No, were introduced to Yamato only after they met Luffy. Who fought people who weren't worth their fruit power.
No, I have no problem with saying this is Yamato's second, third, fourth use, I do not care.
When did i say he intended it for her? I said he didn't want her to use it freely after all he had to get thru to find the fruit. He could been informed by his underlings that she ate it. Say she had it for a few years before Oden's excecution or whatever, she still had no kanabo or fighting style at that time. She still has nowhere near the time to make the DF stronger like Kaido when the handcuffs came into play.
Who's talking about him using 2 quakes? I said he used his bisento with one hand(no devil fruit) to counter 1 of Akainu named attacks while enemy like Shanks & Oden forced him to use both hands making old WB upscale from Akainu even without quakes.
Already agreed she's weaker, just not by a huge margin.
If the difference isn't as big as that, then she still somewhat relative to him.
Or her having used it way less than Kaido who ~4 decades of expirience getting a lower amp+2 feats on panel. And you're assuming she can transform with handcuffs on.
I said BM used both hands just before the clash, not during it & Kaido literally had his hands covered in that shot. The anime made it clear with them using the same amount of hands in the clash.
So his Hybrid form heavily amps his physicals more than other things? As in, it amps it more than other zoans would?
Not to mention her blocking Hybrid Kaido's attack meant for the 6-A Dragon Momonosuke means her base should be weaker but still comparable to some extent to Hybrid Kaido
Those seastone handcuffs weren't used to restrict Yamato's strength, the explosives inside were meant to stop them from leaving the island.
It amps his physicals, it can be likely assumed it doesn't amp his element powers as much based on his perform against Luffy in hybrid and zoan.
Yeah this is basically the point of the CRT, I don't have an issue with saying Base Yamato is Kaidou level if they had feat but the current justification based on Hybrid isn't correct.
None really, she has feats to others but her regular base physicals don't have feats scaling to Base Kaidou.
Hand scaling via a multiplier is gone now, so Yamato would still scale to the same value but the actual justification and scaling chain would make her weaker just not by any direct value.
We quite literally do not know when Yamato got their DF power.
Why does that matter, when this was the claim you made which is ultimately false, the exploding handcuffs if she left the island was what was keeping her there.
Luffy's resistance to seastone still greatly weakens him and he notices it when it happens. He can't even use Haki when making contact.
There's not much evidence for seastone being there in the first place and is contradicted by other devil fruit users who made contact with her handcuffs.
He didn't say that.
I love when people change their mindset to fit a particular narrative.
I'm not allowed to change my opinion after several months then I guess.
I never looked into it strongly, I took the VC statement as fact and went with it. Looked into it and considering Luffy is literally unable to use haki when in contact with even weakened cuffs it heavily suggests that they aren't made of seastone. Being stated in the vivre cards doesn't mean that is is 100% accurate, those same vivre cards didn't list Yamato as a user of haoshoku haki and still don't to this day.
It states that, but we also know devil fruit users can't use haki when in contact with even weakened seastone.
that's omitted information, not contradictory information.
Let me put in a way that's respectful but also direct.
I'll make a thread at a later date regarding those handcuffs being seastone then.
He cannot, those instances were after Queen removed the seastone handcuffs and put on a prison collar (the same thing Yamato has referred but referred to as Prison shackles).
I see.
Seastone has no direct effect on Haki, the only reason why a DF user loses their ability to use Haki is because their stamina is sapped from them. Not only is Luffy stronger than he was when he was in prison, where he already had a very significant resistance to the substance, but it's also possible that the seastone cuff Yamato uses simply doesn't weaken them to the point where they can't use Haki.
Yamato gets seastone resistances from hao scaling in the first place due to being an advanced hao user. Their justification isn't for the handcuffs.
If the seastone was so weak that Haki was still effective and seemingly so weak that Luffy didn't even notice it was seastone then there isn't an argument in the first place that Yamato can't use their fruit. DF users can't use their fruit powers in seastone (or the ocean) due to the stamina drain, the same reason as haki, so assuming this seastone was so much weaker than the ones in udon that it's not even noticed then there isn't a strong argument to claim Yamato not using their fruit.
It isn't just Haki, both Luffy and Ace (with his fruit) made contact with Yamato's cuffs and made no mention of it weakening them; the idea that seastone has no effect on a DF user is unproven and can't simply be claimed because Luffy got stronger, a reminder that Shikki, Big Mom and Marco were all still effected by seastone and were aware of it when in contact.
You can't and shouldn't scale resistances.
Luffy got stronger and the Seastone was not in great quantities. Using characters being affected by what would be a stronger cuff is a non-issue. Nope. The material is stated to directly nullify Devil Fruit users abilities due to the energy of the sea, this is a power system weakness, it is not a consequence of stamina depletion, unlike Haki,band it's in effect regardless of the tangents.
Haoshoku scales via willpower which is what the resistance is based on, that's already accepted.
Luffy being stronger isn't the issue, sea stone drains his strength so him being in direct contact implies that it's so weak he no sells it (thus a haoshoku infusion user like Yamato would be immune to it to an even greater effect)
Ah, I misunderstood then.
He is literally not "affected" by the seastone, and still can't stretch. He can work, walk, move GIGANTIC STUFF, and the minions even go as far as joke about seastone even affecting them at all.
It does. The user can't use their power on their own. Luffy still has a rubber body but he cannot stretch on his own. Yamato still has Zoan durability and regeneration/stamina, but can't transform on their own.Devil fruit powers aren't nullified by sea stone or water, they're drained of their strength to even use them. Luffy in Udon is supposed to be struggling to even move with that level of sea stone but due to his willpower he's able to use some of his strength (It was noted by either him or Kid that they're weaker than they were) this lack of strength is why he can neither use his fruit powers or Haki (but is able to walk and use a minor amount of strength).
If Luffy and Ace felt no effects from seastone he would effectively be losing no strength by being in contact with them, allowing him to both use haki and his devil fruit freely.
Hard to take that as a serious feat when he wasn't prepared for it, and Yamato just hit him to bring him to his senses. It also did no lasting damage as far as I'm aware.
Aside from the number of hands, there's also Ulti mocking handcuffed Yamato's Thunder Bagua as 4 triagrams, instead of 8.
Ace's arm isn't even touching the seastone cuffs but the kanabo. The flames are redirected from the weapon sideways, 1 of her hands is cleary untouched by the fire while the other hand is behind the fire. If it was inside the fire we would have seen the hand or a shadow of it like we do with other character corvered with fire like angry Sanji, Burgess, BB, the rest of the crew gang, Raizo, Curiel, Luffy, Kaido etc. Even if the redirected flames would touch the cuffs it wouldn't weaken Ace as materials produced by a DF power can still make contact to seastone without weaking the user as long as their bodies aren't making contact with it. Like Mr.3's wax keys unlocking the seastone cuffs & Doflamingo's strings pushing a Slime Factory with outerwalls made by seastone. Shiki was already beaten by Garp+Sengoku, tortured for 2 weeks in Impel Down & in a bad mood before we see him in the cell. Marco had to check his hand to confirm he was cuffed by seastone & was still on his feet before Kizaru shot him. Big Mom, the most exposed one to seastone, was acting chill.
Wouldn't her base have gotten stronger after the hybrid fight thanks to AD? Several people in the verse get it from growing stronger in intense battles, she already mentions her beatdowns from Kaido in the past strengthening her & this could be another instance of that. Not only her base AP but also speed is better as she avoided a Bolo Breath & hit base Kaido almost as fast as Snakeman who fought Kaido's other forms.
So Yamato in base is getting downgraded to Scabbard level?
The fact Kaidou went Hybrid against them even before Yamato transformed should indicate the Scabbards are weaker.
Sorry, what I meant to ask was whether her base would be downgraded to 760 teratons even though her zoan forms are the same?
Physically, Hybrid Yamato is somewhat weaker than Hybrid Kaidou, but still somewhat comparable. Base Yamato shouldn't be downscaled to 760 Teratons because Base Kaidou is stronger than the 1 Petaton feat. As in, Base Yamato should be weaker, but relative, to Base Kaidou
I see...
It's also on base Big Mom's justification with no homies.
Yeah, that's also a problem.
Agree
