Pokemon - Arceus and his Plate abilities?

[Sniper670]

@Everything12 is fine with True form having everything

@Dereck03 has commented here, just not directly about his stance

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. An update then.

@DontTalkDT @Moritzva @Dereck03 @Everything12

Can all of you discuss what we should do here with each other please?

It also seems best if non-staff members stay out of said discussion for the time being.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I think DontTalk makes sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

This has gone long enough tbh, yemmas arguments have all been refuted as well as his counters.

for fairness, we can wait for lastmgs response to my counter.

 

[Sniper670]

This has gone long enough tbh, yemmas arguments have all been refuted as well as his counters.

So what are we going to do with the fact that the plates are mentioned to have the power of all things?

Are we just going to ignore that as if it doesn't exist?

 

[Sniper670]

We're seriously ignoring what the game says in favor of what DT says?

This wiki never ceases to amaze me

 

[Antvasima]

We're seriously ignoring what the game says in favor of what DT says?

This wiki never ceases to amaze me

Have you written a single post that contains all of your evidence, so our staff members have something concrete to evaluate?

If so, can you link to it please?

 

[Moritzva]

I think the current justification for Arceus having all powers in Pokemon should be expanded.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[Hasty12345]

So what are we going to do with the fact that the plates are mentioned to have the power of all things?

Are we just going to ignore that as if it doesn't exist?

We're seriously ignoring what the game says in favor of what DT says?

This wiki never ceases to amaze me

We know what the plates say, and they’re not supposed to be interpreted the way you are. The verse-wide context and showing of Arceus’ powers in action make that abundantly clear.

 

[Sniper670]

It's mentioned on the Plates that the powers of Plates are shared amongt Pokémon. Quote

うまれてくる ポケモン プレートの ちから わけあたえられる

Which translates to

The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon who come to this world

What relationship does the plates have with Pokémon? Their Typings. The Plates have the Essence of the Typings of Pokémon. Which allows Arceus to gain the power of said types. The Legend Plate has all Typings placed into one, and here's the statement about it:

We know what the plates say, and they’re not supposed to be interpreted the way you are. The verse-wide context and showing of Arceus’ powers in action make that abundantly clear.

English
A stone tablet imbued with the essence of all creation. When used on a certain Pokémon, it allows that Pokémon to gain the power of every type there is.

Chinese
蘊含著萬物之力的石板。對某種寶可夢使用，可使其獲得一切屬性的力量。

A stone slab that contains the power of everything. When used on a particular type of Pokemon, it will give it the power of all attributes.

French
Une tablette en pierre imprégnée d'une puissance suprême. Lorsqu'elle est utilisée sur un certain Pokémon, celui-ci obtient les pouvoirs de n'importe quel type.

A stone tablet imbued with supreme power. When used on a certain Pokémon, the Pokémon obtains the powers of any type.

Japanese
万物の力が宿った石盤。あるポケモンに使うと あらゆるタイプの力を得る。

A stone tablet in which the power of all things resides. When used on a Pokémon, it gains the power of all types of Pokémon

The Certain Pokémon, here, refers to the rightful bearer
This has been shown in the anime where Arceus was able to make an Ocean and straight up ignore natural laws. And the answer we got was "this is Arceus power"

Same as the manga, as Arceus was able to spam move after move corresponding to the type of Plates he wields.

 

[Sniper670]

We know what the plates say, and they’re not supposed to be interpreted the way you are. The verse-wide context and showing of Arceus’ powers in action make that abundantly clear.

Wow

Do we shouldn't interpret it how they are. Nice. That explains why you keep inventing your own interpretation rather than going with what is said on the plates

 

[Sniper670]

It's mentioned on the Plates that the powers of Plates are shared amongt Pokémon. Quote

Which translates to

What relationship does the plates have with Pokémon? Their Typings. The Plates have the Essence of the Typings of Pokémon. Which allows Arceus to gain the power of said types. The Legend Plate has all Typings placed into one, and here's the statement about it:









The Certain Pokémon, here, refers to the rightful bearer
This has been shown in the anime where Arceus was able to make an Ocean and straight up ignore natural laws. And the answer we got was "this is Arceus power"

Same as the manga, as Arceus was able to spam move after move corresponding to the type of Plates he wields.

@Antvasima

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

How are they supposed to be interpreted?

Tell us how

The plates change arceus’s type. Thats it.

 

[Antvasima]

@Moritzva @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03 @DontTalkDT @Everything12

What do you think about this?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/arceus-and-his-plate-abilities.141272/post-5046888

 

[Sniper670]

The plates change arceus’s type. Thats it.

In the manga, Arceus was able to use various moves corresponding to the type of Plates he wielded

Which compliments the notion that the plates literally has the power of everything

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

In the manga, Arceus was able to use various moves corresponding to the type of Plates he wielded

Which compliments the notion that the plates literally has the power of everything

He didn’t use any specific moves and used the basic functions that pokemon of every type can do.

 

[Sniper670]

He didn’t use any specific moves and used the basic functions that pokemon of every type can do.

But you just said all it does is change types and nothing else. Be clear

And no, it's not just basic, all this is supporting him having the power of all things

 

[Sniper670]

The plates change arceus’s type. Thats it.

This was you?

 

[Moritzva]

@Moritzva @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03 @DontTalkDT @Everything12

What do you think about this?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/arceus-and-his-plate-abilities.141272/post-5046888

No offense to anyone on this thread, but most points have been generally redundant and similar from the beginning. Having been here from the start, I have a general opinion on all this information, and I still think it would be best to relegate the Plates as supporting evidence (due to their reliance on interpretation).

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

But you just said all it does is change types and nothing else. Be clear

And no, it's not just basic, all this is supporting him having the power of all things

Arceus creating fire when he’s a fire type is not evidence of him being able to use every fire move, including signature moves, and has the ability of every fire type pokemon.

You are reaching.

 

[Sniper670]

Arceus creating fire when he’s a fire type is not evidence of him being able to use every fire move, including signature moves, and has the ability of every fire type pokemon.

He used Thunder, Surf in the manga

These are moves. You said he only changes type. This supports him having the powers

You are reaching.

Me?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

He used Thunder, Surf in the manga

These are moves. You said he only changes type. This supports him having the powers

That does not support him having every single power and ability.

 

[Sniper670]

That does not support him having every single power and ability.

Because the Plate says so

And it debunked what you said "He only changes type, that's it"

And supports the statement being made about the plates that it allows him to use the powers of all types of Pokémon

 

[Pikaman]

That does not support him having every single power and ability.

Stop moving the goalposts. “He only changes types” became “he only used the general powers everyone belonging to the types has” became “he never used every single power and ability.” If that was your point from the start just make it instead of wasting Yemma’s time with weaker versions of an argument you have in your back pocket

 

[Hasty12345]

Yes Yemma, the plates have the ability to manipulate the attributes they represent… no one is refuting that in any capacity…

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Stop moving the goalposts. “He only changes types” became “he only used the general powers everyone belonging to the types has” became “he never used every single power and ability.” If that was your point from the start just make it instead of wasting Yemma’s time with weaker versions of an argument you have in your back pocket

Thats not me moving goal posts.
This entire thread is about the profiles giving Arceus every ability and moveset and power of every pokemon and non-pokemon based on the plate. Go read the OP.

 

[Sniper670]

Yes Yemma, the plates have the ability to manipulate the attributes they represent… no one is refuting that in any capacity…

OP says all it does is allow him to change type and nothing more. Olay
1. The Plate says he has all powers
2. He used various moves corresponding to the plates he was given. Surf, Thunder, and Rock Tomb

So 2. Supports 1.

And you were wrong from the start about it only allows him to change types and nothing else.

 

[Sniper670]

And, what you invented just now "it's just basic attacks" and manipulate elements", oh boi

What is the element of the Fist Plate, or Blank Plate?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

OP says all it does is allow him to change type and nothing more. Olay
1. The Plate says he has all powers
2. He used various moves corresponding to the plates he was given. Surf, Thunder, and Rock Tomb

So 2. Supports 1.

And you were wrong from the start about it only allows him to change types and nothing else.

You’re grasping at straws because I’ve already stated that the plates change arceus’s type, and because it changes his type, he can use the GENERAL powers of each type. I even placed that in my sandbox of the plate revision that you saw and complained about. Nice try.

 

[Hasty12345]

I personally don’t care if Arceus gets every Pokémon move, I fail to see the practical difference in flamethrower and fire blast or water gun and surf from a being such as Arceus. Arceus’ flamethrower should make the strongest fire type move from the strongest fire type look like a ember from a torchic.

I primarily take issue with Arceus getting every Pokémon ability and physiological ability due to the plates. He demonstratively doesn’t have sturdy, klutz, truant, slow start, speed boost, blaze, and every other ability that’s not multitype.

 

[Sniper670]

I personally don’t care if Arceus gets every Pokémon move, I fail to see the practical difference in flamethrower and fire blast or water gun and surf from a being such as Arceus. Arceus’ flamethrower should make the strongest fire type move from the strongest fire type look like a ember from a torchic.

I primarily take issue with Arceus getting every Pokémon ability and physiological ability due to the plates. He demonstratively doesn’t have sturdy, klutz, truant, slow start, speed boost, blaze, and every other ability that’s not multitype.

Yes. We could rid those. But that still doesn't refute the fact the plates have said powers. So the what should be proposed is a note or a seperation into its own seperate thing. I don't see how he'd lose it on account of the Plates is where they're all coming from.

But, it's not as if we ever use those in a vs match. They're also not on his profile atm

 

[Sniper670]

You’re grasping at straws because I’ve already stated that the plates change arceus’s type, and because it changes his type, he can use the GENERAL powers of each type. I even placed that in my sandbox of the plate revision that you saw and complained about. Nice try.

What is the general powers of Fighting Types or Psychic Type or Normal Type

Please, refrain from placing arbitrary limitations when there's none.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

What is the general powers of Fighting Types or Psychic Type or Normal Type

Please, refrain from placing arbitrary limitations when there's none.

“Arceus can do what Arceus has been shown to do” is not an arbitrary limitation.

 

[Hasty12345]

Yes. We could rid those. But that still doesn't refute the fact the plates have said powers. So the what should be proposed is a note or a seperation into its own seperate thing. I don't see how he'd lose it on account of the Plates is where they're all coming from.

But, it's not as if we ever use those in a vs match. They're also not on his profile atm

If Arceus the literal deity of the verse does not have those powers with the plates and there’s no evidence a Pokémon has ever held the plates and gained every ability (again, I’m using ability here to denote the Pokémon term, not to be confused with Pokémon moves) then the plates don’t have them period.

 

[Sniper670]

“Arceus can do what Arceus has been shown to do” is not an arbitrary limitation.

Plates says he has all the powers of Pokémon. And he demonstrated usage of said powers

Lore>>>>headcannon/arbitrary limitations of yours

 

[Sniper670]

If Arceus the literal deity of the verse does not have those powers with the plates and there’s no evidence a Pokémon has ever held the plates and gained every ability (again, I’m using ability here to denote the Pokémon term, not to be confused with Pokémon moves) then the plates don’t have them period.

The Rightful bearer of the Plate draws from the Plate it holds. So once again, this argument of yours won't work

Plus this isn't even arbitrary, give the plates the powers it has given to Pokémon, simple

 

[Hasty12345]

The Rightful bearer of the Plate draws from the Plate it holds. So once again, this argument of yours won't work

Plus this isn't even arbitrary, give the plates the powers it has given to Pokémon, simple

I remember that one time Arceus got too hot and turned to steam and reformed itself from water vapour when it cooled down because he has the same abilities as Cryogonal…

 

[DontTalkDT]

What do you think about this, DontTalk?

Problem is that the Eternal Battle evidence is nothing but "Arceus should have all abilities in the verse due to having created all beings in the verse". It is nothing but the supreme/creator deity having all abilities argument that I'm fairly certain is rejected on a general level.
Taking that as the main argument hence just doesn't work.

Which is why I don't think @Moritzva's position of using the as main argument is feasible unless we first have a debate that generally allows argumentation like that to be used for all creator entities.

(Heven't been able to find the last thread on the topic sadly. Although I'm also fairly certain it was discussed before)

@Moritzva @Maverick_Zero_X @Dereck03 @DontTalkDT @Everything12

What do you think about this?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/arceus-and-his-plate-abilities.141272/post-5046888

We have seen all the quotes already. Nothing new is added. I remain of the opinion that what the plates try to say is that they contain all the type energy. Not that they are the source of every Pokémon move that type energy could possibly be used for. (or species-specific abilities for that matter)