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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #7

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I feel like the scaling of Fujitora, the Yonkos, and the Yonko Commanders have been in Scaling Limbo forever
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Like I said, OP doesn't get the same spotlight Bleach or Naruto have so I'm not surprised that nobody has commented on that thread while they are commenting lots of things in other threads at the same time.
 
^Bleach has actually been in a limbo for a long time due to lack of staff and a refusal to allow knowledgeable experts to make decisions.
 
"OP doesn't get the same spotlight Bleach or Naruto have" =/= Bleach and Naruto don't suffer Limbo while OP does.
 
Fairy Tail does have a Limbo, it's like we have endless revisions every week about the same topic that was decided before
 
(Someone should get staff to delete that comment btw)

It's already been confirmed Jack is the weakest of the commanders (in regards to the Beast Pirates). All the commanders should be relative to eachother simply because each Yonko has been at war with another for decades, so it would be inconsistent for each commander to vary greatly in power.

  • I mean, look at Cracker and Katakuri. Both fared against Gear 4th Luffy quite evenly (ignoring context and ability advantages, of course). You can not tell me that there's a massive gap between these two and Smoothie--let alone claim Jack to be superior to any of them.
Personally, the only issue I see with the scaling is, if we separate Whole-Cake Luffy from Dressrosa Luffy (there's literally no difference outside of WC having 2 different transformation variants w/ G4--Bound Man still having the highest attack power, at least conventionally) would make someone like Doflamingo 7-A while the commanders lie in 6-C territory from scaling to Jack. Seems off, merely because of lore and the Shichibukai being noted as the only ones outside of the Admirals capable of preventing full on war between the Yonko. But if there's no arguement, that's that--but I'm still not seeing ANY reason to DENY the Bird-cage scaling to Doffy himself.

  • Also, Fujitora shouldn't scale to commanders (or Doflamingo--he only has reason to scale to Law and Gear 3rd Luffy). The fight with Jack was off-panel, and it is confirmed in databooks that Tsuru (unknown if Sengoku as well) fought Jack alongside Fujitora. We have no idea what happened outside of Jack's presumed death.
 
Its not like there is even agreement on how well Jack tanked the swing. Best to get that sorted before trying to apply the same standards to anyone with the rank of commander.

That said, I feel we should focus on birdcage first and foremost.
 
Let's consider what the durability of a single string would be using this method:

Ratio = 0.00889 / 789.15 = 0.00001126528

Energy = 4,0540,152,963.67 tons * 0.00001126528 = 456.7 kilotons [Large Town level]

This is also the same as using the 24% method and dividing by the number of strings that make up that 24%.

That'd be the durability value of an individual string of Doffy's at least. But I think that the durability of Doffy's strings clearly vary which is why some of Doffy's strings are weaker than others; attempts to explain the low-tier characters breaking strings aren't convincing and require more assumptions.

The 'several times' multiplier for Gear 4 doesn't hold up for trying to back-scale Gear 2 either. Luffy's Kong Gun punch is clearly way, way more powerful than his normal Gear 2 punches just by looking at what he did to Doffy and Cracker.
 
As I've literally told ALL of you before--the ratio method is invalid, so stop bringing it up (Couuuuugh... Calaca, Damage). As I've said time and time again, there's need of another method. Now quit bringing it up, it is irrelevant. Large Town threads wont work no matter how many times you try to argue it, and the "ratio" isn't gonna be 24%. Find me someone who actually knows physics and how the transferring of energy works before you bring something like this up for a 7th time. K, thx.

@Damage - Gear 2nd and 4th would be 3x in difference--and that's still a massive difference, and is NOT inconsistent with what had been shown--but if you want to persist: "several" could be listed anywhere between 3 to 8 (or 9, but i doubt that). A low end would be 1/8th of Gear 4th for Gear 2nd and 3rd using the statement. The only issue you've brought up is Gladius getting up from a Jet Stamp, yet that is not a durability feat--that would be a stamina feat assuming he did not tank the hit and it actually hurt him, not to mention Luffy was only trying to get Gladius to release Kyros, and then proceeded to run as requested by Viola. Unless now you're trying to imply Gladius > Base Luffy... Riiight. Also, getting up from a kick that has you sent flying and damaging you is a stamina feat.
 
@Cin; we were only discussing the ratio method because that was the previously agreed compromise.

So if Gladius getting hit and being sent flying isn't a durability feat for him, then is Jack being hit and sent flying (possibly being knocked unconscious) also not a durability feat?
 
It was agreed upon because "Doflamingo should not be scaling to the top tiers" and it would have placed him above every other feat up to that point. and that's the ONLY reason. And just because it "was agreed upon" before does not mean it is CORRECT. Try again~

I literally pointed out Luffy was holding back vs Gladius. Gladius can't scale if Luffy wasn't trying to really hurt him (No haki, no follow-up attack, immediately diverted his attention on Kyros, ran away with Viola, etc, etc...) and if he was still hurt that badly. And there's also things called outliers. Characters blocking a hit from a significantly stronger character is a commonly seen thing in Shounen manga in general, not just One Piece.

  • Same with the whole Chinjao case. Luffy hit him on top of his head to make him stop attacking him and Cavendish (Though Cavendish has enough to support him being above the Executives, and Chinjao nearly snapped his sword with his head), then they had a fight where both were clad in Haki, and Luffy only got truly serious when Ace was being slandered.
I'm not even discussing the Elephant trunk feat, but I'm pretty certain it's hard to tell one way or the other if Jack was fine after since 1) We don't see him actually damaged underwater, 2) but we do see that he coughed up blood and was knocked back, 3) we don't know if he passed out or not due to the cut away.

  • He should possibly scale merely because his body was not shown really damaged from a hit that connected to his entire front and also because the energy behind the hit was actually calculated. No bruise, no broken bones (stated or shown), he was already previously injured by Fujitora + Tsuru + possibly Sengoku, and only seen spitting up blood--possibly knocked unconscious, but it's unknown.
Now quit trying to take one situation and take the circumstances to work in another--completely different situation. It is nonsense. Zunisha was TRYING to get rid of Jack completely. Luffy was trying to save Kyros by making Gladius release him--not kill or KO Gladius.
 
@Cin; I don't know what you're telling me to try again. Ant was the one who said we would go back to the previous compromise if no better solution was found.

Personally I agree that we do need a more accurate way of calcing it, if one exists.

Regarding the Jack discussion, I'll save it for when we actually cover that topic.
 
The fact you've brought up the "Ratio" argument a 6th or 7th time in this entire discussion--when I've stated its flaws and inaccuracies--is ridiculous. It wasn't even made by someone who knew what they were doing (throwing shade at myself). It was only kept because the staff wanted there to be a visible difference between the high tiers (Doffy, G4 Luffy being Low 6-B at the time) and the Top tiers (Yonko, possibly Admirals being 6-B at the time). IDK why Calaca even brought it up later in the discussion when I stated it to wrong since early on.

If each thread were Large Town Durability, they'd snap immediately. It doesn't matter if there's only a small piece of the meteorite touching the thin threads. If a car comes into contact with a pole, the pole isn't just taking the energy from a percentage of the car that's touching it. It takes much more than that (ignoring the fact it bends and breaks). It's the same as here, except much worse because they are all connected at one point, meaning the amount of energy they'd have to tank is higher than what one would need to be if they were separate (after taking the impact, the explosive force, cutting the meteorite, the latent energy from the heat, etc without even showing signs of damage).
 
Dude; read my previous post. I'm not even disagreeing with you that we need a better method.
 
Cin is the only person still on this wiki who gives me life regarding One Piece ovo. I agree with Cin btw, he is the One Piece expert. I would comment on this, but I feel like I would be barking up a tree so I will just leave it be.
 
Damage3245 said:
> I agree with Cin btw, he is the One Piece expert.

Eh, I think quite a few people on this thread are experts on One Piece.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I am one of them. I trust Cin's judgement far more then I trust yours, Damage. Thankfully, you dont have to worry about with One Piece since I already blacklisted the verse, and I probably will unfollow this thread. I just think Cin has been dealing with this far too long ever since I started my ban. Cin just makes the most sense regarding this imo.
 
Well, thanks for contributing to the thread... Times like this, it makes me glad that I started focusing on One Piece revisions, when I think about what a state the verse was in before.
 
Jet's not try to argue who's better yeah personally while I do tend to trust Cin over Damage and may not agree with everything he says he does bring up good points at times and it's not fair to put someone down completely.
 
Since we don't have a forthcoming solution for the Birdcage situation, let's try and settle some scaling / ratings for other parts of the series.

My updated calculation for Aokiji's feat was accepted a while ago but not yet implemented. The Mid End for either method is fine to use making the result either Mountain level or Mountain level+.

This is mostly just a supporting feat for Aokiji, but we can use it to upgrade Doflamingo's current durability rating from Mountain level to Mountain level+ if we go with that end.

EDIT: Ignore this temporarily. I need to update the Aokiji calc after speaking with a calc group member.
 
@Ercosore, unfortunately none of those are really new calculations. Just minor updates to existing calculations.
 
Is anyone here willing to discuss Fujitora meters feat? I don't understad you do we count only the largest meteor? It seems all of them came from a single attack
 
Ugarik said:
Is anyone here willing to discuss Fujitora meters feat? I don't understad you do we count only the largest meteor? It seems all of them came from a single attack
Click to expand...
It was already decided a long time ago that Fujitora doesn't scale to the meteors he summons.

Also, the actual summoning in this case was off-screen, so we can't exactly prove without a doubt that it came from a single 'attack'.

And nobody has any direct feats of tanking the meteors.
 
I made a calc for that Aokiji feat using the melt rate from water heat exchange. The result is about 700 megatons. Can 1 week statment be accurate?
 
@Rin; I'm just stating what was already decided a long time ago. If we want to revisit it, we can.

@Ugarik; Aokiji was the one who provided that statement, and it didn't seem like he had any reason to be misleading. I think the issue with that calc is that it assumes the entire surface area of the ice is exposed to seawater which is impossible to verifying.
 
@Damage - The issue is that the feat took place on the Grand-Line, which had already been established to have harsh, inconsistent climates. From the first chapter of the Straw Hats actually sailing through the Grand Line (accompanied by Vivi and Mr. 9), the seasons changed from Winter to Spring almost instantly, and storms came practically from no where. We can not be using our own world's laws for the "1 week" statement, especially since any sea king that is under or around the ice could risk putting massive holes in it, disregarding the aforementioned weather conditions of the Grand-Line in general.

Also, I did a rough estimate on Fujitora's AP for lifting of the Dressrosa rubble using his gravity powers, and the PE came out to be 7-A. KE anywhere from 7-A+ to 6-C+ depending on the time-frame used between 1 and 10 seconds (but the height the rubble was lifted was low-balled, so each value should be significantly higher--anywhere between a 20 and 60% increase). I didn't do it accurately because I was unaware where we currently accepted Dressrosa's Diameter--I used 18.17km as that's the latest I remember, but I'm sure it's still under debate.

^ So basically, another feat to consider scaling Luffy and Doflamingo to (outside of the potential Bird Cage feat, since even Fujitora w/ Haki could not cut it, or stop the enclosure--which can support the Bird-Cage Dura and AP being upper tier 7/lower tier 6 as previously argued--whenever a new calc is made for the durability of the threads.).

TL;DR - The AP of the Bird-Cage is Significantly > Fujitora's personal AP and the combined efforts of everyone who pushed against it + the AP we have to consider for the cage to cut through the island per-second.
 
@Cin; I'm not a calc expert but I think that P.E. is the best method to use there since the timeframe is uknown.

For what it is worth, I already agree that Fujitora should be at least 7-A (which he currently is anyway), so he shouldn't be downgraded to 7-B regardless of what happens with the Birdcage discussion.
 
Meanwhile I stay here in my corner, quietly waiting Fujitora's moon throwing to become a thing.
 
If Fujitora drags the Moon down and upgrades the verse to 5-C I'll eat my hat.
 
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