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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #7

@Cin the harsh climate is only a thing outside of an island's enviroment. Vivi explained that once you reach a certain territory the climate becomes more calm and the 'season' shows up. That's why there are islands like Drum which are Winter Island, and those can have the four seasons without changing the landscape drastically. In this case, Kuzan froze the path in the water inside Long Ring Long Land's territory, so it might not change the climate that drastically considering it's happened inside of an island rather than in the sea.
 
Dragging one of the moons down would be 5-C+ bare minimum (for the largest two). The smallest one (the moon that is rotating around another moon) would be High 6-A+ KE.

@Calaca - It's incredibly unlikely the climate remains consistent given the distance traveled between each point (especially the time-frame they traveled. This isn't an hour or two we're talking about). The old man and his horse had to travel hundreds of km to reach their destination (First of all, Good luck doing that in ONE week), and most of it is over open water--guaranteed to have massive waves crashing against it from each side.

@Damage - PE would likely result in a massive time-frame if we used the speed they were raised--it's a low-ball--not to mention the height is also a low-ball. the Low End for the KE makes some sense due to some characters only being able to process what Fujitora is doing, while the Mid End could solve some issues for the rubble on the western side of the island being pulled to the East (meaning they traveled a greater distance than just the vertical distance). By the time anyone could realize exactly what happened--the rubble was already in place (with very few stragglers).

Side Note in general: just to point one thing out (I know I said this before, but this is important for scaling): Luffy with Gear 3rd should definitely scale to Fujitora. A single punch that Fujitora attempted to block sent him flying and still managed to damage his face. And fighting Luffy left Fujitora wheezing and somewhat fatigued.

Just from this feat alone, Doflamingo and Gear 4th Luffy are both looking to be in the 7-A+ to near base-line High 7-A range (even using just PE for Fujitora) when ignoring the Bird-Cage potentially scaling Doflamingo higher.

@Damage (again) - Fujitora without the lifting feat would have likely ended up scaling down to 7-A (base-line from his own feat nearing 7-A and scaling to Gear 3rd Luffy) if Doflamingo remained 400+Megatons. Possibly 7-B+ if we ignored Doflamingo claiming Luffy to be 3x (or up to 8x for lowest end) stronger than before w/ G4.

  • The only argument for him scaling to Doffy is blocking a kick, but that can easily be chalked up to a casual attack or a threat. Nothing supports Fujitora being above Fujitora unless we see both of them go at it and Fujitora takes him out.
I'll check to see if we got a good view of the rubble Fujitora has lifted, or if there's another feat of him using it (a clear one, not the random dropping of buildings he did before).
 
Gear 3 Luffy already scales to Fujitora on his profile.

Edit: Also, I will say that in general just because something is a lowball doesn't mean it is bad. It is usually safer to go with a lowball sometimes, though accuracy is what we should always aim for most of all.
 
>Good luck doing that in ONE week

I've been saying this for months.

LRLL it's... a ring. What we see as differents islands in an archipelago it's just one pretty big island that is void in the center. The magnetism that every island in Grand Line has it's crossing every part of the territory.

The climate is more consistent once you reach the territory of a certain island, that's what Vivi said, and we saw no different thing yet. Most (if not every) islands showed a consistent climate with no great changes sans Punk Hazard for obvious external reasons. Now we're in the New World where the climate is even crazier, and there's no thing like that yet. But if this happens in some island, it wouldn't apply to a Paradise's island without proof.
 
Basically, what we have right now in regards to Fujitora and Doflamingo:

Doflamingo creating the Bird-Cage (PE or KE would be needed to see how much energy was used to have the threads set in place--possibly 15 to 30 seconds for KE due to how the events unfolded). I seriously doubt it to even touch 7-B, but we'll see about that.

Doflamingo's movement/flexing causing the side of the Flower Hill to explode and fall apart (should be 7-B, iirc)

Bird-Cage enclosure (fastest clocked speed) should be around 7-B+ AP per second for the destruction it has caused (I'll wait for a calc or make one--whichever comes first--and it scales to the whole cage due to stopping a single thread resulting the ENTIRE cage halting).

Bird-Cage durability (Up for debate) - At most scales to the largest meteorite (making it 6-C at peak).

Bird-Cage AP (Scales above Fujitora's + Everyone's physical ability combined + the 7-B+ AP from destroying Dressrosa) - Slicing through the meteorites without any hint of damage to themselves. Possibly scales to the durability of the cage.

Fujitora lifting the rubble of Dressrosa: anywhere between 7-A to 6-C+

Fujitora Ferocious Tiger: 7-B+ nearing 7-A

Fujitora's Meteorites only scaling to his Envir. Destruction and possibly to top tiers if we are still discussing that (The weakest one being around Low 7-B on Green-Bit, the strongest being 6-C)

At this point, we don't even need to scale Doflamingo to Aokiji's freezing to ensure he has 7-A stats. There's enough here to ensure he's at the very least in the middle of 7-A. Possibly even higher. Also: Doflamingo > Fujitora and Jozu. I'll argue that any day.

At the end of the day, we might have to compromise with "At least 7-A, Possibly 6-C" for the Commanders, Doflamingo, Fujitora, and G4 Luffy (Due to the possible Jack durability feat, the possibility of some of these feats being 6-C anyways, and I'm terribly worried that Luffy is going to be capable of harming Kaido some time soon in the future).
 
Cin, the Aokiji feat is support for his durability rating.

I'm pretty confident that Doflamingo, Fujitora and Gear 3 Luffy are all 7-A, and that seems to be a consistent rating going by that list.

I know we probably wrong get this entirely settled soon but it looks like we're in agreement that Doffy should definitely be 7-A at least and no lower.
 
@Damage - I have a bad habit of editing my posts like 2 or 3 times after submitting, so you might want to re-read what I posted xD.
 
Lol, I have that habit myself sometimes.

I'll get back to this tomorrow, but I think that At least 7-A, likely higher, is also a compromise we could consider.
 
Just real quick for the Bird-Cage creation, using 18.17km for the diameter of the island:

Dressrosa: 704px Cage: 635px (16.39km)

Assuming the mass of the threads would be that of steel (there's enough evidence to support at least this much, and they should possibly be stronger than this): gonna use 7850kg/m^3\

Number of threads (quick estimate from circumference, thickness of threads, and the smallest gaps we've seen from Zoro's perspective): the threads were .111m apart last I checked, the thickness .00889m iirc. 0.11989m for each thread all around (excluding the last one, but idc--counting it anyways--almost 0 difference).

Circumference of cage (Horizontal) = 51.49km or 51490m. (429477.020602 threads) Circumference of cage (Vertical) = 50.27km or 50270m. 1/4 of this = 12567.5m for the length of each thread (Each thread only went a quarter of the circumference).

Gonna have to use mm cuz decimals are horrible:

Volume = 12567500mm for length, 8.89cm for width (4.445 for radius) = 0.78m^3 after converting it (lol)

Total volume = 0.78*429477.020602 = 334992.07607m^3

Mass = 334992.07607*7850 = 2629687797.15kg overall

Distance traveled from start to finish (red) = 273px + 12567.5m (from the half vertical circumference divided by 2 as each thread only traveled) so about 7.04603693182km + 12.5675km (19.6135369km)

PE = 2629687797.15*9.8*19613.5369 = 5.0545929e+14 J or 120.80767 Kilotons of tnt (Large Town level)

KE High end (forget Low end, it'd be sad) using 10 seconds = 5.05808E+15 J or 1.20891 Megatons of tnt (Small City level)

That's all. It's quite sad, really. Even wanking it to 1 second would give it base-line 7-A results. (About 120 Megatons)

Garbo Feat
I used arguably the worst scaling image for the cage, but even if i found the best one for the height of the cage, we'd be still in Large Town+ range LOL.
 
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:PlumCrayfish376/Dressrosa_Feats_Recalcs

Anyways, all these calcs have been evaluated [though the birdcage one is invalid]

Pica Stone Golem is at 378 Megatons

Zoro Daisen Sekkai is 77 Megatons

Fujitora's Fercocious Tiger could be 106.44 or 331 Megatons '[going with the high end of 331]'

Elizabello II King Punch is 35.38 Megatons with the lite version being 826 Kilotons

Sai's kick is 2.7 Megatons

Fujitora's largest meteor is 46.2 Gigatons with the full barrage of them resulting in 126 Gigatons.

EDIT: @Cin - WHY?!!! That is legit sad for the Birdcage.
 
"The King Punch could even take out a Yonko" -> 35.38mt - I doubt it would even hurt anyone of importance at this point.

The Lite Punch needs to be re-done due to the AP only factoring the damage done to the arm and ignoring the fact that it neutralized a palm strike that Pica was throwing. The AP would be significantly higher. Probably Small City+, touching City level. If it's still High 7-C+ (Strong doubt), the mid tiers are dropping a tier again LOL.
 
Sai's feat is below where he should scale to, as the Lite Punch (And Chinjao Drill) feat should be significantly higher than current. Chinjao and Sai should both be >> Elizabello's Lite Punch which scales to every stronger Coliseum fighter, as--obviously, Chinjao one shot Ideo, and many other reasons.

In fact, Dellinger, Lao G, Gladius, Chinjao, Sai (Post awakening), Bartolomeo and Robin + Cavendish should all be "At least" whatever tier the Lite Punch ends up being, seeing as how ALL 6 of them are casually above the rest of the characters who would scale.

  • Dellinger one-shot Blue Gilly, Dagama, Suleiman (who is > Rebecca > Rolling Logan), and Ideo once he got serious.
  • Gladius being > Viola, and easily subdued Toy Kyros (who took hits from Base Lao G) before resorting to his DF power.
    • Bartolomeo stabbing Gladius, and proceeding to one-shot him with his power.
  • Cavendish being somewhat comparable to Chinjao, who one-shot Ideo casually, and could withstand hits from a casual Luffy (only to his head, though. All other hits left him reeling, and Luffy's only serious punch deformed Chinjao's head and KO'd him).
    • Hakuba casually one-shotting Dellinger.
      • Robin easily holding Hakuba in place and deflecting a strike from Diamante
  • Lao G casually stomping Orlumbus, and holding his own against Chinjao--oneshotting Chinjao with his full power.
    • Sai fending off Baby 5 (pre awakening, so he'd just be a regular tier), but then one-shotting Lao G with his awakened abilities.
So let's say the Lite Punch ends up being Low 7-B+ or something of the sort:

Most of the Executives (Baby 5 and Buffalo) and Coliseum fighters (Ideo and Blue Gilly) would be Low 7-B+ through scaling. The others listed above would be "At least Low 7-B+, likely higher" due to consistently showing feats of being FAR above the rest of these characters, even through casual effort.

Chinjao (and thus Sai) are special cases:

Chinjao should be "At least Low 7-B+, likely higher" with normal attacks due to casually punching Ideo aside and stomping most Coliseum fighters, but his Drill Head should be significantly higher due to: 1) bending Cavendish's sword, 2) Taking hits from Base Luffy (Far weaker than Gear 3rd, CLEARLY), and 3) It's obviously claimed and shown to be far stronger than any of this other physical attacks.

Sai pre-awakening should plainly be "Low 7-B+" scaling to Ideo and Baby 5. "At least 7-B+, likely 7-B" scaling above Chinjao (busted his drill accidentally), and due to tanking a hit from Pica intended to kill Baby 5 (though with Haki, but he was hardly damaged).
 
BTW, would it be against regulations to take the combined value of Fujitora lifting Dressrosa and his Ferocious Tiger to equate his AP? I only point this out because he performed one of these feats while generating enough power to maintain the other.
 
I bring it up because, as he's fighting Luffy, he's also moving the rubble across the sky... and it's also still the same vertical height as when he first lifted it. That means he clearly had energy to spare if he performed Ferocious Tiger while still maintaining the rubble in the sky. Should honestly be considered 1 feat.
 
There also should be a calc of Pica regrowing his statue's arm - KE possibly being 2 seconds at most (Honestly could argue it being just 1 second), as it started and ended in one panel, and how the dust pushes off of it.

I can't find the current value for Pica's dimensions, so I'll just use a ratio from my original to fit the 18.17km diameter of Dressrosa. 0.41484018264 of the original used size. Correct me if I'm wrong, btw:

Taking my original scaling (from 43.8km Dressrosa) and scaling down: Arm height would then be 6088.85496183*0.41484018264 (2525.90170443m - pretty certain it should be lower than this cuz as I hear, the Flower Hill is around 2.7km tall. Then again, Pica's arms are freakishly long compared to the rest of his body, so...) and width 1590.6870229*0.41484018264 (659.880895103m)

Volume of the "cylinder" would be 864000000m^3 - Mass = 2.3328e+12kg

Using 3/4 of his arm's volume (as his shoulder was included in it, iirc), we got 1.7496e+12kg.

He had to move the total volume of stone through the length of 3/4 of his arm as well. So the distance would be 1894.42627832m.

KE 1s = 3.13953E+18 J or Mountain level+ (750.365MT)

KE 2s = 7.84882E+17 J or Mountain level (187.6MT)

^ If either of these values were accepted, this would further provide evidence of Top Executives (Zoro and Sanji as well during Dressrosa) being 7-A while Doflamingo, Fujitora, and Luffy have further support of being At least 7-A to any higher tier that they would scale to.

PE = 2.3328e+12*9.8*1894.42627832 = 10.351174 Megatons of Tnt (City level), but KE would be more acceptable due to Pica willing the stone to move, and controlling it with his energies instead of it being a result from an explosion lifting it (like Zoro's calculated attack).
 
Honestly those timeframes don't seem dependable to use. You could just as easily say that it is three seconds, or four seconds instead of 1 second with no way of being 100% sure.
 
Yet we do the same for so many calculations for so many verses including this one. But that's not the point here:

1 or 2 seconds is reasonable due to the action taking place over 1 panel, and, as I mentioned, the dust coming off of the stone still swirling VERY closely to the arm. 3 or more seconds and the dust would already be dozens to hundreds of meters away instead of still enveloping the area it came from.

  • Think of where a building falls over. After a few seconds, there's already a massive cloud of dust and debris spanning hundreds of meters. This is similar, but a much larger scale due to the volume and size of the arm. The time-frame could not be more than 2 seconds and I can't think of anything happening in those panels to suggest otherwise.
    • The feat occurred between those two panels anyways--the first one just showed "Before" the second "After" it was already completely finished. Pica already has plenty of feats to ensure this isn't an unlikely value (I'd like to see more calculations of his golem throwing punches and him manipulating stone to prove a point).
We should look at all of Pica's (notable) feats of stone manipulation. He's done quite a number that could be 7-B+ or even 7-A. At least Zoro could scale due to overpowering all of the stone golems time and time again while restricting himself.
 
@Damage - There's also this one - Being a similar feat, but a vastly larger size than before. Likely triple the volume of what's used in the feat in question. Also occurs over 2 small panels and has a similar effect with the dust.

We calculated Zunisha walking, so could we also possibly do the same with Pica? There's like... so many missed energy feats for Pica it's not good.
 
Events happening 'in a single panel' don't have a set timeframe. I understand why you say it is likely that it took place very briefly, but three seconds is also an extremely brief period of time.

@Cin; technically we've calculated Zunisha standing, not Zunisha walking.
 
I already pointed out why anything higher than 2 seconds is unreasonable for something of this scale. The fact is that 3 seconds would be far more than enough time for the dust to have spread much further than we see in both cases of Pica reforming his Golem's arm. Smaller scale demolition of stone already creates dust clouds of larger scale than what is seen here for an object spanning over a hundreds of meters. It has ''just'' started to disperse.
 
Unreasonable by what standards? Unless it can be proven that the dust should be much further away, then it is still unwarranted to say that the timeframe is only a couple seconds at most.

There's also the possibility of some of the dust being so dispersed that it is no longer visible on-panel.
 
Then provide evidence to contradict my point. You've yet to do something other than say... "no".

You say there's a possibility of the dust dispersing that it is no longer visible, but that takes minutes to hours. You mean to tell me that Luffy and co. stood on the arm for several minutes while Pica prepared to throw a punch?

  • And for the last time: The dust is still in VERY close proximity to the arm... It clearly, VERY BLATANTLY OBVIOUSLY ACTUALLY, that it has not dispersed as much as you want to believe.
I'm done here. Going to bed. Not going in another circle with you.
 
> You say there's a possibility of the dust dispersing that it is no longer visible, but that takes minutes to hours. You mean to tell me that Luffy and co. stood on the arm for several minutes while Pica prepared to throw a punch?

That just seems like a strawman argument.

Yes, the dust is in close proximity to the arm. All you've done is assert that the dust would have travelled too far away over the course of three seconds without providing evidence.

EDIT: Anyway, we can revisit this once it actually gets calced and evaluated.
 
Ercosore said:
Unless we get a new feat or an old one is recalculated is likely we are going to be stuck for a long time.
Click to expand...
I mean, we still have the Knock Up Stream to calculated which was able to send more than half of Jaya 10km in the air very quickly. Iirc Blackbeard was near the initial explosion and should scale to it.
 
CinCameron20 said:
KE 1s = 3.13953E+18 J or Mountain level+ (750.365MT)

KE 2s = 7.84882E+17 J or Mountain level (187.6MT)
Click to expand...
Personally the 2s end seen to be overall more fitting and coerent, seeing that:

- Pica's Flower Hill is calculated to be 377.58 Megatons, which would not only be consistent but it would also prove once and for all that Golem Pica's AP is indeed 7-A and it isn't just Environmental Destruction.

- Fujitora's Ferocious Tiger is calculated to be 106.44 Megatons, an attack which Gear 2nd Luffy was able to tank it effortlessly even after his fight with Doflamingo, which again show that High Tiers in the Dressrosa Arc are 7-A.

- Zoro's Daisen Sekkai is calculated to be 76.85 Megatons, an attack that Zoro could easily perform and one that Pica was able to survive it, thought he had be KOed.
 
@Damage - It is NOT a straw-man argument. You claim the possibility of the dust having dispersed to the point where most of it is invisible--which would take many minutes on the bare minimum. And it clearly did not disperse. There's also another reason why this can't be the case, as I'll get into below.

Allow me to re-iterate my points again:

  • Various examples just from demolitions of far smaller objects (skyscrapers made from stone--effectively far less volume of stone since they are buildings, and also shorter than Pica's arm is scaled to be) have shown similar dust build-up in the case of explosions. Let's just take a random example: This is a good example. Going frame by frame, starting from 1:30:91 is when the eruption starts and around 1:32:24 is when the rubble begins to slow down and fall. That's 1.33 (arguably 1.7 seconds depending where you look) seconds for something of considerably less density (due to hollowness) and less overall mass.
    • The dust around Pica's arm had not started to go downward, and that's a clear sign that the feat took place in a 1-2 second time-frame. It was still spreading outward. Had it started showing rubble crumbling downward (like the first panel in the feat WAY after his arm was destroyed), I would use a 4 second time-frame as a High End. Otherwise, 1 or 2 seconds are the most likely case here.
  • I use demolition as a comparison due to how the arm is reformed, Pica has to mold the stone and push it through the arm socket at incredible speeds that it would be generating a lot of dust when coming into contact with wind resistance. Had he grown it at a snail's pace (like the anime, lol), we'd very clearly see small rocks and dust falling straight down like a stream. This is clearly not the case.
@Stefano - 2s is an acceptable low end, in my mind, but it can be argued to be a shorter time-frame. But I'm fine with whichever. This isn't even his strongest feat. We have another one taking place when he makes his final golem to go after King Riku where he instantly reformed his Shoulder, part of his torso, and entire arm--effectively near 2.5 to 3 times the volume of this particular feat. (And a greater distance)
 
I'll make a blog post for other Dressrosa feats that were not previously made/accepted, as I'm pretty certain we've got plenty of potential 7-A to 7-A+ feats to consider. Using 18.17km for Dressrosa unless it has gone up or down in size.
 
I obviously disagree with the anime's interpretation of the events (something like 30 seconds for the arm to to grow? lol) but I think the argument for a timeframe as low as one second is just too much of a stretch.

The main dust cloud on the first panel of this page has clearly fallens tens of meters from its initial position by the time the arm fully forms - maybe even further depending on how big that arm is supposed to be. Maybe dust can fall that quickly in just a single second, but even going by that video it appears it can take several seconds for a dust cloud to fully settle.
 
CinCameron20 said:
Also, Vivre Card Volume 9: Dressrosa Pack confirms Doflamingo to be a Kenbunshoku Haki user, so we can finally put that ridiculous argument (from before) to bed ;).
Click to expand...
While I obviously agree that Doflamingo can now be confirmed a Kenkunshoku Haki user, I don't think it was ridiculous to be skeptical of his status as that before.

Observation Haki is one of the least obvious signs of Haki in the series, and Doflamingo's feats with Observation Haki weren't 100% solid.
 
@Damage - I am pointing out the time-frame for when it takes the rubble to start falling, and for that specific clip, it took at most 1.7 seconds.

The dust cloud in the first panel was already there from when his arm was broken by Elizabello and Chinjao, but Don't worry, I fixed the time-frames (1.33s is the high end) and I actually did the volume and mass properly this time. The value will be City level to City level+ for the arm growth, but likely Mountain level for the 2nd rebuild feat he does. But the time-frame for that one will be slightly longer.

BTW, in the 2nd panel for the first feat, yes, there are 2 spots I can see where the rubble is falling down, but they both take place on the under-side of the arm, so it's to be expected regardless due to the dust dispersing vertically down rather than horizontally like the forearm and most of the upper arm.
 
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