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One Piece High 7-A Revision
- Thread starter Damage3245
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- #242
You really need to clarify which version of Luffy is in your scaling chain because base Luffy does not equal Fujitora.
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I thought that was clear since Base Luffy is never shown fighting Fuji anyways, but I'll edit it if it's really necessary.Damage3245 said:
@Fix - (You are literally asking for a wall by pulling out these comments that actually don't go in line with the context of the fight, so I apologize if this is not what you want, but I feel the need to do this to prove a point)
The only time Luffy and Law respectively stopped an attack with their bodies was with Haki (which mitigates the effects of the DF), and were otherwise greatly wounded by an attack, so Doflamingo's AP is >> their Durability. And actually, Law's the only one who successfully blocked one attack w/ Haki while Luffy was sent flying and was still hurt.
- Law is definitely most notable here. When not using Haki to negate Doflamingo's threads, every attack Doflamingo landed went straight through him
- Luffy was injured by punches and kicks (some with Haki, some without, but either way, he couldn't withstand Doflamingo's attacks), and even when he blocked with Haki, he was sent flying every single time and kept accumulating damage and blood spewed out in most of these cases.
- Doflamingo blocked the Kong Gun with NO Haki on one of his arms (The one that actually had Luffy's fist on it), and it was fine.
- Doflamingo blocked a double Culveri with his threads and they withstood it.
- You bring up how Luffy later breaks through, but again, we don't see the fight, so you can't claim Luffy didn't try again and again before we see him land that head-butt.
Now I'm sure you want to pull up feats from chapter 782 and 3 where Luffy clearly hurts Doflamingo with his attacks, but again, I have to point out that OF COURSE he will be able to inflict damage to Doflamingo when the latter has been literally tenderized by Law's attack the previous chapter, and it's constantly repeated that Luffy knows Doflamingo is weakened and he can feel the impact of Law's attack, and is thus striking Doflamingo in the affected area multiple times.
Fact of the matter is that the only history of Luffy ever hurting a healthy Doflamingo involves Red-Hawk, which is a dura negating attack since it sent an explosion of fire through Doflamingo's body and out the back. Anything after that comes from Law having already blown up Doffy's organs, electrocuting him and causing him to bleed profusely and likely left him feeling lethargic and ill for the remainder of the fight with Luffy. Yet, Doflamingo was still able to overpower Gear 2nd Luffy, so it's clear as day that:
Healthy Doffy > Tender/Weak Doffy > Gear 2nd Luffy. As such, any belief that Gear 2nd/3rd Luffy can scale to Doflamingo is rendered completely false due to Luffy only being able to hurt even a weakened Doflamingo with a) Haki infused strikes and also b) Damage already inflicted by Law that would be affecting Doflamingo up until the very end of the fight
Meanwhile, if a <100% Doflamingo can take hits from Gear 4th, obviously his Durability scales when he's actually healthy. And if he can hold his own and pressure Luffy when he's in such a state, then obviously he'd perform significantly better if he weren't as wounded as he was.
Things against Doflamingo scaling to Bound Man:
- Obviously being physically weaker than Bound-Man, though he was confirmed to be weakened--granted it can not be proven even if he was healthy that he would be a equal opponent to Bound-Man in a stright-up brawl
- He stopped attacks from Bound-Man with his threads.
- He engaged Luffy in an off-panel engagement lasting over 20 minutes.
- We actually see him pressuring Luffy in their fight, implying Luffy was struggling to win.
- Luffy literally admits his Bound Man attacks wont be enough to finish the fight, thus according to his flash-back, he needed to "resort to something different" (KKG).
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- #244
- Doflamingo blocked the Kong Gun with NO Haki on one of his arms (The one that actually had Luffy's fist on it), and it was fine.
As for King Kong Gun, I don't think we should take that as a valid argument that Luffy absolutely needed to use King Kong Gun to beat him. He wanted to end the fight in a single strike and he used his most powerful attack to do so, but his weaker attacks were already heavily affecting Doflamingo and Doflamingo was shaking and wobbling in his final moments - he was clearly weaker than before.
I don't think Luffy ever states in the present time that Boundman wouldn't be enough to defeat Doflamingo. His flashback on fighting monsters on that island shouldn't be taken as complete proof of that.
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>>@Fix - (You are literally asking for a wall by pulling out these comments that actually don't go in line with the context of the fight, so I apologize if this is not what you want, but I feel the need to do this to prove a point)
I really wish you hadn't. I was specifically truing not to go off topic with this case you are so passionate about by keeping my responses short and to the point. Now I am obligated to respond in kind with all the evidence without the bias and double standards given to Duffy. I'll be back later.
I really wish you hadn't. I was specifically truing not to go off topic with this case you are so passionate about by keeping my responses short and to the point. Now I am obligated to respond in kind with all the evidence without the bias and double standards given to Duffy. I'll be back later.
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This is a false accusation. There is absolutely no point during Kong Gun in which Doflamingo has Haki on more than one arm. You can not claim it is an "error". Here is the page directly preceding the punch. Here are Doflamingo's arms in the next page. No Haki.
The Shading is exactly the same in the b/w panel
@Fix - There isn't any, at all. I provided evidence, and all you're doing is saying "nope" again.
As I said, Luffy never hurts Doflamingo with the sole exception of Red-Hawk when the latter was healthy. Why would he scale to hurting someone who is already greatly damaged at the time when he only did so with gut strikes and Haki?
I call massive BS, and would prefer getting Staff input rather than a "Nah, this aint true, so i'm gonna ignore it"
The Shading is exactly the same in the b/w panel
@Fix - There isn't any, at all. I provided evidence, and all you're doing is saying "nope" again.
As I said, Luffy never hurts Doflamingo with the sole exception of Red-Hawk when the latter was healthy. Why would he scale to hurting someone who is already greatly damaged at the time when he only did so with gut strikes and Haki?
I call massive BS, and would prefer getting Staff input rather than a "Nah, this aint true, so i'm gonna ignore it"
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Sorry, I didn't mean preceding pages, that was a typo. I meant preceding panels on the same page. Take a look at the panels prior to the last panel on the top. He has Haki shading on both arms/hands.
I'd prefer you inspect the pages a bit more before accusing me of making false accusations.
I'd prefer you inspect the pages a bit more before accusing me of making false accusations.
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@Damage - ??? I don't know what to say other then there is no panel showing both arms coated in Haki. I'll even circle out where we see the arm NOT imbued with Haki in each panel.
I'm posting the image here:
I'm posting the image here:
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Why does the Haki on his arms switch positions, the first panel (to the right) has Haki on his right arm, and in the other panel (to the left) he has Haki on his left arm.
Am I seeing things? Looks like a color or shading issue or something, makes more sense than him swapping the Haki on his arms in pretty much the same frame of the attack for no explicable reason.
Am I seeing things? Looks like a color or shading issue or something, makes more sense than him swapping the Haki on his arms in pretty much the same frame of the attack for no explicable reason.
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@Purgy; on the center panel he has Haki on his right arm as well.
@Cin; the fact that you highlighted two different arms having Haki is what I meant by Doflamingo using Haki on both arms.
@Cin; the fact that you highlighted two different arms having Haki is what I meant by Doflamingo using Haki on both arms.
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That arm most most certainly doesn't have Haki in it. Doffy blocked with his arm and the other is positioned to support the other arm. This is a pretty common form of blocking in just about any form of marital art if you've ever done any. Blocking using your dominant arm while using the other for support. I agree fully heartedly with Cin and trust his judgment regarding the series.
Like seriously how are we gonna legitimately say that Doffy shouldn't scale to Luffy when he fought against him for 20 minutes. His durability should scale without a doubt and his AP should also scale since it would be stupid to assume that Doffy is a tank who's incapable of dealing damage when that's never portrayed.
Like seriously how are we gonna legitimately say that Doffy shouldn't scale to Luffy when he fought against him for 20 minutes. His durability should scale without a doubt and his AP should also scale since it would be stupid to assume that Doffy is a tank who's incapable of dealing damage when that's never portrayed.
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@LordGinSama; can you try looking at the whole page instead of a single panel before you make such a blatantly wrong comment?
Lasting 20 minutes in a fight is only evidence for a 'possibly' rating at best. It is not a complete AP feat by itself.
Lasting 20 minutes in a fight is only evidence for a 'possibly' rating at best. It is not a complete AP feat by itself.
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You're the one who's objectively wrong brother. the panel you refer to is the arm he was already blocking with, not the one that was bare.
Also what? Um doesn't work like that, Doffy fought him off screen for 20 minutes straight, we give characters solid tiering so such a feat so I dont see what's the difference here.
Also what? Um doesn't work like that, Doffy fought him off screen for 20 minutes straight, we give characters solid tiering so such a feat so I dont see what's the difference here.
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Oh my God, we're back to this stage of arguing where people are just ignoring what is on the page.
If Purgy can see what I'm taking about, then you can too. Go ahead, re-read each panel individually and think carefully about what I'm saying.
If Purgy can see what I'm taking about, then you can too. Go ahead, re-read each panel individually and think carefully about what I'm saying.
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Artistic mistakes aren't a good reason to go downgrade something, if that isn't a desperate attempt at downgrading something I really don't know what is. Point being is that one of his hands weren't imbued with Haki no matter how you cut it.
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I understand that the Haki switches arms, and perhaps it was a mistake that resulted in the arm positions being swapped. However, the fact of the matter remains that we see Doflamingo's arm is without Haki when he takes the punch. There's not one panel showing both arms coated in Haki--always one, and it's the one supporting the arm blocking the punch--not the one taking the hit directly.
@Damage - I want nothing beyond the possibly High 7-A rating anyways. The only reason I was defending the high 7-A rating is because @Fix is stating Doflamingo should just be "7-A+", no more than that. But this is ignoring how Doflamingo went on to pressure Luffy and held him at bay for 20 minutes (even when ignoring his weakened physical condition, this is still enough support for him to be given the Possibly High 7-A rating).
I'm currently on "At least 7-A+, Possibly High 7-A" for Doflamingo. NOT "Possibly High 7-A", NOT "7-A+"
@Damage - I want nothing beyond the possibly High 7-A rating anyways. The only reason I was defending the high 7-A rating is because @Fix is stating Doflamingo should just be "7-A+", no more than that. But this is ignoring how Doflamingo went on to pressure Luffy and held him at bay for 20 minutes (even when ignoring his weakened physical condition, this is still enough support for him to be given the Possibly High 7-A rating).
I'm currently on "At least 7-A+, Possibly High 7-A" for Doflamingo. NOT "Possibly High 7-A", NOT "7-A+"
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Sorry for the wait, had lots to do today.
Luffy & Law VS Duffy Pre-Gear 4 Misconceptions and Clarifications.
Duffy never tanks anything. He always chooses to block or evade attacks if possible.
When he is actually hit we see he is visibly damaged . Yes, you can make an argument for his limited dur negation, but we know there still has to be comparable energy for that to work. Hence the 7-A+ rating over just 7-A.
Law blocks many attacks from Duffy . Now I know @Cin will immediately say this is a feat for the sword. He is right, sort of. The sword is able to handle Duffy's strikes without damage. Law to is able to match Duffy's hits. Otherwise he would be sent backwards or the sword sent flying out of his hand. And he does this over and over again.
Similarly Law is not pushed back here . Nor is he affected by the ambient heat of Duffy's attack.
Now I will agree with @Cin that Duffy's strikes did pierce or even slice through Law on multiple occasions. I would expect them to if he were at least 7-A, let alone higher. They are by their nature slashing and peircing attacks. If Law was not sliced/pierced then that would mean his durability scales FAR HIGHER than Duffy's AP. This should not be taken as a huge feat in favour of Duffy. Now had Duffy slashed through flesh and bone and left Law's torso in peices, then I could see a sig difference in favor of Duffy. The only time he cut though flesh and bone was on Law's limb which is far less impressive than the torso. Even then he did that with sig prep.
Law's own attacks had no problems hurting Duffy each and every time they hit. A total of four times that I know of.
Law also blocked Duffy's attack without a sword . Albeit he was using Haki at the time as all three competitors do during this fight.
When Luffy attacks with Gear 3 Duffy blocks it with his strings rather than try to tank it.
Or he chooses to dodge it entirely.
For good reason. Even when using haki to defend himself Luffy is able to hurt Duffy all the same.
Luffy is actually powerful anough tofend off attacks from both Duffy/BK and Bellamy (Note I say Duffy/BK because it is not clear which it is).
This is after Luffy blocks damage from Duffy's kick. Now again granted Duffy over powered him and BOTH were using haki. Reminder I am not arguing Luffy is =>Duffy at this point. Merely that the difference is not large.
Luffy proceeds to get his head smashed in and sent through the roof by Duffy/BK, where he then battles both BK and Bellamy in a 2-1 with his hands tied behind his back.
At some point he over powers Duffy's strings and breaks out.
Now before you write off Bellamy as weak reminder he did this to Luffy while the latter was using haki. Certainly not an outlier as he repeated it here and here .
And did this (Albeit I do not see Luffy using Armament here).
Now remember Duffy attack (With haki) against Gear 4 Luffy was nowhere near as effective. That is definitive proof that the difference between Luffy and Bellamy is smaller than the difference between Gear 4 Luffy and Duffy. I say difference because both times Luffy does win.
Luffy also takes hits from both Duffy and his BK earlier in Dressrosa and still is conscious and able to act .
Luffy is also able to block Duffy's bullet string via his leg, soaking up more energy and countering with his own.
Soaks up even more damage here and here .
Luffy clashes with and stops Duffy here and here .
Luffy even takes hits from awakened Duffy while in his weaker base gear post Gear 4.
Now I know @Cin will say "Duffy was weakened". I do not deny this. Both are in pretty bad shape having taking many hits each from the get go from multiple characters. Remember the burden is on @Cin to prove Duffy is at a higher level. Just because he has been hurt does not mean his healthy state is high 7-A or whatever value assigned without proof.
I also know @Cin will bring up the twenety minutes. To which I will give context. @Cin presents it as a feat when in actuality it is an anti-feat. Remember while 20 minutes may be a long time in other fights we have to remember our audience. Specifically One piece and even more specifically high tiers.
Jack fought the minks for days without rest or sign of fatigue.
Ace & Jinbei fought for 5 days before collapsing and that was years ago.
Kuzan and Akainu fought for 10 days before the latter won.
20 minutes by comparison is a squash match.
I also acknowledge Duffy was "Not defeated" by gear 4's initial attacks. Worth noting that Luffy is literally just bouncing in place under the impression that Duffy is defeated. Had he not wasted that moment we see here he could have reached Duffy for the fifth and final hit.
So to review
Again I'm not pushing for 7-A Duffy. That would be his low end scaling to mid tiers. @Cin wants at least 7-A+, possibly high 7-A. High 7-A is Duffy's high estimate while 7-A+ (Courtesy of @Demon) is the middle ground.
We know Duffy scales to mid tiers and I am inclined to agree with @Cin the difference between him and Gear 4 isn't vast. Where we disagree is where Duffy scales rerospect to the two. I prefer middle as a compromise while @Cin prefers mid-high.
Let me reitterate that Duffy/Law/Luffy exchanged many blows blocking dodging, enduring on all sides (Bellamy too). There is nothing Duffy did against Gear 4 that anyone mentioned didn't do to him.
Damage Dealt?
Duffy suffered damage every time he couldn't block or dodge be it Luffy or Law
Luffy suffered no damage without having to block or evade.
Damage Tanked?
Duffy survived 20 minutes (A squash by the standards of characters we are looking at). while getting ragdolled across Dressrosa (Oda's words, not mine). He could barely put up a defense which wasn't over powered if not on the first then ont he second try.
Luffy took many hits over an extended period and kept getting back up. He met Duffy's attacks with his own and buffered them with his guard. Like duffy his guard also wasn't always enough but he was never sent nearly as far.
Luffy took damage everytime as well and kept getting back up. He also blocked without getting his guard broken every time he block in time.
Closing thoughts. . .
So while I agree the Duffy is stronger than mid tiers based on his showings I would not agree that he is in a whole other tier, especially when the reasoning is for performance which was <= Law & Luffy did against a more powerful foe.
Luffy & Law VS Duffy Pre-Gear 4 Misconceptions and Clarifications.
Duffy never tanks anything. He always chooses to block or evade attacks if possible.
When he is actually hit we see he is visibly damaged . Yes, you can make an argument for his limited dur negation, but we know there still has to be comparable energy for that to work. Hence the 7-A+ rating over just 7-A.
Law blocks many attacks from Duffy . Now I know @Cin will immediately say this is a feat for the sword. He is right, sort of. The sword is able to handle Duffy's strikes without damage. Law to is able to match Duffy's hits. Otherwise he would be sent backwards or the sword sent flying out of his hand. And he does this over and over again.
Similarly Law is not pushed back here . Nor is he affected by the ambient heat of Duffy's attack.
Now I will agree with @Cin that Duffy's strikes did pierce or even slice through Law on multiple occasions. I would expect them to if he were at least 7-A, let alone higher. They are by their nature slashing and peircing attacks. If Law was not sliced/pierced then that would mean his durability scales FAR HIGHER than Duffy's AP. This should not be taken as a huge feat in favour of Duffy. Now had Duffy slashed through flesh and bone and left Law's torso in peices, then I could see a sig difference in favor of Duffy. The only time he cut though flesh and bone was on Law's limb which is far less impressive than the torso. Even then he did that with sig prep.
Law's own attacks had no problems hurting Duffy each and every time they hit. A total of four times that I know of.
Law also blocked Duffy's attack without a sword . Albeit he was using Haki at the time as all three competitors do during this fight.
When Luffy attacks with Gear 3 Duffy blocks it with his strings rather than try to tank it.
Or he chooses to dodge it entirely.
For good reason. Even when using haki to defend himself Luffy is able to hurt Duffy all the same.
Luffy is actually powerful anough tofend off attacks from both Duffy/BK and Bellamy (Note I say Duffy/BK because it is not clear which it is).
This is after Luffy blocks damage from Duffy's kick. Now again granted Duffy over powered him and BOTH were using haki. Reminder I am not arguing Luffy is =>Duffy at this point. Merely that the difference is not large.
Luffy proceeds to get his head smashed in and sent through the roof by Duffy/BK, where he then battles both BK and Bellamy in a 2-1 with his hands tied behind his back.
At some point he over powers Duffy's strings and breaks out.
Now before you write off Bellamy as weak reminder he did this to Luffy while the latter was using haki. Certainly not an outlier as he repeated it here and here .
And did this (Albeit I do not see Luffy using Armament here).
Now remember Duffy attack (With haki) against Gear 4 Luffy was nowhere near as effective. That is definitive proof that the difference between Luffy and Bellamy is smaller than the difference between Gear 4 Luffy and Duffy. I say difference because both times Luffy does win.
Luffy also takes hits from both Duffy and his BK earlier in Dressrosa and still is conscious and able to act .
Luffy is also able to block Duffy's bullet string via his leg, soaking up more energy and countering with his own.
Soaks up even more damage here and here .
Luffy clashes with and stops Duffy here and here .
Luffy even takes hits from awakened Duffy while in his weaker base gear post Gear 4.
Now I know @Cin will say "Duffy was weakened". I do not deny this. Both are in pretty bad shape having taking many hits each from the get go from multiple characters. Remember the burden is on @Cin to prove Duffy is at a higher level. Just because he has been hurt does not mean his healthy state is high 7-A or whatever value assigned without proof.
I also know @Cin will bring up the twenety minutes. To which I will give context. @Cin presents it as a feat when in actuality it is an anti-feat. Remember while 20 minutes may be a long time in other fights we have to remember our audience. Specifically One piece and even more specifically high tiers.
Jack fought the minks for days without rest or sign of fatigue.
Ace & Jinbei fought for 5 days before collapsing and that was years ago.
Kuzan and Akainu fought for 10 days before the latter won.
20 minutes by comparison is a squash match.
I also acknowledge Duffy was "Not defeated" by gear 4's initial attacks. Worth noting that Luffy is literally just bouncing in place under the impression that Duffy is defeated. Had he not wasted that moment we see here he could have reached Duffy for the fifth and final hit.
So to review
Again I'm not pushing for 7-A Duffy. That would be his low end scaling to mid tiers. @Cin wants at least 7-A+, possibly high 7-A. High 7-A is Duffy's high estimate while 7-A+ (Courtesy of @Demon) is the middle ground.
We know Duffy scales to mid tiers and I am inclined to agree with @Cin the difference between him and Gear 4 isn't vast. Where we disagree is where Duffy scales rerospect to the two. I prefer middle as a compromise while @Cin prefers mid-high.
Let me reitterate that Duffy/Law/Luffy exchanged many blows blocking dodging, enduring on all sides (Bellamy too). There is nothing Duffy did against Gear 4 that anyone mentioned didn't do to him.
Damage Dealt?
Duffy suffered damage every time he couldn't block or dodge be it Luffy or Law
Luffy suffered no damage without having to block or evade.
Damage Tanked?
Duffy survived 20 minutes (A squash by the standards of characters we are looking at). while getting ragdolled across Dressrosa (Oda's words, not mine). He could barely put up a defense which wasn't over powered if not on the first then ont he second try.
Luffy took many hits over an extended period and kept getting back up. He met Duffy's attacks with his own and buffered them with his guard. Like duffy his guard also wasn't always enough but he was never sent nearly as far.
Luffy took damage everytime as well and kept getting back up. He also blocked without getting his guard broken every time he block in time.
Closing thoughts. . .
So while I agree the Duffy is stronger than mid tiers based on his showings I would not agree that he is in a whole other tier, especially when the reasoning is for performance which was <= Law & Luffy did against a more powerful foe.
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> I understand that the Haki switches arms, and perhaps it was a mistake that resulted in the arm positions being swapped. However, the fact of the matter remains that we see Doflamingo's arm is without Haki when he takes the punch. There's not one panel showing both arms coated in Haki--always one, and it's the one supporting the arm blocking the punch--not the one taking the hit directly.
On the last panel Doflamingo's right arm is portrayed without Haki, but on the two previous panels we can see Haki shading on his right hand.
Personally I think it is a likelier artistic mistake that he did not have both arms shaded with Haki on the last panel. It also doesn't make a lot of sense why Doflamingo wouldn't cover the arm that he is defending with, with Haki, unless there was something preventing him.
But anyway - I'm glad that you guys have finally managed to spot it. Maybe I should have drew a diagram to prevent this kind of confusion.
On the last panel Doflamingo's right arm is portrayed without Haki, but on the two previous panels we can see Haki shading on his right hand.
Personally I think it is a likelier artistic mistake that he did not have both arms shaded with Haki on the last panel. It also doesn't make a lot of sense why Doflamingo wouldn't cover the arm that he is defending with, with Haki, unless there was something preventing him.
But anyway - I'm glad that you guys have finally managed to spot it. Maybe I should have drew a diagram to prevent this kind of confusion.
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Me too.Antvasima said:
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@Damage - The arm positions are also swapped, not just the Haki. But the consistent thing is that the arm taking the Kong Gun directly is ALWAYS the arm without Haki.
@Fix - (I wont re-link panels I already have in my previous post)
Pre-Gear 4th
1) Doflamingo blocking and evading does not debunk this simple fact: "Luffy never hurt Doflamingo outside of Red-Hawk before Law weakened him"
2) Law not being sent flying isn't a good testament to his durability. Fact remains he could not defend against Doflamingo's attacks without his blade (Or Haki when considering Doflamingo's DF attacks), and if you look, Law is being forced back with the sole exception of him catching the Overheat with his sword.
Misconception #4 6) "Luffy can hurt Doffy all the same (linking to chapter 782)", again, Doflamingo was in a horrible physical state and his durability and stamina would have been staggering. Not to mention Luffy's using Haki in his attacks, which already increases his attack power considerably. Luffy only hurt Doflamingo after striking his torso and during his moment of being stunned.
Misconception #5 7) "Luffy getting his head smashed in... stopping attacks by Duffy/BK" - Both cases are the Black Knight as made clear. We see the BK is the one kicking Luffy into the ground as we see the real Doflamingo facing Law in the same panel. Also, again, whether Luffy blocked the attack from Doffy or the BK, he did so with Haki (which again mitigates the affects of the DF), and was still sent flying backwards anyways.
8) Whenever and however Luffy breaks out of the threads, it is unknown, but what is known is that he could not remove them on a whim. Whether he slipped out (cuz rubber) or broke free (like in the anime), it would have taken him considerable effort to do so. Considering he couldn't break Doflamingo's threads with his own attacks, I doubt it was an easy task for him.
Slight Bellamy intermissio
9) Luffy was cut by Bellamy's swords. We see blood. idk the point of bringing this up.
10) Oh, no. I do not consider Bellamy to be weak. In fact, Bellamy did hurt Luffy and tire him. My problem is that people compare sheer exhaustion to sheer injury. the former (consisting mostly of bruising and mostly exterior damage while being exhausted in the process) can be compensated far more easily than the latter (involving massive blood-loss both external and internal, likely nerve shock and lethargy, any exterior shock being sent into his body disturbing his torn tissue and stitching, etc).
Misconception #6 11) Luffy does NOT block Doflamingo's Bullet Thread. He was trying to stop Doflamingo from shooting but was too slow. all he did was kick Doflamingo's arms down to interrupt his attack, but he failed.
12) Luffy stopping Doflamingo's kick from hitting Law is not a good point to argue. Again, Doflamingo's at his weakest because this is when he first stood up after beginning his self-repair process. The SECOND kick (also suffering from the prior mention) was deflected to the side. As I brought up regarding Kata vs Bound Man Luffy, redirecting energy from the side takes significantly less effort and power than meeting it head-on.
You bring up the damage that Law and Luffy inflicted on Doflamingo, but this is again ignoring several key facts
A weakened Doflamingo scales > Gear 2nd but < Gear 4th Luffy... yet not by much since he still pressured him and fought with him for over 20 minutes despite being weakened. If he's capable of fending G4 off WHILE WEAKENED, he would do the same, just better while healthy. I'm NOT saying Doflamingo would be equal or stronger to Gear 4th Luffy, but he would have performed better and dished out more damage.
Doflamingo's at full health is definitely >> G2 Luffy (especially if he can overpower him while weak) and probably still < Gear 4th Luffy, or he is probably =. Either point can be argued, but neither of these can be proven fact. That is the point of all this, and why I am always bringing this topic up. You can not downgrade Doflamingo because he is "maybe" weaker than Bound Man when his weakened state actually fended him off for an extended period of over 20 minutes
That's why if Gear 4th Luffy is scaled to a "5 Gigaton feat" and is made something like "6-C", then I'll debate for Doflamingo/Kata/Cracker as being > their current rating (be it High 7-A/7-A whatever), with a Possibly 6-C after (if not just that).
Law can't scale because the only attack he ever blocked himself was with Haki, and Doflamingo's AP is proven >> his Durability over and over again.
G2 Luffy can't scale because he was overpowered by a physically weakened Doflamingo, meaning he'd be even more inferior to a healthy Doflamingo--exhausted or not.
@Fix - (I wont re-link panels I already have in my previous post)
Pre-Gear 4th
1) Doflamingo blocking and evading does not debunk this simple fact: "Luffy never hurt Doflamingo outside of Red-Hawk before Law weakened him"
2) Law not being sent flying isn't a good testament to his durability. Fact remains he could not defend against Doflamingo's attacks without his blade (Or Haki when considering Doflamingo's DF attacks), and if you look, Law is being forced back with the sole exception of him catching the Overheat with his sword.
- Every time he blocks Doflamingo's attacks, he is forced to back-peddle. This is a common tactic employed by physically weaker combatants to mitigate the impact of receiving attacks. Law does this in both of his fights vs Doflamingo.
- Also, Doflamingo's "Bullet-Thread" went straight through Law's shoulder, and considering its position, it went through his shoulder-blade--BONE.
- Doflamingo's Fall-Bright also went through Law's torso completely out the front. This went through his flesh and organs.
- Also, this doesn't deserve a full section to itself: Law blocking Doflamingo's Goshikito was via Haki only. This would not scale to his durability as we've previously discussed numerous times that HAKI does not scale to the base stats of each character w/ the sole exception of Luffy in Gear 4th since he's using Haki constantly.
Misconception #4 6) "Luffy can hurt Doffy all the same (linking to chapter 782)", again, Doflamingo was in a horrible physical state and his durability and stamina would have been staggering. Not to mention Luffy's using Haki in his attacks, which already increases his attack power considerably. Luffy only hurt Doflamingo after striking his torso and during his moment of being stunned.
Misconception #5 7) "Luffy getting his head smashed in... stopping attacks by Duffy/BK" - Both cases are the Black Knight as made clear. We see the BK is the one kicking Luffy into the ground as we see the real Doflamingo facing Law in the same panel. Also, again, whether Luffy blocked the attack from Doffy or the BK, he did so with Haki (which again mitigates the affects of the DF), and was still sent flying backwards anyways.
8) Whenever and however Luffy breaks out of the threads, it is unknown, but what is known is that he could not remove them on a whim. Whether he slipped out (cuz rubber) or broke free (like in the anime), it would have taken him considerable effort to do so. Considering he couldn't break Doflamingo's threads with his own attacks, I doubt it was an easy task for him.
Slight Bellamy intermissio
9) Luffy was cut by Bellamy's swords. We see blood. idk the point of bringing this up.
10) Oh, no. I do not consider Bellamy to be weak. In fact, Bellamy did hurt Luffy and tire him. My problem is that people compare sheer exhaustion to sheer injury. the former (consisting mostly of bruising and mostly exterior damage while being exhausted in the process) can be compensated far more easily than the latter (involving massive blood-loss both external and internal, likely nerve shock and lethargy, any exterior shock being sent into his body disturbing his torn tissue and stitching, etc).
- I actually think Bellamy should scale to Base Luffy's durability (ONLY WITH HAKI cuz he never hurts him with a normal punch... I think?) because of this.
Misconception #6 11) Luffy does NOT block Doflamingo's Bullet Thread. He was trying to stop Doflamingo from shooting but was too slow. all he did was kick Doflamingo's arms down to interrupt his attack, but he failed.
12) Luffy stopping Doflamingo's kick from hitting Law is not a good point to argue. Again, Doflamingo's at his weakest because this is when he first stood up after beginning his self-repair process. The SECOND kick (also suffering from the prior mention) was deflected to the side. As I brought up regarding Kata vs Bound Man Luffy, redirecting energy from the side takes significantly less effort and power than meeting it head-on.
- The best that can be argued here is "Luffy momentarily compared in strength to an injured/weakened Doffy", as this is not Doflamingo as his healthiest/strongest/whatever.
- Luffy getting up is a stamina feat--just like when he kept getting up from being battered over and over by Katakuri during their several-hour long brawl towards the end of their fight before he used Snake-Man.
- You bring up Luffy claiming he needed one more attack to finish Doflamingo off (right before he lost Gear 4th), but this remains to be seen as a fact. Doflamingo could have (or not) gotten up regardless of being hit. This point can not be taken into account because we are debating "unknowns".
- You note it as the "fifth" attack, but this can not be taken into account because there is a massive window of time in which we do not see Luffy and Doflamingo fighting. Doflamingo and Luffy could have traded blows, or none. There's a lack of context.
You bring up the damage that Law and Luffy inflicted on Doflamingo, but this is again ignoring several key facts
- a) Law's attacks ignore durability within his ROOM. All the attacks he used on Doflamingo were within his ROOM.
- b) Luffy's only attack that hurt Doflamingo before they finally fought 1v1 was his Red-Hawk. Afterwards, the first attack he landed that dealt damage was the spin-kick to Doflamingo's torso, causing the latter to spew blood from his injury that he got literally a minute ago.
- c) Doflamingo while weakened proved to be physically strong enough to overpower and damage Luffy. That's the point I'm trying to make. Luffy can't scale to Doflamingo at all if he is already inferior to a weaker version of Doflamingo.
A weakened Doflamingo scales > Gear 2nd but < Gear 4th Luffy... yet not by much since he still pressured him and fought with him for over 20 minutes despite being weakened. If he's capable of fending G4 off WHILE WEAKENED, he would do the same, just better while healthy. I'm NOT saying Doflamingo would be equal or stronger to Gear 4th Luffy, but he would have performed better and dished out more damage.
Doflamingo's at full health is definitely >> G2 Luffy (especially if he can overpower him while weak) and probably still < Gear 4th Luffy, or he is probably =. Either point can be argued, but neither of these can be proven fact. That is the point of all this, and why I am always bringing this topic up. You can not downgrade Doflamingo because he is "maybe" weaker than Bound Man when his weakened state actually fended him off for an extended period of over 20 minutes
That's why if Gear 4th Luffy is scaled to a "5 Gigaton feat" and is made something like "6-C", then I'll debate for Doflamingo/Kata/Cracker as being > their current rating (be it High 7-A/7-A whatever), with a Possibly 6-C after (if not just that).
Law can't scale because the only attack he ever blocked himself was with Haki, and Doflamingo's AP is proven >> his Durability over and over again.
G2 Luffy can't scale because he was overpowered by a physically weakened Doflamingo, meaning he'd be even more inferior to a healthy Doflamingo--exhausted or not.
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Anyway, I'm in agreement with the consensus of Doflamingo's AP being "At least 7-A+, possibly High 7-A".
The point regarding Haki on both arms is just to point out that I think it is wrong to judge Doflamingo as "Capable of tanking Gear 4 blows without Haki". He did still take Gear 4 blows without Haki on two other occasions; the Culverin which knocked him flat on his ass from the sky, and the Leo Bazooka which temporarily incapacitated him for a while.
The point regarding Haki on both arms is just to point out that I think it is wrong to judge Doflamingo as "Capable of tanking Gear 4 blows without Haki". He did still take Gear 4 blows without Haki on two other occasions; the Culverin which knocked him flat on his ass from the sky, and the Leo Bazooka which temporarily incapacitated him for a while.
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@Damage - Slight correction (I was wrong about this too like 40 threads ago):
He used Haki to defend himself from the Leo Bazooka (Top left panel. Anime ruined my memory of this fight back when it came out). However, I will not put this against Doflamingo because unlike his arms/legs/face which would have only been slightly/moderately affected by the Gamma Knife (Organ and potential muscle damage to the torso will drastically affect motor function, blood-flow and feeling in the rest of the body), his torso is his weakest point, so any shock taken directly there would greatly affect him at the time.
(TL:dr; Doffy's tum-tum is his weak point atm, lol)
He used Haki to defend himself from the Leo Bazooka (Top left panel. Anime ruined my memory of this fight back when it came out). However, I will not put this against Doflamingo because unlike his arms/legs/face which would have only been slightly/moderately affected by the Gamma Knife (Organ and potential muscle damage to the torso will drastically affect motor function, blood-flow and feeling in the rest of the body), his torso is his weakest point, so any shock taken directly there would greatly affect him at the time.
(TL:dr; Doffy's tum-tum is his weak point atm, lol)
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@Cin; good point. I had not noticed him using Haki there before.
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>>1) Doflamingo blocking and evading does not debunk this simple fact: "Luffy never hurt Doflamingo outside of Red-Hawk before Law weakened him"
FALSE. Remember Luffy did injure him outside of red-hawk as you even mentioned. He also matched the power of Duffy/BK and latter just Duffy. Further remember you argued that Duffy should scale to Gear 4 who never hurt him.
>>2) Law not being sent flying isn't a good testament to his durability. Fact remains he could not defend against Doflamingo's attacks without his blade (Or Haki when considering Doflamingo's DF attacks), and if you look, Law is being forced back with the sole exception of him catching the Overheat with his sword.
FALSE. While it is true Law was backing up in that instance he did not always have to and could have been playing footwork. Even if for the sake of discussion he was by sheer force, its a clear distinction from the massive distance Luffy sent Duffy. difference between Gear >Duffy>> than the difference between Duffy>Law
>>Misconception #1
I repeat, they did what they should have done for a 7-A or 7-A+. It is reaching to say those are feats indicative of a three times difference.
>>
>>12) Luffy stopping Doflamingo's kick from hitting Law is not a good point to argue. Again, Doflamingo's at his weakest
I addressed that he was weakeend and that is still not cause as proof for YOUR case. Read aboveplease.
>>Edit: 12b) I forgot to bring this up. You also point out Luffy getting up from taking damage from Doffy and his BK. This is a testiment to stamina, not durability. Whenever he was hit by Doflamingo, he was sent flying, took a lot of damage, and was momentarily staggered/stunned.
The exact same can be said about Duffy VS Gear 4. Duffy was damaged/pushed back by each Gear 4 hit and eventually defeated within 5 hits
>>Misconception 7
Luffy says he can beat Duffy in one more hit and he does so. You can argue it was because of KKG, but the reality is he did exactly what he said and Duffy has no feat of tanking another regular gear attack to prove otherwise.
Bellamy
I glad you agree now rememeber what this means. Bellamy outright proves haki and rubber aren't enough to bypass sufficient power (as did katakuri and I'm sure other characters). therefore the difference between Duff<<gear 4 is again >>>thent he difference between bellam<Luffy
FALSE. Remember Luffy did injure him outside of red-hawk as you even mentioned. He also matched the power of Duffy/BK and latter just Duffy. Further remember you argued that Duffy should scale to Gear 4 who never hurt him.
>>2) Law not being sent flying isn't a good testament to his durability. Fact remains he could not defend against Doflamingo's attacks without his blade (Or Haki when considering Doflamingo's DF attacks), and if you look, Law is being forced back with the sole exception of him catching the Overheat with his sword.
FALSE. While it is true Law was backing up in that instance he did not always have to and could have been playing footwork. Even if for the sake of discussion he was by sheer force, its a clear distinction from the massive distance Luffy sent Duffy. difference between Gear >Duffy>> than the difference between Duffy>Law
>>Misconception #1
I repeat, they did what they should have done for a 7-A or 7-A+. It is reaching to say those are feats indicative of a three times difference.
>>
- Also, this doesn't deserve a full section to itself: Law blocking Doflamingo's Goshikito was via Haki only. This would not scale to his durability as we've previously discussed numerous times that HAKI does not scale to the base stats of each character w/ the sole exception of Luffy in Gear 4th since he's using Haki constantly.
>>12) Luffy stopping Doflamingo's kick from hitting Law is not a good point to argue. Again, Doflamingo's at his weakest
I addressed that he was weakeend and that is still not cause as proof for YOUR case. Read aboveplease.
>>Edit: 12b) I forgot to bring this up. You also point out Luffy getting up from taking damage from Doffy and his BK. This is a testiment to stamina, not durability. Whenever he was hit by Doflamingo, he was sent flying, took a lot of damage, and was momentarily staggered/stunned.
The exact same can be said about Duffy VS Gear 4. Duffy was damaged/pushed back by each Gear 4 hit and eventually defeated within 5 hits
>>Misconception 7
Luffy says he can beat Duffy in one more hit and he does so. You can argue it was because of KKG, but the reality is he did exactly what he said and Duffy has no feat of tanking another regular gear attack to prove otherwise.
Bellamy
I glad you agree now rememeber what this means. Bellamy outright proves haki and rubber aren't enough to bypass sufficient power (as did katakuri and I'm sure other characters). therefore the difference between Duff<<gear 4 is again >>>thent he difference between bellam<Luffy
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@Dr. Fix; Luffy scales to somewhere below the value of Fujitora's calc.
So in other words: <420.669 Megatons
So in other words: <420.669 Megatons
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"Doffy likely using Haki on both" When this is factually inaccurate. Never a single panel showing him using Haki on both arms. No confirmation or implication this is even an error. The only iffy part is that Doflamingo's arm positions swapped.
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On the central panel it looks like Doflamingo's right hand and left arm are covered in Haki.
But aside from that, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Doflamingo would coat one of his arms with Haki to defend himself... then block with the other arm.
But aside from that, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Doflamingo would coat one of his arms with Haki to defend himself... then block with the other arm.
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@Dr. Fix; ah, yes. Thanks.
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@Ant - It would seem apparently not.
@Fix -
1) It's not false. And again, you're blatantly ignoring the injuries that Luffy inflicted on Doflamingo are AFTER GAMMA KNIFE. You know... the entire point I've been bringing up and you seem to be walking around in this argument because "Luffy hurt him" despite this only happening after DOFLAMINGO'S INSIDES WERE TENDER.
2) It's not false. Law still needed his blade to block Doflamingo's strikes and was moving backwards every time he blocked an attack. How does Law's durability scale? This makes absolutely no sense.
M #1) You do realize this is actually an argument supporting Doflamingo's "At least 7-A+", correct? The Possibly High 7-A is exclusively a Gear 4th topic.
12b) False. Doflamingo was not defeated and he got up. He was injured, but continued fighting. Also, again, for the 50th time now, WEAKENED Doflamingo got up from taking several blows from Bound Man.
M #7) Saying he'll need one more blow to defeat Doflamingo (while charging him) is a statement that can not be taken for granted since it remained to be seen. Meanwhile, King Kong Gun (Which is confirmed outright to be stronger than his other Bound Man attacks) is the attack he used. Therefore -> KKG > KG = Weakened Doffy's Dura.
Bellamy talk:
Again, you're shifting the argument to your favor by focusing solely on a single attack Doflamingo threw that was ineffective (again, while physically weakened) while ignoring the context of the rest of the fight.
@Fix -
1) It's not false. And again, you're blatantly ignoring the injuries that Luffy inflicted on Doflamingo are AFTER GAMMA KNIFE. You know... the entire point I've been bringing up and you seem to be walking around in this argument because "Luffy hurt him" despite this only happening after DOFLAMINGO'S INSIDES WERE TENDER.
2) It's not false. Law still needed his blade to block Doflamingo's strikes and was moving backwards every time he blocked an attack. How does Law's durability scale? This makes absolutely no sense.
M #1) You do realize this is actually an argument supporting Doflamingo's "At least 7-A+", correct? The Possibly High 7-A is exclusively a Gear 4th topic.
- You are wrong. Doflamingo hurt Luffy without Haki using two kicks on panel while he is weakened. Cracker cut Luffy's face without Haki. Katakuri i am unsure, but he already scales above Cracker anyways.
12b) False. Doflamingo was not defeated and he got up. He was injured, but continued fighting. Also, again, for the 50th time now, WEAKENED Doflamingo got up from taking several blows from Bound Man.
M #7) Saying he'll need one more blow to defeat Doflamingo (while charging him) is a statement that can not be taken for granted since it remained to be seen. Meanwhile, King Kong Gun (Which is confirmed outright to be stronger than his other Bound Man attacks) is the attack he used. Therefore -> KKG > KG = Weakened Doffy's Dura.
Bellamy talk:
Again, you're shifting the argument to your favor by focusing solely on a single attack Doflamingo threw that was ineffective (again, while physically weakened) while ignoring the context of the rest of the fight.
- You seem to look away from the fact that when Doflamingo was battling against Gear 4th Luffy with his threads, we never see him using Haki (either because he can't, or won't), yet he's pressuring Luffy all the same. Not to say he's EQUAL to Bound Man, but is a THREAT. Therefore DOFFY SCALES.
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That panel only shows the arm that is closer to Doflamingo. Only one arm is visible (well, in this case... a finger). Again, if there is an artistic error, it's likely the fact that the two arms swapped positionDamage3245 said:
(originally the right arm was behind w/ Haki, and I believe that's the case for the first two panels. After, we see it is the left arm behind w/ Haki, and the right arm in front. Whichever was in front at the time did not have Haki. So if there is actually an error, it's definitely arm positions, NOT shading)
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>>Now I know @Cin will say "Duffy was weakened". I do not deny this. Both are in pretty bad shape having taking many hits each from the get go from multiple characters. Remember the burden is on @Cin to prove Duffy is at a higher level. Just because he has been hurt does not mean his healthy state is high 7-A or whatever value assigned without proof.
1) You keep repeating the weakened bit so I'm just going to quote myself here. Remember you keep saying they did not hurt Duffy like his durability is so much higher but he never tanks anything. Only dodges, blocks, and gets injured.
2) Simple physics. The sword doesn't boost Law's own rating. He has to be comparable to not be overwhelmed with force and/or have the blade sent flying out of his hand.
m1 I don't recall. Pics plese?
12 a) Again, Burden of proof. Luffy already clashed with Duffy/BK when healthy. Why should I think a healthy Duffy would not get hurt by Luffy?
12 b) As you say, stamina feat. Not a very good one compared to other characters that scale to there is a difference.
M7. Again, Duffy doesn't tank regular gear 4 to suggest otherwise.
Bellamy (?) Again, 20 minutes is not a good feat to suggest Duffy is = to Gear 4. Nor is off panle speculation.
1) You keep repeating the weakened bit so I'm just going to quote myself here. Remember you keep saying they did not hurt Duffy like his durability is so much higher but he never tanks anything. Only dodges, blocks, and gets injured.
2) Simple physics. The sword doesn't boost Law's own rating. He has to be comparable to not be overwhelmed with force and/or have the blade sent flying out of his hand.
m1 I don't recall. Pics plese?
12 a) Again, Burden of proof. Luffy already clashed with Duffy/BK when healthy. Why should I think a healthy Duffy would not get hurt by Luffy?
12 b) As you say, stamina feat. Not a very good one compared to other characters that scale to there is a difference.
M7. Again, Duffy doesn't tank regular gear 4 to suggest otherwise.
Bellamy (?) Again, 20 minutes is not a good feat to suggest Duffy is = to Gear 4. Nor is off panle speculation.
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Just want to say, I'm not sure which person is arguing for it, but I also think Doffy's physicals shouldn't scale to G4 Luffy, he was completely demolishing Doffy and the argument that Doffy was weakened is true, but we don't know how the fight would have gone if he wasn't injured so it's complete conjecture, I for one believe G4 Luffy had a massive physical advantage and would have been overpowering Doffy regardless of his injuries, as he does against most of the people he fought.
Using Doffy being weakened as an argument doesn't really work because we have no idea how he'd fair against G4 Luffy if he was healthy, for all we know he'd still be demolished by Luffy, he was overpowered everytime they clashed, being sent ragdolled whenever he tried blocking and only stayed in the fight due to his experience and devil fruit mastery/awakening.
Using Doffy being weakened as an argument doesn't really work because we have no idea how he'd fair against G4 Luffy if he was healthy, for all we know he'd still be demolished by Luffy, he was overpowered everytime they clashed, being sent ragdolled whenever he tried blocking and only stayed in the fight due to his experience and devil fruit mastery/awakening.
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@Purgy - No one is saying that Doflamingo is equal to Gear 4th Luffy physically. The matter is that Doflamingo should still scale due to engaging him off-panel for an extended period, and that we see Luffy being pressured.
@Fix -
1) I keep repeating the weakened bit because you're ignoring it at every turn whenever you try and pull up a feat of Luffy hurting Doflamingo after Chapter 781. Idk how "blocking" Luffy's attacks is an anti-feat since he does it against Luffy's Jet Gatling with 0 damage (albeit he used Haki) and blocked an Elephant Gun with his threads (and he scales to his threads durability anyways via Gear 4th). These, again, are clear indications his Dura is > Gear 2nd and 3rd AP by a large margin (Which is where the 7-A+ comes from, Not High 7-A. I recommend reading the descriptions in the sand-box)
2) You argue physics, but your logic is flawed. Law does not need anywhere near the comparable level of force to block the attacks and stand-firm when the attacks are not directly hitting him. The only thing that would be affecting his body is the shock of the attack going through his blade and up his arms, which btw is a ridiculously low percentage of the actual energy coming at him.
M7 Again, you're ignoring my points for the sake of supporting your argument. This is very immature. Doflamingo's arms are fine after taking a Kong Gun. He also takes Rhino Schneider and gets right back up. Culverin is the only attack out of the first three that left him on the ground and hurt, yet he still didn't suffer much damage as shown.
13) It actually is a good feat for Doflamingo considering he lasts longer than this and gets back up. Just as you say it "can't be used as proof Doflamingo scales to Gear 4th", it's more-so the argument that "It's proof that Doflamingo is a threat to Luffy, and is not easy to defeat" despite the fact that, you know... he's weakened.
Also, time he lasted is a stamina feat, not AP/Dura related.
@Fix -
1) I keep repeating the weakened bit because you're ignoring it at every turn whenever you try and pull up a feat of Luffy hurting Doflamingo after Chapter 781. Idk how "blocking" Luffy's attacks is an anti-feat since he does it against Luffy's Jet Gatling with 0 damage (albeit he used Haki) and blocked an Elephant Gun with his threads (and he scales to his threads durability anyways via Gear 4th). These, again, are clear indications his Dura is > Gear 2nd and 3rd AP by a large margin (Which is where the 7-A+ comes from, Not High 7-A. I recommend reading the descriptions in the sand-box)
- Also, how many times must I repeat that Red-Hawk uses haki + the fire explosion factor is accepted to bypass durability on his profile?
- Note how in C.781, Luffy kicks Doflamingo in his affected area to deal further damage
- Luffy throws two consecutive Haki kicks on Doflamingo's arm, and both are ineffective in breaking his guard.
- Luffy's only effective kick out of those is the one that strikes Doflamingo in his torso, where he was stabbed a minute ago, causing him to spew up blood.
- You may try to argue that these two follow up attacks hurt Doflamingo via the blood coming out of his mouth in both cases, but considering the previous page shows him already spewing out blood, and neither of these attacks leave an actual mark of Doflamingo's face, they were ineffective in actually hurting him despite being Haki strikes.
- Yes, I know I talked about vanishing injuries, but there were none on Doflamingo's face to begin with.
- Next, we have Chapter 783, where Luffy lands a kick on Doflamingo's arms that do no damage to him
- Luffy then proclaims that Law's attacks definitely weaked Doflamingo before again landing an ineffective Haki attack that Doflamingo regards as being weak.
2) You argue physics, but your logic is flawed. Law does not need anywhere near the comparable level of force to block the attacks and stand-firm when the attacks are not directly hitting him. The only thing that would be affecting his body is the shock of the attack going through his blade and up his arms, which btw is a ridiculously low percentage of the actual energy coming at him.
- Your statement makes it sound as though shields would be completely useless, as a club-wielding person would still damage you as much as if you didn't block even if he can't break the shield.
- Panels regarding the first kick: Luffy letting out an pained cry, and we see him spitting up blood in the top center panel while extending his arm out. He's in visible pain.
- Panels regarding the second kick: Doflamingo kicks Luffy with no Haki agai, Luffy lets out another pained cry, and we see him wiping a fresh injury on his cheek as he's struggling to get back up.
- First Interaction
- Second Interaction
- Third Interaction - Luffy uses Haki against BK's attack and is still overpowered and sent flying.
- We see no further interaction until Luffy sends the BK flying up after a Jet Gatling.
M7 Again, you're ignoring my points for the sake of supporting your argument. This is very immature. Doflamingo's arms are fine after taking a Kong Gun. He also takes Rhino Schneider and gets right back up. Culverin is the only attack out of the first three that left him on the ground and hurt, yet he still didn't suffer much damage as shown.
13) It actually is a good feat for Doflamingo considering he lasts longer than this and gets back up. Just as you say it "can't be used as proof Doflamingo scales to Gear 4th", it's more-so the argument that "It's proof that Doflamingo is a threat to Luffy, and is not easy to defeat" despite the fact that, you know... he's weakened.
Also, time he lasted is a stamina feat, not AP/Dura related.
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