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Onigashima Zoro, Drake, and Onimaru CRT, including a minor change for Zoro's first 2 Post-Timeskip keys

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Antvasima said:
What is the consensus here so far? Have a sufficient number of knowledgeable members commented here?
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Everyone seems to agree with OP (although I made some changes so I can make a brief summary post), and @Eminiteable who is one of the most knowledgeable non-mods here on One Piece has agreed with the OP, same with @Kachon123 and @Nierre, both of whom have a good amount of involvement in One Piece CRT's.
 
Okay. I suppose that this can probably be applied then, in lack of better options.
 
KillerH said:
You cannot deny page one hurt Sanji Through raid suit. But also Sanji taking hit from Drake.
Didnt the X drake fight happen after Page one fight? He could be more durable after the page one fight. Wearing The raid suit could affect Sanji in some way making everything looks very consistent.
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What do you think of the OP though?
 
This will be Zoro's AP write-up for Wano and Post Mink Medicine:

Post Wano:

"760 teratons in Base (Fought and matched Onimaru, Base X Drake, Denjiro and Killer. Stunned Base Kaidou in a combination attack with Killer that left him feeling pain, albeit without significantly injuring him), 1.032 petatons with Busoshoku Haki (One-shot Killer. Clashed against Apoo, who fought Hybrid Drake. Deflected a Kaifu from Kaidou, which cut off Kiku's arm, and could briefly counteract the force of Cognac Big Mom and Hybrid Form Kaidou's Hakai, although broke his bones doing so. With Goken, incapacitated Apoo with a Shishi Sonson and cut through his Tonfa, which tanked hits from Hybrid Drake)", and the rest is the same.

Post Mink Zoro:

"760 teratons in Base (As strong, if not stronger than before. Although weaker than King, he blocked a slash from King directed at Sanji), 1.032 petatons with Busoshoku Haki (As strong, if not stronger than his previous Busoshoku Haki. "..."), so basically Post-Mink Zoro's power level is the exact same but the justifications are expanded a bit.
 
Eseseso said:
In the wake of a recently finished Zoro and Drake CRT, I found some more stuff which concerns Base Wano Zoro, Base X Drake, and Onimaru.

1. Onimaru drew blood from Kawamatsu, who is Scabbard lvl 6-A and tanked hits from Kaido.

2. In connection to this, Zoro matched Onimaru.

3. While Killer was not at peak AP against Zoro due to not having his Sonic Scythes (going by his statement), his durability shouldn't be much lower than its usual 6-a level, so Zoro defeating Killer with a Buso attack should still be a 6-A feat.

4. As was mentioned in the previous thread linked above, X Drake was able to briefly defend against an attack from Yamato albeit he was knocked back from the hit. As with Zoro, blocking an attack in a way like that should be an AP feat for Base Drake that should let his Base downscale to Baseline 6-A since he was still knocked back by the hit, which is supported by him being shown fighting Apoo in base with injuries that his Zoan form did not have, implying that for at least some of his off-screen bout with Apoo he was in Base.

4.5. Speaking of Drake, I think his Zoan form should scale to 1 petaton durability due to both fighting Apoo off screen while he was using his 1 petaton sound attacks (and having injuries in Base that probably came from Apoo's sound attacks, as he is shown dodging some of them in base), and holding his own against the CP0 agent who not only tanked a Boom from Apoo (which scales to 1 petaton due to knocking out Post Udon Luffy who in base has 1 petaton durability) and is comparable to his other top masked agents, who weren't too damaged after being attacked point blank by Kazenbo, which damaged Yamato.

His Zoan AP still only scales above his 760 teraton base AP due to him still losing against the CP0 leader and mainly damaging him with piercing damage, so it's better for him to just downscale (or rather, just upscale above his downscaled base).

This would mainly affect Buso Zoro, the latter of whom already one-shot Killer with Buso and Killer has 1 petaton durability. Being badly injured by blocking the Ocean Sovereignty with Buso Haki is not an anti-feat since both Kaido and Big Mom were in forms (Hybrid and 3-Homies) that scaled far above their base keys AND it was a combined attack.

Queen won't scale since it was only Base Drake who he damaged. Apoo also won't scale since he only blocked Zoro's weaker Nitoryu attacks with Buso and was easily defeated by a Goken attack.

As for the whole Zoro vs Hawkins thing:

1. It's only Base Hawkins that the Base Tobiroppo scale above (since it was only Base Hawkins that matched Dressrosa Arc Law), not the Straw Man card.

2. Zoro was busy trying to defend Tama.

3. Zoro still one-shot the Straw Man with Tower Climb and would've killed Hawkins were it not for him transferring the pain to someone else.


Because of these Zoro revision proposals, I think that Zoro's second key should be changed from "post-Enma training" to just "Wano arc" Zoro, and his first key should just be for Fishman Island and Dressrosa.

Yes he trained himself to improve his usage of Enma right before the Onigashima Raid, but this training was just to improve his control over Enma, and nothing says that this training improved the rest of his stats.

Besides, his Base being Scabbard level 6-A would better explain how his Onigiri was able to make Kaido feel pain with a cut without any Buso whatsoever.

Edit:

5. Post Mink Zoro should have Asura mentioned in his post mink key as being "Far stronger than his previous Asura", since not only is Zoro himself stronger but he also isn't severely injured like he was when he used Asura against Kaido. Emin and I agreed that it should be put alongside Post Mink Medicine Zoro's Haoshoku Infusion and Unleashing Enma in the post-Mink Key

6. Apoo and Drake should also scale to Zoro's FTL speed, plus Drake should scale to reacting to Base Yamato.

7. I think that Zoro's "strongest moves" should thus be added to his base Wano key since he didn't use Buso Haki in that joint attack with Killer against Kaido. His Goken attack against Apoo can be added to his Buso Haki justification since IIRC Goken is still Buso Haki.
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It seems like Onimaru biting Kawamatsu was a gag or that was probably a plot hole.
 
Eseseso said:
In the wake of a recently finished Zoro and Drake CRT, I found some more stuff which concerns Base Wano Zoro, Base X Drake, and Onimaru.

1. Onimaru drew blood from Kawamatsu, who is Scabbard lvl 6-A and tanked hits from Kaido.

2. In connection to this, Zoro matched Onimaru.

3. While Killer was not at peak AP against Zoro due to not having his Sonic Scythes (going by his statement), his durability shouldn't be much lower than its usual 6-a level, so Zoro defeating Killer with a Buso attack should still be a 6-A feat.

4. As was mentioned in the previous thread linked above, X Drake was able to briefly defend against an attack from Yamato albeit he was knocked back from the hit. As with Zoro, blocking an attack in a way like that should be an AP feat for Base Drake that should let his Base downscale to Baseline 6-A since he was still knocked back by the hit, which is supported by him being shown fighting Apoo in base with injuries that his Zoan form did not have, implying that for at least some of his off-screen bout with Apoo he was in Base.

4.5. Speaking of Drake, I think his Zoan form should scale to 1 petaton durability due to both fighting Apoo off screen while he was using his 1 petaton sound attacks (and having injuries in Base that probably came from Apoo's sound attacks, as he is shown dodging some of them in base), and holding his own against the CP0 agent who not only tanked a Boom from Apoo (which scales to 1 petaton due to knocking out Post Udon Luffy who in base has 1 petaton durability) and is comparable to his other top masked agents, who weren't too damaged after being attacked point blank by Kazenbo, which damaged Yamato.

His Zoan AP still only scales above his 760 teraton base AP due to him still losing against the CP0 leader and mainly damaging him with piercing damage, so it's better for him to just downscale (or rather, just upscale above his downscaled base).

This would mainly affect Buso Zoro, the latter of whom already one-shot Killer with Buso and Killer has 1 petaton durability. Being badly injured by blocking the Ocean Sovereignty with Buso Haki is not an anti-feat since both Kaido and Big Mom were in forms (Hybrid and 3-Homies) that scaled far above their base keys AND it was a combined attack.

Queen won't scale since it was only Base Drake who he damaged. Apoo also won't scale since he only blocked Zoro's weaker Nitoryu attacks with Buso and was easily defeated by a Goken attack.

As for the whole Zoro vs Hawkins thing:

1. It's only Base Hawkins that the Base Tobiroppo scale above (since it was only Base Hawkins that matched Dressrosa Arc Law), not the Straw Man card.

2. Zoro was busy trying to defend Tama.

3. Zoro still one-shot the Straw Man with Tower Climb and would've killed Hawkins were it not for him transferring the pain to someone else.


Because of these Zoro revision proposals, I think that Zoro's second key should be changed from "post-Enma training" to just "Wano arc" Zoro, and his first key should just be for Fishman Island and Dressrosa.

Yes he trained himself to improve his usage of Enma right before the Onigashima Raid, but this training was just to improve his control over Enma, and nothing says that this training improved the rest of his stats.

Besides, his Base being Scabbard level 6-A would better explain how his Onigiri was able to make Kaido feel pain with a cut without any Buso whatsoever.

Edit:

5. Post Mink Zoro should have Asura mentioned in his post mink key as being "Far stronger than his previous Asura", since not only is Zoro himself stronger but he also isn't severely injured like he was when he used Asura against Kaido. Emin and I agreed that it should be put alongside Post Mink Medicine Zoro's Haoshoku Infusion and Unleashing Enma in the post-Mink Key
Click to expand...
Well, he never used Asura in his post mink key, also I didn't know the mink medicine increases strength, I thought it just made him get back up for one more fight. Btw CP0 was going into a land with two emperors who are heavily focused on fire attacks, with another emperor ( Luffy ) that uses fire attacks there, King, who also uses fire, Sanji too, and a ton of other people. So basically, I doubt they weren't given something that helps them go through fire without getting hurt, or using a technique that helps them resist fire. Basically I doubt them jumping through the fire was them just being tough and tanking it. I don't think I have any other nitpicks, good job.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Well, he never used Asura in his post mink key
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I just figure it's worth adding
TheMonkeMan said:
, also I didn't know the mink medicine increases strength, I thought it just made him get back up for one more fight.
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1. That's what this thread thinks.

2. Honestly with all that I'm adding I kinda need the Post-Mink Key to stay so the Wano Zoro key doesn't get overloaded with power amps and justifications.
TheMonkeMan said:
Btw CP0 was going into a land with two emperors who are heavily focused on fire attacks, with another emperor ( Luffy ) that uses fire attacks there, King, who also uses fire, Sanji too, and a ton of other people. So basically, I doubt they weren't given something that helps them go through fire without getting hurt, or using a technique that helps them resist fire. Basically I doubt them jumping through the fire was them just being tough and tanking it.
Click to expand...
There is nothing confirming any special fire resistance.

And even so, the CP0 leader tanked the same Boom that one-shot Base Post-Udon Luffy, who tanked Big Mom's 1 petaton attacks.
TheMonkeMan said:
I don't think I have any other nitpicks, good job.
Click to expand...
Thanks.
 
Eseseso said:
I just figure it's worth adding

1. That's what this thread thinks.

2. Honestly with all that I'm adding I kinda need the Post-Mink Key to stay so the Wano Zoro key doesn't get overloaded with power amps and justifications.

There is nothing confirming any special fire resistance.

And even so, the CP0 leader tanked the same Boom that one-shot Base Post-Udon Luffy, who tanked Big Mom's 1 petaton attacks.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Oda probably didn't care enough to say they had fire resistant tech.
Also, that guy was wearing a mask ( sort of protects his face ) and fell to the ground and screamed. Dunno if that is necessarily tanking when you have a slight guard on your face and still get thrown to the ground by an explosion and yell. And uh, this part where Apoo one shots Luffy, can I get a scan of the scene??
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Oda probably didn't care enough to say they had fire resistant tech.
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If it was never said in-story then it's headcanon
TheMonkeMan said:
Also, that guy was wearing a mask ( sort of protects his face ) and fell to the ground and screamed. Dunno if that is necessarily tanking when you have a slight guard on your face and still get thrown to the ground by an explosion and yell.
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They did get up shortly later with next to no damage and helped their leader fight Apoo and Drake.

So they seemed to only be slightly hurt.
TheMonkeMan said:
And uh, this part where Apoo one shots Luffy, can I get a scan of the scene??
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Here. The same "Boom" attack that one-shot Base Post Udon Luffy (who has 1.032 petaton durability even in base) was endured by the CP0 agent (although he was still notably damaged, albeit not as much as Luffy).
 
Eseseso said:
If it was never said in-story then it's headcanon

They did get up shortly later with next to no damage and helped their leader fight Apoo and Drake.

So they seemed to only be slightly hurt.

Here. The same "Boom" attack that one-shot Base Post Udon Luffy (who has 1.032 petaton durability even in base) was endured by the CP0 agent (although he was still notably damaged, albeit not as much as Luffy).
Click to expand...
How do you know he was only slightly hurt? If it was never said in story it's head canon.

All jokes aside, good points, I don't see any flaws in this post right now.
 
So do all of the knowledgeable members here agree with these changes?
 
Nierre said:
What exactly has changed since the original proposal?
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The only major things I can remember are that Buso Wano Zoro (as in, before the Mink Medicine) should be upgraded to 1 petaton for one-shotting Killer, who has 1 petaton durability (although Zoan Drake and Apoo without his Devil Fruit don't scale to this 1 petaton value).

Also, Zoan Drake gets 1 petaton durability for tanking Apoo's Devil Fruit (which is one petaton) during the off-screen parts of their fight, although his AP is still only above 760 teratons.

Zoro's "strongest moves" will be split, with his Onigiri that stunned Base Kaido going to his Base key (since he didn't use Buso Haki from what I can tell) and his Goken that temporarily one-shot Apoo (and cut his Tonfas which tanked attacks from Zoan Drake) going to his Buso Haki section (since Goken is technically Buso Haki).

Also, I think Kyutoryu should be in post mink medicine Zoro's key alongside Enma and Haoshoku Infusion, since it is in his Beginning of Timeskip key even though he never used it then.

Also some minor stuff about updating the speed of Apoo and Drake, but that's just cleaning up earlier threads.
 
Also, minor thing but for Hybrid Drake and Apoo without his DF, I'm going to add that they fought a "casual" Buso Haki Zoro, since Zoro was using only 2 swords and nameless attacks until he saw Kiku's arm, got pissed, and one-shot Apoo with Goken.

Btw, the fact that Apoo was one-shot by Goken and not by a Punk Gibson from Kid (even if the latter did draw blood from him as well) is a good supporting example of Buso Zoro being 1 petaton.
 
Just finished editing Zoro's page, which was the last one I needed to edit, so I think we're done here and this CRT can finally be closed.

Huge thanks to @Antvasima for saving this CRT from dying, and thanks to @Eminiteable for helping discuss some scaling issues with me.
 
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