Pokemon - Arceus and his Plate abilities?

[Sniper670]

Because pokemon are inherently born with a type. It's just how the world works.

Yep. They're born from Fragments of Arceus, which are the Typings, of which the powers are shared across the multiverse. Including Flame Plate, being the power of defeated giant and being the source of Fire Type

And no, before you say it, the plates aren't the essences of types, or contain all the essences of type. They simply imbued with some.

And again, there is no evidence or statement that says the plates decide what powers a being gets. That's your headcannon.

The powers of Plates are shared amongst all Pokémon. Arceus has the power of all things

So, a Pokémon it dkesnr matter whether the Pokémon will be born centuries from now, you're getting your powers from plates and Arceus has them from the get go

That's not true at all. Avatars don't get all the powers of their creators. Are you going to argue Palkia has all the powers of Arceus?

Again, the creation and management of the multiverse is done through Avatars.
The plates, being the origin of all Pokémon powers and being fragments of Arceus, the Pokémon, not his True Form, allows him useage of every power there is.

As mentioned on the plates

And I know my translation is more accurate because the word, pokemon only comes up once:

legend plate banbutsu no riki ga yadok ta ishiban . aru pokemon ni tsukau to arayuru type no riki wo eru .

Power refers to Essence here.

What's your point?

Let me explain it to you then: During the Battle Reverie. The Player can use an Arceus. The Arceus the player uses has the legend plate. That means the "Arceus" that is running the battle Reverie, doesn't have the legends plate when it is creating/summoning pokemon.

There are millions of legend plates on account of every single copy of the game being its own cosmology.

Are you kidding me now? There are millions of Legend plates and you think Arceus doesn't possess one of his own?

Are you kidding me? I'm just going to default to what Pikamin said.

Suree

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Yep. They're born from Fragments of Arceus, which are the Typings, of which the powers are shared across the multiverse. Including Flame Plate, being the power of defeated giant and being the source of Fire Type

They are not born from Arceus. They are born form the universe.

The Giants power are infused with inside all the plates. Not just the fire one. The hikers book, doesn't mention any specific plate.

The powers of Plates are shared amongst all Pokémon. Arceus has the power of all things

So, a Pokémon it dkesnr matter whether the Pokémon will be born centuries from now, you're getting your powers from plates and Arceus has them from the get go

Except the pokemon born before the plates. And the plates do not give pokemon their powers.

Again, the creation and management of the multiverse is done through Avatars.
The plates, being the origin of all Pokémon powers and being fragments of Arceus, the Pokémon, not his True Form, allows him useage of every power there is.

Where is it said that the plates are the origin of all pokemon powers? You just made that up. Pokemon existed before the plates.
And they are the fragments of the universe. Stop staying they are the fragments of Arceus, that is incorrect for the lore from the games which we are using.

What's your point?

That you're using wrong and misleading statements to support your arguments.

There are millions of legend plates on account of every single copy of the game being its own cosmology.

Are you kidding me now? There are millions of Legend plates and you think Arceus doesn't possess one of his own?

WOW

Now you're going to claim that the Arceus running the battle reverie is using a legends plate from another game? You know you have to present evidence to back that up.

 

[Sniper670]

I think we're done here

As Moritzva said, The plates which is the origin of all Pokémon power, supports Eternal Battle evidence brought up by Cal.

 

[Antvasima]

I think we're done here

As Moritzva said, The plates which is the origin of all Pokémon power, supports Eternal Battle evidence brought up by Cal.

What do you think about this, DontTalk?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I think we're done here

As Moritzva said, The plates which is the origin of all Pokémon power, supports Eternal Battle evidence brought up by Cal.

You haven't been able to accurately counter any of DT or my arguments.

 

[Sniper670]

You haven't been able to accurately counter any of DT or my arguments?

I don't need to. I've said all I needed to say, same as you

At this point, we're just repeating the same argument and it's just going to cluster the already clustered thread

 

[Hasty12345]

I think we're done here

As Moritzva said, The plates which is the origin of all Pokémon power, supports Eternal Battle evidence brought up by Cal.

Your points have been thoroughly refuted. We are done here, but you probably won’t like the result.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Anyways,

My arguments against the plates still stand.

And my other arguments against the two arguments:

1. Arceus is the creator of the pokemon unvierse therefore he can use the powers of all beings in the pokemon universe
2. Arceus can create/summon pokemon in the battle reverie so he can use their powers.

1. Arceus created the universe, but he didn't directly create all pokemon. Pokemon organically form in the universe. The form in nature and through enviroment. They naturally evolve through natural selection and can go extinct. They can be man-made or form under man-made cirucmstance. It makes no sense to claim Arceus has the power of all pokemon when they form independent to him and on their own. They are not his aspects or his avatars or extensions of his being.

2. A. Hoopa and Unown can summon/create pokemon too. That doesn't mean they have the power of all the pokemon they summon/create.
B. Just because you can summon a being, doesn't mean you inherently have that beings power.

It should also be noted:

During the Battle Reverie, the player can use an Arceus and that Arceus has the Legends Plate. That means the "Arceus" that's running the Battle Reverie is creating pokemon without the plates, meaning that the plates have nothing to do with the creation of pokemon.

 

[Sniper670]

Your points have been thoroughly refuted. We are done here, but you probably won’t like the result.

You're the same people in disagree. You still won't change your mind if my points are valid or not

And you're terribly outvoted

 

[Sniper670]

Anyways,

My arguments against the plates still stand.

And my other arguments against the two arguments:

1. Arceus is the creator of the pokemon unvierse therefore he can use the powers of all beings in the pokemon universe
2. Arceus can create/summon pokemon in the battle reverie so he can use their powers.

1. Arceus created the universe, but he didn't directly create all pokemon. Pokemon organically form in the universe. The form in nature and through enviroment. They naturally evolve through natural selection and can go extinct. They can be man-made or form under man-made cirucmstance. It makes no sense to claim Arceus has the power of all pokemon when they form independent to him and on their own. They are not his aspects or his avatars or extensions of his being.

2. A. Hoopa and Unown can summon/create pokemon too. That doesn't mean they have the power of all the pokemon they summon/create.
B. Just because you can summon a being, doesn't mean you inherently have that beings power.

It should also be noted:

During the Battle Reverie, the player can use an Arceus and that Arceus has the Legends Plate. That means the "Arceus" that's running the Battle Reverie is creating pokemon without the plates, meaning that the plates have nothing to do with the creation of pokemon.

All these arguments have been refuted.

Stop spamming the thread with unnecessary arguments

 

[Sniper670]

At the end of the day. Nothing changes, it was a pointless thread afterall

 

[Hasty12345]

All these arguments have been refuted.

Stop spamming the thread with unnecessary arguments

You’ve sent the same plate description a bajillion times and you’re calling someone else out for “spamming unnecessary arguments”

 

[Thelastmlg]

And you guys keep bringing game balance/mechanics as if they matter in any way, shape or form and keep focusing on the "creator" argument that we aren't even using, so we are even.

Is not our fault y'all are somehow looking at the clear as hell descriptions and connections between types and moves, all to focus on a weaker support argument or using game balance decisions.

"Pokemon are not aspects of arceus, they form naturally independent of him" ignores the plates literally determining their powers on birth, their powers being shared and pokemons and humans being the same in the heart before the creation and lake trio came, plus being everywhere and all encompassing means everyone is part of it.

"Hoopa and unowns" idk about unowns but hoopas uses portals, it doesn't create pokemon out of nowhere so he is not an argument, also the battle reviere argument is bleh anyway.

"Arceus is creating pokemon without the legend plate" dude, the plates EXISTENCE is what gives their types and powers, they are not literally popping pokemon into existence, their essence is what determines it, pokemon are born normally, but the powers they have are assigned by the plates even when they are with arceus, he has them nearly all the time, when he doesn't is usually intentional, and even when he doesn't, you don't see a plate around them.

You think that just because he gave you the plate as a gift to use on a piece of him, as itself said, the plate suddenly stopped doing it's job and is now just a coolcstone to amp a arceus avatar? You realize that, as the plate power is shared and determines the pokemon birth, which is something STATED, not implied or headcanoned like you did, but actually said in-game, pokemon would probably lose their powers?

Is your word vs the plates'

 

[Thelastmlg]

And you guys keep bringing game balance/mechanics as if they matter in any way, shape or form and keep focusing on the "creator" argument that we aren't even using, so we are even.

Is not our fault y'all are somehow looking at the clear as hell descriptions and connections between types and moves, all to focus on a weaker support argument or using game balance decisions.

"Pokemon are not aspects of arceus, they form naturally independent of him" ignores the plates literally determining their powers on birth, their powers being shared and pokemons and humans being the same in the heart before the creation and lake trio came, plus being everywhere and all encompassing means everyone is part of it.

"Hoopa and unowns" idk about unowns but hoopas uses portals, it doesn't create pokemon out of nowhere so he is not an argument, also the battle reviere argument is bleh anyway.

"Arceus is creating pokemon without the legend plate" dude, the plates EXISTENCE is what gives their types and powers, they are not literally popping pokemon into existence, their essence is what determines it, pokemon are born normally, but the powers they have are assigned by the plates even when they are with arceus, he has them nearly all the time, when he doesn't is usually intentional, and even when he doesn't, you don't see a plate around them.

You think that just because he gave you the plate as a gift to use on a piece of him, as itself said, the plate suddenly stopped doing it's job and is now just a cool stone to amp a arceus avatar? You realize that, as the plate power is shared and determines the pokemon birth, which is something STATED, not implied or headcanoned like you did, but actually said in-game, pokemon would probably lose their powers?

Is your word vs the plates

 

[Dereck03]

Please don't twice same comments.

 

[Chariot190]

Please don't twice same comments.

Given how close the comments were together, it's almost 100% just a accidental double post due to lag, internet issues or something else.

 

[Dereck03]

That may be the case, anyway it is better to let him know so that he deletes it.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

"Pokemon are not aspects of arceus, they form naturally independent of him" ignores the plates literally determining their powers on birth, their powers being shared and pokemons and humans being the same in the heart before the creation and lake trio came, plus being everywhere and all encompassing means everyone is part of it.

The plates do no such thing and you need to prove that.

"Hoopa and unowns" idk about unowns but hoopas uses portals, it doesn't create pokemon out of nowhere so he is not an argument, also the battle reviere argument is bleh anyway.

Notice I said summon/create because it's not specific if Arceus summons or creates pokemon for the reverie.

"Arceus is creating pokemon without the legend plate" dude, the plates EXISTENCE is what gives their types and powers, they are not literally popping pokemon into existence, their essence is what determines it, pokemon are born normally, but the powers they have are assigned by the plates even when they are with arceus, he has them nearly all the time, when he doesn't is usually intentional, and even when he doesn't, you don't see a plate around them.

This leads to two problems:

1. If pokemon remotely draw their power from the plates, why is that when Arceus physically doesn't have the plates in possession he can't use it's power?
2. The essence of the types exist all throughout the environment. The plates only hold some essence in them. Why should pokemon get their typing from plates when they can just get it from the universe? Also we already have canonical evidence that the environment that Pokémon are in can change their types.

You think that just because he gave you the plate as a gift to use on a piece of him, as itself said, the plate suddenly stopped doing it's job and is now just a cool stone to amp a arceus avatar?

Yes. It is canonically shown that when Arceus doesn't have a plate he can't use it's powers and is severally weakened and limited. The main description of the plate says it's purpose is to allow Arceus to change types.

You realize that, as the plate power is shared and determines the pokemon birth, which is something STATED, not implied or headcanoned like you did, but actually said in-game, pokemon would probably lose their powers?

The game never once says that the power of the plates determines the pokemon birth. I don't have the human translated version of the japanese text, but I do have the translation for all the other languages of the same line. Here they are?

English: “The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon.”

Spanish: "Al Pokémon surgido del Huevo, las tablas agracian con su poder"

Translation: "To the Pokémon that emerged from the Egg, the plates grace with their power"

French: Le pouvoir des plaques fut conféré au Pokémon qui naquit de l’Œuf.

Translation: The power of the plates was conferred on the Pokémon that was born from the Egg.

Italian: Il Pokémon appena nato poté attingere al potere delle lastre.

Translation: The newborn Pokémon could tap into the power of the plates.

German: Als das Pokémon aus dem Ei schlüpfte, wurde ihm die Kraft der Tafeln zuteil.

Translation: When the Pokémon hatched from the egg, it was given the power of the tablets.

These all refer to the power of the plate given to a very specific pokemon (they all use definitive articles), which is obviously Arceus.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Actually I have to amend one of my arguments. Arceus that you fight in the battle reverie does have the legend plate and can change type along with the user's Arceus.

 

[Sniper670]

The plates do no such thing and you need to prove that.

The Plates are the Essence of the Typings of the Multiverse. In case we're missing what "Essence" means, let's have a look:

the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, which determines its character.

Notice I said summon/create because it's not specific if Arceus summons or creates pokemon for the reverie..

Eternal Battle Reverie is a mode the player can access through their dreams

Everything is made up.

This leads to two problems:

1. If pokemon remotely draw their power from the plates, why is that when Arceus physically doesn't have the plates in possession he can't use it's power?

The powers that are from the plates, is what allows the Typings to exist and allows Pokémon to fit into a type and exercise power

It's not a gigantic mana pool that Pokémon are 24/7 connected to. The spells are given to them via the spell book, which is own by Arceus

---

2. The essence of the types exist all throughout the environment. The plates only hold some essence in them. Why should pokemon get their typing from plates when they can just get it from the universe? Also we already have canonical evidence that the environment that Pokémon are in can change their types.

Plates are fragments of Arceus. It doesn't matter where they are in the multiverse. It doesn't lose that position.

Now, Flame Plate, which is the essence of fire, becomes a new Typing where Pokémon are born with flame properties and can use its powers

The power of everything existing within the plates is the biggest evidence for it. It doesn't matter where you're born, whether you're artificial or not, Arceus has your power and it's because of plates that you're allowed to exercise such powers at all.

Yes. It is canonically shown that when Arceus doesn't have a plate he can't use it's powers and is severally weakened and limited. The main description of the plate says it's purpose is to allow Arceus to change types.

Because the Plates are fragments of himself, and the lore explicitly makes it clear he placed his powers into them.
One of the evidence which points to the multiverse being literally the extension of Arceus

The game never once says that the power of the plates determines the pokemon birth. I don't have the human translated version of the japanese text, but I do have the translation for all the other languages of the same line. Here they are?

English: “The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon.”

Spanish: "Al Pokémon surgido del Huevo, las tablas agracian con su poder"

Translation: "To the Pokémon that emerged from the Egg, the plates grace with their power"

French: Le pouvoir des plaques fut conféré au Pokémon qui naquit de l’Œuf.

Translation: The power of the plates was conferred on the Pokémon that was born from the Egg.

Italian: Il Pokémon appena nato poté attingere al potere delle lastre.

Translation: The newborn Pokémon could tap into the power of the plates.

German: Als das Pokémon aus dem Ei schlüpfte, wurde ihm die Kraft der Tafeln zuteil.

Translation: When the Pokémon hatched from the egg, it was given the power of the tablets.

These all refer to the power of the plate given to a very specific pokemon (they all use definitive articles), which is obviously Arceus.

Now now. Don't leave out context here. Now here are the two translations with priority

Japanese (Katana) 生まれてくる　ポケモン プレートの力　わけあたえられる

Translation : Pokémon born with the power of the plate

うまれてくる ポケモン プレートの ちから わけあたえられる

Translation :The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon who come to this world

Rough Translation : The ability to assign the birth of a Pokémon plate to a specific child.

English : The powers of Plates are shared among Pokémon

So what the other translations are saying is that Pokémon are deriving their powers from the plates. They're born from plates and wielding the power of them.

Which makes sense, looking at how the power of defeated giants is the Flame Plates upon which the multiverse Fire Type Pokémon are born to harness its power

 

[Sniper670]

Everything is confirmed here. There's absolutely no reason for this CRT to have gone on for this long. In fact this, I posted much earlier but was conveniently ignored in favor of dragging this.

Yes we don't automatically assign creator gods the powers of their verse without statement/context

Chinese
蘊含著萬物之力的石板。對某種寶可夢使用，可使其獲得一切屬性的力量。

A stone slab that contains the power of everything. When used on a particular type of Pokemon, it will give it the power of all attributes.

French
Une tablette en pierre imprégnée d'une puissance suprême. Lorsqu'elle est utilisée sur un certain Pokémon, celui-ci obtient les pouvoirs de n'importe quel type.

A stone tablet imbued with supreme power. When used on a certain Pokémon, the Pokémon obtains the powers of any type.

Japanese
万物の力が宿った石盤。あるポケモンに使うと あらゆるタイプの力を得る。

A stone tablet in which the power of all things resides. When used on a Pokémon, it gains the power of all types of Pokémon

I'd like to hear your interpretation of this from New members/staff who'd want to give their input on this. As it's buried behind tons of walls of text

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT and @Moritzva :

Can the two of you discuss what we should do here with each other please?

It also seems best if non-staff members stay out of said discussion for the time being.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, what do you think about this?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/arceus-and-his-plate-abilities.141272/post-5046377

 

[Hasty12345]

Everything is confirmed here. There's absolutely no reason for this CRT to have gone on for this long. In fact this, I posted much earlier but was conveniently ignored in favor of dragging this.

Yes we don't automatically assign creator gods the powers of their verse without statement/context






I'd like to hear your interpretation of this from New members/staff who'd want to give their input on this. As it's buried behind tons of walls of text

You're conveniently leaving out the fact it's only referring to Pokemon types, and not their innate physiological abilities Arceus very clearly doesn't have.

 

[Sniper670]

You're conveniently leaving out the fact it's only referring to Pokemon types, and not their innate physiological abilities Arceus very clearly doesn't have.

You're conveniently leaving out the part where it has the power of all things, allowing him to use the powers of all types of Pokémon

You keep bringing up physiology, forgetting the fact the the Fist Plate is literally martial arts that Arceus physiology will not allow to happen, but that doesn't contradict the fact that he has access to that plate and can theoretically use that

 

[Antvasima]

You're conveniently leaving out the fact it's only referring to Pokemon types, and not their innate physiological abilities Arceus very clearly doesn't have.

You're conveniently leaving out the part where it has the power of all things, allowing him to use the powers of all types of Pokémon

You keep bringing up physiology, forgetting the fact the the Fist Plate is literally martial arts that Arceus physiology will not allow to happen, but that doesn't contradict the fact that he has access to that plate and can theoretically use that

Well, I am not knowledgeable enough about the subject to know what is accurate here.

 

[Hasty12345]

You're conveniently leaving out the part where it has the power of all things, allowing him to use the powers of all types of Pokémon

You keep bringing up physiology, forgetting the fact the the Fist Plate is literally martial arts that Arceus physiology will not allow to happen, but that doesn't contradict the fact that he has access to that plate and can theoretically use that

I'm not leaving out anything, read your own evidence, it's not saying what you're claiming it is.

 

[Sniper670]

But it does. Literally the first statement compliments the second statements, connecting the two and confirming that indeed, Arceus has the power of all things and can use the powers of everything

Japanese
万物の力が宿った石盤。あるポケモンに使うと あらゆるタイプの力を得る。

A stone tablet in which the power of all things resides. When used on a Pokémon, it gains the power of all types of Pokémon

 

[Hasty12345]

You keep bringing up physiology, forgetting the fact the the Fist Plate is literally martial arts that Arceus physiology will not allow to happen, but that doesn't contradict the fact that he has access to that plate and can theoretically use that

Like seriously dude, just read your own comment.

Arceus physically cannot do something doesn't contradict the fact he could theoretically do it? Like dude are you fr?

 

[Sniper670]

Like seriously dude, just read your own comment.

Arceus physically cannot do something doesn't contradict the fact he could theoretically do it? Like dude are you fr?

Okay. Essentially, how does that contradict the fact that he has access to said powers?

I brought up the Fist Plate. I said theoretically because if he really wanted to use it, there are several ways, like assuming the form of a Pokémon with a convenient enough body to allow to happen

What you said, still does not contradict the fact he has access to the powers. Whether his physiology will allow is irrelevant because tbe Plates can allow him several ways to use it if he wanted, as y'know, it has the power of everything

 

[Hasty12345]

Okay. Essentially, how does that contradict the fact that he has access to said powers?

I brought up the Fist Plate. I said theoretically because if he really wanted to use it, there are several ways, like assuming the form of a Pokémon with a convenient enough body to allow to happen

What you said, still does not contradict the fact he has access to the powers. Whether his physiology will allow is irrelevant because tbe Plates can allow him several ways to use it if he wanted, as y'know, it has the power of everything

No other pages on the wiki allow the mental gymnastics you're using to justify this blatant misrepresentation of evidence. You keep saying "ArCeUs HaS tHe PoWeR oF eVeRyThInG" when the full quotes and context, along with what's shown, implied and logical demonstrate Arceus only has the power of every type.

 

[Sniper670]

No other pages on the wiki allow the mental gymnastics you're using to justify this blatant misrepresentation of evidence.

I'm the one misinterpreting evidence?

Plates says he has all powers, you're the one saying otherwise

You keep saying "ArCeUs HaS tHe PoWeR oF eVeRyThInG" when the full quotes and context, along with what's shown, implied and logical demonstrate Arceus only has the power of every type.

I mean, this has been the argument. He has the powers of every type of Pokémon

 

[Sniper670]

First statement connects to the second

And you take the second statement alone, leave out the first and I'm the one misinterpreting evidence??

FR?

 

[Hasty12345]

I'm the one misinterpreting evidence?

Plates says he has all powers, you're the one saying otherwise

I mean, this has been the argument. He has the powers of every type of Pokémon

you're interpreting "type" to mean "species" by the looks of it, which is blatantly ignoring in-verse context.

 

[Sniper670]

you're interpreting "type" to mean "species" by the looks of it, which is blatantly ignoring in-verse context.

What's the Species without the Typing?

You think Pikachu species can use lightning without Electric Type?

You seem to have forgotten that powers of Plates are what is being shared amongst Pokémon. They're all being sourced from Plates, which has the essence of all types

 

[Hasty12345]

First statement connects to the second

And you take the second statement alone, leave out the first and I'm the one misinterpreting evidence??

FR?

It's ironic you're saying this, when you can only arrive at the conclusion Arceus has all these abilities he's physiologically incapable of when you ignore the whole context....

 

[Sniper670]

It's ironic you're saying this, when you can only arrive at the conclusion Arceus has all these abilities he's physiologically incapable of when you ignore the whole context....

Tell that to the Fist Plate which is literally martial arts

 

[Hasty12345]

Tell that to the Fist Plate which is literally martial arts

If this is the responses you're gonna start giving then staff just need to vote so this thread can end.

 

[Sniper670]

Staff had voted this years ago. In fact the only reason this thread is still alive is that most knowledgeable staff on Pokémon have lost interest in the verse, and they cemented their stance since the canon split

This CRT would've ended many days ago

 

[Antvasima]

So which staff members other than Moritzva and DontTalk have commented here previously exactly?