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One Piece: Gear 5th Additions

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Cause he wasn’t fully… Dead, he came back and we did not know if he was fully dead or not
Except we do. You literally have the SFX of his heartbeat stopping. Kaido WAITED until he heard that then declared him dead.
Everyone who could sense his voice said it was out entirely, not "fading away", not "less". Just OUT. If it weren't for his fruit he would've stayed dead basically
 
Revisiting the chapter, just to double check, and:

Luffy lands on the ground, you get a Silence sfx.
Screenshot_1.png

Kaido, a guy who's observation haki is good enough that he can sense opponents from a distance away, was standing ten feet away from Luffy and ended up coming to this conclusion:
Screenshot_2.png

Another Observation Haki user makes note of the fact that his voice is gone. Your voice disappears if: A greater presence overlaps it (like when the snake ate Luffy and co in skypiea) or if you're flat out dead. As far as I recall your voice doesn't "go out" otherwise if you're still alive. (Much like a vivre card that fully goes out only when you're dead)
Screenshot_4.png

Cut back to Luffy.
The only noise is the background. No wheezing, no heavy breathing- only background noise:
Screenshot_5.png

Emphasis on heart beat starting again:
Screenshot_6.png


Next chapter-
"I was certain that you were dead" says a more than proficient observation user, who was barely ten feet away from Luffy. (Mind you, this is LUFFY, who's voice shouldn't be anything small either because he can use Conqueror's unconsciously)
Screenshot_7.png


Back to Luffy- a guy who's also so confident in his hype that his Haki/Lack of disbelief in himself is so strong even when out that he uses Haoshoku while fully unconscious:
Screenshot_9.png

And even he says he agrees about being "certain" being dead.


I fail to see what "more proof" is needed when a whole chapter and a page is dedicated to the fact that he died and doesn't know why he's alive either. WE on the other hand have the context of the fruit reviving him/restarting his heart.
 
I don't see the issue with "Possible Resurrection"

I'm just saying it wasn't 100% certain he was dead
 
I think everybody else's issue is that it was 100% certain he was dead. He just... stopped being dead
Objectively, we can say that everyone present with Haki thought that he was dead. So it's either possible that he was 100% dead, zero brain activity, zero pulse, his soul has left the building, etc.

Or it is possible they were just mistaken about him being dead because he was so close to death; but his Awakening saved him in time from being 100% dead. When Kaido says "I thought you were dead", what he means is that he himself made a mistake, not that Luffy was genuinely dead and stopped being dead.

I don't think strongly that he was still alive, or that he was completely dead, but I can see how it can be seen as a genuine Resurrection. So a Possibly seems fair to me.
 
Objectively, we can say that everyone present with Haki thought that he was dead.
This is a far, far bigger assumption than what the canon actually shows/tells us. His voice wouldn't go out if he was "almost" dead. Haki is based on the SPIRIT of a user. His spirit literally turned off is what the equivalent of "his voice disappeared" is. If his brain or vitals turned off his soul would likely still be strong without a doubt (considering his unconscious use of haoshoku)
When Kaido says "I thought you were dead", what he means is that he himself made a mistake
He says he was "CERTAIN" Luffy was dead. Not thought.
 
Objectively, we can say that everyone present with Haki thought that he was dead. So it's either possible that he was 100% dead, zero brain activity, zero pulse, his soul has left the building, etc.

Or it is possible they were just mistaken about him being dead because he was so close to death; but his Awakening saved him in time from being 100% dead. When Kaido says "I thought you were dead", what he means is that he himself made a mistake, not that Luffy was genuinely dead and stopped being dead.

I don't think strongly that he was still alive, or that he was completely dead, but I can see how it can be seen as a genuine Resurrection. So a Possibly seems fair to me.
The difference is that Haki doesn't get tricked by "close to death". A voice being gone means that a person is dead. That isn't up for debate.
We have showings of Momo seeing fading voices, so we know what it's like for a character to actually be close to death. It wasn't like that. His voice was completely gone. The fact that being alive produces a voice, and Luffy himself has a strong voice, his voice being gone means that he's not alive.

Haki thinking that he's dead means that he's dead.

Also, Kaidou doesn't say "I thought you were dead". He says "I was certain... that you were dead". This isn't "oh i thought you died", it means "from what I know, you died". Luffy, the owner of the body, thought the same thing too. This is why he killed the CP0 agent, because he knew he interfered and got his enemy killed.

Him "possibly" being dead is contradicted by everything saying that he actually was dead. People getting knocked out that bad has never been a thing of "oh he's dead" in all 1049 chapters of One Piece.
 
The difference is that Haki doesn't get tricked by "close to death". A voice being gone means that a person is dead. That isn't up for debate.
We have showings of Momo seeing fading voices, so we know what it's like for a character to actually be close to death. It wasn't like that. His voice was completely gone. The fact that being alive produces a voice, and Luffy himself has a strong voice, his voice being gone means that he's not alive.

Haki thinking that he's dead means that he's dead.

Also, Kaidou doesn't say "I thought you were dead". He says "I was certain... that you were dead". This isn't "oh i thought you died", it means "from what I know, you died". Luffy, the owner of the body, thought the same thing too. This is why he killed the CP0 agent, because he knew he interfered and got his enemy killed.

Him "possibly" being dead is contradicted by everything saying that he actually was dead. People getting knocked out that bad has never been a thing of "oh he's dead" in all 1049 chapters of One Piece.
I recall Aisa also saying voices were fading and disappearing while Enel was destroying skypiea.
If a voice disappears, that's just their spirit being ejected out their body (aka dying)
 
bIjZ7lz.jpg

"Dying"

This means he was in the process of dying, but not fully dead

That's why I say "Possible"
You know better than me that Luffy saying "I was dying before this" is him trying to rationalize the fact that he didn't even know what was happening to his body.
He's the same dude who said he was certain he died.

Literally the first thing he said when he "un-died" was "why can I still stand?" If he knew he was still semi-alive he wouldn't be questioning why he can do regular human functions.
 
You know better than me that Luffy saying "I was dying before this" is him trying to rationalize the fact that he didn't even know what was happening to his body.
He's the same dude who said he was certain he died.

Literally the first thing he said when he "un-died" was "why can I still stand?" If he knew he was still semi-alive he wouldn't be questioning why he can do regular human functions.
beat me by a milisecond kek

But yes that
 
Listen guys, I'm just saying I'm not 100% sure he died, but you are, there's nothing to be done about that

How about "Likely Resurrection" instead?
 
I'd prefer if his ressurection ability clarifies that so long as his body is intact he should be able to ressurect.
Because the guy is definitely not coming back from, say- decapitation, or something that blows him apart beyond repair
 
Disagree with flight, agree with the rest though i wouldn't mind if ress was limited or not.
 
I'll agree with Likely as well. I'm fine compromising on this since I'm not strongly in favor of either solid end.
 
WIth Gomu Gomu no Lightning, he can catch lightning in the air and throw it. He can also keep it stagnant in the air and spin around on a lightning bolt.
Question, isn’t this just NPI? Being able to touch lightning isn’t Lightning manip, just a form of NPI. The other justification is fine.
 
Lowkey should it be limited res since we don't know whether or not Luffy can ress every single time he dies and then goes into gear 5, or if it was merely a one time thing to activate that dormant Joyboy Black airforce energy. Or can a full rating be given despite the fact we don't know if they can do it more then the one time they've been shown to do it.
 
Question, isn’t this just NPI? Being able to touch lightning isn’t Lightning manip, just a form of NPI. The other justification is fine.
Agreed. Luffy isn't actually manipulating lightning here, just throwing it.
 
Question, isn’t this just NPI? Being able to touch lightning isn’t Lightning manip, just a form of NPI. The other justification is fine.
NPI was always a Luffy thing when it comes to electricity, but now he can also rubberize it.
Lowkey should it be limited res since we don't know whether or not Luffy can ress every single time he dies and then goes into gear 5, or if it was merely a one time thing to activate that dormant Joyboy Black airforce energy. Or can a full rating be given despite the fact we don't know if they can do it more then the one time they've been shown to do it.
His voice was fading again when he let G5 dropin 1045, then restartedthe "drum" and went right back into it. Seems like everytime his heart stops or is about to stop he just restarts it and goes back to top shape combat wise
 
His voice was fading again when he let G5 dropin 1045, then restartedthe "drum" and went right back into it. Seems like everytime his heart is about to stop he just restarts it and goes back to top shape combat wise
restarting a slowing heart isn't grounds for resurrection, seeing as Momo only says his "voice is dying out" so he was wasn't actually dead.
 
restarting a slowing heart isn't grounds for resurrection, seeing as Momo only says his "voice is dying out" so he was wasn't actually dead.
Dude, we're not talking about that, we're talking about a chapter prior when his heart was completely done
 
restarting a slowing heart isn't grounds for resurrection, seeing as Momo only says his "voice is dying out" so he was wasn't actually dead.
A chapter prior his heart stopped entirely and voice FULLY disappeared and he ressurected.
The one after his voice started fading fast according to Momo, but he basically restarted the beat without waiting for it to stop again. Meaning his fruit can do that process with heart restarting/speeding more than once
 
This is like saying that because a human can throw a rock at you, a human has earth manip
He not only changes the lightning's shape altogether when throwing it (where it gets zig-zaggy and comical-like) but can force a lightning bolt mid-strike to stop, grab it, twist around it and shoot off it like it's a rubber wall
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op_tcb_1047_008.png

The lightning even makes a "BOOM" sound in the official translation when he bounces off it, like he kicked off a solid surface
 
Yeah his heart had completely stopped, but he's only ever been shown to do it once, and that was when he first awakened the drums of liberation to become Joyboy (pretty sure that counts as grounds for special circumstances). There is no proof at all that if his heart were to stop again, he could just restart it and become gear 5th rather than just undergoing the transformation normally and then maintain the drums of liberation. Why else would Kaido tell him to check himself before he ends up dying (and please for the love of god don't use the fact Luffy says he's not afraid of dying as evidence of him still being able to ress)
 
Yeah his heart had completely stopped, but he's only ever been shown to do it once, and that was when he first awakened the drums of liberation to become Joyboy (pretty sure that counts as grounds for special circumstances). There is no proof at all that if his heart were to stop again, he could just restart it and become gear 5th rather than just undergoing the transformation normally and then maintain the drums of liberation. Why else would Kaido tell him to check himself before he ends up dying (and please for the love of god don't use the fact Luffy says he's not afraid of dying as evidence of him still being able to ress)
In that case he gets "limited" ressurection if he can do it only ONCE a battle.

Also his ability to self-ress goes hand in hand with Croc saying awakened Zoans can "revive" back in impel down.
 
I have to agree with this.

Him making the lightning rubbery is Transmutation.

Him throwing it is not lightning manipulation.
Honestly, I do agree.
Luffy combining awakening's transmutation and his NPI to electricity might not be "manipulation" in the traditional sense.
 
Yeah his heart had completely stopped, but he's only ever been shown to do it once, and that was when he first awakened the drums of liberation to become Joyboy (pretty sure that counts as grounds for special circumstances). There is no proof at all that if his heart were to stop again, he could just restart it and become gear 5th rather than just undergoing the transformation normally and then maintain the drums of liberation. Why else would Kaido tell him to check himself before he ends up dying (and please for the love of god don't use the fact Luffy says he's not afraid of dying as evidence of him still being able to ress)
We never said it's a thing that he can just do over and over. We just said that he died before, and he revived, so he can get resurrection.
Can he do it more than once? We don't know, and personally I don't think so. But he revived, so he could maybe get one time revival or something.

This is like saying that because a human can throw a rock at you, a human has earth manip
I have to agree with this.

Him making the lightning rubbery is Transmutation.

Him throwing it is not lightning manipulation.
That's fair
 
We never said it's a thing that he can just do over and over. We just said that he died before, and he revived, so he can get resurrection.
Can he do it more than once? We don't know, and personally I don't think so. But he revived, so he could maybe get one time revival or something.
Yeah i never said he SHOULDN'T get revival, just that it should be limited, or if that doesn't fit the bill i wouldn't mind a specification of it being a one time thing.
In that case he gets "limited" ressurection if he can do it only ONCE a battle.
100% and what i was vying for the whole time. Glad we see eye to eye and this won't devolve into a long drawn out argument.
 
The thing is I'm not sure if doing it "once" can warrant a "limited" rating. Is that how that works? Why don't we add a note to it that he can only do it ONCE until othewise is shown.
Also is him restarting the drums when he was going into cardiac arrest again and his voice was fading just "stamina manipulation"? Wouldn't that be kind of "revitalization" altogether? If that's even a thing on the wiki-
 
The thing is I'm not sure if doing it "once" can warrant a "limited" rating. Is that how that works? Why don't we add a note to it that he can only do it ONCE until othewise is shown.
Ex
Actly
Also is him restarting the drums when he was going into cardiac arrest again and his voice was fading just "stamina manipulation"? Wouldn't that be kind of "revitalization" altogether? If that's even a thing on the wiki-
We're severely lacking in stamina based abilities
 
we should get someone knowledgeable on the matter to answer because i highkey have 0 clue whether specifying its a one time use and that we do not know if he could do it again but keeping a likely rating, or merely calling it likely limited ress is the way to go
Also is him restarting the drums when he was going into cardiac arrest again and his voice was fading just "stamina manipulation"? Wouldn't that be kind of "revitalization" altogether? If that's even a thing on the wiki-
Fine with it being stamina manip, just peep the fact that him doing it is extremely risky and could have killed him when listing it under P&A
 
Welp- Ressurection goes down to votes it seems.
Stamina Manip is fine for now.

I don't know if there are "Zoan general" abilities that need to be added or not? Like resistance to animal manip. But this wouldn't be a gear 5 specific thing as much as it's meant for him in general (just when we update it to Model Nika)
 
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