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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #7

Okay, well, thank you for taking the time to make the calc. Hopefully it'll be evaluated soon and we can cross it off the list.

Pica's Stone Golems are already rated as Mountain level for that one existing calc, but additional City level & Mountain level calcs will help support that considerably.
 
Well, I do think it should scale to Pica himself if he's the one moving it.

Also, I'm gonna have to look through Dressrosa scaling images again, because the City level to City+ might be scaled wrong because I'm using the outdated Flower Hill scaling that ended up being horrible perspective as well as being an image BEFORE the Pica statue was ever made. Trying to figure out if the 6000+m for the arm was the correct one, or 4300~4500m was it... UGH. (Would determine if the feat is easily 7-A, or just 7-B+)

Also, gonna try to make a calc of Pica walking. I expect only City level, but you never know.

But I'm going to work, so I'll deal with it later.
 
Darn, I just checked: This was the latest blog for the scaling images of the Flower Hill and Pica Statue - The arm was supposed to be 6000+m in length. I was making the calculations based off of 4000 something. Gonna have to re-do the values. The result for Pica creating his arm (1-2 seconds) would be Mountain level to Mountain+, and the feat of him recreating part of his torso and arm should be of a similar value.

Statue Walking... I'm gonna have to re-do it, but I suspect City+ to base-line Mountain. We shall see.

I'll post the blog when I make it >_>;
 
Here's the blog. I am unsure how to go about finding KE for Pica just... walking, but I got City+ for him just having to stand the statue up.

Pica's stone manipulation feats seem to be consistently around 7-A overall. If Pica himself doesn't fully scale to his statue, Zoro at least should due to taking punches from it directly and only suffering a small bruise and overpowering it.

Elizabello's Lite Punch is back to Low 7-B+ with this as well.
 
So yeah, these newer feats provide reinforcement for 7-A tier.

Elizabello and the other Coliseum Fighters would be Low 7-B+ with characters like Dellinger, Cavendish, Bartolomeo all being "at least" due to Dellinger one-shotting most of these fighters, Cavendish one-shotting Dellinger w/ Hakuba, Bartolomeo one-shotting Gladius.

Pica has feats ranging from Lower end 7-B to touching High 7-A (But most are consistently 7-A). Scales to Pica himself as he has to manipulate the stone and generate enough energy to do so consistently (and has blocked hits from Zoro, who has stomped the golems over and over again), which would then scale to the top Executives, Law (for tanking hits from Vergo and later wrecking him in a fight), Zoro (cuz duh), Sanji by extension, and likely Robin as she had blocked attacks from both Trebol and Diamante and is casually far above Hakuba.

Fujitora also has the casual feat of lifting the rubble from Dressrosa, PE of 7-A, and the possibility of him yieling High 7-A+ results through KE.

  • Scales to Gear 3rd Luffy as he was capable of matching Fujitora, and inflicted damage to him with his first punch despite Fujitora having blocked.
    • By extension, Doflamingo > Gear 3rd Luffy. This is only assuming Doflamingo's Bird-Cage does not yield higher than 7-A durability (AP already scales >>Fujitora anyways since Fuji + help could only briefly stop the cage), which I find unlikely.
Calcs need evaluation, though.
 
Before we get into the scaling, would it be possible to calc two more feats?

There's Zoro's 1080 Pound Phoenix in chapter 754, and Zoro slashing one of Pica's stone golems in half that punches him from above (trying to find the chapter for that one too).

I do want us to discuss the scaling in-depth a bit more before deciding fully on new ratings, because currently we don't scale the other Executives to Pica's Stone Golems, but to base Pica.
 
PlumCrayfish376 said:
Okay, I asked Therefir about combining the Fujitora lifting Dressrosa feat and the Ferocious Tiger Tiger and his response was that it was okay to do so:
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3003102#2
Click to expand...
We'd be combining the P.E. calc with the Ferocious Tiger calc I believe, since at that point Fujitora is just holding the rubble in the sky.

Result would be 7-A.
 
Thank you PlumCrayfish376! That was the feat I meant, but Dressrosa is so damn long that it takes so long to go back through all of the chapters and reread it.

We can see it in comparison to Pica's initial golem, so we could get Pica's AP for that attack, and Zoros' AP for cutting it in half.
 
@Damage - the 1080 phoenix, even if we assumed he destroyed the entire side that fell apart, would still be around... Low 7-B for 8/jcc I believe. I don't feel it necessary to look at the entire feat, but I already scaled the volume for that particular part of Pica's body to have a volume of 1153840444.44m^3 or around that.

8j/cc is 2.20619589 Megatons of Tnt - Small City level, so yeah, didn't even need to calc that feat to know it would result low for Zoro. Even high-balling it to 69j/cc only gets it to barely 19 Megatons of Tnt--but nothing supports Violent Fragmenting.

For the other feat of Zoro tanking the punch from Pica's smaller golem, I have no way of knowing a specific time-frame for KE, and PE isn't accurate for something like this. It would likely only be a City level feat anyways. And Zoro only slashes the Golem in half, so unless he overpowered the punch (clearly didn't as he was damaged and the cut occurred slightly after), he would likely only get barely Town level for that one attack.

I'll make a 2nd blog later for other missed feats including the 1080 pound phoenix later.

As I previously noted, Pica should scale to his own Golems due to him needing to generate the energy necessary to move them around, and he has shown strain when using his abilities in some cases--proving that he isn't given free-reign over controlling stone.

  • And I did also point out that Zoro continuously stomped all of the golems Pica used against him, and Pica himself was able to block attacks from Zoro (Although Zoro was playing with him the entire fight up until his final attacks).
If it is agreed that Pica does NOT scale to his golems, alright, that's reasonable to argue, but Zoro should definitely scale due to casually being above Pica and only suffering a small bruise to the head by the time their fight was over.
 
Other feats to consider would be Pica's Charlestone (doubt it would be even 7-B), Gladius' Pop Rock Super Arena, and maybe a couple others that I'm missing that actually hold any significance.

I expect another Low 7-B to 7-B feat for the Executives. The Coliseum fights excluding Cavendish, Chinjao [through scaling above Cavendish], and Bartolomeo would not scale to this feat, as it was made abundantly clear that even the executives are > them... with very few exceptions like Sai post awakening.
 
Gladius Super Arena:

Simple, to find the volume of stone destroyed, use the height of the final step of the flower hill as the diameter of a sphere.

FH = 2862.39726022m. Fourth Step = 2862.39726022/4 = 715.599315055m

Volume of the sphere using the radius (715.599315055/2) = 192000000m^3

Using Pulverization as there was not a trace left of any rubble within the area that was destroyed, and that even if we use Violent Fragmentation, it's low-ball due to the fact that not only was the stone destroyed, but everything around it was sent flying hundreds to thousands of meters.

Pulverization of Stone = 214.35j/cc

9.8363288719 Megatons of Tnt = City level

But looking at the hole made from other panels, it looks like it is smaller than the height, so it will end up being lower.
 
Assuming we go with the Low End of Pica's torso feat too, we'd have three consistent 7-A feats for Pica's Stone Manipulation.

Regarding Zoro scaling directly to it however, I do want to say I have a couple doubts. The Golem that Zoro took a direct hit from and chopped in half is a lot smaller that Pica's giant golem, and it may have been a weaker attack than the 7-A feats Pica has shown off (not every attack of Pica's is 7-A after all since he hit wounded fodder multiple times).

Zoro also have a City level+ calc for his own AP in this arc, and Pica's offensive attack (the hypothetical one) was likewise calced to be City level to City level+.

I know you've offered your own scaling chain about how we could rate the Dressrosa upper tiers, but what are your thoughts on these possible ratings:

Zoro: City level+ (His own attack was this powerful, held his own against Pica's stone golems)

Pica: Likely City level (Clashed with Zoro for a while, stronger than other Doflamingo pirates), up to Mountain level with Stone Manipulation (Multiple calcs for this, could crush the Royal Plateau, etc.)

Other Doflamingo Exectuives: Likely City level

Sanji & Kyros: City level

Etc.

I'm not saying things have to be way, just looking for feedback.
 
Damage3245 said:
Zoro: City level+ (His own attack was this powerful, held his own against Pica's stone golems)

Pica: Likely City level (Clashed with Zoro for a while, stronger than other Doflamingo pirates), up to Mountain level with Stone Manipulation (Multiple calcs for this, could crush the Royal Plateau, etc.)

Other Doflamingo Exectuives: Likely City level

Sanji & Kyros: City level
Click to expand...
I will be frank, Zoro should still be Mountain level, we had all see that no matter how much Pica tried he couldn't defeat him even with his devil fruit powers, the only thing that kept him from losing was the fact that Zoro wasn't able to harm his true body.

If we go with your scaling it would suggest that Pica was able to actually hold his ground during his fight again Zoro, which clearly isn't the case in this situation as it was instead a no win situation for Pica while an annoyance for Zoro.
 
I'm gonna put my comments in bold.

Damage3245 said:
Assuming we go with the Low End of Pica's torso feat too, we'd have three consistent 7-A feats for Pica's Stone Manipulation.

I agree with the low end for that specific feat due to what we previously discussed about the rubble falling and separation from the dust clouds

Regarding Zoro scaling directly to it however, I do want to say I have a couple doubts. The Golem that Zoro took a direct hit from and chopped in half is a lot smaller that Pica's giant golem, and it may have been a weaker attack than the 7-A feats Pica has shown off (not every attack of Pica's is 7-A after all since he hit wounded fodder multiple times).

True, but the smaller golem's entire body was flying towards Zoro while the fist was more accelerated. It should be understood that it wasn't a mere punch with no other weight behind it. Still unsure about results, but definitely still 7-B class

Zoro also have a City level+ calc for his own AP in this arc, and Pica's offensive attack (the hypothetical one) was likewise calced to be City level to City level+.

I'll quickly re-calc the Zoro feat just because I'm unsure about how it was scaled lately, as I have not checked

I know you've offered your own scaling chain about how we could rate the Dressrosa upper tiers, but what are your thoughts on these possible ratings:

Zoro: City level+ (His own attack was this powerful, held his own against Pica's stone golems)

Perhaps "At least" because the energy from lifting Pica was not all the energy Zoro put into that attack. He slashed horizontally, and sent the top half flying vertically, which is unnatural if that was all he had. But again, I'll need to reassess the Zoro feat. I think it will remain City level, but idk yet

Pica: Likely City level (Clashed with Zoro for a while, stronger than other Doflamingo pirates), up to Mountain level with Stone Manipulation (Multiple calcs for this, could crush the Royal Plateau, etc.)

Gonna have to discuss this later, but I still do think Pica needs to scale to his stone manipulation. If anything, I do strongly believe that his Stone Golem is physically weaker than himself, just that it grants him vastly superior range, stealth, mobility, and he can regrow the stone almost endlessly. If anything, it might be the reverse of what you have listed--just a City+ for the golem since standing requires City+ energy to even perform

Other Doflamingo Exectuives: Likely City level

At least Small City level+, likely City level, I think would be better due to Gladius's feat taking a small amount of preparation. Though not much.

Sanji & Kyros: City level

Sanji should scale to Zoro, and he also matched Vergo who should be equal/stronger than Pica

Etc.

I'm not saying things have to be way, just looking for feedback.
Click to expand...
I have to leave for work in like 8 minutes, so I'm outtie until later tonight.
 
At least 7-B+ also works for Zoro.

I want to discuss Pica more in-depth later too, because I'm of a different interpretation that Pica is physically weaker than his Golems. I don't think Devil Fruits powers directly correlate to physical strength; so he wouldn't be used the 'AP' of his normal body to directly move the stone he fuses with.
 
IDK why we should change the current accepted scaling of at least 7-B, likely 7-A for Zoro.

This isn't hax like Size Manipulation. To move something you need to be strong enough to do so, no matter if your fruit works like the Ishi Ishi does.
 
Technically Zoro's current rating is: At least 7-B, likely higher

I don't think it has been shown that Pica's stone manipulation depends on how physically strong Pica is. When he makes a Golem, he isn't physically pushing all of the stone in place, the stone just takes his shape because he is merging with it.

I believe that the strength of the fruit is dependant on the amount of stone available for Pica to manipulate in his environment. When he was just inside the castle, his feats were considerably less impressive than when he freely altered the structure of the island and Flower Hill.
 
This has nothing to do with the point. I've already explained that while we may argue that Pica's power shouldn't scale to the golems, his durability should and we agreed on changing the profiles accordingly tho it never happened so that's why Zoro's profile says that.
 
I'm having second thoughts about Pica's durability scaling to the Golems. I don't think the Newton's Laws scenario applies here because there isn't a clear recoil against his own body here.
 
Which supports my point.

Going by this logic any new user of the Ishi Ishi would be able to become Mountain level because the fruit doesn't require training nor strength.

Shirohige and Fujitora wouldn't scale to their own attacks because there's no recoil in them (especially the latter).
 
Blackbeard - despite being pretty clearly inferior to Whitebeard physically - was able to perform the exact same feats at his level in Marineford despite having only just acquired the fruit.

I don't think most Devil Fruits generally require training; Sabo could instantly use the Mera Mera no Mi too.

Not all attacks from Devil Fruit users have to scale to their own durability; I don't think you could get Kizaru's durability either based on him firing laser beams, likewise for Ace just creating fire (though you'd be able to get his heat/fire resistance).
 
Ace literally had to learn how to his Devil Fruit in the Manga, Luffy trained for years to master his Devil Fruit. Saying that they don't require training is blatantly wrong. Also if Ace had a decent feat with his fire then yes it would scale to his durability, fire is a form of energy after all.
 
Ace literally had to learn how to his Devil Fruit in the Manga, Luffy trained for years to master his Devil Fruit. Saying that they don't require training is blatantly wrong. Also if Ace had a decent feat with his fire then yes it would scale to his durability, fire is a form of energy after all.
 
@Rin; I said 'generally don't require training'. Clearly we have examples for both cases.

I don't have a comprehensive list yet, but the majority of cases involve users near-instantly being able to fully utilize their DF powers from what I remember.

EDIT: On a separate note, the Pica calcs are still being evaluated I realize and Ugarik is suggesting that the results need to be halved.
 
Blackbeard is a different case, he's been on the crew with pop's for years and had knowledge on how his powers and abilities work. Similarly with Sabo, Sabo was aware of Ace's abilities and such so he'd have a much easier time learning how to use the fruit. But even then it's clear that he can't use the fruit like Ace can, it simply serves as a feat of his skills and intelligence being able to replicate Ace's Hiken upon first getting the fruit. We know for a fact that most Devil Fruits are incredibly hard to master, a random user of the Opi-Opi no Mi obviously wouldn't be able to do what Law can first try. If a someone consumed Issho's Stomp Stomp Fruit they wouldn't be able to summon meteorites on a whim and such like how the Purple Tiger can. The only class of Devil Fruit I can see that doesn't require training would be the Zoan Class Devil Fruits.
 
I agree that 'mastery' of a Devil Fruit is certainly difficult, and depends on the user's creativity as well as their skill - but simply using a Devil Fruit doesn't appear difficult.

Kaku and Kalifa both ate unfamiliar Devil Fruits and were able to use them exceptionally well in just a few hours.
 
Kaku's and Kalfila both had Devil Fruits and are incredibly skilled Assassins its perfectly reasonable for them to be able to utilize said Devil Fruits properly and effectively. It's the same case with Lucci albeit to a lesser extent.
 
So the effectiveness of a Devil Fruit depends on the user's skill most of all, it seems? So, if a highly skilled person like Lucci got a hold of Pica's DF, it is possible he could use it to the same extent as Pica despite not being as strong or durable as he was?
 
Calaca Vs said:
What has that to do with this, at all?
Click to expand...
Well, mostly just that if skill alone is enough for users to have fully control of a DF, then Pica's durability may not factor into the feats he has with the Stone Golems.

Personally I think it could be argued that Pica's durability with Haki is at least on par with Zoro's 7-B+ feat; because even after his Stone Golem was cut by Zoro's attack, he still felt like he could take him on with Full-Body Armament Haki.
 
It could be argued that that's the case, but we go by our standards which use the Newton Third Law to explain that unless directly contradicted in the source material. We have no evidence on the skill being the most important factor in a Devil Fruit usage and saying that that's the case is headcanon.

Characters overestimating their abilities happens a lot in fiction, especially when we see that Pica didn't fight Haki-amped Zoro before getting one-shoted.
 
@Calaca, I mentioned up above that I don't see how Newton's 3rd Law applies here.

If Pica was using his physical strength to lift the Flower Hill up into place, he'd probably have one of the highest Lifting Strengths in the entire series. I don't see him exerting himself to that extent to move it, and I don't see the recoil of that stone moving going back to him.

When characters like Elizabello and Chinjao damage the Stone Golem, the effects of their damage don't travel through the stone to reach Pica. So likewise when Pica is moving the Stone Golem to punch at Zoro or other targets, the recoil of that attack wouldn't be felt by him but by the entire Golem.
 
Yeah, YOU said that and I disagree with you.

Just because you don't see it we don't have to change our standards without justification.

Pica has to move the Golem at such speed to reach X energy results, whether or not he's using physical strength to achieve it the safest assumption (aka the one that assumes the least) is that he's doing it by himself and applies Newton Third Law, instead of looking for long explanations with no proof in the source material to dismiss it.

Plus, Elizabello and Chinjao's feat is calculated at Low 7-B+. We don't know if Pica felt the impact or not, but if he did, that'd do nothing but tickles to him anyway.
 
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