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Pokemon revisions

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The_Smashor

The_Smashor

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To put it simply, the Pokedex is wholey unreliable, and shouldn't be used at any point for any profile.

If nothing else, Gen 1 Pokedex should be completely ignored. It's entries are all canonically filled by Red, a ten year old child who could not have tested well over half the stuff in the Pokedex. Are you telling me that an earthquake just so happend to go off offscreen (Since we never see an earthquake in-game) and Red somehow knew that a Dugtrio caused it and how fast it burrowed underground? No. That's stupid.

Gengar's entry in Gen 7. How the hell would people know that was a human at one point? They wouldn't.

And as for the entries that seem plausible, if half of your food is covered in mold then you don't eat the other half because it dosn't look moldy. You throw the entire thing away because you can't trust that it's not moldy.
 
Gen 1's pokedex is literally filled out by a 10 year old with no scientific experience.

Remind me, how are people supposed to know Gengar was a person at some point?
 
Professor Oak literally tells Red to fill out the Pokedex and that it's a new invention. I'm not saying 10 year olds fill out the Pokedex in all generations, just in Gen 1.

You said nothing about my second question.
 
"Pokédex is filled by Red"

Bullshit. Oak's first words about the thing are that the Pokédex automatically records information about the creatures.

Also completely debunked by both the anime and Pokémon Adventures.
 
Which is still wrong. The OP of the last thread argued exactly what you are arguing now and Dragon debunked that in the very first reply in that thread. The dex is not written by the trainers, period. The dex automatically gathers the information when seeing or catching a pokemon.
 
"About the creators"? Could you rephrase that?

If it's debunked by the anime and Adventures then we can use Anime and Adventures entries. Dosn't mean the game Pokedex, where like 90% of the bullcrap hax and statistics from Pokedex entries comes from, is valid.

You also ignored my question
 
Edited. And the Adventures entires are the same entires from the games, even down to using the sprites instead of drawn artwork.
 
First of all, you took "debunked" way out of context. Cal meant that the headcanon of the trainers writing the dex entries is what was debunked by the anime and adventures.

Second of all, the dex entries are literally the same in both mediums, especially Adventures. So saying "the game dex is bs" is a useless point to argue when it changes absolutely nothing either way.
 
Not this argument again...

To quote my argument from last time.

"1) This does not mean these 10 year olds (not all are 10 in the first place) made the Pokedex. There are blatant quotes that note the information is process automatically that you have ignored.

Ah, <rival>, good timing! I needed to ask both of you to do something for me. On the desk there is my invention, Pokédex! It automatically records data on Pokémon you've seen or caught! It's a hi-tech encyclopedia! <player> and <rival>! Take these with you!
"Oh, right! I have a request for you two. On the desk there is my invention, the Pokédex! It automatically records data on Pokémon you've seen or caught. It's a high-tech encyclopedia! <player> and <rival>. Take these with you. You can't get detailed data on Pokémon by just seeing them. You must catch them to obtain complete data. So, here are some tools for catching wild Pokémon. When a wild Pokémon appears, it's fair game. Just throw a Poké Ball at it and try to catch it! This won't always work, however. A healthy Pokémon can escape. You have to be lucky! To make a complete guide on all the Pokémon in the world… That was my dream! But, I'm too old! I can't get the job done. So, I want you two to fulfill my dream for me. Get moving, you two. This is a great undertaking in Pokémon history!
"And with that... I'm Professor Oak, a Pokémon researcher! So you're <player>! I was just visiting my friend Mr. Pokémon. I heard you were running an errand for Professor Elm, so I waited here. Oh! What's this? A rare Pokémon! I see! You must be helping Professor Elm's research! I think I understand why Professor Elm gave you that Pokémon. You will treat your Pokémon with love and care, it seems. ...Ah! You seem to be dependable. How would you like to help me out? See? This is the latest version of the Pokédex. It automatically records data on Pokémon you've seen or caught. It's a high-tech encyclopedia! I'd like you to have it. Go meet many kinds of Pokémon and complete that Pokédex! But I've stayed too long. I have to get to Goldenrod for my usual radio show. <player>, I have a feeling that is not the last time we'll meet... Let's exchange numbers just to be on the safe side."
"Aha! So you're <player>! I'm Oak! A Pokémon researcher. I was just visiting my old friend Mr.Pokémon. I heard you were running an errand for Prof.Elm, so I waited here. Oh! What's this? A rare Pokémon! Let's see… Hm, I see! I understand why Prof.Elm gave you a Pokémon for this errand. To researchers like Prof.Elm and I, Pokémon are our friends. He saw that you would treat your Pokémon with love and care. …Ah! You seem to be dependable. How would you like to help me out? See? This is the latest version of Pokédex. It automatically records data on Pokémon you've seen or caught. It's a hi-tech encyclopedia! Go meet many kinds of Pokémon and complete that Pokédex! But I've stayed too long. I have to get to Goldenrod for my usual radio show. <player>, I'm counting on you!"
"A Pokédex is a real high-tech kinda tool, yeah, that can automatically record facts about any Pokémon that you meet. Your new partner <starter Pokémon> is already registered, oh yeah, so check it out!"
I could go on. Either way, this headcanon that the Pokedex is written by 10 year olds is proven false by the series itself.

2) You are also ignoring the concept of lore here. And you also have to remember that Pokemon's World has extremely advanced technology, as such finding this information is not hard. Also, just because some information is hyperbole =/= all information is hyperbole. And not knowing every researcher's name is not needed. Just the fact that there are researchers is more than enough. Nitpicking details and evidence doesn't change this.

4) But we don't take it as Word of God. If contradicted, it is not accepted. Simple as that. It's a good method of finding feats and lore, but obviously not every single entry is 100% legit. That's common sense."

I cut point 3 as it is irrelevant to your points.
 
Remind me how the Manga's entries are valid? Because even with an entire army of scientists, the Pokedex sometimes just outright contradicts what actually happens (Like spoink dying if he dosn't bounce at a certain rate despite being fully capable of stopping with no ill effects)
 
To answer your question, there are obviously some urban legends in there, like Kadabra. Kep states this himself. These only extends to the more ESP leaning Pokémon like Kadabra and Banette, and even then Banette was proven to actually have been legit.
 
Key word: Sometimes.

Sometimes =/= all, and Dragon already explained why the dex is not word of god. If an entry is contradicted, we don't use it. If its not contradicted, then we can use it. Simple as that.
 
Okay, so Spoink's entry is wrong. Doesn't mean the entire dex is wrong. That's a fallacious assumption.
 
If something is untrustworthy, you don't trust it.

If somebody told you something you knew was a lie for a fact multiple times, you wouldn't trust anything they said. If the scientists effed up Spoink's entry, who's to say they didn't eff up every other entry? Because almost none of the entries are backed up by feats.

Tyranatar being completely invincible to attack, for instance.

Pokemon Gold: "Its body can't be harmed by any sort of attack, so it is very eager to make challenges against enemies."

Since this entry is completely false, who's to say any entry for Tyranatar can be beleived, including the one that gives Tyranatar a 7-A feat?
 
Because information is not solely represented by it's lesser parts? This is absolutely no different than how we treat Databooks.

One thing being wrong doesn't mean the entire thing is wrong. You are grossly generalizaing the entire dex in and of itself being untrustworthy just because not every single dex entry is true (which is common sense) when that is not how this works and as said above, it's a fallacious assumption.
 
You mean the feat that also has documentations of the entire world map needing to be changed?

I love this gross generalization. Apparently, a few wrong sources makes the entire dex that has over thousands of entries unreliable. Just because some sources are wrong =/= all are wrong. This doesn't even take into account scientific errors from observation. What about the factual ones? By your logic, the fact that there are some factual dex entries makes the entire thing credible.
 
No, it isn't fallacious assumption. If a source gives you objectively wrong information, then you can't trust the source.

Example: The Earth is Flat, Vaccines cause Autism and International Talk Like a Pirate day is on 4/22

You don't know if that last one is true, but since the other two things are clearly false, there's no reason for you to beleive it's true.
 
Are you going to trust something from The Onion just because you think it's reasonable for it to be true?
 
This is literally a repeat of the last discussion. Also, I love how you use an example of 2 examples vs 1 when here we have like a select few examples vs thousands of others.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
This is literally a repeat of the last discussion. Also, I love how you use an example of 2 examples vs 1 when here we have like a select few examples vs thousands of others.
Click to expand...
This. Someone close this thread, its not anything different from the last thread where this was discussed in length and was greatly debunked.
 
"If they ****** up one thing, how do you know they didn't tuck up everything?"

Because that's a slippery slope fallacy, begging the question fallacy and the either-or fallacy.

You'd have to prove that those entries are incorrect, not make assumptions and fallacies, and it's obvious you can't, otherwise you wouldn't be making the fallacies above.
 
"The diamond-shaped crystals on its body expel air as cold as -240 degrees Fahrenheit, surrounding its enemies and encasing them in ice." ~Pokémon X

1b466737da3fdb0ca7a93542b4becfd6
 
We have no proof that any of is true. It's not like a dictionary where, yeah, most if it is probably true from irl context clues. The Pokedex dosn't have that. We never see an Absol or Alakazam use Precog, Trainers look into Shedinja's back constantly and are completely fine, I'm only using a select few because I don't have all day.

How many Pokedex entries are actually supported outside of the Pokedex?
 
The God tiers for one. Every, single one of them.

Groudon and Kyogre ruling the land and sea, Xerneas and Yveltal controlling life and death, and those are just quick ones from the very top of my head.

Also yeah, again, someone close this. Its not anything different than what was already debunked.
 
The Smashor said:
Example: The Earth is Flat, Vaccines cause Autism and International Talk Like a Pirate day is on 4/22
Click to expand...
All the arguments you just cited where proven wrong not because they were unreliable, they each are debunked using imperial evidence, so this is a false analogy.

Flat Earth is disproven merely by the Earth existing, Vaccines cause autism is debunked by scientific studies on the topics multiple times over, etc.
 
The real cal howard said:
Tyranitar has a hyperbole in being unable to be harmed. And even then it's got absurd defense.
Click to expand...
This honestly shouldnt even be an anti-argument against the dex in the first place due to how very obviously hyperbolic and NLF it is.
 
Some of the much more darker ones are going to obviously be contradicted, they will never appear in things such as the Anime as it's designed for kids and many would be mortified if a Spoink suddenly dropped dead while they eat their cereal on the morning.

Or if a Dusknoir suddenly ate someone's soul or a Shedninja absorbed their trainers souls, it's not the Pokemon parody series Omeger Rubyer.

The darkest we got was The murdered Marrowak but even then it doesn't go into detail and never showed up in the anime proper.

Other extremes like invulnerability are impossible to show in the series because of the power imbalance within the show and how they still need to be balanced to allow some victories, although, I will note the Dark Tyranitar from the 4Ever movie was shown to be incredibly powerful.
 
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