirely, via the context given to us, as only doing it for the individual earths is ridiculous when the sun would already luminate everything in the solar system before Necrozmas light even gets to them. At least from Mercury to Pluto. Plus the fact that not everything in the universe is light-filled. Earth is from the sun.

-Before Necrozma's light got to these worlds, they were totally pitch black for having no sun, stars, or anything provide a slick of light for them and they got lit up by Necrozma. It would still have to extend beyond the earths in order for them to constantly have light on a daily basis like the sun provides for us.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
The issue is that we assumed Necrozma basically stood in one place and illuminated everything in Ultra Space, which is how other worlds received its light.

This confirms that is entirely untrue, and that Necrozma was just providing light for the actual worlds.

The feat is only 4-B now if we ignore the actual context we've been given.
Click to expand...
Actually, in USUM, it's stated he did so in Ultra Megalopolis, I believe.
 
Ultra Necrozma light flows through the ultra wormholes:

"There's nothing that we here can do... We can no longer control it with our technology, and we certainly have no hope of defeating it in battle ourselves..."
"The light of Necrozma once filled our world. And it did not shine upon us alone. It gave energy to many, throughout Ultra Space."

"So this is Tapu Village! We will need to investigate it quite thoroughly. According to the records we have left to us, it seems that this is where Necrozma battled against the tapu when it came to Alola long ago, hungering for its light."
"It may be the case that the power which came pouring out of the Ultra Wormhole at that time is what changes Pokémon's regular moves into Z-Moves. Such theories have been suggested..."

~Dulse

"It's thought the power that came pouring out of the Ultra Wormhole at that time may be the source of Z-Moves' power... Yes, the light that the Blinding One... I mean, the light that Necrozma can wield."
"Our world is at peace now thanks to the Megalo Tower, which keeps the Blinding One contained. But we believe the tower is reaching its limit. And the Blinding One... Necrozma hungers for light."

~Soliera
 
"While you faced Necrozma in our Ultra Megalopolis, there are some things we found out about the auras that fill Alola..."
"Before our ancestors were forced to contain it, Necrozma emitted powerful light... That light is what you call auras!"
"Yes... Both the Z-Power for the Z-Moves and the auras of the Totem Pokémon are powers gifted to you by Necrozma."

~Soliera

Aura for U-Necrozma?

(Also obviously Xurkitree is the best UB)

Xurkitree
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
It's stated they were using Artificial light.
Click to expand...
Their artificial light did not fully bring back the light that they had before, though.

After you defeat Ultra Necrozma, they even mention that soon their world will be awash in light, once more.

The idea is just that "Necrozma bringing light somewhere" does not mean the place was literally pitch black before it did this.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Because Poipole (its pre-evo) is only as strong as regular mons, and Nagandel itself didn't recieve Necrozma-induced boosts that the other UBs did.
Click to expand...
Uh, what? When did the other UBs get a boost from Necrozma?
 
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