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One Piece General Discussion: Egghead

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Well fandom is corrupt
anogyOW.png

LXM9Y0v.png

Not calling a Yamato a man can get you banned from Fandom globally apparently...

Not gonna lie, that's some dictatorship stuff
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The paradox, if i think yamato is hot then I'm gay.... therefore my heterosexual status is gone, i will invent a new gender for me ngl
 
SnookB said:
All I know is
Yamato vs Catarina. Mythical wolf vs Mythical fox
Click to expand...
I already called this for so long, it such a missed opportunity of Oda doesn't do it
I also want Catarina mirroring what Tamamo no Mae did in the legend (like for example made a powerful kingdom fell due of her deceive/seduce)
 
Damage3245 said:
For what it's worth, I met that user personally while at Fandom's Community Connect. They're not an overbearing, judgemental dictator. The rules there are for people who are deliberately behaving in a transphobic way. Intentionally misgendering someone - when the balance of information shows primarily that they identify as male - is seen as breaking the rules and Fandom would only be handing out bans for repeat offenders and people who can't listen to warnings.

It's fair to have a different opinion; but if you're being warned that expressing that opinion a certain way is breaking the rules of the platform you're on, then it's probably not worth it to continue with it on that specific platform.
Click to expand...
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do," I guess.
 
Damage3245 said:
It's fair to have a different opinion; but if you're being warned that expressing that opinion a certain way is breaking the rules of the platform you're on, then it's probably not worth it to continue with it on that specific platform.
Click to expand...
Im not even gonna argue but lol…
You can have a different opinion but if you express it ur a goner. ♿️
 
Yes. I'm not going to tell you what to believe about characters; but Fandom has rules about you can say on its platform. I also understand that from the perspective of many it's an ambiguous situation but if someone is deliberately posting in bad faith then Fandom has the right to take action against them.
 
Damage3245 said:
Yes. I'm not going to tell you what to believe about characters; but Fandom has rules about you can say on its platform. I also understand that from the perspective of many it's an ambiguous situation but if someone is deliberately posting in bad faith then Fandom has the right to take action against them.
Click to expand...
Well that’s when this all goes to shit cuz they dgaf about bad faith, any misgendering, basically regardless of the context is a ban.

quoted from the post:
“To be completely clear, using anything besides he/him pronouns in reference to Yamato will be considered misgendering and will result in local wiki and global bans…I can say with confidence now, though, that he/him pronouns must be used in reference to Yamato, for this wiki to meet Fandom's standards of respect and inclusivity.”

Edit: like im not going to deny that the fandom has rules, cuz u know, obviously...but that doesn't deny that the rule is shit or an absolute rule, that if anything, ignores and contradicts the entire meaning to the inclusion that they "aim" to achieve.
 
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Damage3245 said:
For what it's worth, I met that user personally while at Fandom's Community Connect. They're not an overbearing, judgemental dictator. The rules there are for people who are deliberately behaving in a transphobic way. Intentionally misgendering someone - when the balance of information shows primarily that they identify as male - is seen as breaking the rules and Fandom would only be handing out bans for repeat offenders and people who can't listen to warnings.

It's fair to have a different opinion; but if you're being warned that expressing that opinion a certain way is breaking the rules of the platform you're on, then it's probably not worth it to continue with it on that specific platform.
Click to expand...
The issue is Yamato’s gender is not a done deal at all… And even then, it’s literally a gag… Yamato’s gender is literally treated as a meme constantly, that’s why Oda has Momo, Brook, and Sanji fawning over her

To suggest that calling a fictional character a different gender from the perceived gender of the staff member is BULLYING

That is ******* corrupt as hell. If I make fun of Sanji and call him a trash character for being dumb against women, I wouldn’t get banned would I? But that’s arguably a worse form of “bullying”. You can’t ******* bully a fictional character cause they’re not ******* real. But to suggest you will get GOBALLY BANNED because you don’t consider Yamato a man is jus horrendous

Like this is pretty shit… I’m not allowed to believe what I want to believe or practice my free speech because the higher ups on Fandom have made an executive decision on something that is far from concrete
 
Nobody said you're not allowed to believe what you want... but I don't think Fandom has ever declared itself to have unrestricted free speech on its platform. People aren't allowed to say literally anything they want to.

And in this case, I think it is partially motivated by an attempt to reduce the normalization of misgendering characters and create a safer environment for those minorities such as trans people. I'm not trans myself and can't speak for their experience, but if you have people discussing a character on the wiki and saying "Oh, this character isn't really this other gender because it's just in their head and they're making it up" then that I could see how it could impact them.

I don't think that Yamato is a traditional trans character like Kiku, I think it's more complicated than that, but I believe the community consensus on the OP Wiki was going to be changing Yamato's profile over to male anyway. Fandom just jumped the gun because at some point, these kinds of decisions are too sensitive to let them be truly democratic. And for a wiki, not all decisions about what goes in the page should be democratic.

Not saying you're wrong to believe whatever you want about Yamato; but the wiki can't cater to everybody or satisfy all points of view.
 
Damage3245 said:
Nobody said you're not allowed to believe what you want... but I don't think Fandom has ever declared itself to have unrestricted free speech on its platform. People aren't allowed to say literally anything they want to.

And in this case, I think it is partially motivated by an attempt to reduce the normalization of misgendering characters and create a safer environment for those minorities such as trans people. I'm not trans myself and can't speak for their experience, but if you have people discussing a character on the wiki and saying "Oh, this character isn't really this other gender because it's just in their head and they're making it up" then that I could see how it could impact them.

I don't think that Yamato is a traditional trans character like Kiku, I think it's more complicated than that, but I believe the community consensus on the OP Wiki was going to be changing Yamato's profile over to male anyway. Fandom just jumped the gun because at some point, these kinds of decisions are too sensitive to let them be truly democratic. And for a wiki, not all decisions about what goes in the page should be democratic.

Not saying you're wrong to believe whatever you want about Yamato; but the wiki can't cater to everybody or satisfy all points of view.
Click to expand...
The suggestion that you will get banned for it is my real concern

If they just said “We’ll be addressing Yamato as a man”, I’d be ok with it. I still wouldn’t agree with that conclusion as I think it’s far too vague to make that declaration. But hey, I wouldn’t really care as I agree it’s open to interpretation and I don’t give a **** as to what other people call her

But they basically said you have to refer to Yamato as such or it will be bullying and therefore you get banned globally… With no amount of lenience

That is pure corruption right there
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
The suggestion that you will get banned for it is my real concern

If they just said “We’ll be addressing Yamato as a man”, I’d be ok with it. I still wouldn’t agree with that conclusion as I think it’s far too vague to make that declaration. But hey, I wouldn’t really care as I agree it’s open to interpretation and I don’t give a **** as to what other people call her

But they basically said you have to refer to Yamato as such or it will be bullying and therefore you get banned globally… With no amount of lenience

That is pure corruption right there
Click to expand...
Yeah, this does sound a bit... extreme, to say the least.
 
Damage3245 said:
Nobody said you're not allowed to believe what you want...
Click to expand...
but ur not...hence the must...
Damage3245 said:
but I don't think Fandom has ever declared itself to have unrestricted free speech on its platform. People aren't allowed to say literally anything they want to.
Click to expand...
free speech in the context of preferred usage, you know...ur kinda stretching it with the decleration of free speech...
Damage3245 said:
And in this case, I think it is partially motivated by an attempt to reduce the normalization of misgendering characters and create a safer environment for those minorities such as trans people. I'm not trans myself and can't speak for their experience, but if you have people discussing a character on the wiki and saying "Oh, this character isn't really this other gender because it's just in their head and they're making it up" then that I could see how it could impact them.

I don't think that Yamato is a traditional trans character like Kiku, I think it's more complicated than that, but I believe the community consensus on the OP Wiki was going to be changing Yamato's profile over to male anyway. Fandom just jumped the gun because at some point, these kinds of decisions are too sensitive to let them be truly democratic. And for a wiki, not all decisions about what goes in the page should be democratic.
Click to expand...
inclusion is fine and should be welcomed, but forced inclusion to exclude others is quite contradicting...
Damage3245 said:
Not saying you're wrong to believe whatever you want about Yamato; but the wiki can't cater to everybody or satisfy all points of view.
Click to expand...
yeah so at the end of the day, satisfy those u can.
 
Well, for Yamato's page I'm fairly sure we'll end up putting:

Gender: Male (Biologically female)
Click to expand...

Explanatory notes like that should suffice, much like for Orochimaru's profile we put:

Gender: Male (Has possessed male and female bodies with his Living Corpse Reincarnation jutsu)
Click to expand...

I don't see the need for any controversy over that.
 
Not to sound defeatist but there won't be a "Gender debate". If it has been decided for the OP wiki, then it has been decided for our wiki too.
 
People won't argue over Ivankov and Bon Clay but they'll argue for Yamato.

I'm ctfu

Anyways cease this convo. We still count as fandom and we still follow their rules on this forum.
Let's not get banned over accidents. Agree or not, just ignore it.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I'm just concerned about how the OP Wiki handled this and am afraid Vs Battles Wiki will handle it this way as well
Click to expand...
Damage3245 said:
If it has been decided for the OP wiki, then it has been decided for our wiki too.
Click to expand...
Wait a damn minute.

We aren't the OP wiki.
We disagree with a shit ton of stuff the OP wiki says all the time. When did they become the end all be all for One Piece discussions here?

If you want to call Yamato a male on our wiki because fandom wanted to just ignore the views of everyone else, then whatever.
But don't do it because the OP wiki, who we share like 2 opinions with, said so.
 
@KingTempest; I didn't mean because the One Piece Wiki decided so. I meant because Fandom decided it for the One Piece Wiki, which means it would apply to all wikis on Fandom since I doubt they're going to selectively enforce their rules just for a single wiki.
 
That's headass.

From this point on
vsbattles.fandom.com

Emporio Ivankov

Miracles only happen to people who never give up!Emporio Ivankov Emporio Ivankov is known as the "Okama King", and is one of the leaders of the Revolutionary Army headed by Monkey D. Dragon. He was introduced as an vanished prisoner of Impel Down, hiding with other "vanished" inmates who were...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com

Bentham (Mr. 2 Bon Clay)

Even in the depths of Hell... blooms a beautiful flower of friendship... leaving its petals as mementos... bobbing back and forth on the waves... may it one day bloom once more... the Okama Way!!!Bentham Bentham, also known by his epithet "Bentham of the Wild" and his alias Mr. 2 Bon Clay, is a...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

We're going to give these 2 female pronouns, and replace the "Okama King" with "Okama Queen" like Ivankov usually does. I'm surprised they haven't tackled that and they still use male pronouns for every single Okama.

We're also going to add on "Yamato, also known as Kozuki Oden, is the son of Kaidou and the father of Momonosuke" on Yamato's profile.
It's clear that Fandom wants to agree with Yamato's pronouns but not Yamato's delusions, in order to please a handful of people, which is although noble, wrong and unfair.

This is just the enforcement of beliefs all over again.
We put the gender identity and we put the character identity as well. I'm not asking, I'm saying.
 
Ykw lemme just shut up before I get in trouble.

It's clear now that it's actually a dictatorship.

Don't get me wrong I have no issue with addressing Yamato as a him, just needs practice since I usually don't do it.
I just don't agree with how fandom's enforcing it and ignoring all context.
 
To be fair, I don't think Fandom has ever not been a dictatorship. Fandom has always had the final say on what content they host on their wikis. I was disappointed to learn that Fandom doesn't permit explicitly adult content on their wikis after a policy change a few years ago and some images have to be censored to be displayed on some pages, but it is what it is and it's their platform.
 
I genuinely don't want to offend anyone and want to make people feel welcome. I refer to Kiku as female and always have. I respect that because it is clear as **** as to what Oda is saying... But Yamato is literally a jummbled mess of things, the narration and Vivre Card very clearly call Yamato female, but then people call Yamato Kaidou's son and a man. But then Yamato says that it's because they are Oden and Oden is a man, and Oden would bath with the men... Like it is a shit storm of ideas that aren't clear. Yamato also calls themselves Momonosuke's father... Should we include that on their profile? Like what is the line here... I don't 100% know if Yamato is a female who's just calling themselves Oden, whether they are gender fluid, whether they are trans, or something else entirely... I've heard some people say well "Oh that stuff's outdated and Oda clearly changed his mind", but that isn't confirmed, so like why is it being made an executive decision?

This'll be my last comment on the subject as I have already given my stance on them several times and I don't wanna beat a dead horse. Sorry in general for this everyone, I know you don't wanna hear some nerd's ramblings about gender. I just needed to vent my fears because I am genuinely scared of being unjusticely banned because I don't call a fictional character a specific gender. That really hurts my opinion of fandom as a whole because as most of you know, I genuinely love Yamato a ton and want to see them become a Straw Hat. Like I am a big fan of their character, so whenever I call Yamato a female, I don't mean to put Yamato down.

Yeah, so once again, sorry for rambling and I'll drop the subject
 
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