GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
It's not that common to use pronouns to refer to the character in the profile anyway. It's not "He is able to harm X", it's usually "Is able to harm X", so we mostly won't even address Yamato by a pronoun anyway.
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One Piece General Discussion: Egghead
- Thread starter KingTempest
- Start date
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- one piece
- 15,439
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Yeah, but since it's such a sensitive, polarizing, and divisive topic, it's just better to go with the option that will offend the least amount of people, meaning we should just use gender neutral pronouns
Then we list her gender as "Unknown" with an explanation behind how she can be considered both sorta
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Well, my suggestion was just:
Gender: Male (Biologically female)
And I'm pretty sure Fandom would prefer that kind of label.
Gender: Male (Biologically female)
And I'm pretty sure Fandom would prefer that kind of label.
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Well it's not as simple as that, so it's probably better to leave it as unknown IMO
Unknown (Biologically Female, but has identified as Male due to their desire to identify as Kozuki Oden)
I really don't care what Fandom prefers if Fandom is being blatantly bias for one side of the argument
The method that offends the least amount of people is to just leave it as neutral... I mean even Oda is being intentionally vague about it and treating it like a joke/gag/meme
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If Yamato identifies as male then male is what we're going to list. The Kozuki Oden stuff isn't a detractor from that.
And you don't have to care about Fandom's decision, but Fandom's decision is what is ultimately final here.
And you don't have to care about Fandom's decision, but Fandom's decision is what is ultimately final here.
- 15,439
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See that's the thing tho, that's the debate that everyone is having, a lot of people are split on this issue and it's not a matter of fact thing
So let's just leave it as neutral so as not to offend anyone, it doesn't hurt anyone under the cirumstances
I've already stated how outlandishly unreasonable Fandom was about this on the One Piece Wiki, but what happens on the One Piece Wiki doesn't concern us here unless Fandom directly steps in to address us. We have never always followed the One Piece Wiki before and I see no reason to now.
Going the gender neutral route is fair to everyone and will hopefully avoid sparking more debates and controversy
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Yeah just make them Gender Neutral or Unknown, I see no reason to suck off Fandom and the whole "I identify as blank" debacle, which is to say, yes. I think the whole thing is stupid.
Or we make them a Futa
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Yeah I'm with Mitch on this one. I really don't care what the One Piece Wiki does, nor do I buy into how unreasonable Fandom is about the whole thing. If you want to piss off the least amount of people, gender neutral pronouns are the best way to go.
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If futa Yamato and Hiyori had a kid, would that be inc***?
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Maybe
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It's all a normal back and forth until the last two posts and I hate it
But yes, calling Yamato "Yamato" is for the best for now. We literally have no less than a few weeks at most to see how the crew handles it anyway. If they start calling Yamato "he", we'll do it. If Yamato drops the Oden cosplay and gets refered to as "she", we'll use it.
But yes, calling Yamato "Yamato" is for the best for now. We literally have no less than a few weeks at most to see how the crew handles it anyway. If they start calling Yamato "he", we'll do it. If Yamato drops the Oden cosplay and gets refered to as "she", we'll use it.
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I would be lying through my teeth if I said I was sorry lol
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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Does Yamato identify as Male outside of this role-playing shtick? Bruh.
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By the way I'm gonna leave the con o to you all, enjoy while I figure out matches to make.
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I don't mean to make it a huge debate and I definitely don't wanna offend anyone. We're all adult enough to have this topic without getting heated or being overtly rude. I'm genuinely trying to look at it at an unbiased baseline topic. The way Fandom handled this matter on the One Piece Wiki was very poor, and I don't wanna do it that way. I know how I would label the profile if I had control and I know how some others would label the profile if they had control. It's a very split issue with a lot of varying opinions. So the best way to appease everyone before it is stated with absolute certainty what the deal is, is to just go the neutral route.
I'm sorry to bring this up so crudely, but now that we're close to Yamato's profile being made, It's something we had to address sooner or later
I'm sorry to bring this up so crudely, but now that we're close to Yamato's profile being made, It's something we had to address sooner or later
- 21,468
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- Thread starter
- #7,336
If we can't decide on a gender and she's called 2 different pronouns, then we can genuinely just use both
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I honestly don't care about Yamato gender debate, i just want to make Esdeath vs Yamato sooner or later lel
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GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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How do you know that? And why? Transgenderism isn't something you develop overtime.
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1) Yamato refers to themselves as Kaido's son. Oden wasn't Kaido's son. If Yamato only saw themselves as literally Oden, then Yamato wouldn't refer to themselves as Kaido's son.
2) Yamato says that he "became a man".
3) When put in a situation that doesn't allow for mixed gender groupings, Yamato chose to put themselves in the male group. If Yamato identified primarily as female, then Yamato would have gone into the female group but he didn't.
I'm not an expert on transgenderism, so I wouldn't attempt to diagnose or evaluate Yamato in depth, but we do have clear indicators of the character's preference and this should be sufficient.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
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Yamato has a very distinct way of uniting their role-play with their actual life. They refer to themselves as "Kozuki Oden, but you can call me Yamato", alluding to the fact Yamato considers themselves to be both at the same time. The "Son" part is possible to be a factor that comes from Oden.
That factor is secondary to Oden. An afterthought, if you will.
Had Oden been anything else, female, non-binary, gender fluid, Yamato would have become that as well. I'd say if Oden was a literal dog, Yamato wouldn't hesitate to bark around Onigashima as well.
Well, that's fair, but a neutral point. They haven't dropped the Oden identity yet, if ever.
Well, I am, sort of. Yamato's case is more akin to gender dystopia rather than blatant transgenderism, their lack of self identity and clinging on what's borderline identity theft should be evidence of such. Furthermore, transgenderism is a psychological state, you have a man's identity trapped within a female body, Yamato did not have wishes, thoughts, or any of the sort to become a man before role-playing as Oden. I think calling Yamato a "him" is fair. I wouldn't slander people for calling Yamato a "her" though.
Still, although I am one hundred percent sure you will continue to be respectful while on this topic, I imagine this might trigger an argument from a third-party. If you wish to continue to have a chat about this, contact me on Discord, I'd love to hear more about your thoughts on this situation.
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People keep bringing this up as if it means anything, but why would a hypothetical affect our judgment here? If Yamato identified as female because Oden was female, we'd list Yamato as female. If Yamato identified as male because Oden was male, we'd list Yamato as male. I don't understand why some people have a hard time accepting that.
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This is a reddit thread I saw on the subject.
WrongIdea21
He/Him- 4,089
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Some people don't believe what Oda wrote and attacked People who believe in Oda, smh.
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I'm a little surprised Yamato's such a hot topic tbh- I thought it would be settled fairly quickly.
It's either that, or we could wait for the next few chapters then make the profile, at least to see how Yamato interacts with the rest about the 'Oden' name and whatever pronouns the crew might use. (Assuming Yamato's still joining-)
It's either that, or we could wait for the next few chapters then make the profile, at least to see how Yamato interacts with the rest about the 'Oden' name and whatever pronouns the crew might use. (Assuming Yamato's still joining-)
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I don't think it'll ever be entirely settled unless Yamato's holds up a sign above their head with "He/Him" in big bold letters and keeps it on him at all times.
- 21,468
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- Thread starter
- #7,348
Yamato identifies themselves primarily as Oden*
- 15,439
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Like I said, Unknown Gender and Gender Neutral Pronouns is the way to go
I know for a fact almost everyone here still considers her a Female, but to be fair to all sides, we should just go the Gender Neutral Route
Nobody should be bothered by that, right?
I know for a fact almost everyone here still considers her a Female, but to be fair to all sides, we should just go the Gender Neutral Route
Nobody should be bothered by that, right?
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Personally I don't have an issue with treating Yamato gender-neutrally. I vary between using male pronouns and gender neutral pronouns for Yamato. But our personal opinions shouldn't really factor into it.
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Well everyone has different interpretations and understandings of Yamato's deal
I'm not going to debate the specifics as I don't care for that anymore, having them be considered gender neutral on the profile offends no one and appeases all the pieces of the information we are presented with about the matter. Yamato has been addressed by both genders across everything that is canon, so just go gender neutral and it doesn't specify a single stance on the matter. Yamato is not as simple as Kiku.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
This point basically tries to say: The gender is an afterthought not truly representing Yamato's identity as an individual, thus, it should hold no more weight than a mere role-play and people shouldn't judge others because they're ignoring said role-play altogether when referring to them. Gender Dystopia isn't exactly what we'd call "identity".
This could be debunked or reinforced next chapter, or worse, not being addressed at all for the rest of the series. Either way, I don't mind Trans Yamato as long as it's entirely disconnected from Oden.
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I strongly doubt that it will ever be disconnected from Oden - but I don't think we have the option to ignore it either.
If you go up to Fandom and say "We shouldn't list Yamato as male because she's just roleplaying and pretending to have a different gender" then that's not going to end well.
If you go up to Fandom and say "We shouldn't list Yamato as male because she's just roleplaying and pretending to have a different gender" then that's not going to end well.
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i mean yeah, you'll get insta banned...
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Okay so I have a solution.
Gender: Who gives a ****, it's a fictional character.
Gender: Who gives a ****, it's a fictional character.
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Strictly speaking for my perspective, it's more about accuracy of the profiles/pages than actual gender of fictional characters being important.
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gets banned by fandom
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also gets canceled from the internet
