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Pokémon Discussion Thread 8

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NeoZex6399 said:
This castle... Oh, of course! Necrozma's power to open Ultra Wormholes overflowed and resonated with intent of tremendous evil, twisting reality and causing this to appear![VAR 0114(002B)]
The vortex of power somehow...summoned the evil leaders, such as Ghetsis, from their worlds![VAR 0114(002B)]

It's all very interesting... Ah, I mean, quite a pain. I could put this power to much better use![VAR 0114(002B)]
Click to expand...
 
No it doesn't. A single statement that can be interpreted in different ways won't counter the fact that objectively, no universes were being fused in the game.
 
Sorry Julian. It didn't take me long to find the Youtube video . It could be higher since they were planning on taking over the Multiverse... But 7 is definitely the best bet.
 
Interpreted how? If its outright stated to be mixed, then it should be assumed to be that until something does against it.

Which, seemingly for now, doesn't.
 
Everything does? Literally all that happens is that the Castle is now at the Aether foundation and that the villains showed up. And Colress sends all the villains back to their own world before Giovannia was defeated. Wouldn't have happened if the universes were fused.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Sorry Julian. It didn't take me long to find the Youtube video . It could be higher since they were planning on taking over the Multiverse... But 7 is definitely the best bet.
Click to expand...
I'm here bro.
 
What ? If the worlds are mixing, how in god's name is it interpreted any farther than they are fusing together ? Mixing literally means " combine or put together to form one substance or mass. " . Unless you believe Colress is an idiot and doesn't know what he is talking about... Which he knew enough to know that each of them to adjust their dimensional frequencies to send them back.

And yes they weren't fused right away , but the scan implies they are fusing , so it implies Giovanni is affecting them with him being in another universe. No other implications are made. That was my point. Not that they are fused, but Giovanni is causing them to fuse .

 
We are told mixing. What we see: villains from other worlds are being pulled in. It's easy to interpret that "mixing" is just some parts of the worlds are being sent in others.

Anything beyond that, including Giovanni eventually fusing them together, is pure speculation.
 
If that is the case, then it would mean the worlds were still mixing together, which would allow the team leaders to be sent back to their worlds, as their being mixed, and it would still be a 2-C feat.
 
No it's not. Not at all. Unless large fractions of the universes were being mixed, this isn't anywhere near Tier 2. Not even High 3-A, considering that the best "feat" was the castle.
 
And did we get anywhere near entire universes being fused? You're extrapolating this feat to the maximum simply because of the word "mix".
 
Except nothing states or implies it is just the castle, but that the worlds themselves are simply mixing together, which that in itself is tier 2.

(Even though I don't debate this anymore, i'll use it as an example because its exactly the same here).

Naga from Bakugan is 2-C because he was fusing together the human universe and Vestroia universe into one, separate space-times.

If that is 2-C, then this would be as well.
 
And nothing shows it's anything near being more than the castle. You're running the word "mixed" at its literal highest interpretation, which is utterly unsupported by what was shown.

Even then, assuming Giovanni is 2-C on his own is ridiculous.
 
You mean the very quote that only talks about the villains being summoning? Which is all this supposed "mixing" of worlds does. Summons the villains. The word "mixing" was clearly alluding to elements of each worlds appearing in others. Not completely fusing the entirety of their space-time.
 
Firstly, going by what is "shown" regarding a game is kind of selling it short. And i'll use a pokemon example this time.

Dialga and Palkia were being used by Cyrus to remake the universe for him, yes? But according to game presentations, their distortions to reset the universe were only shown to, at best, spead all over sinnoh on screen. But would this be enough to sudddely downgrade the feat to tier 6? Of course not. And if it was, this feat wouldnt be in discussion to this day for them and tier 2 pokemon. We can't go off of visual game presentation to undermine a feat like this one when it isn't programmed to show anything like that. It would be like saying Kanto, Johto, Hoenn and the other regions don't exist in Gen 7 because only Alola is viewable to us on screen, which would be silly.

In addition, again for Bakugan, Vestroia and the human universe were never fused into one. In fact, according to on-screen display, all we see before Drago unfuses them is the sky being colored the same way as Vestroias. And even then, this was discussed and accepted as a 2-C feat. Being able to fuse the universes in any timeframe is 2-C just like this one.

It's not silly if its outright stated. It looks ridiculous but whats claimed was claimed and Colress making stuff up or being wrong, especially when researching this, is incredibly doubtful.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Not completely fusing the entirety of their space-time.
Click to expand...
Which is again, still a 2-C feat.

Being able to fuse different space-times in any timeframe, whether fully or not, is a 2-C feat. A lower one, but is one.
 
Except that your examples have statements that are undeniably about the entire universe being affected.

Like I said just above, this "mixing" only results in the villains beyond summoned, and this is the intent of this statement. Nothing about the space-time continuums being fused. Don't you think that Giovanni fusing these universes would be more of a threat than just Giovanni taking over the Aether Paradise? Because the universes being fused is stated literally nowhere else other than the worlds mixing, on which hinges all of your argumentation.

It is silly EVEN if it's outright stated.
 
And this doesnt? Unless the worlds aren't suddenly universes now, which of course is not true. Even for Bakugan, they say "worlds" being fused but we of course don't accept that as being anything less than tier 2. And they're "undoubtfully" because of statements coming from reliable sources, which Colress should certainly be apart of.

These are different worlds, separate from each other of course, being fused. Im fairly certain that means space-time is being fused along with it. And as far as "threat" goes, Aether P. was more of a threat because Gio wanted their research on UBs and the Ultra Wormhole so RR could travel to and take over all worlds. Besides, the universe's fusing definitely isn't on purpose or else Giovanni would have said so to the Player. The worlds mixing seems to be more of just an additional thing to do, along with RR aiming to control all worlds. Gio didn't even know they were fusing, Colress seemed to be the only one with data and research confirming it.
 
They are because there is no alternate interpretation to them.

Not denying that they are different worlds. I'm denying that "mixing" refers to literally fusing the universes. There are no logical reasons to assume that when it was always shown as only resulting in villains being summoned. I can mix two different cities without fusing them: By putting elements from one into another and vice-versa. I can mix two bowls without smashing the bowls themselves together. I can "mix" two universes without fusing the very space-time of the universes together. The latter being the highest interpretation you could get. And it's the one you're going for.
 
And what alternate interpretations are there here when these definitely are universes we are talking about?

But again, going off of whats shown in-game can be incredibly faulty as that would also be like saying that Dialga/Palkia's distortion is tier 6 for only being shown to spread throughout a region, Groudon and Kygore same thing, other legendaries same thing, all 7 regions not being in the same world because only Alola is viewable in the game, etc. The universes could easily just be mixing without needing to actually see it in the background as long as its confirmed. How can you even mix universes without actually fusing the very universes themselves?
 
Which wasn't there? Not one Ultra hole or anything was seen in the entire RR post-game except when RR first came to alola, which was a while before any of this happened.

The worlds were mixing without any use of portals.

EDIT: And even if there was A portal, that would at best be connecting Alola to one of the bossess universes, not all of them at once.
 
Your comparisons are extremely faulty when what we have for flimsy proof of the entire universes being affected is "mixed", something which isn't a synonym for fusing.

Obviously, the portal had nothing to do with it. Of course. It just showed up right before a bunch of villains came out from other worlds, yet it's just a coincidence.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Mixing literally means " combine or put together to form one substance or mass. " .
Click to expand...
This doesnt sound like a form of fusing? And not a synonym? Literally googling this before anything else lists it as one.
 
At this point, i'd like to hear other opinions on this, or at least from cal too to get more input.

For now I still think its a 2-C feat but if they're also against it, I'll concede.
 
That only works when talking about physical things. While yes, worlds are physical, what was clearly talked about AND shown is that what's inside the universes is being mixed.
 
You do realize that this would be an instant outlier for Giovanni, right? And that Necrozma's only contribution to it are the portals.
 
But you don't have to fuse ENTIRE WORLDS for them to be "mixed". A portal conecting the two I feel counts too. You have a brick road, then you open a portal to a stone road, then one to a dirt road. They are mixed,forming a singular road, but not fused in a literal sense that the three occupies the same space.
 
Now it being an outlier is a different story, which im fine with if everyone else pretty much agrees on that too. Though, like Seed brought up, didnt this Cyrus outright state Giovanni was the strongest team leader in RR? That would mean him being > Dialga/Palkia but again, that's also likely an outlier so eh.

Thoguh as far as Necro goes, it could be given something like that via reality wariping due the "twisting reality" stuff but im not sure.
 
With his team, but you're saying that Giovanni's sheer will is superior to the entire verse sans the CT and people who scales it.

Once again, giving Necrozma RW because of it is taking a world literally without looking at the context. What Necrozma does is just create portals.
 
Well, like I said, i'd like to see what others think about this stuff as well and if most are against it, I'll drop it and go against it as well.

And its the portals that would be causing reality to "twist". If this isn't RW, idk what would.
 
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