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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #7
- Thread starter Damage3245
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One simple solution to this, ignoring other reasons brought up earlier in the thread: Doflamingo's threads are that durable, Bound Man Luffy being capable of breaking Awakened and normal threads with casual effort, and Doflamingo's threads being capable of inflicting harm to Luffy. (Doflamingo himself scaling physically due to taking hits from Bound Man Luffy, and would have hurt Luffy if not for his Bound Man retaining his rubbery stature despite being coated with Haki)
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The individual threads would automatically slice through the meteorites if they are far more durable than stone, given the extremely narrow/thin area of impact.
I do not think that scaling them to the meteorites in terms of raw energy seems reasonable.
I do not think that scaling them to the meteorites in terms of raw energy seems reasonable.
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- #124
Thank you Ant.
For this new scaling to work, we'd have to:
1) Assume that the meteor came to a deadstop on the first string it touched (making that string 40 Gigatons in durability).
2) Assume that every other string Doflamingo creates is equally as durable (making them each 40 Gigatons in durability)
3) Assume that Luffy's Gear 2 attacks are 1/3rd as strong as his Gear 4 attacks, despite clearly being shown that Luffy's strength increase is far, far superior to that. (Knocking Doflamingo across the island with a single punch and making him cough up blood, when before he couldn't even hurt him with a Jet Bazooka).
I'd rather try to adjust the existing scaling to account for the updated calcs than go with this.
For this new scaling to work, we'd have to:
1) Assume that the meteor came to a deadstop on the first string it touched (making that string 40 Gigatons in durability).
2) Assume that every other string Doflamingo creates is equally as durable (making them each 40 Gigatons in durability)
3) Assume that Luffy's Gear 2 attacks are 1/3rd as strong as his Gear 4 attacks, despite clearly being shown that Luffy's strength increase is far, far superior to that. (Knocking Doflamingo across the island with a single punch and making him cough up blood, when before he couldn't even hurt him with a Jet Bazooka).
I'd rather try to adjust the existing scaling to account for the updated calcs than go with this.
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They are not just coming into contact with the stone, they are coming into contact with the energy behind the stone. And still, the distributed energy through the cage would affect all the threads just the same due to them all being connected (and the meteorite landing close to where they meet).
I don't feel like bringing every last point up again. I would much rather sleep and get some work done.
- A sword is not going to cut through a meteorite falling onto it. The argument that the threads are strong enough to cut stone holds no weight when there's also KE, latent energy, shockwaves, and other forms of energy also behind this... not just mere rock.
I don't feel like bringing every last point up again. I would much rather sleep and get some work done.
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I still find myself agreeing with Cin regarding this matter. As he's had multiple years of experience regarding the Birdcage calc and such. The Birdcage should either scale fully or scale to the meteorite to an extent I'm almost positive that the Cage would break near the bottom or the middle of they only stopped less than 5% of the KE of the meteorites especially given its shape. The bottom or middle would snap. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the Cage placed the KE of the meteorites at a near halt thus using a 24% ratio as Cin suggested would be a valid compromise seeing as how it's a low ball if anything since the amount of KE the Birdcage tanked could be a lot higher than just 24%.
You know there's a reason why literally no other forum has such low stats for OP characters. But I won't get into that here of course.
You know there's a reason why literally no other forum has such low stats for OP characters. But I won't get into that here of course.
Stefano4444
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I think the entire Birdcage should scale entirely to the meteorite, since only a portion of the Birdcage had be hit by the meteorite and we clearly see that it didn't effect.Rin The Dragon Empress said:
And for scaling Birdcage to other Doffy's techniques, i think only Awakening threads should scale due of the amount of strings that the can used in combat.
Just calculate the amount of strings that had be hit by the meteorite, calculate the amount of strings each Awakening thread is made, for then make a quick comparation between the two.
Not necessarely, remember that a single string is so tiny that it can barely be see by human eyes, a single building size Awakening thread would easily be made by hundreds, if not thousands of strings all compatted together.Captain Torch said:
So while you may had a point about the Birdcage having potentially more strings, the amount of strings that even a single Awakening thread could be made should still be massive, even if it was like 10% of the Birdcage it would still means that Awakening threads had Large Mountain level+ Dura and AP (by scaling from Boundman Luffy).
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The counter argument for the Birdcage not stopping the KE just because Oda doesn't draw destruction when a meteor hit the ground ignores the very first usage of said meteor at Green Bit, where he was spamming them and altering the enviroment with them.
It looks like Oda knows what a meteor does to the ground, even if he doesn't say "well this is a 40gt meteor so I have to draw it like this". It's a poor argument when you ignore the other instances when Issho used the meteors.
As Rin said, 24% is a compromise if we don't know how much energy the Birdcage absorbed from the meteor.
It looks like Oda knows what a meteor does to the ground, even if he doesn't say "well this is a 40gt meteor so I have to draw it like this". It's a poor argument when you ignore the other instances when Issho used the meteors.
As Rin said, 24% is a compromise if we don't know how much energy the Birdcage absorbed from the meteor.
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- Thread starter
- #130
I've asked a calc group member for their opinion to see what alternatives exist. If there isn't a better way of calcing it, then the previous compromise may be the best solution.
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A compromise seems best if you cannot come to an agreement, yes.
It will seem weird with so many characters at 6-C or "At least 6-C" though, but I suppose that we will have to wait for greater feats from the top tiers.
It will seem weird with so many characters at 6-C or "At least 6-C" though, but I suppose that we will have to wait for greater feats from the top tiers.
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- Thread starter
- #132
Indeed. I am hopeful that since we have both Big Mom and Kaido featured in the same arc, with their respective commanders, that we won't have to wait too long before we see them in combat more.
And Luffy is currently in the middle of a training arc, so there's a chance we can add a third key to his Post-Timeskip profile later on.
And Luffy is currently in the middle of a training arc, so there's a chance we can add a third key to his Post-Timeskip profile later on.
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My only problem with the argument that the mid-top tiers can't be 6-C because that's what the God Tiers are scaling is that we don't dismiss a feat for being higher than the previous highest value but scale the characters accordingly.
If for some reason the conclusion is that the Birdcage scales to 30GT that can't be deemed as an outlier or unreliable for scaling just because Kaido and co. is scaling to 28GT from Zunisha. That just means the God Tiers scales to that.
The way I see this is that every high feat that isn't done by a Yonko or an Admiral is by default considered an outlier.
If for some reason the conclusion is that the Birdcage scales to 30GT that can't be deemed as an outlier or unreliable for scaling just because Kaido and co. is scaling to 28GT from Zunisha. That just means the God Tiers scales to that.
The way I see this is that every high feat that isn't done by a Yonko or an Admiral is by default considered an outlier.
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- #134
It depends on who is scaling, and how they're scaling.
Setting aside this feat for the moment, Doflamingo's previous best durability feat was withstanding a casual freeze from Aokiji which could be around 7-A to 7-A+.
He's also tanked numerous Gear 2 attacks, and attacks from Law - and the pair of them only caused serious damage to Doflamingo when using attacks that bypass his durability. These are good feats by themselves with both characters scaling to just under or around 7-A currently.
If we were to scale him fully to the meteor, we'd be upping his stats by almost exactly 100 times. It's a very significant upgrade. So I think it's important to evaluate it thoroughly before we go into the upgrades.
But anyway, we can deal with the issue of scaling when we have a method.
Setting aside this feat for the moment, Doflamingo's previous best durability feat was withstanding a casual freeze from Aokiji which could be around 7-A to 7-A+.
He's also tanked numerous Gear 2 attacks, and attacks from Law - and the pair of them only caused serious damage to Doflamingo when using attacks that bypass his durability. These are good feats by themselves with both characters scaling to just under or around 7-A currently.
If we were to scale him fully to the meteor, we'd be upping his stats by almost exactly 100 times. It's a very significant upgrade. So I think it's important to evaluate it thoroughly before we go into the upgrades.
But anyway, we can deal with the issue of scaling when we have a method.
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I know there's discussion that needs to be done first, but I don't support the argument.
The only true Durability feat is Aokiji's, because using Luffy and Law is suggesting circular reasoning.
The only true Durability feat is Aokiji's, because using Luffy and Law is suggesting circular reasoning.
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- Thread starter
- #136
I had a look through for durability feats, and aside from Law and Luffy, Doffy's next most notable durability feats are:
Sanji is clearly outmatched, but considering that Sanji at this point At least 7-B, him forcing Doflamingo to block his attacks wouldn't make a lot of sense if Doflamingo was 6-C.
Every other injury Doflamingo recieved was either through Law's abilities, Red Hawk (which negates durability to an extent) or Gear 4 Luffy's attacks.
Sanji is clearly outmatched, but considering that Sanji at this point At least 7-B, him forcing Doflamingo to block his attacks wouldn't make a lot of sense if Doflamingo was 6-C.
Every other injury Doflamingo recieved was either through Law's abilities, Red Hawk (which negates durability to an extent) or Gear 4 Luffy's attacks.
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You can block if you're not fully aware of the strength of the opponent.
His best Durability feat is clearly withstanding G4 attacks. But we need the Birdcage discussion over first.
His best Durability feat is clearly withstanding G4 attacks. But we need the Birdcage discussion over first.
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- #138
To discuss something else for a moment, Sanji's first Post-Timeskip rating is At least 7-B for fighting Vergo to a stalemate.
Vergo is Likely 7-B.
So shouldn't Sanji's first key be Likely 7-B too?
And there is the issue of the Vinsmoke family scaling to sort out. The previous 7-A calc is now 7-B.
Vergo is Likely 7-B.
So shouldn't Sanji's first key be Likely 7-B too?
And there is the issue of the Vinsmoke family scaling to sort out. The previous 7-A calc is now 7-B.
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Vergo scales to Pica who scales to Zoro who's 57MT. They shouldn't get the + but should be At least 7-B instead.
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Okay, I'll update Vergo's profile to At least 7-B.
As for the people who scale to Charlotte Oven's feat, is it okay to just update all of them from 7-A to 7-B?
As for the people who scale to Charlotte Oven's feat, is it okay to just update all of them from 7-A to 7-B?
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At the moment, yes. My sandbox is in hiatus until I resolver a few things first, so I can't argue about the downgrade yet.
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The destruction generated by the Kong Gun won't give anything impressive. Even 8-A sounds exagerated with the path Doffy created with his body.
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There's also him standing unscathed after Fujitora's meteorite impact, which is up there for his feats. The KE of the meteorite being at least Large Town+, the Crater being formed being anywhere from Small City (pure Pulverization) to nearing tier 6 (pure Vaporization).Damage3245 said:
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That crater does need to be calculated btw, I'd say using vaporization for most of it since we see smooth surfaces and vapor aside from the three pillars Law, Doffy and Fujitora were standing on.
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On top of that that's the only possible end since you can't pulverize sand. As Adam pointed out some months ago, sand is already pulverized.
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Pretty sure sand can be pulverised into smaller pieces. However it probably requires less energy than pulverising rock, so this just downgrades the crater feat really.
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the crater is more a supporting feat, really. I always looked at it like "Oh, they all sat in a Town/City level explosion and it did nothing. Cool"
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Technically Law split the meteor so that almost none of it would directly hit him, and Fujitora completely blocked the meteor falling on him with his gravity shield.
Doflamingo's the only one of the three whose defensive strategy makes no sense since splitting the meteor into a bunch of smaller pieces shouldn't actually stop you from getting hit by it.
Doflamingo's the only one of the three whose defensive strategy makes no sense since splitting the meteor into a bunch of smaller pieces shouldn't actually stop you from getting hit by it.
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@Damage - None of them should have logically been untouched (unless Fujitora put a protective shield around his whole body) when the meteorite impacted with the ground, since the explosion would have hit ALL 3 of them.
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....I like to bring up something and that is regarding the Alabasta's ratings for few characters. I wonder why is the sandstorm feat by Croco-boy is consider an outlier;
From the top tier of the arc, we have a 8-A or 7-C Desert Sparda, depending on which version you like, 8-A Gomu Gomu no Storm feat from Luffy and that's it, besides the sandstorm feat.
The sandstorm feat provided by Stefano4444 have two different results depending on the 8-A or 7-C version is chosen- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...rocodile's_Desert_Sparda_and_Sandstorm_Recalc.
The results of the calc are not that out of ball territory (Low 7-C or High 7-C). Why is it that that the top tiers don't scales, or for some of those characters, backscales, to the sandstorm's feat since Crocodile has to have that much energy to be able to perform such a feat.
From the top tier of the arc, we have a 8-A or 7-C Desert Sparda, depending on which version you like, 8-A Gomu Gomu no Storm feat from Luffy and that's it, besides the sandstorm feat.
The sandstorm feat provided by Stefano4444 have two different results depending on the 8-A or 7-C version is chosen- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...rocodile's_Desert_Sparda_and_Sandstorm_Recalc.
The results of the calc are not that out of ball territory (Low 7-C or High 7-C). Why is it that that the top tiers don't scales, or for some of those characters, backscales, to the sandstorm's feat since Crocodile has to have that much energy to be able to perform such a feat.
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I can't remember the full discussion, but I think it was something along the lines of 8-A being more consistent than High 7-C. Especially when Enel's best feat in the next saga is 7-C.
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Remember that Stefano has a Low 7-C sandstorm feat scaling off of your Desert Spada.
And I believe that was when we have two 8-A Desert Sparda calc feats before one of them got debunk. And for the Royal Palace Desert Sparda, Stefano's 7-C result is just as viable as yours.
So, depending on what one like, we would have 1 8-A feat, 1 7-C feat and 1 High 7-C feat or 2 8-A feat and 1 Low 7-C feat.
We could fully scales characters to the sandstorm feat in total (I believe this follow a similar structure to RWBY's maiden thing), or we could go something like "8-A, likely Low 7-C".
Either way, Crocodile should be "8-A, likely Low 7-C via sandstorm"
EDIT: Also, if you want to talk consistency, we have two High 7-C feats consisting of the sandstorm and Pell tanking a High 7-C explosion, lol, ovo, but still
And I believe that was when we have two 8-A Desert Sparda calc feats before one of them got debunk. And for the Royal Palace Desert Sparda, Stefano's 7-C result is just as viable as yours.
So, depending on what one like, we would have 1 8-A feat, 1 7-C feat and 1 High 7-C feat or 2 8-A feat and 1 Low 7-C feat.
We could fully scales characters to the sandstorm feat in total (I believe this follow a similar structure to RWBY's maiden thing), or we could go something like "8-A, likely Low 7-C".
Either way, Crocodile should be "8-A, likely Low 7-C via sandstorm"
EDIT: Also, if you want to talk consistency, we have two High 7-C feats consisting of the sandstorm and Pell tanking a High 7-C explosion, lol, ovo, but still
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Well, 8-A, likely Low 7-C doesn't sound too bad and wouldn't mess up any scaling.
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So, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Crocodile, Mr. 1, and Mr. 2 are gonna be '8-A, likely Low 7-C' right? Just want to make sure.
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- #159
I don't think the sandstorm would count towards Crocodile's striking strength or durability. So I don't think any of those other characters would scale.
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But isn't this similar to weather feats, character who does an impressive one has their AP, striking strengths and durability scales to the result of that calc. A similar instance is that of RWBY Maidens.Damage3245 said:
Crocodile has been shown to be able to summon powerful sandstorm on whims.
