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One Piece General Discussion: Egghead

On another subject, could King beat Big Mom?

Or if he'd fought Kid and/or Law instead of BM, would he have won?

Lastly, I have concerns about Kid and Law scaling in AP to Big Mom (dura is fine considering how many hits they tanked from her):

1. Weren't all of Law's attacks that hurt her just durability negation?

2. Did Kid actually do any real damage that wasn't just slamming her into the ground (which is just Lifting Strength)?

He wasn't even the one who broke her arms, that was Law's durability negation attack according to BM herself.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Yamato also calls themselves Momonosuke's father... Should we include that on their profile?
Click to expand...
Yall better make sure whoever makes the profile doesn't say "father of Momonosuke".

But I'll explain it for the people in the back. And when I say "Yamato's delusion", I don't mean the gender identity for the people who wanna ban me for speaking.

Yamato identifies as Oden. This isn't a "Oden persona". He has adopted the identity of Oden and has assimilated his existence into his own. He thinks of himself as simultaneously the child of Kaidou and the parent of Momonosuke. If Toki was alive, Yamato would think of her as his wife. He explains to Luffy that he uses those pronouns because Oden used those pronouns. Yamato doesn't even address himself as Yamato first anymore. He says "I'm Oden, also known as Yamato".

Luffy enforces this and does an amazing job. He calls him "Yamabro" or "Yamao" to combine the fact that he's Yamato and a "male" in the sense of being Oden.

Onigashima's people called him the Oni Princess. People who first see him calls him Kaidou's daughter and he doesn't care. Before the enforcement of the beliefs that he's Kaidou's son, they call him the Oni Princess repeatedly.

The reason Kaidou calls Yamato his son and follows his pronouns is because he sees Yamato as Oden, and believes that Yamato should get the same punishments and same treatment that Oden has. This is why everyone addresses Yamato as "Master Yamato" and "Kaidou's son". This is why in their fight, Kaidou says "if you want to be Oden, you need to get your ass beat like Oden".

The bathing example is just a portrayal of why he's delusional. Momonosuke, who understands his identity first hand, is confused on why he's in the men's bath, yet he was raised around Kiku, a transgender, and has no issue with Kiku being in the women's bath.

We already know about Oda's view on it. Oda calls Yamato a woman. Oda calls Yamato the ogre princess. Oda uses female pronouns for Yamato. Oda's title card of Yamato is "Daughter of Kaidou, self proclaimed Kozuki Oden".
This isn't death of the author. This is the author enforcing his beliefs.

So the issue now isn't Yamato's pronouns. The issue is Yamato's delusions of being Oden.
Will Kozuki Oden be one of his names? Will Kozuki Oden be an alias? When we say people fought him, do we say they fought Kozuki Oden? Are we gonna make him another key of Oden?
Like are we gonna accept his pronouns but not his identity as Oden? He identifies himself as Oden more than he identifies himself as Yamato. Does gender identity get accepted but person identity get declined? Because not addressing Yamato as Oden would be bullying too by these standards.

Sorry, but this is something that needs to be discussed.
 
Eseseso said:
2. Did Kid actually do any real damage that wasn't just slamming her into the ground (which is just Lifting Strength)?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure I gave a whole list of all the times Kid damaged her on this very thread.
Eseseso said:
1. Weren't all of Law's attacks that hurt her just durability negation?
Click to expand...
Countershock isn't.
Eseseso said:
He wasn't even the one who broke her arms, that was Law's durability negation attack according to BM herself.
Click to expand...
He cracked her ribs.
 
Are we gonna make him another key of Oden?
Click to expand...

I know you're being a bit hyperbolic with some of these to make a point, but I think it should be obvious to anyone that Yamato's statistics aren't just going to be included as another key on Oden's profile, if that is what you mean.
 
Damage3245 said:
I know you're being a bit hyperbolic with some of these to make a point, but I think it should be obvious to anyone that Yamato's statistics aren't just going to be included as another key on Oden's profile, if that is what you mean.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's true, but my point is what is the limit we're going with this?

This isn't gender fluidiy. This is literally a combination of peoples' identity.

I personally believe Oda's very clear on this, which is why I was angry when LibraryOfOhara Artur tried to say it was Oda's fault for the community's misunderstanding.
But what's the extent we go with this?
 
Well, I don't think we need to take things too far and it's okay to be respectful of the concept of gender here without going all the way into complete fiction in other areas.

Does Yamato identify as male? That's more than arguable since Yamato said "I became a man", bathes in the men-only area, and refers to themselves as a "son".

Does Yamato identify as Oden? Partially. Yamato calls themselves Oden, but states several non-factual statements about themselves like being Momonosuke's father. However Yamato also identifies themselves as Kaido's son and Oden was not Kaido's son. So clearly even if Yamato professes to be Oden sometimes, this is not something objective about themselves or constant.

Things that are downright not true like Yamato being Momonosuke's father don't even need to be considered for being mentioned. We'll just ignore it. Yamato self-proclaiming themselves as Oden? That can be mentioned because it's a name, not a blood relationship.

Our profiles don't even have a section for aliases at present, so we should just add that to the "Name" section after Yamato's name.
 
I'm ngl

I don't even think this is a gender identity issue.

Yamato probably believes that he has a penis.
 
Humans.
lollipop-ice-cream.gif


Could never be us
monkey-drinking.gif
 
I don’t want to get dragged into this, but it seems strange to change the pronouns of Yamato when she doesn’t even want to be a man, Yamato just wants to be Oden because she is a fan. Yamato basically parades around as Oden. Sanji and Brook literally still have their gags around her, as does Momonosuke. This isn’t like Kiku which was clear cut. This is my only comment on this.

Also, I get that this isn’t coming from this wiki, but from Fandom. But the way this speech is being monitored would actually lead to Yamato being discussed less for fear of being banned or retaliated against.
 
Damage3245 said:
That isn't being ignored. Yamato's wiki page has a detailed section on Gender where that is mentioned.
Click to expand...
"The reasons for these discrepancies have not been addressed. Given the points listed above, however, this wiki will refer to Yamato as male as the official translations do."
i mean...summed up, they're basically ignoring it. "we dont know so we're going with male."

There's literally the option of they/them since the op wiki quite literally addresses japanese cultural distinictions that don't carry over to other cultures.
 
Damage3245 said:
That isn't being ignored. Yamato's wiki page has a detailed section on Gender where that is mentioned.
Click to expand...
Two of the "details" there is flat out wrong too- Luffy calls Yamato "Yama-o" (Yama-guy/Yama-bro) yet Yamato shows clear distaste at being called that.
Kaido doesn't call her "son" because he respects that, but because he wants Yamato to be Shogun. (And Sogun can't be female cuz culture weirdness)
Click to expand...
He's forcing the "son" on Yamato for his own ends. And what Yamato is doing is flat out identity theft to the point of being "Momo's father".
"The reasons for these discrepancies have not been addressed"
Click to expand...
That's not grounds for choosing one or the other then?? "They" would've been an okay in-between until the author clears it up.

I frankly do not care what this wiki decides for Yamato's pronouns, I just don't want it to get to the point of bans and greater controversy if someone calls the character something someone else doesn't. You're right if you say "he" because the pages say so. Yamato can identify as a sea cucumber and I'm cool with it all the same.
You're right if you say "she" because the author/narrator says so. That's my opinion at least (and the last one regarding the character. I'll call'em whatever the rest do when the page is made)
 
It's funny whenever issues of gender come up, people sometimes resort to extremes in their examples like "identify as a sea cucumber" or an attack helicopter, or whatever. I know that you probably don't mean anything by it, but that kind of stuff is exactly the type of language that transphobes use to dismiss trans people.
 
Damage3245 said:
"So I chose to be a man too." - Yamato

Why would Yamato refer to themselves as Kaido's son if he just wanted to be Oden? Oden wasn't Kaido's son.
Click to expand...

KingTempest said:
This isn't a "Oden persona". He has adopted the identity of Oden and has assimilated his existence into his own. He thinks of himself as simultaneously the child of Kaidou and the parent of Momonosuke. If Toki was alive, Yamato would think of her as his wife. He explains to Luffy that he uses those pronouns because Oden used those pronouns. Yamato doesn't even address himself as Yamato first anymore. He says "I'm Oden, also known as Yamato".
Click to expand...
He's both in one.
 
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