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Onigashima Zoro, Drake, and Onimaru CRT, including a minor change for Zoro's first 2 Post-Timeskip keys

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In the wake of a recently finished Zoro and Drake CRT, I found some more stuff which concerns Base Wano Zoro, Base X Drake, and Onimaru.

1. Onimaru drew blood from Kawamatsu, who is Scabbard lvl 6-A and tanked hits from Kaido.

2. In connection to this, Zoro matched Onimaru.

3. While Killer was not at peak AP against Zoro due to not having his Sonic Scythes (going by his statement), his durability shouldn't be much lower than its usual 6-a level, so Zoro defeating Killer with a Buso attack should still be a 6-A feat.

4. As was mentioned in the previous thread linked above, X Drake was able to briefly defend against an attack from Yamato albeit he was knocked back from the hit. As with Zoro, blocking an attack in a way like that should be an AP feat for Base Drake that should let his Base downscale to Baseline 6-A since he was still knocked back by the hit, which is supported by him being shown fighting Apoo in base with injuries that his Zoan form did not have, implying that for at least some of his off-screen bout with Apoo he was in Base.

4.5. Speaking of Drake, I think his Zoan form should scale to 1 petaton durability due to both fighting Apoo off screen while he was using his 1 petaton sound attacks (and having injuries in Base that probably came from Apoo's sound attacks, as he is shown dodging some of them in base), and holding his own against the CP0 agent who not only tanked a Boom from Apoo (which scales to 1 petaton due to knocking out Post Udon Luffy who in base has 1 petaton durability) and is comparable to his other top masked agents, who weren't too damaged after being attacked point blank by Kazenbo, which damaged Yamato.

His Zoan AP still only scales above his 760 teraton base AP due to him still losing against the CP0 leader and mainly damaging him with piercing damage, so it's better for him to just downscale (or rather, just upscale above his downscaled base).

This would mainly affect Buso Zoro, the latter of whom already one-shot Killer with Buso and Killer has 1 petaton durability. Being badly injured by blocking the Ocean Sovereignty with Buso Haki is not an anti-feat since both Kaido and Big Mom were in forms (Hybrid and 3-Homies) that scaled far above their base keys AND it was a combined attack.

Queen won't scale since it was only Base Drake who he damaged. Apoo also won't scale since he only blocked Zoro's weaker Nitoryu attacks with Buso and was easily defeated by a Goken attack.

As for the whole Zoro vs Hawkins thing:

1. It's only Base Hawkins that the Base Tobiroppo scale above (since it was only Base Hawkins that matched Dressrosa Arc Law), not the Straw Man card.

2. Zoro was busy trying to defend Tama.

3. Zoro still one-shot the Straw Man with Tower Climb and would've killed Hawkins were it not for him transferring the pain to someone else.


Because of these Zoro revision proposals, I think that Zoro's second key should be changed from "post-Enma training" to just "Wano arc" Zoro, and his first key should just be for Fishman Island and Dressrosa.

Yes he trained himself to improve his usage of Enma right before the Onigashima Raid, but this training was just to improve his control over Enma, and nothing says that this training improved the rest of his stats.

Killer still stays at 760 teratons despite injuring Zoro, since while he did draw blood Zoro was somewhat distracted by Onimaru AND was matching Killer in just his base and one-shot him with Buso.

Besides, his Base being Scabbard level 6-A would better explain how his Onigiri was able to make Kaido feel pain with a cut without any Buso whatsoever.

Edit:

5. Post Mink Zoro should have Asura mentioned in his post mink key as being "Far stronger than his previous Asura", since not only is Zoro himself stronger but he also isn't severely injured like he was when he used Asura against Kaido. Emin and I agreed that it should be put alongside Post Mink Medicine Zoro's Haoshoku Infusion and Unleashing Enma in the post-Mink Key

6. Apoo and Drake should also scale to Zoro's FTL speed, plus Drake should scale to reacting to Base Yamato.

7. I think that Zoro's "strongest moves" should thus be added to his base Wano key since he didn't use Buso Haki in that joint attack with Killer against Kaido. His Goken attack against Apoo can be added to his Buso Haki justification since IIRC Goken is still Buso Haki.
 
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1. Onimaru drew blood from Kawamatsu, who is Scabbard lvl 6-A and tanked hits from Kaido.

2. In connection to this, Zoro matched Onimaru.
If I remember right Damage brought up this feat before and supposedly this feat would only scale to Fox form Onimaru's bite and not his striking etc.

Although personally I'm not sure how I feel about Onimaru scaling to the feat at all, but I don't really care enough to debate against it.
3. While Killer was not at peak AP against Zoro due to not having his Sonic Scythes (going by his statement), his durability shouldn't be much lower than its usual 6-a level, so Zoro defeating Killer with a Buso attack should still be a 6-A feat.
I can agree with this, especially since Zoro implies on the rooftop the outcome of their fight wouldn't change even if Killer had his punishers.
As for the whole Zoro vs Hawkins thing:

1. It's only Base Hawkins that the Base Tobiroppo scale above (since it was only Base Hawkins that matched Dressrosa Arc Law), not the Straw Man card.

2. Zoro was busy trying to defend Tama.

3. Zoro still one-shot the Straw Man with Tower Climb and would've killed Hawkins were it not for him transferring the pain to someone else.
I can also agree with this, Hawkins was confident in his Straw-man being capable of killing Killer (who base obviously has no chance against) thus there should be no issue with the Straw-man scaling above Hawkins base statistics.

Hawkins would probably look something like this then:
Large Island level (Kept up with Post-Dressrosa Trafalgar Law, being able to casually stop his sword blows[1]), Continent level with Ware-Ware no mi (Could match blows with nitoryu Zoro, his Vivre Card states that his Goma no So is equal to Killer[2])
Because of these Zoro revision proposals, I think that Zoro's second key should be changed from "post-Enma training" to just "Wano arc" Zoro, and his first key should just be for Fishman Island and Dressrosa.

Yes he trained himself to improve his usage of Enma right before the Onigashima Raid, but this training was just to improve his control over Enma, and nothing says that this training improved the rest of his stats.
Yeah I agree
 
If I remember right Damage brought up this feat before and supposedly this feat would only scale to Fox form Onimaru's bite and not his striking etc.
But is the power of his human form (which IIRC is basically his Zoan form) really so different in power from his base?

If others also think Onimaru's striking is not the same as his bite then I'll drop this but for the moment I disagree and think that Human Onimaru's AP = Normal Onimaru.
Although personally I'm not sure how I feel about Onimaru scaling to the feat at all, but I don't really care enough to debate against it.
Let's see what others think.
I can agree with this, especially since Zoro implies on the rooftop the outcome of their fight wouldn't change even if Killer had his punishers.
Tbf that could just be Zoro's pride but you do have a point.

Not to mention Killer drew blood from Zoro.
I can also agree with this, Hawkins was confident in his Straw-man being capable of killing Killer (who base obviously has no chance against) thus there should be no issue with the Straw-man scaling above Hawkins base statistics.

Hawkins would probably look something like this then:
Looks good.
Yeah I agree
Yay
 
Honestly this makes Denjiro and Zoro going blow for blow a pretty decent support feat for Zoro
 
And Base Zoro matching Base Drake who FRA is also scabbard lvl makes Base Wano Zoro 6-A, and IMO his strongest moves being 6-A should just be added to his base.

He'd be 6-A, higher with Buso, even higher with Enma unleashed, far higher with Asura.
 
Emin is not sure about Onimaru's bite strength scaling to his striking strength, but I disagree.
Why would you disagree? It's basic physics, it was done by a bite attack which is dependent on the length of the teeth of the animal. Oni is small, so it's more comparable to let's say a Scottie biting you, it isn't because of the bite force but because of how long those teeth are. Canine's typically have larger teeth for biting.
 
Why would you disagree? It's basic physics, it was done by a bite attack which is dependent on the length of the teeth of the animal. Oni is small, so it's more comparable to let's say a Scottie biting you, it isn't because of the bite force but because of how long those teeth are. Canine's typically have larger teeth for biting.
What I meant was that, since Onimaru's fox form drew blood from Kawamatsu with a bite, his human form's AP should be comparable to the bite of his fox form
 
He said "It hurt, but luckily this thing is durable"
Screen_Shot_2022-08-04_at_8.46.41_PM.png
 
I'm sorry, but just the fact that he got hurt by the weakest Tobiroppo makes me very uncomfortable scaling his durability to Scabbard level.

It's not like Zoro who has like a half dozen supporting feats for being Scabbard lvl.

If others agree with you Kachon then fine but for now I'm not sure.
 
I'm sorry, but just the fact that he got hurt by the weakest Tobiroppo makes me very uncomfortable scaling his durability to Scabbard level.

It's not like Zoro who has like a half dozen supporting feats for being Scabbard lvl.

If others agree with you Kachon then fine but for now I'm not sure.
Like I said, it could be an outlier. 1 feat of him getting hurt vs 2+ feats of him destroying Page One, 1 feat of him tanking Drake's attack, 2 anime feats of him harming Drake, and Diable in the Manga being confident enough to take on Drake in a 1v1.
 
Like I said, it could be an outlier. 1 feat of him getting hurt vs 2+ feats of him destroying Page One, 1 feat of him tanking Drake's attack, 2 anime feats of him harming Drake, and Diable in the Manga being confident enough to take on Drake in a 1v1.
Fair point.

I'll wait to see what others think.
 
I agree.

Would this make Pre-Raid Sanji's durability scabbard level?
You cannot deny page one hurt Sanji Through raid suit. But also Sanji taking hit from Drake.
Didnt the X drake fight happen after Page one fight? He could be more durable after the page one fight. Wearing The raid suit could affect Sanji in some way making everything looks very consistent.
 
You cannot deny page one hurt Sanji Through raid suit. But also Sanji taking hit from Drake.
Didnt the X drake fight happen after Page one fight? He could be more durable after the page one fight. Wearing The raid suit could affect Sanji in some way making everything looks very consistent.
Maybe we could put pre-Raid Suit Wano Sanji combined with his WCI Key, and after that we'll have "Post Raid-Suit Sanji", since it was after all the raid suit that buffed his durability.

Also explains how he went from struggling against a Tobiroppo to matching King's kicks and queen's attacks.

On a related note, I think Onigashima (or post Raid Suit) Sanji should be "6-A, higher with Diable Jambe, even higher with Raid suit" since the raid suit boosts AP for all his other siblings so it should also do so for him.
 
Maybe we could put pre-Raid Suit Wano Sanji combined with his WCI Key, and after that we'll have "Post Raid-Suit Sanji", since it was after all the raid suit that buffed his durability.

Also explains how he went from struggling against a Tobiroppo to matching King's kicks and queen's attacks.

On a related note, I think Onigashima (or post Raid Suit) Sanji should be "6-A, higher with Diable Jambe, even higher with Raid suit" since the raid suit boosts AP for all his other siblings so it should also do so for him.
I would separate to 3 categories. Early wano/ pre raid suit, post page one fight, and onigashima for this case.
 
I would separate to 3 categories. Early wano/ pre raid suit, post page one fight, and onigashima for this case.
I was just planning to include the post-page one stuff into his pre-exoskeleton key.

But why do we need an Early Wano key when he doesn't scale any differently than WCI Sanji before he got the Raid Suit?
 
On a related note, I think Onigashima (or post Raid Suit) Sanji should be "6-A, higher with Diable Jambe, even higher with Raid suit" since the raid suit boosts AP for all his other siblings so it should also do so for him.
 
I would separate to 3 categories. Early wano/ pre raid suit, post page one fight, and onigashima for this case.
Seems like unneccesary clutter on his page when his scaling barely changes, if the drake durability feat is that necessary just add it as a justification for Onigashima Raid Sanji's durability.
 
Seems like unneccesary clutter on his page when his scaling barely changes, if the drake durability feat is that necessary just add it as a justification for Onigashima Raid Sanji's durability.
That's a good idea actually.

Also, what do you think of making Pre-Awakening onigashima raid Sanji: "6-A, higher with Diable jambe, even higher with Raid Suit"?

As I already said, if the Raid Suit boosts AP for the other Vinsmokes, why not Sanji?
 
I don't see that on their profiles
Oh wait, it's actually not (honestly didn't notice), but the 3 Vinsmoke Siblings were able to break Perospero's Candy Wall with Raid Suits when afterwards they were unable to break free from Perospero's candy without the suits. Also, that's why the Vinsmokes said that without their raid suits to aid against the BM Pirates they were in huge trouble

But now that I realize that it's not on their profiles (although I coulda sworn they used to be there...), I won't cry if it's not added.
 
Oh wait, it's actually not (honestly didn't notice), but the 3 Vinsmoke Siblings were able to break Perospero's Candy Wall with Raid Suits when afterwards they were unable to break free from Perospero's candy without the suits.
True, maybe you should make a separate CRT for the raid suits, this one seems bloated already. You can bring up that evidence and anything else you find.
 
True, maybe you should make a separate CRT for the raid suits, this one seems bloated already. You can bring up that evidence and anything else you find.
Will do.

So now that we've more or less settled the Sanji stuff do we need any more people to agree with the OP?
 
if the drake durability feat is that necessary just add it as a justification for Onigashima Raid Sanji's durability.
No. That was Pre-Raid Sanji. Just do what I proposed.

Like I said, it could be an outlier. 1 feat of him getting hurt vs 2+ feats of him destroying Page One, 1 feat of him tanking Drake's attack, 2 anime feats of him harming Drake, and Diable in the Manga being confident enough to take on Drake in a 1v1.
 
No. That was Pre-Raid Sanji. Just do what I proposed.
Fine his durability just doesn't scale then, Page One overpowered him and barely got hurt by his regular strikes, he hurt Sanji through the raid suit and Sanji was unable to even make Drake react to his attacks.

Page One scaling to Sanji isn't the outlier, Sanji is as his attacks failed to do anything to Drake.
 
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