Pizza Man fights the entirety of Final Fantasy

[RedReaper616]

I’m talking about regen and immortality negation. Where’s the layer on that?

That’s not a reactive evolution feat. That’s just him withstanding certain elements.

irrelevant as he resists high godly negation and immortality negation.

That doesn’t sound like an evolution, that sounds like Yamato resisting the illusion. And even if it is, Dante’s fighting an entire army of beings that evolve.

Anti-Magic isn’t resistance negation. That’s just power nullification, especially if he needs the Beastheads to resist it.

none of these remotely stops 2-A BFR, Fusionism on contact, or any spell in general that negates resistance.

The same logic still applies, as I stated. He has had his regeneration negated and evolved past that level so it takes a higher form to work against him. See Urizen putting him in a coma first part of the game to being able to regenerate while fighting Vergil, (his equal), at the end of the game.

Dante's abilities increase in potency as well, as I stated before, so high godly negation either wouldn't work thanks to Dante's layers, or Dante would grow in power via on of his evolutionary abilities so they do work.

Yamato had nothing to do with it. Vergil's mind was caught. He evolved to resist it and then cut through the illusion. Demonic Energy is the source of his powers.

I never stated it was resistance negation? I stated Dante has examples of evolving to multiple stimuli pretty much instantly and used this as an example. So he could evolve to be immune to resistance negation.

The cloning is pretty much a non factor given he could just kill all of them repeatedly, evolve to neg, etc. You still haven't stated how good his evolution is, because if it's not on Dante's level it might be a non-factor.

Further, uh, Dante's able to destroy souls, which are accepted as 9D HDE Range from the new CRT, so he has at least like 9D Range.

Also, does the Creator even have any way to survive Dante's passives?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The souls in final fantasy lack the concept of spacetime, but too bad its not on the profile. If Dante has 9D soul manipulation which he actually uses in character, then this would be a stomp

So is fear manipulation Dante's only useful passive here?

 

[Theglassman12]

That’s not regen negation, that’s just knocking someone out.

prove the high godly negation evolves, because there’s no evidence I see that it applies to regen negation.

cutting through it with Yamato. The sword known for cutting through shit that can’t be cut normally. Still sounds like a Yamato feat.

you need to prove it works against resistance negation as it’s a completely different ability than just having a higher tier.

He can’t kill them all because Creator resists his negation. I already said it analyzes a being and evolves them to the next level as a result. Which happens pretty fast given the crystals immediately use an evolution state of a being right away, and again Fusionism on contact screws Dante over.

That doesn’t stop him from being unable to come back and being stuck in a void realm that erases him.

you mean the paralysis and fear hax? The thing he can resist with no problem and doesn’t result in an insta kill? Yes he has resistance against that.

 

[RedReaper616]

That’s not regen negation, that’s just knocking someone out.

prove the high godly negation evolves, because there’s no evidence I see that it applies to regen negation.

cutting through it with Yamato. The sword known for cutting through shit that can’t be cut normally. Still sounds like a Yamato feat.

you need to prove it works against resistance negation as it’s a completely different ability than just having a higher tier.

He can’t kill them all because Creator resists his negation. I already said it analyzes a being and evolves them to the next level as a result. Which happens pretty fast given the crystals immediately use an evolution state of a being right away, and again Fusionism on contact screws Dante over.

That doesn’t stop him from being unable to come back and being stuck in a void realm that erases him.

you mean the paralysis and fear hax? The thing he can resist with no problem and doesn’t result in an insta kill? Yes he has resistance against that.

What? Dante was completely defeated in the first whole part of the game and left in a coma. Dante can regenerate from being completely erased, but being hit by Urizen in a way that negates his regeneration wouldn't be regeneration negation...but him being knocked out?

Demon tiers. Low tiers have mid godly, mid have high godly, and high have an enhanced version of that, which is itself proves at least one layer between mid and high, and there are more given that each high tier Demon he faces are usually stated to be superior. (And this isn't including the fact that Dante also scales above Sparda).

Also, looking at the profile, it looks like he only has Mid-Godly from scaling to Gil and Zeromus, so Dante should be able to handily cancel his regen.

For example, Dante sealed Mundus, but could kill Void Mundus, Argosax, and Urizen. Each of which were stronger and enhanced in comparison in pretty much every way.

You still haven't elaborated if the Creator has layers at all.

Next level doesn't really clarify much, though. I've outright stated how Dante's abilities work. Dante gains abilities, resistances, more raw power, as welll as an increase in skill and ability potency. Does the Creator do any of that? Does it give new powers? New resistances? Is it just a generic Dragon Ball amp where it only increases potency/raw power?

Dante's layers also scale from other Demons. For example, ONLY Demons Lords resist this.



Dante scales above that and thus has that resistance. Mind you, this is without accounting for the fact Dante was immune to Chen's foresight.



As well as his fate being immune as his heritage as a Demon, meaning the Beastheads manipulation of Fate wouldn't work on him.



In DMC4, he was immune to the Dice Room, which binds the fate of it's victims.



Mind you, Nero, who is also part Demon, was trapped in there. (Meaning he should've resisted it if layers didn't exist, based on the fact the Beastheads didn't work on Dante).

Dante has layers, which scales to most of his abilities based on how DE works as a universally applied energy source. (Demonic Energy is used for all of those abilities and all of those characters, similar to how Beerus could logically pull a Buu because he scales above Buu with the exact same ability source and function).

 

[Theglassman12]

That's not a negation feat at all. Give me scans that Urizen made him unable to heal his wounds. Otherwise it's just Urizen being strong enough to knock him out.

No they don't have higher than high godly, every demon that's mid tier and higher has the same regen level unless you can provide evidence that they have better than conceptual regen.

Cancelling out regen being irrelevant to a guy who clones a lot at the start and resists having his regen and immortality being negated.

That doesn't answer my question on it being layered. That just tells me that Dante didn't have the strength to beat Mundus at the time, and resorted to sealing.

Resistance negation ignores layers, it's completely irrelevant as the entire point of resistance negation is it ignores resistance entirely. You need proof he resists resistance negation, otherwise he's screwed.

It evolves his being to not have weaknesses of his previous state, slap that onto an army that never ends and he's not going to take him down easily.

That resistance doesn't help against precog that works on type 2 and 4 acausals. That's above dante's range which needs evidence.

that's a resistance to Fate manipulation, not precognition that works on type 2 and 4 acasuals, not only that but the creator doesn't remotely have fate manipulation so the feat is irrelevant in this fight.

 

[RedReaper616]

That's not a negation feat at all. Give me scans that Urizen made him unable to heal his wounds. Otherwise it's just Urizen being strong enough to knock him out.

No they don't have higher than high godly, every demon that's mid tier and higher has the same regen level unless you can provide evidence that they have better than conceptual regen.

Cancelling out regen being irrelevant to a guy who clones a lot at the start and resists having his regen and immortality being negated.

That doesn't answer my question on it being layered. That just tells me that Dante didn't have the strength to beat Mundus at the time, and resorted to sealing.

Resistance negation ignores layers, it's completely irrelevant as the entire point of resistance negation is it ignores resistance entirely. You need proof he resists resistance negation, otherwise he's screwed.

It evolves his being to not have weaknesses of his previous state, slap that onto an army that never ends and he's not going to take him down easily.

That resistance doesn't help against precog that works on type 2 and 4 acausals. That's above dante's range which needs evidence.

that's a resistance to Fate manipulation, not precognition that works on type 2 and 4 acasuals, not only that but the creator doesn't remotely have fate manipulation so the feat is irrelevant in this fight.

1) Okay, then I can just use Chen. In which he literally evolved to gain the ability to neg regeneration. Mind you, moments prior Chen had him completely beaten before this.



2) Demon Physiology Page literally states “everything on a higher level,” and also states Devil Trigger enhances all abilities to a higher level. Mind you, the “normal/basic” Demons has this form of regeneration as a scan. (This answers several of your points, which is why I keep reiterating this. Check the pages. Dante HAS the stuff the cancel and fight against a threat like this).



And another specific Demon Dante can kill is supposed to beyond that via THIS.



It connects itself to its prey so that even if it’s killed, normal Demon style, DEAD, it will revive and resurrect anyway to kill its prey. Dante has layers. That’s not including the fact Demon King Regen > Mid tiers, the fact that Dante’s regen and negation scaled over the High Tiers of the verse, etc.

3) So his evolution is specifically tailored to remove weaknesses whereas Dante’s basically gives him the ability to kill whatever he’s up against and survive whatever is being thrown at him. Which again brings me to earlier.

How is he going to actually last long? Say he removes Dante’s resistances. Dante will just evolve to where it doesn’t work. Dante has consistently evolved to things that should kill him immediately just as quickly so he’ll never be affected again, or higher than his threat. (Like when he evolved to survive the Demon World, an infinite 4D realm/Low 2-C to 2-C structure and then was completely fine).

Sure, the Creator can evolve back, but he’s not evolving to become stronger/more potent. He’s evolving to make himself lack weakness. Dante on the other hand evolves to lack weakness AND destroy his opponent at the same time, and given the Creator needs a scan where Dante just…does by existing (because Sparda is ******* broken), I don’t see how this lasts longer than that confrontation.

Dante is a Type 4 whose fate cannot be bound and who literally was invisible to foresight, but I concede the point given he’s not a Type 2. This doesn’t change the fact Dante can just evolve to become immune anyway though, or simply evolve to neg.

That’s the underlying issue here. Dante either has the layers to resist or if he doesn’t the attack has to instantly reduce him to complete and total nothingness, because if not he just gets back up and can then love tap the Creator out of commission via any one of his still viable haxes.

 

[Theglassman12]

That entire list of scans doesn't tell me anything about regen negation, just that Beryl's shot nullifying the beastheads' power led him to his demise.

"Everything on a higher level" needs evidence that the potency is stronger. Without any scans that it's actually superior than the mid tier demons, they're at the same level.

All but the weakest demons do not care what they lose.

The scan tells me that every single demon ever that's not weak has this, this doesn't remotely say the stronger demons have better regens than the ones that are weaker, but not the weakest demons dude.

That's not a layer though. Having layers mean you're able to kill beings that previously resisted the ability to have their immortality negged before. That demon lacks it, Argosax and Mundus lacks it, hell not even the sparda kids have it, so the creator can easily neg Dante's immortality and render him mortal.

You need to prove that it works on stuff that bypasses resistance in the first place, saying it works on anything with no scans to back it up for the more extreme case is a NLF.

removing weaknesses is being stronger and more potent, that means it makes you harder to take down. Again, try to argue that it would work on the creator when the dude literally touching Dante is all he needs to win because he fuses with dante on contact.

Again, that's fate manipulation that works on type 4, not precognition that works on type 2 and 4. The former is an ability the creator doesn't remotely have, and the latter is above DMC's paygrade due to what kinds of beings it's able to affect.

Reducing a fighter to nothingness is not needed to win a fight. You can incapacitate them with other hax and still win. The creator has these hax that does work on him so yeah, Creator can incap him, literally one touch is all that's needed. Slap an army that clones endlessly and the Maenads who each have summons and magic to spam with no hesitation and Dante's gonna have an uphill battle.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

That entire list of scans doesn't tell me anything about regen negation, just that Beryl's shot nullifying the beastheads' power led him to his demise.

"Everything on a higher level" needs evidence that the potency is stronger. Without any scans that it's actually superior than the mid tier demons, they're at the same level.

The scan tells me that every single demon ever that's not weak has this, this doesn't remotely say the stronger demons have better regens than the ones that are weaker, but not the weakest demons dude.

That's not a layer though. Having layers mean you're able to kill beings that previously resisted the ability to have their immortality negged before. That demon lacks it, Argosax and Mundus lacks it, hell not even the sparda kids have it, so the creator can easily neg Dante's immortality and render him mortal.

So, for starters:

Demon monkey in vol 1 is capable of shrugging off Dante attacks, even those that mutilate him then dante immediately attacks and the demon can't regenerate.

Gilver, cripples Dante and finds himself unable to regen, his own attacks have no effect on gilver despite blowing chunks off from him moments earlier. Kills him with E&I.

Alice injures him, his human form, majin form immediately stops that but retains the injuries in his human form. Later on he takes the attacks from the sins and after going into a pseudo DT their attacks stop working and his injuries heal.

Cerberus gets blown off in 3 and he is stronger than those above, going by the demonic powah stuff he should as well scale above them (more so considering his status as gatekeeper).

Dante and vergil square off, Dante is dying due to Vergil attacks, he awakens DT and the injuries stop being a problem, even regenerating immediately his arm cut in half.

Dante and vergil square off again, both are tired but heal immediately without any problems.

Dante and Vergil fight Arkham, Dante alone can't defeat him and is about to lose while arkham is just fine meaning he resist Dante stuff.

The brothers combined overwhelmed him and left injuries that stay when he loses sparda's powah.

Dante and Vergil square off again, Dante cuts Vergil in half and he is injured for a while, we know now thanks to PoC he healed before squaring off with Mundus but didn't recover his full strength.

PoC Dante (a way stronger Dante) can't leave lasting injuries in Pluto even in DT, likewise he can heal from Pluto attacks.

DMC1 Dante lands a fatal blow on Nelo/Vergil killing him and keeping him down for 10 years despite both being stronger and Nelo having previous feats of tanking this.

Dante goes to fight Mundus, only with the power of Sparda he is able to fatally wound him.

Mundus comes back to the human world, they square off and Mundus is seen healing in the tendril-like-form (only if you destroy the carcass/statue exterior), Dante can't kill him resorting to sealing.

Anime Dante blows Sid to pieces, thinks its over but Sid regenerates and stomps him leaving Dante injured, later that night Dante kills him with just 1 shot from his pistols. and heals just fine a while later.

Chen, takes Dante's hits and regenerates back without any problem while Dante loses both of his arms. An enraged Dante one shots chen, killing him and then the beastheads, he heals a little after that.

Argosax, (mundus equal and they couldn't kill each other) lost his wings and was killed by Dante

Void Mundus (idk if he even has regen but stronger than OG mundus) is killed by Dante rather casually

DMC4, weapons made to fight Demons and the like are useless against Dante.

DMC5, Dante gets one shot by urizen, wounded and healing for 1 month.

Dante defeats urizen, his injuries aren't enough to stop him from reaching the fruit.

Dante defeats urizen with the fruit, a way stronger Urizen is left with a ton of wounds and injuries and about to be killed by Dante, unable to heal.

Dante and Vergil square off again, no one can deal lasting damage to the other. There is some tweet that supposedly says they will keep on fighting for a very long time cuz no one can kill the other.



Basically, they have a ton of layers and the creator won't be able to put a dent on his immortality/regeneration not to mention they grow mid combat to counter this specific stuff.

You need to prove that it works on stuff that bypasses resistance in the first place, saying it works on anything with no scans to back it up for the more extreme case is a NLF.

You mean like the above? I can bring scans if you want although you already know all of them

removing weaknesses is being stronger and more potent, that means it makes you harder to take down. Again, try to argue that it would work on the creator when the dude literally touching Dante is all he needs to win because he fuses with dante on contact.

So, what Dante does but worse, good to know.

That and BFR are his only wincos but him touching Dante is a very low chance when not even Mundus could do that and Mundus was all around Dante at the time bombarding him with a ton of random stuff. It's like trying to avoid water while being at the bottom of the ocean, this guy won't be able to touch him.

Again, that's fate manipulation that works on type 4, not precognition that works on type 2 and 4. The former is an ability the creator doesn't remotely have, and the latter is above DMC's paygrade due to what kinds of beings it's able to affect.

Fair enough on the fate stuff, his precog resistance is stupid tho, 2 layers of resistance (that he got in the middle of combat), from resisting this: As a higher ranking Guardian, the Demon Lord gave him a portion of his power so he could see into the past, the present, and even countless futures that were considered impossible. His one eye allows him to see the destiny of anyone in the human and demon worlds, and even beyond. An ability that only demon kings and Dante resist.

From resisting this (in the middle of combat mind you): https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Beastheads_(Devil_May_Cry)?so=search, a weapon that can easily see Demon kings and events beyond time and space.

Idk whats better, watching the future of beings that don't have a future or watching futures that are considered impossible and then way more and later an ability even more powerful than this.

Reducing a fighter to nothingness is not needed to win a fight. You can incapacitate them with other hax and still win. The creator has these hax that does work on him so yeah, Creator can incap him, literally one touch is all that's needed. Slap an army that clones endlessly and the Maenads who each have summons and magic to spam with no hesitation and Dante's gonna have an uphill battle.

He has no hax that works on him, the resistance neg gets countered by his own reactive evolution and his stupid layers, slap that with him not being touched by the creator + only needed to love tap everyone to win and Dante is going to have a walk in the park

 

[RedReaper616]

That entire list of scans doesn't tell me anything about regen negation, just that Beryl's shot nullifying the beastheads' power led him to his demise.

"Everything on a higher level" needs evidence that the potency is stronger. Without any scans that it's actually superior than the mid tier demons, they're at the same level.


The scan tells me that every single demon ever that's not weak has this, this doesn't remotely say the stronger demons have better regens than the ones that are weaker, but not the weakest demons dude.

That's not a layer though. Having layers mean you're able to kill beings that previously resisted the ability to have their immortality negged before. That demon lacks it, Argosax and Mundus lacks it, hell not even the sparda kids have it, so the creator can easily neg Dante's immortality and render him mortal.

You need to prove that it works on stuff that bypasses resistance in the first place, saying it works on anything with no scans to back it up for the more extreme case is a NLF.

removing weaknesses is being stronger and more potent, that means it makes you harder to take down. Again, try to argue that it would work on the creator when the dude literally touching Dante is all he needs to win because he fuses with dante on contact.

Again, that's fate manipulation that works on type 4, not precognition that works on type 2 and 4. The former is an ability the creator doesn't remotely have, and the latter is above DMC's paygrade due to what kinds of beings it's able to affect.

Reducing a fighter to nothingness is not needed to win a fight. You can incapacitate them with other hax and still win. The creator has these hax that does work on him so yeah, Creator can incap him, literally one touch is all that's needed. Slap an army that clones endlessly and the Maenads who each have summons and magic to spam with no hesitation and Dante's gonna have an uphill battle.

Dante's regeneration is automatic and is tied to his Demonic Energy. Which is being negated by Anti-Magic Bullets. His regen and powers both return thanks to his evolutionary capacity.

I mean, if you have an issue with the accepted Demon Physiology page, go crazy, but until then it's valid. I also mentioned how Devil Trigger is stated to enhance all abilities and being a higher tier Demon automatically grants the previous abilities at a higher level-Still making his regen above that. You also didn't debunk that specific Demon who regeneration is > the scan you're talking about.

Speaking of the Demon Physiology Page "Immortality Negation (Types 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8) : Can bypass the immortalities of Demons some of which can make connections with their pry, and as long as that prey exists they will come to life should they get killed." Combined with the inherent layers of the tiers of Demons + Devil Trigger + A Character like Nero's arm no longer regenerating back before he gained his DT and regenerated (ie. a LAYER) he's pretty much in the clear here. As said before.

Demons are inherently immune to the abilities of the Beastheads, which includes complete power null. Dante also adapted to the Anti-Magic Bullets.



I didn't say that that's needed to win a fight. I'm saying if Creator wants to keep DANTE SPECIFICALLY down it has to SOMEHOW bypass all of his defenses, layers, resistances, and the like and be something GOOD ENOUGH to KEEP HIM DOWN long enough for him to not IMMEDIATELY get up, EVOLVE, and then NEG all of the Creator's attacks and abilities thanks to his CRACKED evolutionary capacity.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Tony_di_bugalu is any of these supposed to be regen negation feats or reactive evolution feats?

 

[RedReaper616]

Technically, they're both. They're examples of characters either displaying better regeneration, better negation, and evolving to gain such.

@Tony_di_bugalu is any of these supposed to be regen negation feats or reactive evolution feats?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@Tony_di_bugalu is any of these supposed to be regen negation feats or reactive evolution feats?

Both, Dante can't do the thing and RE kicks in allowing him to negate the regen or he does the thing and we go to the next feat

 

[RedReaper616]

Anyway, I vote Dante for the reasons I proposed as well as the Creator's real lack of any options to win here. Imo it's a stomp solely because the options I can see Dante not negating aren't enough to beat him faster than his evolution will counter, or can't take him out before his evolution says "**** You," and never works on him again. And the ones that CAN are basically impossible when Dante has items like Smell of Fear, (an item that gives him 3 instant dodges, which is really irrelevant considering his his Instinctual Reactions that allow him to dodge attacks from those he can't even percieve, so the Creator will basically never touch him), his abilities to keep the Creator at range/unable to attack anyway, or straight up can END the Creator through any one of his viable abilities like his layered Fear Manip. (was able to cause Demons to fall in terror by just using his real name, and Demons passively have their own fear aura and aura resistance, can resist the fear manip. of the Demon World), and Dante massively scales above that feat, or via his Devil Trigger (where he can engulf enemies in Darkness so powerful beings return to their basic state in terror), or another item he has, the Book of Demons which can absorb and seal, as well as manipulate, beings. (It can absorb Souls, which are basic 9 Dimensional forms, [only accepted as range rn, but it's also heavily layered considering it's far more powerful than previously established soul sucking items], and Souls in DMC contain things massively important to your existence like Mind, Memory, the Body and Information of your ancestors, as well as your Name, which contains the source of their Power and Concept, losing your Name can allow you to be bent by one who can manipulate them [like Sparda, who sealed names onto the Temen-ni-gru and forced them to protect the Demonic Tower], and Names also predate the Creation of the Demon World itself, which existed before even the Human Realm), etc. etc.

And even if the Creator DOES land a blow, as I reiterated before, nothing I've seen will end Dante before Dante can get up and become immune and end the Creator. (Short Fusionism, but as I said earlier the Creator landing an attack at all seems basically impossible.)

 

[Theglassman12]

@Tony_di_bugalu gilver is a deconstruction feat, not a RE or regen negation feat.

Sounds more like DT having better healing than RE which is consistent in the series.

That doesn't remotely explain RE at all here. Just basic regen negation stuff.

That's not RE, that's just Rebellion unlocking its powers by Dante being stabbed which he himself said in 5.

Pluto doesn't tell me anything here for RE or regen negation as Pluto doesn't have anything for regen negging.

V literally explains how him suffering defeat after defeat his body was falling apart, that's not a RE feat, just a weakness for Vergil being Nelo as constant beatdowns will break his body apart.

Again, not reactive evolution whatsoever, just Dante being strong enough to beat Mundus.

If Mundus is healing then he didn't neg his regen, he just beats him, simple as that.

Beryl's anti magic bullets doesn't really line up here with Dante's feat.

Ok, don't see reactive evolution here, you need to have actual statements that he evolved from something prior.

Dante fighting beings who have demonic weapons doesn't tell me anything about reactive evolution. Just a resistance feat at best.

Urizen knocking out dante isn't a regen negging feat, that's just him being strong enough to knock him out, again bring scans for Urizen actually stopping his abilities to heal.

Dante beating Urizen isn't a Reactive evolution. He gets a power boost with the blood from the Qliphoth Tree and a boost with Devil Sword Dante, unless you wanna tell me that unlocking another form is Reactive evolution then anyone who can transform has RE by that logic.

There's no mention of immortality negation resistance on Dante's page or demon physiology at all so his immortality is getting negged easily, and The creator has layered negation with his immortality and regen negation.

Every single final fantasy spell starts by affecting the target, there's no way dante's dodging something that is literally affecting his body the moment the spell is casted. Also dodging attacks is irrelevant to a guy who has precognition so Dante dodging isn't going to help him in the long run.

Again, lack of feats for the precog working on type 2 and 4 acausals, meaning Dante will be affected by it.

Fusionism on contact and 2-A BFR works on Dante, the former he literally needs a single touch and the latter any one of his endless clones can spam and throw him into the Void where he'll lose.

@RedReaper where does it remotely mention evolution or adaptation? Nothing in the scans remotely say that.

Devil trigger is Dante tapping into his demonic powers, that's it, that's not a higher tier regen than high godly, and you still haven't remotely debunked the fact the scan says ALL but the weakest demons can heal on this level.

That's still resisted by the creator which isn't going to help. And those other points is just regen negation, not immortality negation.

Creator does not need to bypass his resistance to win when one of his go to moves, Dante doesn't resist, meaning it's an instant win the moment Creator touches him.

Anyways I vote for Creator, him endlessly cloning, resisting having his clones be un duplicated, and regen and immortality being negated, on top of severel negation of resistances with magic and other abilities he uses in character that will overwhelm dante will seal the deal.

 

[JED]

Creator FRA

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

well i still think that dante can take this fight so dante fra though

 

[Imaginym]

I'm voting for The Creator as well, for the reasons TheGlassman12 gave.
(Also, wasn't this Dante vs all of Final Fantasy on Fun & Games before?)

 

[RedReaper616]

@Tony_di_bugalu gilver is a deconstruction feat, not a RE or regen negation feat.

Sounds more like DT having better healing than RE which is consistent in the series.

That doesn't remotely explain RE at all here. Just basic regen negation stuff.

That's not RE, that's just Rebellion unlocking its powers by Dante being stabbed which he himself said in 5.

Pluto doesn't tell me anything here for RE or regen negation as Pluto doesn't have anything for regen negging.

V literally explains how him suffering defeat after defeat his body was falling apart, that's not a RE feat, just a weakness for Vergil being Nelo as constant beatdowns will break his body apart.

Again, not reactive evolution whatsoever, just Dante being strong enough to beat Mundus.

If Mundus is healing then he didn't neg his regen, he just beats him, simple as that.

Beryl's anti magic bullets doesn't really line up here with Dante's feat.

Ok, don't see reactive evolution here, you need to have actual statements that he evolved from something prior.

Dante fighting beings who have demonic weapons doesn't tell me anything about reactive evolution. Just a resistance feat at best.

Urizen knocking out dante isn't a regen negging feat, that's just him being strong enough to knock him out, again bring scans for Urizen actually stopping his abilities to heal.

Dante beating Urizen isn't a Reactive evolution. He gets a power boost with the blood from the Qliphoth Tree and a boost with Devil Sword Dante, unless you wanna tell me that unlocking another form is Reactive evolution then anyone who can transform has RE by that logic.

There's no mention of immortality negation resistance on Dante's page or demon physiology at all so his immortality is getting negged easily, and The creator has layered negation with his immortality and regen negation.

Every single final fantasy spell starts by affecting the target, there's no way dante's dodging something that is literally affecting his body the moment the spell is casted. Also dodging attacks is irrelevant to a guy who has precognition so Dante dodging isn't going to help him in the long run.

Again, lack of feats for the precog working on type 2 and 4 acausals, meaning Dante will be affected by it.

Fusionism on contact and 2-A BFR works on Dante, the former he literally needs a single touch and the latter any one of his endless clones can spam and throw him into the Void where he'll lose.

@RedReaper where does it remotely mention evolution or adaptation? Nothing in the scans remotely say that.

Devil trigger is Dante tapping into his demonic powers, that's it, that's not a higher tier regen than high godly, and you still haven't remotely debunked the fact the scan says ALL but the weakest demons can heal on this level.

That's still resisted by the creator which isn't going to help. And those other points is just regen negation, not immortality negation.

Creator does not need to bypass his resistance to win when one of his go to moves, Dante doesn't resist, meaning it's an instant win the moment Creator touches him.

Anyways I vote for Creator, him endlessly cloning, resisting having his clones be un duplicated, and regen and immortality being negated, on top of severel negation of resistances with magic and other abilities he uses in character that will overwhelm dante will seal the deal.

1) Gilver has high godly regen. Dante killed him. That’s negation of high godly regeneration. What?

2) Majin DT > Normal DT, and Majin DT couldn’t regenerate but later Pseudo DT DID.

3) You completely ignored how Cerberus is scaled to have better regeneration and Dante negated it, but sure, let’s go with that.

4) You admit DT has better regeneration than ordinary Dante, but then say that this doesn’t work as a layer when I pointed this out earlier.

5) Vergil and Dante confrontations consistently show their regeneration and what stage they’re at. Dante had his fingers cut through and was fine, but after a lengthy battle was stabbed into like the beginning of game cutscene. Regeneration Negation. Very clear cut. Further, Vergil has identical regeneration and in the final battle a mere bisection took him out.

6) Pluto is one of the higher tier Demons, and can kill weaker demons. Thus he has his own set of Regeneration Neg. and Immortality Neg.

7) I don’t know how this slipped by you. Vergil has been “dead” ever since Dante “defeated,” him in DMC1, which was…er…around TEN YEARS ago from DMC5. That’s pretty much as clear cut regeneration negation considering Vergil and Nelo Angelo for that matter had instantaneous Regeneration like Dante. Further, even if this was the case, it’s STILL NEGATION.

8) Beryl’s bullets negate Magic (Demonic Energy) and all the abilities that come with it, as stated before. Dante evolves to gain resistance to them as seen later.

9) I’ll let the Mundus parts slide by, but the fact of the matter is Mundus has high godly so killing him is a demonstration of negation. Moving on,

10) It’s stated that weapons made to fight Demons negate Regeneration so Humans can finally kill the Creatures of the Demon World. Dante no selling them means he has resistance.

11) Dante has high godly regeneration. Urizen hitting Dante with “enough force to knock him out,” doesn’t nearly begin to cover what happened there considering it took a month to get back up from and regenerate from that stomp. That’s massively underselling what happened there. Furthermore, the last two essentially state “Urizen, a being with high godly, couldn’t Regenerate from the injuries placed on him.” Negation AND layers.

12) Dante didn’t get an amp from the Tree. That was URIZEN. Dante only got one from the DSD. Dante 1 amp from the DSD, stomped Urizen, Urizen was able to escape despite his got an amp…and then Dante stomped Urizen. Again. And this time Urizen couldn’t regenerate.

12) We KNOW it’s his evolution based on the scan stating Dante evolves and then had him evolve to resist the effects of the Demon World. (Which explains away any and all abilities Dante may experience at the behest of gaming development.)

13) Why would I debunk…what? “All but the weakest have this Regeneration.” Dante qualifies as a high Tier Demon (likely higher given he kills those on a regular). Then his DT gives him that Regeneration but BETTER. So I don’t see the error in logic here. Further, Dante scales above the OTHER SCAN YOU KEEP IGNORING, where it has Regeneration better than ordinary Demons, in which case you can kill it’s high godly regeneration and it’ll come back anyway to hunt it’s prey.

14) Already stated that the Creator’s chances of touching Dante are near zero, which again makes that wincon pretty much unreliable. The 2-A BFR is a solid wincon, but I doubt he can pull it off before Dante literally does ANYTHING since he can kill the Creator.

15) You haven’t brought up anything that can allow the Creator to get past Dante’s passives like layered Fear Manip, which I mentioned. Or the Book of Demons. As far as I can tell, the Creator has no chance at firing off the BFR if he is too terrified to even attack Dante.

 

[RedReaper616]

I’d also like to point out that votes don’t count if their logic has been bunked, and for all intents and purposes, they HAVE.

While there is a burden of proof on us to provide when we make claims about Dante, there is an equal burden of proof to have evidence to refute them. And no notion of that has been made.

Only questioning of previously established abilities Dante has that are accepted on his profile, which me and Tony have repeatedly stated are present for viewing to clear up any misconceptions, which was ignored or written off as “Not noticeable enough,” when there is a sizable list of abilities and feats there that could’ve been checked at any time, which was reiterated multiple times.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I’d also like to point out that votes don’t count if their logic has been bunked, and for all intents and purposes, they HAVE.

that's not how it works. it just means if they still vote otherwise the logic of the other side isn't convincing enough for the other.

not counting votes is equivalent to denying them a vote simply because you feel you have debunked it. you can ask why they still vote otherwise and try to convince them again but you can't take away their ability to vote

so the viewing party can decide whether your claims are enough to convince them whether someone debunked it or not. and decide themselves whether your counterargument is convincing enough for them to change side

Also as a matter of fact some of your arguments have loose ends but I'm not voting yet

 

[RedReaper616]

that's not how it works. it just means if they still vote otherwise the logic of the other side isn't convincing enough for the other.

not counting votes is equivalent to denying them a vote simply because you feel you have debunked it. you can ask why they still vote otherwise and try to convince them again but you can't take away their ability to vote

so the viewing party can decide whether your claims are enough to convince them whether someone debunked it or not. and decide themselves whether your counterargument is convincing enough for them to change side

Also as a matter of fact some of your arguments have loose ends but I'm not voting yet

Interesting. Hm. I’ll have to find the thread, but I remember someone saying that and settling the matter of votes in this way.

Edit: Found One. They discredited a Goku Vote in Goku Vs Lightning Farron because Mafuba was an inviable wincon, requiring prep and a seal Goku can’t make.

Also, could you highlight the “loose ends” so I may address them? I want to cover all my bases here.

 

[Theglassman12]

@RedReaper Gilver has limited mid godly regen where he needs to possess certain things, not high godly so that's not really impressive.

So it's an inconsistency, again prove that there's actual adaptation involved instead of PIS.

Regen negation isn't RE. Again give me actual statements it evolves.

That's a completely different context, Dante's powers was sealed with Rebellion, and it unlocked when stabbed inside of him.

That's not regeneration negation, Dante lost enough stamina and wasn't strong enough, if it's actual regen negation he would've had a gaping chest wound on him and it wouldn't heal, THAT'S regen negation.

Not on his page and never shown so irrelevant right now.

Again, V who is a part of vergil explains him suffering defeat after defeat his body was worn down, and it's Nelo, not Vergil, who at this point is a different being.

Where? That's not remotely mentioned that he adapted to the bullets.

Resistance, not Reactive evolution, massive difference here.

High godly in DT, not in normal human form, where he lost his DT because rebellion broke and he ends up being knocked out, that's still not regen negation as opposed to urizen being strong enough to do that.

Read the files for Dante, it's stated he got the amp in the tree.

What scan exactly? Can you provide them?

It doesn't remotely mention the higher tier demons have better regen than mid tiers, it says they ALL have this trait so it's nothing special to mid tiers and higher so why would it be a higher tier regen?

Again you ignore the resistance to immortality negation on Creator's page plus regen negation resistance so Dante's not killing him. And again, Precog on type 2 and 4 acausals makes Dante not gonna dodge his shit and the spells cast inside of him, he's not dodging something inside of his body.

What's the extent of Dante's fear manipulation? Just scaring someone? Because if that's the case then whoopdie do it ain't helping him against a guy who'd just see him as a threat and start doing anything and everything to win.

Also no that's not how this works, by this logic your votes do not count because I debunked them.

 

[RedReaper616]

@RedReaper Gilver has limited mid godly regen where he needs to possess certain things, not high godly so that's not really impressive.

So it's an inconsistency, again prove that there's actual adaptation involved instead of PIS.

Regen negation isn't RE. Again give me actual statements it evolves.

That's a completely different context, Dante's powers was sealed with Rebellion, and it unlocked when stabbed inside of him.

That's not regeneration negation, Dante lost enough stamina and wasn't strong enough, if it's actual regen negation he would've had a gaping chest wound on him and it wouldn't heal, THAT'S regen negation.

Not on his page and never shown so irrelevant right now.

Again, V who is a part of vergil explains him suffering defeat after defeat his body was worn down, and it's Nelo, not Vergil, who at this point is a different being.

Where? That's not remotely mentioned that he adapted to the bullets.

Resistance, not Reactive evolution, massive difference here.

High godly in DT, not in normal human form, where he lost his DT because rebellion broke and he ends up being knocked out, that's still not regen negation as opposed to urizen being strong enough to do that.

Read the files for Dante, it's stated he got the amp in the tree.

What scan exactly? Can you provide them?

It doesn't remotely mention the higher tier demons have better regen than mid tiers, it says they ALL have this trait so it's nothing special to mid tiers and higher so why would it be a higher tier regen?

Again you ignore the resistance to immortality negation on Creator's page plus regen negation resistance so Dante's not killing him. And again, Precog on type 2 and 4 acausals makes Dante not gonna dodge his shit and the spells cast inside of him, he's not dodging something inside of his body.

What's the extent of Dante's fear manipulation? Just scaring someone? Because if that's the case then whoopdie do it ain't helping him against a guy who'd just see him as a threat and start doing anything and everything to win.

Also no that's not how this works, by this logic your votes do not count because I debunked them.

1) My mistake. I presumed Gilver had High Godly.

2) …? Prove the…what? He performed the feat. He killed Cerberus, at least permanently removed two heads. Do I just pretend it didn’t happen…?

3) He evolved to gain that tho. As seen with Chen, who could regenerate (and Dante himself couldn’t) until Dante suddenly “powered up/evolved” and landed a fatal blow, (meaning Chen’s regeneration suddenly stopped working), and after that Dante could finally regenerate again.

4) Sure, they did unlock, but that’s not relevant to the point I made. The Vergil Vs Dante fights in DMC3 consistently show us when they’re regenerating and when they can’t, and who they can regenerate against. Dante against Fodder, stabbed in 5 different places? Perfectly fine. Dante against Vergil, who only stabbed him in the chest? He’s completely out of it, and only was resuscitated by unlocking his DT. Which just further proves the point.

5) You say this here, but then call the Cerberus fight, a clear example you ask for in this point, a mere inconsistency. Does that not imply that any proof I yield means nothing because the proof you state you desire does not meet up to your own standards?

6) Dante evolves to gain these resistances, as pointed out earlier and shown in the DMC2 Novel scan.

7) I haven’t seen these, so I’ll need you to provide them.

8) I’ve stated Dante’s evolutionary capacity should be enough to handle this, and have provided multiple examples of this alongside Tony. Further, as I have PREVIOUSLY REITERATED, a mere visit to the Demonic Physiology Page or his Profile can show you that yes, it does indeed exist.

9) Dante’s fear manip. can leave enemies petrified in fear by just using his real name, can make Demons (who are resistant to fear manip), flee in terror, scales above the DW as Demons can exist there just fine, and the DW can cause madness. (Even coming near the DW can cause it’s victims to be hit with powerful hallucinations and illusions, an unearthly sickness that kills its prey, corrupt those nearby and can induce insanity.) This includes things like paralysis as well.

10) Scan of a Demon that can be killed in the way a normal Demon can, (ie. those with high Godly, as seen with the other scan) and still come back anyway by creating a tether to their prey so they may always return even after complete erasure, Dante can kill these permanently.



11) I’ve already stated that I understood my mistake there, but also…you haven’t? I’ve provided evidence which you have only deemed not satisfactory, I’ve provided examples and locations to gain them which you sort of just…glossed over. In your words, “Give me something more noticeable than the Demon Physiology Page.” (Although, to be fair this was in response to Tony saying something near identical to the With Crystals tab). The Page with all of Dante’s innate abilities from his heritage, the source of every single ability he has…isn’t worthwhile? And even when I give you an example fitting the exact criteria, (“show me a gaping wound in that instance, THAT would be regeneration negation” when moments prior “So it’s an inconsistency” {identical example to the one being asked for, a sizable and permanent wound on a Demon, in this case a double Decapitation, written off an an inconsistency}), it’s written off. Heck, Tony and I provided the Chen scan where it states when they could and couldn’t Regenerate and whomst it was against, (and how in mere moments Dante regained his ability), it’s quite literally a perfect example.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I don't know why such a large essay debate was necessary.

Literally every Reactive Evolution feat is indexxed on profile. Literally every Regen Neg and Regen Neg resistance scaling is indexxed on Demon Page.
Such things don't need debating for their their validity. This isn't a CRT.

And BFR doesn't work. Dante resists that from Malphas.

Dante FRA for Tony's and Reapers reasons.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Creator fra.

 

[RedReaper616]

Bump.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

@Theglassman12 And? He still got his powers to overcome his regen not only that but this is Mid to High godly, deconstruction isn't defeating that without regen negg in the mix.

Also 2 things here, Gilver isn't one of the weakest demons, heck we haven't even gotten around to see what qualifies to "the weakest demons" as those that need surrounding shit to regen are summoned by him casually in the hospital and in the bar to fight Dante before he gets to play. So no, this guy qualifies for the high godly stuff.

You missed the point, it was to show how he can overcome regen negg with enough time and this is a weaker dante. That and Pseudo DT healing him when Majin couldn't

I was adding both in my list, him negating regen and negating regen he couldn't negate previously.

And by unlocking those he could regenerate from wounds that were killing him, those same attacks doesn't have effect on him later on hence the RE.

All demons have regen negg, its a standard ability for them, with Pluto being a demon king and having the ability to plunge someone out of existence this should be telling on its own.

What a way to ignore the RE. First the guy heals from Dante attacks without trouble in 3, then from the adventure in the demon world and later on from Mundus. Nelo is just fine and even defeats Dante in their first fight, his body falling apart after coming back 10 years later is because of the beatdown Dante gave him in DMC1, not because he is weak to getting his ass whooped.

To make it clear, he is falling apart because of what Dante did to him, he can't properly heal from that even after healing from his attacks in previous incarnations.

Base Dante can't hurt him and can't deal lasting injuries on him while DSS Dante can and dealt fatal wounds on him.


Yeah, lets just ignore what I said, sure.
Dante, base Dante without Sparda injures Mundus and Mundus heals, he can't negate his regeneration on his own, something that he previously could do with said weapon in his possession.

What doesn't line up exactly?



So visual feats aren't a thing anymore? I guess we now need to be spoon feed to have an actual feat.
Argosax, Mundus equal and someone that Sparda can't kill even with an island full of half demons, was killed by base Dante easily.


We already explained this in the past but demon stuff can negate regeneration and kill demons, that's why I brought this up.

Dante was injured, the extent of those injuries is unknown but he was trying to heal the whole time, the Qliphoth pumping him with blood actually speed up his recovery

This is pure logic , just getting stronger doesn't mean you can somehow negate someones regeneration. After all that he could get back on the road and fight Urizen, this time his injuries healed normally. Something that put him in a coma for 1 month previously.


Fair point, his immortality is mostly type 3 and I already showed how he resist all that shit and negates it the same way.
Also cool, Dante has more layers.

Every single final fantasy spell starts by affecting the target, there's no way dante's dodging something that is literally affecting his body the moment the spell is casted. Also dodging attacks is irrelevant to a guy who has precognition so Dante dodging isn't going to help him in the long run.

Dante dodges, he already did it to something more impressive than this.

So does chen and Dante still did his thing, so he will walk through the army without problems.

Again, lack of feats for the precog working on type 2 and 4 acausals, meaning Dante will be affected by it.

All demons have type 4, the demon pluto gave his power can precog them but not kings, beastheads goes beyond that and precogs kings too.

Fair on the type 2, I probably need to ask about it since its a layered precog vs type 2

Fusionism on contact and 2-A BFR works on Dante, the former he literally needs a single touch and the latter any one of his endless clones can spam and throw him into the Void where he'll lose.

I never said they wouldn't work, just that he won't have the chance to use the former. The latter gets countered with dimensional travel and immeasurable speed

@RedReaper where does it remotely mention evolution or adaptation? Nothing in the scans remotely say that.

I already explained all that above.


Anyways, I vote for Dante, the clones won't be a problem and this bitch can't negate Dante's regen and the resistances he negates aren't even that useful, more so considering Dante has them on several layers and can evolve and get them back.

Dante only needs to tap him once to win.

 

[RedReaper616]

Bump.

 

[Stillwinston]

Creator has to use the bathroom in the back FRA

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

What wincon does Creator even have?

 

[Stillwinston]

Would 2-A BFR work?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Bfr is resisted obviously

 

[RedReaper616]

What wincon does Creator even have?

According to Glassman, 2-A BFR and On Contact Fusionism.

For the first one, Tony has stated that Dante’s many instant teleport options + immeasurable speed bypasses that, and you’ve gone on record to state that Dante resists BFR, but I’m weary of equating Malphas to Creator’s BFR. Even still, if we did it only proves Dante can answer this, and if we don’t it’s not much of a factor due to passives preventing Creator attacking from Fear Manip or the like + Dante can one tap and win.

The On Contact Fusionism works, but the issue is he virtually has no ability to touch Dante because Dante has instant dodge options and abilities that keep Creator at so much range it really doesn’t matter. If he had Yamato it’d be no issue at all because he could just split their existences like he did with Nero and the Savior, but either way it doesn’t add up to a really viable wincon imo.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

but I’m weary of equating Malphas to Creator’s BFR

Why? Is it because Creator's is 2A? That's just range not potency . Which is useless if he can't even teleport Dante in the first place.

Rest of stuff is fine...but I'd like to add more.
Dante's AD will allow him to become faster and stronger each moment and also increase his skill in response to threat. Along with all of this is Danger Sense + Instinctive Reactions + Analytical Prediction means he isn't getting tagged at all.
And he has time manip which bypasses like 2-3 layers of resistance and works on immeasurables. So....

 

[RedReaper616]

Why? Is it because Creator's is 2A? That's just range not potency . Which is useless if he can't even teleport Dante in the first place.

Rest of stuff is fine...but I'd like to add more.
Dante's AD will allow him to become faster and stronger each moment and also increase his skill in response to threat. Along with all of this is Danger Sense + Instinctive Reactions + Analytical Prediction means he isn't getting tagged at all.
And he has time manip which bypasses like 2-3 layers of resistance and works on immeasurables. So....

That, and I’m not sure how good the actual BFR feat for Creator is as No scan was ever brought up for it.

I did say this was potentially a stomp in Dante’s favor simply because the Creator’s wincons are so incredibly difficult for him to achieve they’re hardly able to be considered wincons. One requires him to lay a hand on Dante and the other is debatably a non factor at worst to overall ineffective at best-Even if we give the Creator the biggest amount of Lee way simply because Dante’s wincons are easier, faster, better, and he can in moments just say no to it.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yeah, wouldn't mind calling this a stmp

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

so how many vote there are ?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

For the record I was joking with the BFR counter since I don't really know how those 2 will act to each other (the speed+the dimensional travel) so there isn't much argument there beyond what Dante resist and what this guy bypasses there.

But his resistance is baseline (and should be non existent tbh) since he gets BFR all the time

 

[Stillwinston]

Well if this doesn't pan out could try the outsider vs creator I guess

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

well we should end this battle right now no need for more debate