One Piece: Yamato CRT

[Eminiteable]

There's a few justification's on Yamato's Page that I don't believe are entirely accurate, this isn't a change in tiers at all but rather wording:

Base Form:

Attack Potency: Continent level (Should be comparable to or stronger than Base Kaidou due to their Zoan Forms matching each other, with Kaidou having had his Devil Fruit for longer than Yamato, meaning his Zoan Forms should provide a superior amplification of power than Yamato's Devil Fruit.)

This is probably the main Issue I have with the current justifications, while I understand where the logic is coming from I'm not sure it applies here.

While it is true that Hybrid Kaidou's Bolo Breath and Hybrid Yamato's Namuji Hyoga matched equally the same definitely can't be said for their physicals which as highlighted by Kaidou's vivre card is the main attribute that is increased in this specific state. Yamato in multiple instances was blatantly overpowered rather casually when it came to physical clashes:

1. Kaidou with one arm was pushing back Yamato on the defensive who was blocking with both arms.
2. A one handed strike sent a blocking Yamato flying
3. Effortlessly deflected their two handed flying strike with one arm
4. A one arm flying strike completely overpowered Yamato while blocking with both arms
5. A one handed strike sent Yamato to the ground

Yet we're claiming because their elemental attacks matched that Base Yamato's physicals should be equal to if not greater than Base Kaidou's physicals, despite being drastically inferior physically to Hybrid Kaidou.

Zoan Forms:

higher in Zoan Forms (Fought and parried blows from Hybrid Form Kaidou[1])

This is accurate, but like I brought up above Hybrid Yamato's physicals weren't equal to Hybrid Kaidou's physicals and in this instance Kaidou only required one arm to essentially keep them on the defensive, thus I think it should be brought up to not cause confusion for this specific justification.

 

[Eseseso]

Well base yamato did block a strike from Hybrid Kaido, but yeah the rest of their fight she got overpowered, so this looks good.

What will her new base justification be?

 

[Rozi]

this looks good

 

[Mariogoods]

It seems fine.

 

[Fikriskps]

Cool

 

[Rozi]

I'm still confused why Yamato is a boy in his profile, isn't he Kaido's daughter?

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

I'm still confused why Yamato is a boy in his profile, isn't he Kaido's daughter?

Yamato admires Oden, so she decided to be like him and now identifies herself as a man, but what pronouns to use for his/her profile is really a hot mess…

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I'm still confused why Yamato is a boy in his profile, isn't he Kaido's daughter?

Yamato admires Oden, so she decided to be like him and now identifies herself as a man, but what pronouns to use for his/her profile is really a hot mess…

Don't.
It's best to avoid the topic entirely

 

[LordGinSama]

Agreed.

 

[Mariogoods]

By the way, maybe it is better to provide the references of aforementioned feats for Yamato because of the References rule.

 

[Eminiteable]

Her page has references added already.

 

[Eseseso]

So what should her new justifications be?

 

[Eminiteable]

Kazenbo and Drake I guess

 

[Eseseso]

Kazenbo and Drake I guess

Drake is fine, since Base Drake scales to casual Base Zoro and Apoo, but Kazenbo scales directly to Yamato.

Is Base Yamato only gonna be scabbard level?

 

[Eminiteable]

Pretty sure the Kazenbo also scales to the CP0 People

 

[Eseseso]

Pretty sure the Kazenbo also scales to the CP0 People

Ehhh, that Kazenbo only did a moderate bit of damage which they recovered from after a moment.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I'm looking through better justifications for everyone. Base Yamato kinda sucks because they rely way too much on their Haoshoku

 

[Eseseso]

I mean didn't she block one blow from Hybrid Kaido in Base when Momo was fleeing and Kaido tried attacking him?

Also did Yamato even hurt Kaido?

 

[Eminiteable]

I mean didn't she block one blow from Hybrid Kaido in Base when Momo was fleeing and Kaido tried attacking him?

If we're taking that to mean base Yamato matched Hybrid Kaidou in AP then that's extremely inconsistent.

 

[Eseseso]

If we're taking that to mean base Yamato matched Hybrid Kaidou in AP then that's extremely inconsistent.

No, but it shows she is at least somewhat comparable.

 

[Eminiteable]

To Hybrid Kaidou in base? She isn't, it's more likely that Kaidou wasn't going all out with the attack or that simply briefly blocking and attack doesn't make you comparable (as seen with other characters)

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Me remembering the disgusting scaling of X Drake being 6-A

That’s pure cap

 

[Eseseso]

Me remembering the disgusting scaling of X Drake being 6-A

That’s pure cap

You mean base X drake or in general?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

You mean base X drake or in general?

I mean in general, X Drake shouldn’t be 6-A

 

[Eseseso]

I mean in general, X Drake shouldn’t be 6-A

In Base he fought Apoo offscreen and seemed confident that he could kill him in base, while in Hybrid he held off the CP0 agents who badly damaged Apoo and took a 1-petaton boom, with the CP0 leader calling him a good fight and even bleeding even before Drake impaled him.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

In Base he fought Apoo offscreen and seemed confident that he could kill him in base, while in Hybrid he held off the CP0 agents who badly damaged Apoo and took a 1-petaton boom, with the CP0 leader calling him a good fight and even bleeding even before Drake impaled him.

That doesn’t matter at all, he’s weaker than Jack, who’s weaker than the Scabbards, who’s weaker than Queen and King, who scale to Marco, who is the source of 6-A scaling

He flat out should not be scaling from a Marco result. Hell I don’t even think Apoo should scale cause early Raid feats aren’t even remotely comparable to Roof Piece feats.

 

[Eseseso]

That doesn’t matter at all, he’s weaker than Jack, who’s weaker than the Scabbards, who’s weaker than Queen and King, who scale to Marco, who is the source of 6-A scaling

Apoo should also be weaker than Jack, yet we have him at 6-A.

Hell I don’t even think Apoo should scale cause early Raid feats aren’t even remotely comparable to Roof Piece feats.

Ya know, you make some sense yet at the same time since Roof Piece is literally minutes after early raid feats there is no way for us to say that their feats aren't connected.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ya know, you make some sense yet at the same time since Roof Piece is literally minutes after early raid feats there is no way for us to say that their feats aren't connected.

Bruh Apoo’s only Durability feat is getting ******* wrecked by a Punk Gibson, yet we still scale him to it…

 

[Eseseso]

Bruh Apoo’s only Durability feat is getting ******* wrecked by a Punk Gibson, yet we still scale him to it…

I mean he was still conscious, and asides from some blood from his mouth Apoo seemed honestly fine.

Keep in mind he was pretty off guard and Kid was ******* pissed when this happened.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean he was still conscious, and asides from some blood from his mouth Apoo seemed honestly fine.

Keep in mind he was pretty off guard and Kid was ******* pissed when this happened.

Nah fam, these guys shouldn’t be 6-A

 

[Damage3245]

Kid's Punk Gibson didn't really do all that much to Big Mom in the first place to be honest, so making Apoo comparable to Big Mom for this is a bit weird.

 

[Eseseso]

Kid's Punk Gibson didn't really do all that much to Big Mom in the first place to be honest, so making Apoo comparable to Big Mom for this is a bit weird.

I always thought that Base Kid in general just scaled for fighting BM off-screen so Apoo scaled for taking an attack from a really pissed full power Kid

 

[Fireld]

I'm ok with the new Hybrid scaling; the old scaling for Base might still work. Kaido had 38 years of expirience with his DF while Yamato had no training with it priror to the fight, giving her barely a boost. It's like base Kaku being relative to Zoro & Zoro priror to Asura was still able to somewhat compete Kaku when he was using different zoan forms+rokushiki techniques. Base Kaido<Base/Hybrid Yamato<Hybrid Kaido. You gave the benifit of the doubt about "putting your hands in pockets doesn't make sb casual", but "using 1 arm is pretty casual" to you. Aside from the Thunder Bagua clash; she did survive another no-name, 2-handed kanabo strike coated with haoshoku haki & blocked 3 one-handed strikes in a row. Despite not being complete equals in physicals they're still relative, as she made him kneel, respect her strength, broke his guard once, made him counter her moves instead of just tanking them, left lasting bruises, had an offscreen haki clash & they both were fatigued enough from their fight to briefly revert to base. With Snakeman, Kanzebo & Drake feats, it should be noted she was already weakened from the Kaido fight when doing them.

To Hybrid Kaidou in base? She isn't, it's more likely that Kaidou wasn't going all out with the attack or that simply briefly blocking and attack doesn't make you comparable (as seen with other characters)

He had killing intent, bothered to use a named attack(the Boro Breath), used both hands in his swing & likely did see Yamato on Momo before that attack. Also other characters scaling to each other with 1 clash.

 

[Eminiteable]

I'm ok with the new Hybrid scaling; the old scaling for Base might still work. Kaido had 38 years of expirience with his DF while Yamato had no training with it priror to the fight, giving her barely a boost. It's like base Kaku being relative to Zoro & Zoro priror to Asura was still able to somewhat compete Kaku when he was using different zoan forms+rokushiki techniques.

I don't know where this idea came from that Yamato had no training with their fruit before the fight, they and Kaidou were both well aware of their devil fruit powers years prior and we already know they had fought Kaidou many times before. Yamato had created many techniques based around their devil fruit and was skilled in using it. They by no means were using their fruit for the first time.

You gave the benifit of the doubt about "putting your hands in pockets doesn't make sb casual", but "using 1 arm is pretty casual" to you. Aside from the Thunder Bagua clash; she did survive another no-name, 2-handed kanabo strike coated with haoshoku haki & blocked 3 one-handed strikes in a row.

This isn't comparable, in these instances they were using their legs (kicks) to clash not their arms. If characters consistently use both hands when exhibiting their full power I wouldn't claim someone was equal when they're getting casually overpowered with one arm.

This isn't a debate about durability, although in the case of them taking those attacks that does nothing for AP. That's endurance and Durability.

Yamato blocking several one-handed attacks (while also being pushed back) also doesn't make them have equal AP.

Despite not being complete equals in physicals they're still relative, as she made him kneel, respect her strength, broke his guard once,

This CRT is to establish that they're not equal in physicals and that there is a notable difference. While they would stills scale to the same tier there isn't anything proving them relative in the scaling sense when it comes to their physicals.

Yamato matching the Boro breath, breaking his one armed guard and knocking him to the ground are all when enhanced with their mythical zoan powers and aren't an example of their physical strength alone.

He had killing intent, bothered to use a named attack(the Boro Breath), used both hands in his swing & likely did see Yamato on Momo before that attack.

Regardless, if you're trying to claim it makes Base Yamato ~ Full power Hybrid Kaidou in physicals then it's heavily contradicted by their other feats in Hybrid. We don't scale other characters equal like that for blocking; an example being that we don't treat base Zoro being equal to the combined force of Hybrid Kaidou and Cognac Big Mom.

Also other characters scaling to each other with 1 clash.

Which ones, if it's Big Mom or Oden they matched his clash with one hand as well.

 

[Eseseso]

Honestly I'm fine with the OP, my only concern is if Base Yamato is still 1 petaton.

Although I think that her base blocking a Hybrid Kaido blow means that she is below him but on a comparable level.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

That doesn’t matter at all, he’s weaker than Jack, who’s weaker than the Scabbards, who’s weaker than Queen and King, who scale to Marco, who is the source of 6-A scaling

He flat out should not be scaling from a Marco result. Hell I don’t even think Apoo should scale cause early Raid feats aren’t even remotely comparable to Roof Piece feats.

Scabbards can each harm Base Kaidou. So nah, Marco is far, FAR from being the source for 6-A. Also, Jack isn't significantly weaker than the Scabbards.

 

[Fireld]

I don't know where this idea came from that Yamato had no training with their fruit before the fight, they and Kaidou were both well aware of their devil fruit powers years prior and we already know they had fought Kaidou many times before. Yamato had created many techniques based around their devil fruit and was skilled in using it. They by no means was using their fruit for the first time.

Kaido says himself he wouldn't let her use freely the DF he searched for so long & she had the seastone handcuffs for 20 years; those previous fights must have taken place while she couldn't use her DF. As for the techniques, all of them are based on Kaido's moves which she has replicated after fighting him so long. Only the ice armor seems orignal(or maybe based on the fire dragon armor?). Also she didn't even have a kanabo during the Oden & daimyo flashbacks, possibly meaning this happened before her training. Kaku & Kaulifla were quite skilled & creative with DFs when using them for the 1st time in Enis Lobby.

This isn't comparable, in these instances they were using their legs (kicks) to clash not their arms. If characters consistently use both hands when exhibiting their full power I wouldn't claim someone was equal when they're getting casually overpowered with one arm.

This isn't a debate about durability, although in the case of them taking those attacks that does nothing for AP. That's endurance and Durability.

Yamato blocking several one-handed attacks (while also being pushed back) also doesn't make them have equal AP.

Then why don't we upscale early Marineford WB for redirecting Akainu's Hellhound with a one-handed naginata slash in the opposite, when see him use both hands for other opponents? Kaido using Haki, named techniques & bother to block attacks means he isn't completly casual here.

AP is to a degree comperable to Durability.

When did i say equal AP? I said relative. 3 one-hand hits in a row~1 two-handed hit. Barely pushed back & she jumps in his face the next panel. Don't forget the offscreen haki clash where they made the rooftop radiate with black lightning.

This CRT is to establish that they're not equal in physicals and that there is a notable difference. While they would stills scale to the same tier there isn't anything proving them relative in the scaling sense when it comes to their physicals.

Yamato matching the Boro breath, breaking his one armed guard and knocking him to the ground are all when enhanced with their mythical zoan powers and aren't an example of their physical strength alone.

I already agreed with them not being straight up equals of strength in hybrid modes. Still it's not like a 3.5+ times difference, they fought 1v1 bloodlusted for 9 chapters & both briefly reverted back to base after the fight.

Aside from the 2 breath attacks, everything was physical feats for the hybrids somewhat comperable. And i already explained above why Yamato doesn't have a big boost from the zoan form unlike Kaido.

Regardless, if you're trying to claim it makes Base Yamato ~ Full power Hybrid Kaidou in physicals then it's heavily contradicted by their other feats in Hybrid. We don't scale other characters equal like that for blocking; an example being that we don't treat base Zoro being equal to the combined force of Hybrid Kaidou and Cognac Big Mom.

More like Base Yamato~Hybrid Yamato~<Hybrid Kaido. Not a good comparison since in Zoro's case he broke all his bones after that. On one hand; you could argue since Kaido took that combination attack+get bitten by Momo+a few attacks from Luffy, he might've been slightly more weakened than her when they clashed hybrid to base. On the other hand, this might not have changed much, if anything, thanks to his extreme resilience & recovery rate.

Which ones, if it's Big Mom or Oden they matched his clash with one hand as well.

Big Mom swinged the sword with both hands just before the clash happened & Kaido's number of hands isn't clear in that shot(still equals in base anyway). When did Oden clash with 1 hand against him again?(Edit: Nevermind i found it myself.) I was talking scaling clashes in general, not with Kaido specifiaclly.

 

[Eminiteable]

Kaido says himself he wouldn't let her use freely the DF he searched for so long & she had the seastone handcuffs for 20 years; those previous fights must have taken place while she couldn't use her DF.

No he didn't, the fruit wasn't intended for them but they ate it anyways and both of them learned they had eaten the fruit.

Yamato's seastone cuffs just aren't strong enough to stop them from transforming then. There is nothing in the story even suggesting that this is the first time they've used their fruit.

Then why don't we upscale early Marineford WB for redirecting Akainu's Hellhound with a one-handed naginata slash in the opposite, when see him use both hands for other opponents? Kaido using Haki, named techniques & bother to block attacks means he isn't completly casual here.

Upscale to what? 1.032 PT isn't high enough to upscale to anything. Which opponents did Whitebeard us two quakes on and why is it relevant.

I never once claimed he was "completely casual" but the fact that he's overpowering her with less than half the force he's capable of shows that she's not physically his equal regardless of how he fights.

AP is to a degree comperable to Durability.

No it isn't.

When did i say equal AP? I said relative. 3 one-hand hits in a row~1 two-handed hit. Barely pushed back & she jumps in his face the next panel. Don't forget the offscreen haki clash where they made the rooftop radiate with black lightning.

That's not how it works. Again you're equating blocking to mean they're relative in AP while directly ignoring the on screen proof of their AP being compared and showing Yamato to be directly inferior.

What proof do you have of a haki clash, that occurs even when there is just one individual using Haki. A clash of Haoshoku also isn't relevant since this is regarding their hybrid and base physical ratings not Hao.

I already agreed with them not being straight up equals of strength in hybrid modes. Still it's not like a 3.5+ times difference, they fought 1v1 bloodlusted for 9 chapters & both briefly reverted back to base after the fight.

Who claimed it was a 3.5 times difference, the point of this CRT is to show that they aren't equal in physicals in hybrid this the justification for base is invalid.

More like Base Yamato~Hybrid Yamato~<Hybrid Kaido. Not a good comparison since in Zoro's case he broke all his bones after that. On one hand; you could argue since Kaido took that combination attack+get bitten by Momo+a few attacks from Luffy, he might've been slightly more weakened than her when they clashed hybrid to base. On the other hand, this might not have changed much, if anything, thanks to his extreme resilience & recovery rate.

There isn't evidence of Base Yamato being comparable to Hybrid Yamato, just an assumption you've made because you're assuming Yamato has never used their fruit before.

Hybrid Yamato < Hybrid Kaidou w/one arm < Hybrid Kaidou w/two arms.

They aren't that comparable like you're claiming. Actually it's a great comparison, having his bones be destroyed just proves his durability isn't that high, but if we took blocking an attack to mean they have relative AP it would mean base Zoro's AP is relative to the combined force of two Yonko.

Big Mom swinged the sword with both hands just before the clash happened & Kaido's number of hands isn't clear in that shot(still equals in base anyway).

Both clashed with one arm, that's why they're equals (you can't even provide evidence for why this is a one hand clash)

 

[Eseseso]

Wait a sec: Base Yamato hurt Dragon Momo, whose durability should scale to his 6-A AP that hurt Dragon Kaido and Greenbull

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Yamato's seastone cuffs just aren't strong enough to stop them from transforming then.

Absolutely not. Yamato tried to transform only, and I mean only after Luffy took out their cuffs. They do it immediately when faced with an enemy too.