Mewtwo's Pokedex entries say again and again how Humans created it using mew's DNA as a basis, Human made it, not Mew
i agree with the end conclusion, just not with a step you used to get there
Both orbs were destroyed in the anime yet we see the primals later
i am talking about Mew mostly, not Lugia or ho oh
Yes, I know. I briefly brought up Mew in my post.
look man idk but the lore contradicts itself then. It is said Mew gave birth, that's what we know.
idk about Lugia being designed for what but here's the deal.
maybe, or maybe it just does it well. Additionally nobody has caught ho-oh outside of the MC of the game, meaning that it just isn't researched enough.
That's why I am using other series to argue for it since games often do not show enough about a species and only show us superficial stuff.
That's my argument though, we don't see many because it reproduces rarely. The same goes for Ho-oh. We do see ho-oh on many occasions but can we say it was the same ho-oh? Not really. Additionally while I do get your point about fiction, we just have no real reason to assume it isn't a species.
Lana's incredulity doesn't factor in here because Ash was with her at that time. There's a point made above about the orbs so I won't bother with it. Where are the groudons? It's in the name - in the ground.
Fair nuffThere are repeated statements on Pokemon being gender unknown, so I wouldn't call it game mechanics.
Gender unknown
bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net
- Pokémon Sun & Pokémon Moon: The Official Strategy Guide, p. 288; excerpt: "scientists have been unable to determine any gender for them"
- Pokémon Ultra Sun & Pokémon Ultra Moon: The Official Alola Region Strategy Guide, p. 359; excerpt: "no one's been able to determine their gender"
- Pokémon Black 2 and White 2: An NPC in the Floccesy Pokémon Center, with a gender-unknown Pokémon in the first slot of the party: "Your <Pokémon>... Its gender is unknown." (Japanese: 「あなたの <Pokémon>って…… 性別が わからないのね！」 "Your <Pokémon>... I can't tell what gender it is!")
k
"giving birth" can easily be in a metaphorical sense, as they did used his genetic material
again, they don't have any way to do that as they didn't had mew from all we can gatter from any depiction ever for Mewtwo's creation
the canon is not split in any way, they are still in the same canon as in a multiverse, just not cross scaling from their alternate reality versions as one needs reasoning to do that
buddy this entire thread is dedicated to eliminate that system what are you on about?
yeah i know, just clarifying that it isn't a canon split as you said it was
Man I think it's worth keeping in mind that people just say "canon split" because that's easier to say
Only in the movie and mystery dungeon for lugia and nothing implies creation
never said creation, even in ho-oh's case it wasn't creation. Also we are trying to unsplit the verse so anime is just as important as long as it isn't contradicted by game lore.
Do you agree with the overall canon reunification though?
giving your own take on it doesn't affect the idea of them being in the same multiverse though? Heck, it is already accepted even by you. From that part the only thing that remains is the legendary scaling which we're discussing and the normal pokemon scaling which as I've already reitarated is supported by the fact that pokedex entries are consistent across the verse.
There are actually a lot of contradictions between feats and scaling. In the manga we have something like 6-C Piloswine, right off my mind, and several legendary scaling with Zygarde scaling to Necrozma, several Mewtwo scaling and likely some normal mon vs legendaries. This is exacernated in the anime, where legendaries fight a lot with common mons and with each other, and there are probably other weird feats, mostly related to LS iirc, unless we go by the route of not considering trainer-exclusive mons are representative of their species, even if they aren't considered the strongest they can get.
Some things of course remain the same because they can't drift too much, but the remaining differences are still striking.
I briefly mentioned feats and scaling already, but with mechanics I can even just mention the wonky weaknesses and some moves changing, which while minor is still a thing. Then IQ skills from MD are a large part of it and you can argue wild mons being able to learn TMs on their own and likely some they can't get in the games. Surely there's something more, but these were also my first thoughts.
I'd instead argue there are some large differences in the personality of several characters and their stories. Some mons have difference origins and habits too, places are different, events too, lore etc... You can argue these don't affect too much what is of interest for us, but it's nonetheless a synonym of these universes changing by a lot.
nah
I am the one that made the calc and that thing was baseline High 7-A. Additionally Piloswine was a final evolution at the time which makes it fall under the ex-final evo pokemon like Ursaring. Additionally it was a large Piloswine and it was trained, which made it only viable for upscaling for actual final evos.
which we discussed how to fix. Legendary scaling isn't inconsistent between medias, it is inconsistent throughout those medias as well - it is inconsistency of pokemon as a whole rather than just media differences.
exacerbated
Bruh, you just ignored all the legendaries fighting mons in games and manga. We literally fight a legendary pokemon in every game with just our trained pokemon, most commonly having no access to more than 1 other legendary beforehand (oh and guess how we get that one? Fight it of course!). This is an issue throughout the entire franchise, not just specific parts of the franchise.
I see no issue with that, nothing suggests they aren't a species.
Cloning exists and nothing stops people from using pre-existing data to clone more. We have more than 2 mewtwos in the games as well.
and we agreed that MD is an outlier that we cannot use for common scaling and guess what? We don't, the only thing that came from it is a refernce in the stamina section.
They aren't striking enough to just ignore interscaling and the fact that pokemon have the same info on them written down by scientists.
wonky weaknesses are mistakes made in a few episodes of the anime that has 1100+ episodes. They aren't a consistent thing, they are a mistake made by episode makers. If this is considered an issue then we might as well start adding Missingno to the vsbattles wiki lmao.
It is minor and the moves mainly just change in appearance slightly. But guess what? They also change within their respective media as well. Psychic has been shown as a wave of psychic energy hitting your opponent and as lifting up an opponent with telekinesis and throwing them in the same anime and in the same season. Blast burn, overheat, all of these have the same situation. The games too - hyperbeam used to be weird rotating balls and now it is a beam of energy kamehameha wave style.
Most IQ skills are either removed or on outdated profiles, we already agreed that PMD is a spinoff and at most would just be its own verse.
this requires finding a TM and having enough intelligence to learn it. Finding TMs is easy in PMD because there's loot in dungeons, but it isn't easy to find them in the wild in the normal pokemon world. Additionally, only the player ever learns TM moves in PMD.
and I disagree with them thoroughly
That matters not because alternate timelines. In the anime there's an episode where ash meets an ash who is a crybaby, there's an episode where Goh meets a futuristic Goh. In the games rainbow rocket won and gained the legendary pokemon they were seeking. In the games the admins of Team Aqua and Team Magma are different people entirely in Omega Ruby and Alpha Saphire. Yet again, not only can it be explained away with alt timelines, it is also plenty clear that those inconsistencies are common inside the medias themselves.
prove it, the pokedex entries stay consistent.
alt timelines, yet again. How is that an argument? Just because it is different doesn't mean the pokemon magically become randomly weaker or stronger.
exactly, alt timelines. But you know what stays the same? Scientific observations about pokemon that are recorded in encyclopedias shared by all of society. They are consistent across all three main medias and most spinoffs.
We are proposing a semi-rescaling of legendary pokemon by enforcing the heirarchy of canons that was made by executor. We're also proposing a varies tier based on the fact that several of the legendaries are a proven species and you can encounter them at different levels of power.
call em then bro. I did my part, it's yall's turn
