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Minor justification cut for King, and Kaifu revision.

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1.

Zoan King's AP justification says the following:

"His Hybrid Form sent Zoro flying with a single slash and cut Hybrid Queen, and he threatened to slice his neck"

I believe the bolded part should be removed from King's AP justification.

It was clearly just a hostile jab at Queen (I don't doubt King could do it if he wanted to, but they were jabbing at each other throughout the Wano Arc), and we already have it stated that his Danmaku cut Zoan Queen's hide, so him threatening Queen is not necessary.



2. I've mentioned this in the past so Imma CRT it so no one has to hear me wallow about this anymore:

Ok, so currently Killer's AP and the Kaifu's as a whole simply scale far above Kiku's durability (which scales to both taking off-screen hits from Kaido [as shown by her bruises in chapter 994] and being comparable to Kawamatsu, who took a casual blow from Dragon Kaido and was relatively fine besides some bruises).

Zoro also effortlessly blocked a Kaifu, but his Buso scales to blocking the Hakai, which puts his rooftop Buso AP/durability as >= the durability of Killer, Kidd, Law, and Luffy (since while the Hakai broke his bones, he didn't die even though it would've killed the other 4 Supernovas), so he already scales to the God-Tier value.

Now, the Kaifu feat itself is fine. However, the Kaifu has been shown to have scaling far above their current status of just being above the Scabbards.


2A. As we can see in this compilation of panels (collected by @Fireld, kudos to him), the Kaifu and Tatsumaki Kaifu made the likes of Law (who took hits from Big Mom and a Thunder Bagua from Kaido, although the latter did notably hurt him), Killer himself (who took lightning attacks from Big Mom and was fine), Gear 4th Post-Udon Luffy (who tanked Kaido's Bolo Breath with zero issue), and even Gear 5 Luffy dodge them.

2B. His Tatsumaki Kaifu drew blood from Gear 5 Luffy. Now, Gear 5th Luffy's durability is obviously well above Killer and Rooftop Buso Zoro's AP, but keep in mind that G5 Luffy was also notably hurt by Kaido's Bolo Breath, which his much weaker Post-Udon Gear 4th easily tanked with no damage. Long story short, his durability is weird.

2C. Honestly, a good supporting fact is simply how it one-shot Kiku, who along with the other Scabbards took casual hits from him off-screen (and on-screen in Kawamatsu's case).


This would only apply to Killer's AP (as in on the rooftop with the Scythes, not the weaker scythe-less version who fought Zoro). As I said above, Zoro already scales to the God-Tier value via the Hakai, but this would make that more consistent.

Since all High 6-A people scale to the same value at the moment, this would just lead to a minor justification edit for Killer and Zoro.
 
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2B. His Tatsumaki Kaifu drew blood from Gear 5 Luffy. Now, Gear 5th Luffy's durability is obviously well above Killer and Rooftop Buso Zoro's AP, but keep in mind that G5 Luffy was also notably hurt by Kaido's Bolo Breath, which his much weaker Post-Udon Gear 4th easily tanked with no damage. Long story short, his durability is weird.
orrrr.... cutting attacks are luffys weakness?
 
Still on phone, oof.
You didn't finish the sentence, you meant to say make them dodge, right? Just cuz they tough enough to survive attacks from the Yonko doesn't meant they always have to counter or try to tank them all the time. So the Kaifu~a simular level of those other named Yonko attacks like Tenjin. (Thanks for the Kudos)
Boundman & Snakeman weren't burned much by the Zoan Kaido's Bolo Breath, base Luffy blocked Hybrid Kaido's BB while G5th gets burned pitch black twice, how does this make sense? Luffy's lower forms had Koka active which would've better protected him from the heat.
 
Additional proposal: Queen's Zoan form's durability should note how he took hits from Big Mom at Udon (although blood did come from his mouth), and only pretended to be knocked out before using Brachio Bomber on her.

Not sure if Brachio Bomber is an AP feat.
 
Additional proposal: Queen's Zoan form's durability should note how he took hits from Big Mom at Udon (although blood did come from his mouth), and only pretended to be knocked out before using Brachio Bomber on her.

Not sure if Brachio Bomber is an AP feat.
Eh it's true she didn't knock him out but he still got rocked by it and put in base form.
Brachio Bomber is just him kind of compressing her head.
Like pushing on her head.
 
Only the second hit, first one didn't.
Further supports that he took hits from her with minor to moderate damage at best, IIRC he wasn't even that wounded after knocking her out.

Broke her skull
Really?

I thought it just rattled her brains (like what happens when you give someone a concussion).

I mean, it's still more impressive than base Kidd's attacks against her, but still.
 
Further supports that he took hits from her with minor to moderate damage at best, IIRC he wasn't even that wounded after knocking her out.
Second hit wounded him a bit
JrDeXq7.png

Really?

I thought it just rattled her brains (like what happens when you give someone a concussion).

I mean, it's still more impressive than base Kidd's attacks against her, but still.
Crack sound effect was shown which indicates bones breaking as is used in similar instances.
 
Second hit wounded him a bit
JrDeXq7.png
OK, although that still isn't too much damage all things considered.
Crack sound effect was shown which indicates bones breaking as is used in similar instances.

OK.

Although considering she was tired and hungry and he took her by surprise, this is probably a feat that supports his Zoan AP downscaling from BM.

Last time someone tried to scale Queen to the god-tier AP value...it didn't go well.

But then again, considering Kingtempest himself recently said that Hybrid Queen is comparable to Base King, his opinion on this may have changed.
 
Although considering she was tired and hungry and he took her by surprise, this is probably a feat that supports his Zoan AP downscaling from BM.

Last time someone tried to scale Queen to the god-tier AP value...it didn't go well.
Her being tired and hungry would only be support for her AP being lower at most, her durability wasn't shown to have lowered.
 
Her being tired and hungry would only be support for her AP being lower at most, her durability wasn't shown to have lowered.
I mean I guess.

It's honestly better than like half of Kid's feats, as I already stated

Also, for Queen's dura-neg lasers, I feel like a good justification would be how both Sanji AND Zoro, the latter of whom had taken hits earlier from Big Mom's lightning, were forced to dodge his light/laser beams.

Kinda like how we list dura neg justifications for Franky's Radical Beam, which is just like Queen's own lasers.
Would she have her passive invisible armament haki in that state?
Did she always have it before the amnesia?
 
Would she have her passive invisible armament haki in that amensia state?
Would depend on why it's passive in the first place & Honestly I have no idea.
Also, for Queen's dura-neg lasers, I feel like a good justification would be how both Sanji AND Zoro, the latter of whom had taken hits earlier from Big Mom's lightning, were forced to dodge his light/laser beams.

Kinda like how we list dura neg justifications for Franky's Radical Beam, which is just like Queen's own lasers.
Could add that, main thing for them should be that they're copies of Kizaru's lasers tho.
 
I mean, Queen is consistently and constantly portrayed as almost King's equal.

Hell, his base alone was heavily implied to be above Jack's Zoan due to how scared and submissive Jack was around his base.

A 'higher' rating with Flying Pan should be implimented.
Why Flying Pan?

i agree with temp tbh

dont mind downscaling queens stronger attacks to base bm tho
Asides from Brachio Bomber, are there any attacks of his that are notable for being among his best moves?
 
Also, people say Marco "bAdLY InjURED" his Base and Zoan, yet his base despite being ambushed and not guarding had some slices and a sore head, while his Zoan did not seem to be slowed down by his injury to Marco's shockwave.
 
Hell, his base alone was heavily implied to be above Jack's Zoan due to how scared and submissive Jack was around his base.
I don't see where it's implied.
I mean, Queen is consistently and constantly portrayed as almost King's equal.
Queen's definitely the third strongest among the beast pirates but besides working together a lot they weren't portrayed as close equals.
 
Asides from Brachio Bomber, are there any attacks of his that are notable for being among his best moves?
vinesmoke abilities upscale since theyre his secret special attacks
Also, people say Marco "bAdLY InjURED" his Base and Zoan, yet his base despite being ambushed and not guarding had some slices and a sore head, while his Zoan did not seem to be slowed down by his injury to Marco's shockwave.
well the profile says luffy badly damaged kaido in base, badly damaged aka slightly bruised

i do think zoan queen is close to marco and king but base not really
 
vinesmoke abilities upscale since theyre his secret special attacks
K
well the profile says luffy badly damaged kaido in base, badly damaged aka slightly bruised
Fair, if I could change Luffy's justification I would but it's locked.

His profile should also note that he used regular Buso to punch Zoan Kaido, not Emission, since the anime just confirmed that he used normal buso.
i do think zoan queen is close to marco and king but base not really
Agreed, Base Sanji and Base Queen are not on that level.

But Marco calling Sanji a "star" does seem to imply that he viewed DJ Sanji as >= to him.
 
Also, Zoan Queen was unharmed from the impact that cracked tired BM's skull, so that's an impressive durability feat.

Dude is a tank.
 
But Marco calling Sanji a "star" does seem to imply that he viewed DJ Sanji as >= to him.
ehhhhhhhhhhhh, not that good i dont like implications, too vague

one thing i find funny is how luffys profile says the over kong gun hurt kaido when he straight up nearly killed luffy right after
Also, Zoan Queen was unharmed from the impact that cracked tired BM's skull, so that's an impressive durability feat.

Dude is a tank.
then we have to remove the "can fight chopper who can hurt him" because chopper barely did anything and he sure as hell isnt on that level
 
one thing i find funny is how luffys profile says the over kong gun hurt kaido when he straight up nearly killed luffy right after
Same, that OKG didn't even do that much damage.
then we have to remove the "can fight chopper who can hurt him" because chopper barely did anything and he sure as hell isnt on that level
MP Chopper should just downscale since while he did hurt Zoan Queen, Queen was clearly not serious and was ******* around.

Jack knows of Queen's zoan tho, idk if it's implied there that Base Queen is above Zoan Jack.
True, but this happened before the story had revealed it, and the narrative seemed to be implying that Queen and King as a whole were just on another level compared to Jack.

Even a younger and weaker Queen had no issue trading blows with Denjiro (Queen didn't even use a sword).
 
Same, that OKG didn't even do that much damage.
dragon kaido has so much better dura feats than hybrid but thats not for this thread (people say hybrid is more durable but i dont think it was stated)
MP Chopper should just downscale since while he did hurt Zoan Queen, Queen was clearly not serious and was ******* around.
it was blood from his mouth he didnt do damage but he did fight him offscreen so scaling to ap is fine
 
True, but this happened before the story had revealed it, and the narrative seemed to be implying that Queen and King as a whole were just on another level compared to Jack.

Even a younger and weaker Queen had no issue trading blows with Denjiro (Queen didn't even use a sword).
They are being portrayed on another level compared to Jack, just not sure that's implying their base are on another level compared to this zoan.

This is fine.
 
They are being portrayed on another level compared to Jack, just not sure that's implying their base are on another level compared to this zoan.
I mean, you make a good argument, I just personally feel that Jack's fear of them before their Zoans were even revealed implies that both their bases are above his Zoan form.
This is fine.
Thanks.

It's just like how Base King easily defeated Raizo during Oden's fight with Kaido.
dragon kaido has so much better dura feats than hybrid but thats not for this thread (people say hybrid is more durable but i dont think it was stated)
It's anime-only.
it was blood from his mouth he didnt do damage but he did fight him offscreen so scaling to ap is fine
No, Kingtempest showed how it also made Queen's cheek slightly bleed.

But at the same time, Queen was messing around, so MP Chopper would downscale.
 
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