OPM webcomic and manga seperation (As well as some Murata statements)

[Ourosboros]

Oh you mean the explosion afterwards from CSRC? By the way where does 1 to 13 exatons comes from exactly?

Sure, we can wait for other people input but multiple members including me disagreed on removing Murata's statement

Downscaling from Rover looks weird,its not like she was comparable to Rover at the slightest except the barrier she created thats the best which scales to Rover's blast at best. Dont think there is any demonstrated for cadres like Rover to scale to Gouketsu.

The 1 to 13 exatons result comes from this recalc of CSRC. We had a lengthy discussion about how Boros would go about destroying the crust and decided on melting.

No comment on the Murata statements. I've stated my opinion, I'll wait to hear the rest.

The scaling to Gouketsu is based on the recently translated season 2 guidebook, which includes material (eg interviews) from ONE and Murata as well as the anime directors. In Gouketsu's bio on page 38 it says that Gouketsu claimed that "there are more monsters in the Monster Association that are as strong as him [Gouketsu]". Obviously Orochi upscales from Gouketsu, but we think it's most likely he's talking about EC and Rover. It's been a huge discussion, you can look through it here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/strongest-one-punch-man-discussion-thread.107591/page-30#post-3528451

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

There's also the meteor thing apparently. The link for it is dead, at least for me, so help? It could upgrade the above dragons

 

[My_area]

Right, I should be clearer. My question is: do we change her key now that we will no longer apply the earthquake feat? I'm not sure because the feat isn't even mentioned despite being the original justification for the rating. It's a weird dynamic.

I would also like to contextualize these changes. We decided to do this CRT right now because the moon jump and CSRC are being recalced and Boros's/Garou's keys have been called into question. There have been objections to scaling Boros and Garou to the moon jump now that it's come up again, so the natural alternative was to upscale AG from Psykorochi. That ignited an intense debate about webcomic/manga scaling and since a separation has been on the tables ever since the Monster Association arc started to deviate with the Psykorochi fight.

I don't know if that changes your mind, but basically we need to sort out the timelines if we want to have coherent ratings for the likes of Boros and Garou now that the moon jump hits differently.

Well let this CRT pass through then we wont use this feat anymore if for some weird reason we use it even though as you mentioned there is no mention of Fubuki's Earthquake feat in her profile which is very strange.

Much appreciated that you helped explained why these changes happened since I wasn't there when that happened.I understand the origin of the debates now thank you.

Well while it didn't change my arguments per say,I am still glad to hear the context behind this CRT,I am more open minded to change here so I will see if enough convincing arguments are made then I will agree to seperate OPM manga from webcomic entirely,even if I dont in the end it doesn't matter since I will get outvoted in the end.So its okay.

Melting the surface of the earth, rather than an explosion. Because Boros' attacks seem to depict melting, CSRC is presumably the same.

I see..so then why is webcomic version of Boros CSRC 183 petatons? Because of his destruction going to wipe out Earth surface like normal surface wiping is?

The 1 to 13 exatons result comes from this recalc of CSRC. We had a lengthy discussion about how Boros would go about destroying the crust and decided on melting.

No comment on the Murata statements. I've stated my opinion, I'll wait to hear the rest.

The scaling to Gouketsu is based on the recently translated season 2 guidebook, which includes material (eg interviews) from ONE and Murata as well as the anime directors. In Gouketsu's bio on page 38 it says that Gouketsu claimed that "there are more monsters in the Monster Association that are as strong as him [Gouketsu]". Obviously Orochi upscales from Gouketsu, but we think it's most likely he's talking about EC and Rover. It's been a huge discussion, you can look through it here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/strongest-one-punch-man-discussion-thread.107591/page-30#post-3528451

I see,it looks the calculation is accepted then?

Okay sure

Gouketsu did say that there are monsters stronger than him in monster association so the sesson 2 guidebook is reaffirming his statement which is interesting.Though extrapolating that he is talking about EC or Rover from that statement sounds like a strech to me.I will read the thread in my free time

 

[My_area]

There's also the meteor thing apparently. The link for it is dead, at least for me, so help? It could upgrade the above dragons

Which one? Tell me,I will try to help you.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I see..so then why is webcomic version of Boros CSRC 183 petatons? Because of his destruction going to wipe out Earth surface like normal surface wiping is?

Normal surface wiping is 183 petatons.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Which one? Tell me,I will try to help you.

Meteor (One Punch Man)

The Meteor was a giant extraterrestrial rock from outer space in the One-Punch Man series. The Hero Association received warnings that Z-City's safety was threatened by the incoming meteor and the surrounding areas would perish. The S Class heroes failed to show up and the ones who did, Genos...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think there was talk of the meteorite getting an upgrade, putting it around country level. All above-dragons would upscale from that.

 

[My_area]

Normal surface wiping is 183 petatons.

So Boros CSRC in webcomic is doing normal surface wiping becuase of no mention of crust in the statement unlike in manga where guidebook translated is attack shaving of Earth?

Meteor (One Punch Man)

The Meteor was a giant extraterrestrial rock from outer space in the One-Punch Man series. The Hero Association received warnings that Z-City's safety was threatened by the incoming meteor and the surrounding areas would perish. The S Class heroes failed to show up and the ones who did, Genos...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think there was talk of the meteorite getting an upgrade, putting it around country level. All above-dragons would upscale from that.

You need help in the thread itself?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So Boros CSRC in webcomic is doing normal surface wiping becuase of no mention of crust in the statement unlike in manga where guidebook translated is attack shaving of Earth?

Average surface destruction is 183 petatons, that is what the webcomic CSRC does, this is the calc. Manga CSRC melts the surface.

So Boros CSRC in webcomic is doing normal surface wiping becuase of no mention of crust in the statement unlike in manga where guidebook translated is attack shaving of Earth?


You need help in the thread itself?

The link to for the High 7-A doesn't work, and reading what I can from the URL, it doesn't even seem to be related to the OPM meteor, but rather a regular meteor. It definitely needs a re-calc

 

[Ourosboros]

Well let this CRT pass through then we wont use this feat anymore if for some weird reason we use it even though as you mentioned there is no mention of Fubuki's Earthquake feat in her profile which is very strange.

Much appreciated that you helped explained why these changes happened since I wasn't there when that happened.I understand the origin of the debates now thank you.

1.) Well while it didn't change my arguments per say,I am still glad to hear the context behind this CRT,I am more open minded to change here so I will see if enough convincing arguments are made then I will agree to seperate OPM manga from webcomic entirely,even if I dont in the end it doesn't matter since I will get outvoted in the end.So its okay.

I see..so then why is webcomic version of Boros CSRC 183 petatons? Because of his destruction going to wipe out Earth surface like normal surface wiping is?

2.) I see,it looks the calculation is accepted then?

Okay sure

Gouketsu did say that there are monsters stronger than him in monster association so the sesson 2 guidebook is reaffirming his statement which is interesting.Though extrapolating that he is talking about EC or Rover from that statement sounds like a strech to me.I will read the thread in my free time

1.) Well, I thought we should have context otherwise this conversation won't make any sense. And don't get too fatalistic about the CRT, it's true that in conversations like these that minority opinions often get overlooked- but if you make your arguments early, coherently and get them seen, they may change some minds. I believe that opinions that are clearly stated are the most impactful, and if that doesn't work, make your arguments early and loudly.

The problem here is that we've come to a consensus after several, long-winded scaling debates you had no way of knowing about. I'll be interested to hear what you have to say, since you bring a fresh outside perspective on some key points.

2.) The CSRC calc math has been approved, but we are waiting for verse-knowledgeable calc group members to approve the melting method before it can be implemented. Profile hasn't been updated because we've been waiting for a few weeks now for a definitive verdict.

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

The link to for the High 7-A doesn't work, and reading what I can from the URL, it doesn't even seem to be related to the OPM meteor, but rather a regular meteor. It definitely needs a re-calc

If I recall correctly the link was to a asteroid impact calculator with the official size of the meteor plugged in to get the results.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Ah. I feel it should get re-calced.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Don't mind me, I'm just lurking and spectating at this point lol

 

[My_area]

Average surface destruction is 183 petatons, that is what the webcomic CSRC does, this is the calc. Manga CSRC melts the surface.

So Boros CSRC in webcomic is 183 petatons because there is no "shaving the Earth" or mention if crust correct? Also where did you get Boros High 6-A stats from webcomic since I cant find the translation,only the raws of the said statement

The link to for the High 7-A doesn't work, and reading what I can from the URL, it doesn't even seem to be related to the OPM meteor, but rather a regular meteor. It definitely needs a re-calc

Oh I see,thats unfortunate to hear.However is there something I can help you with? Because I am not getting your request correctly,what help do you need from me?

1.) Well, I thought we should have context otherwise this conversation won't make any sense. And don't get too fatalistic about the CRT, it's true that in conversations like these that minority opinions often get overlooked- but if you make your arguments early, coherently and get them seen, they may change some minds. I believe that opinions that are clearly stated are the most impactful, and if that doesn't work, make your arguments early and loudly.

The problem here is that we've come to a consensus after several, long-winded scaling debates you had no way of knowing about. I'll be interested to hear what you have to say, since you bring a fresh outside perspective on some key points.

2.) The CSRC calc math has been approved, but we are waiting for verse-knowledgeable calc group members to approve the melting method before it can be implemented. Profile hasn't been updated because we've been waiting for a few weeks now for a definitive verdict.

1) Appreciated for that,it helps me give bigger picture about the CRT thread in general otherwise I would just be evaluating them based on what the CRT has written.Well appreciated for the kidness,I just thought that since literally everyone so far disagreed with not seperating OPM manga and webcomic so my arguments isn't going to much be worth but I suppose since I posted it early on and made a good constructed argument,I hope it manages to atleast make some people think about their stance like you guys did to me

Oh I see,no wonder so many people are agreeing with seperating webcomics with manga,I appreciate your kindness,If my opinions are valuable then I will evaluate the threads you posted when I am free though I am afraid that it might derail the CRT,perhaps we can talk in your profile messages?

2) I see,thank you for the status reporting so basically the melting method itself is only one which is needed to be evaluated by staff members now? The other maths is fine?

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

Don't mind me, I'm just lurking and spectating at this point lol

I read all your comments in Zoro's voice.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So Boros CSRC in webcomic is 183 petatons because there is no "shaving the Earth" or mention if crust correct? Also where did you get Boros High 6-A stats from webcomic since I cant find the translation,only the raws of the said statement

Not really. "Shaving the earth" just means surface destruction. That is 183 petatons and that is what CSRC does. The statement comes from Boros saying he'll destroy the planet's surface and that "Shaving the earth" comes from a guidebook. The reason that manga CSRC is higher is because Boros' attacks consistently show his energy melts his surrounding. CSRC is just a far more powerful version of his normal attacks, that's why the manga CSRC calc is melting the surface.

Oh I see,thats unfortunate to hear.However is there something I can help you with? Because I am not getting your request correctly,what help do you need from me?

Is the Large Mountain level link dead for you? It probably doesn't matter that much as we are likely gonna re-calc it. Thx anyway.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

I read all your comments in Zoro's voice.

I just looked up Zoro's English dub voice and heard it for the first time because of that. The voice was perfect for the character.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some lurking to do.

Great, now I'm reading my posts and comments in Zoro's voice...

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

Here's a calc of the meteor that we're waiting to get feedback on:

Possible Saitama Casual Feat

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It's probably outdated tho. It's also from the anime

 

[My_area]

Not really. "Shaving the earth" just means surface destruction. That is 183 petatons and that is what CSRC does. The statement comes from Boros saying he'll destroy the planet's surface and that "Shaving the earth" comes from a guidebook. The reason that manga CSRC is higher is because Boros' attacks consistently show his energy melts his surrounding. CSRC is just a far more powerful version of his normal attacks, that's why the manga CSRC calc is melting the surface.

I see.So destroying planet's surface and shaving the Earth isn't the same thing in terms of calculated value of energy required for performing said feat? Huh? Didn't you say that webcomic Boros has 183 petatons of energy from his CSRC in webcomic while 1 to 13 exatons of energy from his CSRC in manga?I will quote your statement here.

The webcomic depicts an explosion while the manga shows melting. The webcomic is 183 petatons while the mange 1 to 13 exatons.

So yeah this statement here is what I am talking about.

Is the Large Mountain level link dead for you? It probably doesn't matter that much as we are likely gonna re-calc it. Thx anyway.

Yes it doesn't work with mine either.It says that connection isn't secure.You are welcome.

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

Depending on the translation and using the calced size of Z City you get 6-C results at least that what Ourosboros got when he did a quick calc of it.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Ok. So in simple terms

Webcomic CSRC / Shaving the surface / Destroying the surface = 183 petatons

Manga CSRC / Melting the surface = 1 to 13 exatons

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Depending on the translation and using the calced size of Z City you get 6-C results at least that what Ourosboros got when he did a quick calc of it.

Better to make a full fledged calc, but this could upgrade the base forms of Orochi and Boros

 

[Ourosboros]

It sounds like the 'Murata-statements' changes will be on hold unless more support for those comes through. Matthew Schroeder, My_Area, Tetsucabrah and Dual Binoculars have all stated related reasons they disagree with this change. Maybe this should be modified to be: "[Murata's statements] can be a useful secondary source, but they shouldn't be the primary source of any feat" as Matthew suggested. I personally think Murata's opinions have varying weight, it depends on what he's talking about.

Dual Binoculars, myself and Zoro have voiced supported for the separation changes. Could I get a "for", "neutral" or "against" from Tetsucabrah, PED and Matthew regarding the proposed manga/webcomic separations? I would like to know your perspectives and hear any additions/alterations you may have. My_Area, I understand you are generally opposed to the proposed separations and are waiting for further arguments or elaborations.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm currently opposed to webcomic and manga scaling, unless someone else gives further input. I'm currently neutral on Murata tho.

 

[LordTracer]

I am, of course, in favor of separating the manga and webcomic.

 

[My_area]

Here's a calc of the meteor that we're waiting to get feedback on:

Possible Saitama Casual Feat

vsbattles.fandom.com

Yes its anime OPM feat it cant be used.In anime each individual city were shown to span country size at a minimum but in manga there is no such indication that cities are as large as its in anime.In fact there is even a calculated size of City Z in manga which is massively smaller and can be used for the recalculation of meteor in manga instead of using inflated city sizes in anime.

RIP Z City - One-Punch Man

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ok. So in simple terms

Webcomic CSRC / Shaving the surface / Destroying the surface = 183 petatons

Manga CSRC / Melting the surface = 1 to 13 exatons

Just wanted to ask this.Can you please show me where you got webcomic Boros CSRC being surface wiping? I have the raws of his statement but not the translation?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I am, of course, in favor of separating the manga and webcomic.

Murata?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Just wanted to ask this.Can you please show me where you got webcomic Boros CSRC being surface wiping? I have the raws of his statement but not the translation.

I can't find it sadly, but original statement says surface wiping, while the mistranslation of the webcomic says destroying the planet. Qawsed has the manga translation so you can ask him. Though I've requested him to come here

 

[My_area]

I can't find it sadly, but original statement says surface wiping, while the mistranslation of the webcomic says destroying the planet. Qawsed has the manga translation so you can ask him. Though I've requested him to come here

Me too,I knew Qawsed translated the raw potions of the statement either here or in reddit which I cant find.Doesn't the mistranslation says that Boros will erase Saitama from the face of planet which doesn't mean anything in regards to tiers.Well he will come here so I will ask him,thanks for help anyways.

 

[LordTracer]

Murata?

Oh, I agree with the idea that we should treat his statements on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think that was the correct translation or tha manga. The mistranslation says "I will destroy you and this planet" iirc

 

[My_area]

I think that was the correct translation or tha manga. The mistranslation says "I will destroy you and this planet" iirc

Hm? We are talking about webcomic where Boros said that "I will erase you off the face of the planet" which if I remember correctly was addressed by Qawsed as mistranslation,dont remember "I will destroy you and this planet part" its sounds exactly like anime Boros CSRC here

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The webcomic mistranslation places the CSRC at 5-B. The anime was also 5-B, yes. Anime quote was: "All of my energy will be released, blasting you and this planet to hell!"

 

[My_area]

The webcomic mistranslation places the CSRC at 5-B. The anime was also 5-B, yes. Anime quote was: "All of my energy will be released, blasting you and this planet to hell!"

The mistranslation is the translation which is available everywhere which is "I will erase you from face of planet" or something like that.Dont know about 5-B mistranslation,thats a news to me.Yeah it was exactly that.

 

[Ourosboros]

Okay so, I propose changing the Murata change to case by case basis. Matthew proposing using Murata as a secondary, but not primary source. This would invalidate calcs like Geryuganshoop's 6-C feat and scaling like Senior Centipede's "at least High 7-C+ durability", since that scaling is based primarily on Murata statements. I am opposed to this logic, because I think Murata is qualified to quantify Geryuganshoop's speed since he is describing what he has drawn and in other situations. I think that in certain cases, as when Murata is simply describing what he has drawn as he understands it, he is qualified to be a primary source. When he is talking about events that are not shown or the universe in general, situations that are under ONE's authority, I think it is best to use him as a secondary source or not at all(unless he states that he is echoing ONEs opinions).

That said...
Webcomic/Manga Separation
For: Emirp, ZoroNotZolo, Ourosboros, LordTracer, Dual_Binoculars
Neutral:
Against: My_Area

I think PED and Tetsucabrah support the Webcomic Manga Separation changes, but I do not wish to misquote them. I would like Matthew's perspective on this as well.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I posted the votes in the OP fyi

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Okay so, I propose changing the Murata change to case by case basis. Matthew proposing using Murata as a secondary, but not primary source. This would invalidate calcs like Geryuganshoop's 6-C feat and scaling like Senior Centipede's "at least High 7-C+ durability", since that scaling is based primarily on Murata statements. I am opposed to this logic, because I think Murata is qualified to quantify Geryuganshoop's speed since he is describing what he has drawn and in other situations. I think that in certain cases, as when Murata is simply describing what he has drawn as he understands it, he is qualified to be a primary source. When he is talking about events that are not shown or the universe in general, situations that are under ONE's authority, I think it is best to use him as a secondary source or not at all(unless he states that he is echoing ONEs opinions).

That said...
Webcomic/Manga Separation
For: Emirp, ZoroNotZolo, Ourosboros, LordTracer, Dual_Binoculars
Neutral:
Against: My_Area

I think PED and Tetsucabrah support the Webcomic Manga Separation changes, but I do not wish to misquote them. I would like Matthew's perspective on this as well.

I think a "At least Low 7-B+, likely 6-C" could work for geryu

 

[My_area]

I fully agree with this.

Okay so, I propose changing the Murata change to case by case basis. Matthew proposing using Murata as a secondary, but not primary source. This would invalidate calcs like Geryuganshoop's 6-C feat and scaling like Senior Centipede's "at least High 7-C+ durability", since that scaling is based primarily on Murata statements. I am opposed to this logic, because I think Murata is qualified to quantify Geryuganshoop's speed since he is describing what he has drawn and in other situations. I think that in certain cases, as when Murata is simply describing what he has drawn as he understands it, he is qualified to be a primary source. When he is talking about events that are not shown or the universe in general, situations that are under ONE's authority, I think it is best to use him as a secondary source or not at all(unless he states that he is echoing ONEs opinions).

 

[My_area]

Murata:

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree: Matthew Schroeder, My_Area, Tetsucabrah, Dual Binoculars, My_Area, LordTracer

By the way you added my name 2 times in disagree section by mistake XD

 

[Ourosboros]

I think a "At least Low 7-B+, likely 6-C" could work for geryu

Potentially, it depends on what consensus we come to. According to my proposed definition, Geryuganshoop should stay at 6-C because Murata would be a valid primary source and perfectly acceptable justification for the feat as it stands right now. My logic is that Murata is describing what he is drawing, and since we ultimately base our calcs on what is shown in Murata's panels, I think it is fine to give Geryuganshoop his standout rating according to Murata's interpretation (and that this should generally be the case, so long as Murata's interpretation lines up with the visuals).