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Person who can kill anything in a punch vs skeleton who can't be hit at all

1,170
26
Saitama smiling like a goof
vs
Colored Sans Render


Saitama can kill anyone with one punch, how about someone who he can't really punch at all.

This fight takes place in a city. Saitama finds a worthy opponent, someone who he can't hit after mistaking Sans for a monster.

Speed Equalized

SBA
 
I'm asumming that's a vote for sans

Sans: 1


Saitama: 0

Looks like another loss for the caped baldy.
 
Sans: 2

Saitama: 0

Remember the good old days where people thought Saitama killed everyone with one punch and the first season of OPM was hyped?
 
I went and looked up the other thread. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/217718 Perhaps it's pointless to ask, but when I saw this matchup, some questions came to mind.

1. Can Sans's attacks be dodged? I'd presume so, but can they? Or do they just auto-damage, since they're soul attacks.

2. What's the fastest Sans can kill Saitama?

3. Are Sans's attacks instant one-hit-kills if you've killed enough &/or lack enough determination? (Then again, Sans's profile lacks any mention of his attacks being stronger based on how many kills his opponent has. Unsure why, but as far as we know, we go by what's on the profiles, so oh well.)

4. Do we consider Serious Saitama as having any determination?

5. Do we consider regular Saitama as having any Determination? He's noted as having a strong will

6. Sans has Telekinesis & Gravity Manipulation. Saitama has shown resistance against Tatsumaki's telekinetic/psychic abilities. Do these things matter to one another at all in this match?

See, something I'm wondering if it was considered: Saitama doesn't just punch.

He's an idiot with very little practical training, I'll admit, with rather basic attacks, but he does actually have some techniques.

If Sans is using durability negating attacks, would Saitama not notice that Sans is hurting him? And with a barrage of attacks, hurting him frequently?

Saitama wants a fight against a strong opponent. I'd think that someone who can hurt him so regularly & might dodge his attacks might prompt him into going serious.

Hence one more question:

What if Saitama tries these techniques? Info from his profile:

  • Serious Consecutive Side Hops: Saitama hops from side to side rapidly. Doing so allows him to create a multitude of afterimages. He has been shown to be able to walk forward while doing so and the shock wave caused by it was enough to break Sonic's Ten Shadows Burial.


  • Serious Table Flip: Saitama flips the entire battlefield into the air. Flipped the Monster Association Base during his fight with Garou.


Assuming Sans confuse the real thing & the afterimages, this may help Saitama take less hits, & if Saitama exits this move, it may take time for Sans to find Saitama again, if he leaves Sans's field of view suddenly enough.

During such time, Saitama could also attempt to attack; Even if he's in the air, running or jumping, if he punches hard enough to make shockwaves repeatedly, Sans suddenly has projectiles to dodge, too, & we KNOW Sans & his Building Level durability aren't surviving more than one.

Not only that, Serious Consecutive Side Hops creates a wall of shockwaves; It was at least big enough to defeat Speed-o'-Sound Sonic's 10 afterimages.

Sans having to dodge the wall of shockwaves from Saitama's SCSH move means his movement can be more predictable; There are more spots where if he dodges/teleports to such a spot, Sans gets killed by a shockwave.

Thus, when Sans teleports away from such a shockwave wall, Saitama has fewer "wrong guesses" about where to aim his attack to hit Sans with it. More dodging & teleporting, more taxing of Sans's stamina.

If Saitama's punches or shockwaves from his punches or the shockwaves from his side hops lands, Sans dies.

And Saitama has planetary range with his shockwaves. We've seen them cover large areas; If Sans doesn't see the shockwave or its size coming, & doesn't teleport far enough backwards, or to the side, compared to the punch, a shockwave might hit him anyway.

SaitamaWideShockwaveResults
Obviously, not even the biggest, but it shows just how wide the area of effect is.
If Sans doesn't see such destruction coming....

The other matter is Serious Table Flip. Saitama throwing the ground into the air. This could disrupt Sans's footing, potentially damage him, as well as provide other locations for Saitama to jump to, or rocks to hide behind or throw at, as well as falling rocks & such Sans might have to dodge, but Saitama would hardly feel pain from.

Even if the rocks don't hurt him & he manages to realize in advance Saitama is about to turn the ground beneath his feet into a catapult from a great distance away, falling rocks possibly damaging him &/or blocking his vision or maybe his attacks & whatnot may be trouble for Sans. I will say that they could be useable with his gravity attacks, however.


I'm not saying Sans isn't smarter, & he's definitely more haxxed. But I wouldn't say Saitama lacks effective ranged options or ways to challenge Sans's mobility.

Yes, Sans pierces durability. But can he kill fast enough before Sans flips the ground & has it fall on him or smacks him with it? Can he kill Saitama before the threat of shockwaves comes into play & one coming from a punch he might think he dodged one-shots him?

How does he handle Saitama constantly side-hopping, making a wall of afterimages and shockwaves, which might confuse him about which is real, as well as force him to dodge, & teleport more often & exert more stamina?


I'm only curious for now, & frankly, I'm not sure who to vote for. It's possible there are counterarguements I may agree with, & so, I would say I am not voting for either currently.
 
Now that I think about it, can'tSaitama just punch the ground and kill Sans with a shockwave?

You could argue that Sans would kill him first, but if Saitama does a shockwave, the Skeleton ain't dodging that.
 
@DMB 1: I think that, in theory, yes, but if this is a bloodlusted Sans who's alert & hostile, that might work less well.

With a punch from a shockwave, Sans might dodge the punch or teleport away, but not realize the shockwave was going to happen, & get bit, BECAUSE he thought it was just a punch.

But if Saitama is just standing there meters away, & raises his foot or lowers his fist, & aims it towards the ground, with Sans looking at him, Sans might wonder why this dude he's hurting the soul of non-stop is about to strike the ground, & realize he's probably trying to make an earthquake or break the floor or something.

Unless Sans laughs, thinking a human can't make earthquakes or shockwaves, he might be able to react to the motion to make a shockwave on the ground -be the motion stomping or striking the ground- before the move hits the ground, & in theory, could try to... jump? Teleport into the air? Gravity Manipulate himself upwards?

It's more dubious he could predict how far along & where the shockwaves/quakes would go along the ground, & how widespread they were, with enough precision to dodge them; He could teleport to another spot, but if they're long-lasting enough/travelling far enough, they might hit him anyway.

But has Sans shown any good jumping abilities? Teleporting himself vertically? Gravity manipulating himself into the air?

Typically, when Sans GMs the player's soul, it flies into a wall. If Sans GMs himself upwards, does he go flying into space & BFR himself? Lol. XD
 
1.Sans Gravity manipulation/Telekinesis work on both your soul and body at the same time,this mean Saitama resistance are nothing.

2.Soul poison kills really quickly. I dout Saitama would have time to react to that.

3.Sans is not a dumbass, whoever he fight against he will keep distance far from them because Sans know his weakness is poor AP.

4.I not saying Saitama is stupid but he is very easily to be tricked, which is something that Sans always do in his battle.

Sans fighting style is changing his attack,tricking his opponet,create traps and spam danmaku.Something that Saitama rarely deal with.

5.Teleportation help Sans easily dodge Saitam shockwave

6.Having enough Determination doesn't help Saitama from being soulhax to death

7.Fliping or creating afterimages doesn't help Saitama either. Sans could easily see through them by just sense his soul and fliping the area around him doesn't cost Sans any trouble, consider Sans could teleport to avoid it.

8.In-character Saitama does not spamming shockwave or anything like that.He go straight to his opponet and punch them.

9.Saitama only have planetary shockwave by sending his shockwave into the space

10.All you saying that Saitama is very adapt fighter,who could form out strategy and know his enemy power in just a snap
 
2. I'm not sure a Youtuber is a fair comparison to someone in a speed equalized match, at the least. Sans is fighting an opponent with speed equalized here. Odds are, Saitama would dodge far more hits, & in terms of game mechanics Sans damage accumulates based on how long the bones are in contact. Additionally, more contact means more KARMA poison. A speed equal opponent will probably be building up less karma via dodging.

Also, even if it is only a second, consider the speeds of the characters. Sans is Unknown, but stated to be higher than Chara/Frisk, who are MHS+ Speed. Saitama is Sub-Relativistic.

No matter who's speed you equalize to, be it MHS+ or Sub-Rel, a second or 2 is still plenty of time to react.

4. I would disagree about Saitama not being stupid. Our own profile for him, says about his intelligence:


Intelligence: Saitama seems to be single-minded at times, chasing a mosquito relentlessly even after sustaining a blast that destroyed his clothing completely. Due to his laid-back attitude, he lacks any sort of refinement in his techniques and is primarily a brawler in combat, simply punching a target until they're blown to pieces (which he usually does not need due to his overwhelming power). In addition, he is lacking academically, only barely passing the hero exam due to his poor score on the written exam. Nevertheless, he displays great control over his speed and strength, stopping his fist within a hair's breadth of Geno's face to avoid hurting him and generally holding back in fights in order to prolong them.


On the topic of Danmaku....


3 & 5. I don't deny that Sans is clever, tactically, nor scientifically, but in his own fight against Chara, we aren't shown much of Sans teleporting himself. His attacks, Chara's Soul, & other such things, & teleporting out of combat....

But when Chara is constantly charging him with a knife -or a gun or a stick or a frying pan or whatever- Sans dodges to the side. It's questionable if IC he does actually teleport rather than simply dodge, but he does have the option to teleport.

It's just not often shown to be something he does to himself within combat.

The problem for Sans is he doesn't have foreknowledge of how strong Saitama's punches will be or how big the shockwaves might be. Even if this only happens with the first attack, it's a problem.

If he tries to just sidestep like he does against Chara's knife swings, he might die to the shockwaves.

If he teleports away from Saitama, but only goes backwards, or just doesn't put himself to the side of where the shockwave will end up affecting, he may teleport say, a mile back from Saitama... but still reappear in the attack's trajectory.

Saitama has Enhanced Vision, too, so there's a good chance that if Sans reappears in his field of view, he'll be ready to attack again; If the force from any shockwaves linger, that could damage Sans, too.

7. Have we ever seen Sans teleport himself vertically? In theory, a 5-B can flip a lot of the ground, screwing up a lot of terrain, and create a lot of rubble. Even if he is dodging, this is yet more trouble; He has to continue trying to attack, teleporting or dodging, using up stamina & time, which would otherwise be putting more offensive pressure & keeping him at his best for longer.

It takes about 21 turns to go through Chara vs Sans & Sans falls asleep from exhaustion near the end of it. Even if you deny he fell asleep of exhaustion, he was sweating & breathing heavily, despite that Chara wasn't multiversal at the time, & was seemingly just using knife swings, due to being a higher level to be able to destroy Undertale.

More attacks means Sans gets worn down.

8 & 9. In-character, Saitama's whole goal is a challenging fight. An opponent who's hostile, immediately damaging him, non-stop would likely get him into fight "Seriously".

Quoting our own profile: Attack Potency: Unknow. At least Planet level (He easily defeated Lord Boros in one punch after getting serious.

What Saitama used to defeat Boros was his Serious Strike.
SeriousStrikeEffects
Maybe it's not Planetary range, but I don't think this shockwave specifically went to space.

This is how its effects appeared in the manga. Even the chasm image above I posted is a product of Saitama briefly getting serious with Genos.
Even if it's not Planetary Range, it has a great width & far greater distance.

And I'm doubtful Saitama has a choice about them, given that both those times were Saitama went serious, a shockwave came from his attack. I would say they're a product of him using Serious Attacks, not a voluntarily executed technique.

Heck, the shockwave of his Serious Consecutive Side Hops was what was used to counter Speed-o'-Sound Sonic's Afterimages. The fact that SCSH is Saitama's own technique suggests he has some knowledge of employing shockwaves from his moves offensively.

10. While it's true that Saitama is lacking in martial arts skills, & has been shown to be lacking intellectually, against a teleporting opponent, it's easy to come to the conclusion that Sans is moving very fast or teleporting if he regularly leaves Saitama's field of view suddenly.

I would think even a brawler like Saitama, especially if he's trying to observe his opponents movements, & could conclude that teleportation is involved if his Enhanced Sight lets him see Sans not maneuver his body to get from point A to point B, or not get affected when the force of his shockwaves or debris that should've gone in Sans's path of movement don't seem to disturb it.

It might take some time, but Saitama likely has some capacity for dodging, & if it takes time for KARMA to inflict extra damage, even if it's 1 second or 1 30th of it, that's extra time for MHS+ combatants to observe how one another fight.

As for Sans's offenses, it's pretty intuitive to understand being tossed around, or to dodge bones & beams if you see them flying at you, I would think.


Not to try to act like this debate has concluded prematurely, nor to insult or speak down to you, but I do appreciate your indulgence & throughness in this discussion with me. Sorry if I'm being unpleasant. I just value thorough examination. I'm glad to have some healthy, detailed discussion.
 
@Imaginym

1.Speed equal doesn't matter here.Saitama still get soulhax to death

2.Saitama in-character does not start with shockwave or anything like that,he just go straight to his opponet and punch them.

3.Sans is extremely carefully when fight with a opponet that he doesn't know.His strategy is to finish the battle as fast as he can

4.Even we bloodlust Saitama,Sans still take this.Why?

-Gravity manipulation:This could restrict his movement and keep him in the ground. Afterimage creation can't help

-Telekinesis:Sans can grap his souls and throw it like a ragdoll.

-Teleportation:Sans could just teleport Saitama into a bunch of bones or teleport his attack right to Saitama face

-Soul attack + KARMA combos kill Saitama very quick.

-Like i said before Sans main method of combat is spamming his hax,danmaku,tricking his opponet,create traps.

-Something that Saitama never dealt with,heck consider how naive Saitama is,i believe Saitama can easily fall into one of Sans trick.
 
I vote Stomp. Someone can Haxx 2-B to death multiple time vs 5-B with no haxx is just simple stomp without doubt.
 
Hizack123 said:
I vote Stomp. Someone can Haxx 2-B to death multiple time vs 5-B with no haxx is just simple stomp without doubt.
1) We are unsure of what tier Frisk was when he fought Sans

2) Sans can only bypass durability and poison a soul, other than that, there's not much else

3) You can still dodge his attacks

Not that much of a stomp really.
 
1) in sans page it state that he "Repeatedly defeated a multiversal enemy" (link to Chara), if this not true then do something.

2) That already enough, Saitama has no answer to Souls haxx.

3) Danmaku, unless you have Save/load like Frisk and Chara you are pretty F@#ked i have to say. Don't count speed equal.
 
Hizack123 said:
1) in sans page it state that he "Repeatedly defeated a multiversal enemy" (link to Chara), if this not true then do something.
2) That already enough, Saitama has no answer to Souls haxx.

3) Danmaku, unless you have Save/load like Frisk and Chara you are pretty F@#ked i have to say. Don't count speed equal.
1) A bit of an assumtpion, and has been put to doubt before

2) If someone attacks your soul, that doesn't mean it inbstakills you. Soul can tank attacks, even if they have no particular resistance to soul manip.

3) You can do a Sans fight without getting it once. It may not be in character for Saitama to doge, but he can if he wants to.
 
3)Saitama has no idea what sans can do, It Like first time people play Undertale and actually touch flowey bullet (kek) + Saitama In-character he just stand there to see what can Sans do before He got Fullblast from Sans, he should not feel the pain due to how weak the attack it, make sure that he will continue to Stand there until he die from Karma kick in.
 
I'm still of the opinion that it might not be so much of a stomp. Sans's attack from Sans ignore durability, so it seems reasonable they'd cause tangible pain when they damage you no matter how durable you are. On such an assumption, Saitama could assume such attacks hurt him, & with Sans dodging/teleporting, that would coax him into going serious. Serious attacks from Saitama do generally cause shockwaves, & Sans may not know in advance of them, nor teleport in the right direction to evade them. (Also, in his fight, Sans only teleports his opponent & attacks, not himself. Outside of fights, yes.)

Point is, I feel it's quite possible Saitama would enter serious mode after noticing Sans damages him, especially if he's damaging him a lot & fast; A fight that's challenging to him is the whole reason he would go serious in general & kind of his main desire. And challenging is arguably an understatement.

But nonetheless, if Saitama does end up going serious soon enough after being damaged, it seems possible the aftereffects of his serious moves may have sufficient range to hit Sans assuming they catch him off-guard, one-shotting Sans. Not the most likely outcome, but I'd say it seems plausible. Sans is intelligent, but if he doesn't see the aftereffects of the attack from an ordinary-looking human coming....

There's also the matter of how many hits he needs to land how long it takes for Sans to win. Yes, he defeated Chara-possessed Frisk in multiple timelines, but that Chara-possessed-Frisk wasn't Multiversal until the level they gained after beating Sans, AFAIK. And Frisk was Town Level when defeating Asgore. So how strong the opponent Sans beat repeatedly is, is unclear, IMHO.

And assuming Sans's AP with hax is anywhere near his physical AP -it's 1, albeit 1 damage per frame, plus Karma which accumulates per hit- of Building Level, well.... It is Unknown, but if his AP via Hax is anything like his physical AP, consider the AP difference between Baseline Building Level and Planet Level: 10760817259617378709060521.216 times.

I KNOW, I KNOW, each hit via hax is doing Unknown Level damage and ignores durability, but in such a scenario, it would mean Sans probably needs 10760817259617378709060521 to hit his opponent. Without a 100% success rate, that's unlikely.

But we don't actually know his damage, nor Saitama's stamina for that matter, so whatever.

Again, I'm not arguing that Saitama has a super good shot at victory. Just that it's quite plausible that if Sans's provokes Saitama into serious mode -via damage and dodging, hence, a challenging fight- and Sans doesn't know in advance of the side-effects of Saitama's serious attacks AND doesn't dodge/teleport in the right direction prior to said side-effects occurring, he might get one-shot by the AoE.

But it's only a somewhat plausible scenario. Whatever the outcome of this thread, though, that's the outcome.
 
Imaginym said:
I'm still of the opinion that it might not be so much of a stomp. Sans's attack from Sans ignore durability, so it seems reasonable they'd cause tangible pain when they damage you no matter how durable you are. On such an assumption, Saitama could assume such attacks hurt him, & with Sans dodging/teleporting, that would coax him into going serious. Serious attacks from Saitama do generally cause shockwaves, & Sans may not know in advance of them, nor teleport in the right direction to evade them. (Also, in his fight, Sans only teleports his opponent & attacks, not himself. Outside of fights, yes.)
Point is, I feel it's quite possible Saitama would enter serious mode after noticing Sans damages him, especially if he's damaging him a lot & fast; A fight that's challenging to him is the whole reason he would go serious in general & kind of his main desire. And challenging is arguably an understatement.

But nonetheless, if Saitama does end up going serious soon enough after being damaged, it seems possible the aftereffects of his serious moves may have sufficient range to hit Sans assuming they catch him off-guard, one-shotting Sans. Not the most likely outcome, but I'd say it seems plausible. Sans is intelligent, but if he doesn't see the aftereffects of the attack from an ordinary-looking human coming....

There's also the matter of how many hits he needs to land how long it takes for Sans to win. Yes, he defeated Chara-possessed Frisk in multiple timelines, but that Chara-possessed-Frisk wasn't Multiversal until the level they gained after beating Sans, AFAIK. And Frisk was Town Level when defeating Asgore. So how strong the opponent Sans beat repeatedly is, is unclear, IMHO.

And assuming Sans's AP with hax is anywhere near his physical AP -it's 1, albeit 1 damage per frame, plus Karma which accumulates per hit- of Building Level, well.... It is Unknown, but if his AP via Hax is anything like his physical AP, consider the AP difference between Baseline Building Level and Planet Level: 10760817259617378709060521.216 times.

I KNOW, I KNOW, each hit via hax is doing Unknown Level damage and ignores durability, but in such a scenario, it would mean Sans probably needs 10760817259617378709060521 to hit his opponent. Without a 100% success rate, that's unlikely.

But we don't actually know his damage, nor Saitama's stamina for that matter, so whatever.

Again, I'm not arguing that Saitama has a super good shot at victory. Just that it's quite plausible that if Sans's provokes Saitama into serious mode -via damage and dodging, hence, a challenging fight- and Sans doesn't know in advance of the side-effects of Saitama's serious attacks AND doesn't dodge/teleport in the right direction prior to said side-effects occurring, he might get one-shot by the AoE.

But it's only a somewhat plausible scenario. Whatever the outcome of this thread, though, that's the outcome.


ok you have changed my mind you are right


maybe saitama has a chance by hitting him with the shockwaves using his punches

and we don't know how much the karma is going to be affective on him or how much lv is saitama

and saitama would got serious after sans's first attack

so we don't need to close this

but question who do you think that he going to win this

I just wanna see your opinion
 
To be frank, I'm not entirely sure. Again, the scenario involved in the outcome involves natural conditions -Sans not being aware of his opponent's serious capabilities before they are executed- and Sans unknowingly making a mistake of teleporting backwards to evade a melee strike, or teleporting not far enough to the side to avoid the melee strike, & thus, getting hit by the shockwave of such an attack, which would one-shot him.

It seems plausible that it would happen shortly after the start of the fight, & Sans isn't known for dodging far to the side, nor teleporting HIMSELF in combat -his attacks & his opponent, yes, & himself OUTSIDE of combat- but it also depends on him going in what he doesn't know is the wrong direction to evade. Almost random which direction one might dodge in, IMHO.

Plus, it's uncertain how how long the fight goes, because we don't know if Saitama's supposedly strong will counts as Determination, Saitama's stamina is Unknown, & Sans's AP with hax is Unknown & he beat someone who was weaker than Multiversal (Chara-Possessed Frisk needed the EXP from beating Sans to level up to achieve the power for that tier.) but presumably higher than Town Level, since Town Level Determination Frisk beat Asgore.

Given that speed is equalized Saitama could dodge some attacks, assuming it is true about dodging attacks from UT characters -Frisk does it, even at their weakest, at the least- & if he can perceive the attacks, his Enhanced Perception may help, once he realizes they're strong enough to be worth dodging, given that, AFAIK, Saitama typically doesn't dodge because he either wants to gauge strength, or just doesn't feel challenged/threatened by the attack.

There's also the matter of how speed equalized affects attack speed & the "1 damage per frame thing" & "damage over time" when speed for one of them is Unknown & they're both so fast that even a 30th of a second is likely plenty of time for them to act here.

Again, I'd prefer just to say I'm not sure who to vote for; Sans could easily get one-shotted because of factors he doesn't know about & may not be prepared to evade properly, or Saitama could not go serious/take too long to go serious, etc & get barraged to death.

Plus all the aforementioned uncertainties. Sorry @Ahmed Sakr Salma

Also, sorry about all the words, also also, it may be worth it to edit out long strings of text when quoting someone. Thank you.
 
Saitama wins. When he starts to actually get hurt he will throw out a serious punch and wipe out everything in front of him at near planetary range.
 
You guy saying like Saitama in-character will spam shockwave like crazy

Sans just need to teleport behind his back to avoid it

Heck,even we use serious Saitama here,he stand no chance against soulhaxx.

He will get ragdolled by Telekinesis,being impaled by hundred to millions of bones that attack his souls directly,his movement will get slow down via Gravity manipulation,he will get trapped in a unavoidable cage...etc
 
@james

Saitama couldn't be ragdolled by other gravity/TK users more powerful than Sans. And if Saitama gets threatened you better believe he will use his shockwaves, since they are byproducts of his strong punches.
 
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