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One Piece High 7-A Revision

So I stop here for the OP request, if you want Emi, I can create a thread to continue this topic.
 
You're welcome to create a thread I'm just telling you it's been done to death before and you're only going to get the same responses.
 
There will always be opposing views. I was not here when these discussions took place anyway.
 
I would recommend that such a thread only be created after this one has concluded first, if that is okay.
 
Damage3245 said:
Cool, I'll start updating some of them soon. Though the speed points aren't relevant to this revision and should be handled afterwards. Likewise for Aokiji's Statistics Reduction.
Click to expand...
Where are you on this?
 
I'll post an update tomorrow. Do you have any extra suggestions besides the ones mentioned up above?
 
'Large' Mountain level with Black Knight (His Black Knight pressured Law and kept him on the defensive, and cut Luffy's back with one of its attacks, and momentarily stunned him with a kick to the face), at least Large Mountain level+ by himself (Casually one-shot the likes of Sanji and Smoker. His thread attacks have pierced through and slashed dismembered Law on more than one occasion. Casually one-shot Luffy in two instances despite the Gomu-Gomu no Mi's incredible resistance to blunt force trauma. Overpowered Gear 2nd Luffy despite being in a weakened condition from being wounded by Law's Gamma Knife, and can generate threads to block attacks from Gear 3rd without the use of Haki. Issho (Admiral Fujitora) could do next to nothing to stop the Bird-cage, and could only slow down its enclosure. Should not be far weaker than Bound Man Luffy, as he was capable of holding him off in a weakened state for over 20 minutes. Stopped someone as powerful as Jozu mid-charge with his threads, and held him in place.)

There are so many issues with Duffy it insane. I don't know how it got this bad but bottom line I crossed out what does not make a lick of sense. I think it is safer to scale him upwards from Luffy, Sanji, Smoker, Law, Execs, Issho and anyone else I'm fogetting fromt he mid tiers than to backwards scale him to Gear 4 (Although I did leave in the bit of him not being far weaker just because by this site's standards 2-3 times is not a lot).
 
I already updated Doflamingo in the sandbox? He isn't rated as Large mountain level.

You're right though that Doflamingo did not one-shot Luffy at any point so I've removed that bit.
 
Okay I will have a look. Last I checked you hadn't changed anything.

Also Pretzle has a lower rating than Law's sword under weaponary seems strange.

EDIT: Duffy is looking better :-) Still needs part about one-shotting Sanji removed and I think his durability should be lower.
 
Just wanna point something, there was the revision thread about if your far above a character with a calc near the mean of a tier, you can upscale to have the "+"

If there's anyone far above the 7-A calc, which is only 1.3x away from 7-A+ then maybe you can upscale them to that at 550 Megatons

Like Whole Cake Island Gear 2 and 3 Luffy could upscale to 7-A+ if his Base is 7-A
 
^Yeah that actually raises another good question thanks.

@Damage, earlier you were adament Luffy should not scale to Issho's full Calc. A consensus was that he scaled to 66%-75% in past threads. Why then are you scaling Luffy to Issho's full value now?
 
I don't think my sandbox states which exact value that he scales to, just that he scales to 7-A.

Even if he didn't scale fully to Issho's calc though, I'm pretty sure through some means he'd end up scaling to Pica's calc which would still make him 7-A.
 
I don't remember arguing on this thread that Luffy scales fully to the calc. At least, I'm extremely sure that Gear 2 Saitama does not scale to the calc. What value exactly do you think he should scale to?
 
The event was far too prominent to be an outlier, and Liger686 calculated that Blackbeard performed a display of power of similar scale right afterwards. In addition, I still think that more powerful characters than Pica should scale to his golem.
 
> The event was far too prominent to be an outlier

Master Roshi blowing up the Moon was a pretty prominent event but it has always been held in common opinion to be an outlier. True, the gap is larger for Roshi, but still the gap between Large Mountain level and Country level looks pretty big to me.

Liger's calc to my knowledge wasn't accepted for use.

And something important to consider is that Whitebeard displays his power many times during the war after his initial creation of tsunami; none of them are shown to be as powerful or destructive as the energy required to create those two tsunami. He even uses it on Marineford fortress itself several times and fails to completely destroy it.

Which is why I think that calc is an outlier not only in the whole verse, but for Whitebeard himself compared to his other showings.
 
That is just standard plot convenience area of effect though, and my point is that Blackbeard's feat right afterwards is visibly still of the same scale. There are no serious contradictions, so I much prefer that it stays.
 
@Antvasima; I understand your view on it. Nonethless this isn't a thread to handle that topic currently, so we can potentially discuss it in the future in a more suitable thread.
 
Okay. No problem.

For the record, I greatly appreciate that you have been very helpful and rational in general when trying to help this wiki improve in structure and reliability. I just think that you can be too zealous with discounting valid feats and scaling as outliers, so there are unnecessary downgrades imposed on a few verses.
 
wouldnt we attribute the weaker attacks to the fact that whitebeard had been stabbed and had a magma fist blown through his gut at that point?
 
Technically it was Stabbed>Heart attack>Magma et al

But can we not drift off-topic please?

@Damage I do not know. Ideallly I would like to see Luffy scale fully to Issho or higher given their exchange but I do not see that happening as you were so adamant before. I just know we have to narrow down a figure for Luffy since the rest is dependant on that as foundation.
 
(17 day old bump)

Skip the first 2/3 of this comment if you want to get to what actually matters... Lol. Not to say that it isn't important, but I'm certain many are tired of the Doflamingo/Kata/Luffy talk.

Regarding the whole Doflamingo discussion: I agree his descriptions are outdated, but I do not believe in downgrading him to 7-A+. The whole argument seems to be about him being incapable of doing harm to Gear 4th Luffy, but how can that be suggested when we hardly got to see them fight? The fight began with Doflamingo taking several blows, landing an ineffective kick (explicitly stated due to Haki/Rubber) before displaying his Awakening. A 20 minute time-skip occurs and the battle was completely over-shadowed by King Riku's speech after this. We see a few panels of their fight with Luffy and Doflamingo being pressured before Luffy went in with a Leo Bazooka. Before this, we see almost nothing of their fight (Much like Cracker and Katakuri's respective encounters against Bound-Man)

Now taking this into a general topic of why scaling any of the 3 characters who fought Luffy fully to Bound Man Luffy is a bad idea:

None of the 3 characters Luffy has defeated with Gear 4th are equal to him in power. Doflamingo, Cracker and Katakuri are never shown matching Bound-Man's might. If Luffy is High 7-A in Bound Man, then those 3 should only be "Likely High 7-A" as they only... 'bested' him through various tactics--not because any of them were equal or stronger than him (Doflamingo simply won in stamina, Cracker outmatched him with sheer numbers and defense... also cutting attacks, and Katakuri simply counter-attacked with FS til Bound Man wore off)

  • Mini-rant: Before anyone says Katakuri matched Bound-Man with his Power Mochi, this is entirely baseless and we see that Luffy has only begun to suffer damage after 25 minutes of their brawl and taking an unknown number of strikes from him. Someone brought this page into the topic once, and I just have to say--redirecting a punch from the side is not the same as meeting it head-on.
tl;dr: The 3 characters should only scale partially to BM Luffy's AP. Not fully.

Also, throwing Haki into the mix makes this whole topic a complete mess of sorts.

Now that I brought up Doflamingo, I can move onto the Admirals.

Wherever Doflamingo is placed (7-A+/High 7-A/Whatever), Aokiji scales from due to their encounter on Punk Hazard heavily suggesting Aokiji is at least a threat if not equal/stronger to Doflamingo (I am not using fan-bias to suggest Aokiji > Doflamingo even though I agree fully with the notion due to my own opinion on the matter).

Akainu scales from Aokiji obviously. Marco scales from both due to fending off Akainu and kicking Aokiji away. Kizaru from Marco. Jozu from Aokiji (At least partially). Vista from Akainu and scaling to his peers (Marco/Jozu). Mihawk from Vista. Rayleigh from Kizaru (Rayleigh can't scale to Post TS Luffy btw). And whatever else I missed.
 
@CinCameron20; putting aside Cracker and Katakuri for the moment (I think you make some valid points on their scaling), would you be willing to accept either "At least 7-A+, likely higher" or "At least 7-A+, possibly High 7-A" for Doflamingo's Attack Potency?
 
I agree with "At least 7-A+, Possibly High 7-A" for Doflamingo (And the other two characters, honestly).

  • That's all you need to read, really... the below bit is just me ranting some more.
The fight being mostly off-panel should not discredit Doflamingo's scaling to Luffy, but he (and the others) is definitely not BM Luffy's equal in power.

At least 7-A+ is obvious due to Doflamingo being above Sanji/Smoker/G2Luffy and potentially Issho (due to Bird-Cage debate if nothing else).

Possibly High 7-A simply because he held his own vs Bound Man Luffy for some time while greatly injured (if anyone contests this again, omg)

  • 20 minute time-skip and the duration of Riku's speech indicate the battle was obviously not one-sided, and Doflamingo at least held his own during this time.
  • We literally see Doflamingo block a Double Culverin with his threads, and we see that he is pressuring Luffy during Riku's Speech before ultimately being blasted away w/ Leo Bazooka
  • Luffy outright admits Bound Man is not enough to put Doflamingo down for good (flashback w/ Rayleigh, panel with Doflamingo immediately after Luffy states "Kong Gun did not work at all" and before Rayleigh notes "If Bound Man is not enough, you will have to think of something else")
 
Alright. I'll update the sandbox for affected characters later today, but no revisions will be applied any time soon.
 
Does this include the Admirals/WB Commanders/Mihawk? They should all have the same tiering (unless the Admirals are also going to be given a potential 6-B tier due to not being stomped by WB in strength)
 
I'm going to do some rereading for feats or other points of scaling soon. In case there is anything else that would affect their tiers.
 
I could give CinCameron20 temporary editing rights to help out with revisions if you wish.
 
This is just a notification about that all discussion posts made after April 14 will disappear in the new forum, so if there are any important content revisions that need to be referenced in the new forum, please back them up here:

https://archive.org/web/
 
I'd like to change the descriptions of all the characters I've mentioned from the Doflamingo/Aokiji chain.

I will make a sand-box (I need permission to make a blog) with all the descriptions for each character. I'll make them far more concise and accurate than what's currently on the profiles.

Also, Luffy's key in @Damage's sandbox confuse me. The current keys for Luffy should be "Fishman Island to Whole Cake Arc" (There's no indication of any change in his overall abilities in this period), "Post-Whole Cake Arc" (Basically his development from his fight against Katakuri) and "Siege of Onigashima" (After his training in Udon Prison).

Sanji should also only have 2 keys instead of 3. Whole-Cake shows no indication of him getting stronger or learning any abilities. He should only have "Fishman Island to Whole Cake Arc" and "Wano Arc" (With Raid Suit).
 
I typed up a wall of text in a document. I would post the potential changes here (using the current "At least 7-A, possibly High 7-A format"), but it's... quite a large wall, so I'll refrain from that and wait until I can make a blog to paste everything into.
 
Okay. I will give you temporary editing rights then.
 
Couldn't you put them into a sandbox?
 
Here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:CinCameron20/Sandbox
 
Yeah, you just add a / then whatever you want after your username to make the title of your sandbox.
 
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