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One Piece: Black Hole Mechanics
- Thread starter KingTempest
- Start date
- Status
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I'll categorise and slightly explain all of the major posts of the thread in this single post, hopefully this will increase the likelihood of more mods seeing and evaluating this thread.
Here's the OP which contains the calculation and an explanation behind the reasoning of the calculation. It was initially agreed upon by @Executor_N0 that this should be considered as a valid black hole, but is unsure at which level we should disregard the effects of a black hole under Newtonian gravity that this black hole makes. But with further debate and time, he has switched his opinion to being fine with what DontTalk has explained. Executor explains his position in more depth here.
@Damage3245 brings up some contentions with the calculation and some of the assumptions made by it. Multiple people respond with varying degrees of agreement and disagreement to these contentions a couple post down.
@DontTalkDT proceeds to hop in the thread and explain why he disagrees with the calculation and the assumptions it makes. Multiple people respond with varying degrees of argument and disagreement to these contentions a couple post down.
Further debating occurs while more calc group members respond to the post, with @CloverDragon03 seemingly agreeing with the idea of the calculation itself or some of the assertions made by the calculation.
I then brought up my main contention with the calculation itself, which is the assumption that since this object produces gravity on this specific level, the mass necessarily has to be equivalent with it. I don't agree this logically follows and I believe it requires more evidence than what's provided by the calculation. I received multiple responses but the main one was from @KingTempest.
DontTalk response to the arguments made against his interpretation here, which causes others to address his response a couple posts down. Here's my response to Neco's argument about how Oda's statements implies this structure has relative structure, in mass, when compared to actual black holes in real life. Clover proceeds to state his stance on this calculation remains the same.
@Migue79 explains his evaluation of everything that has occurred, specifically on the calculation itself and DontTalk's response against it. DontTalk and I drop our main responses. Some people agree and disagree with the points brought up by DontTalk and I, but KingTempest's response is the largest and most important one by far. @Arc7Kuroi drops a small, but relevant post on the main contention of this entire thread. Further debate happens until Arc again drops a relevant, but much larger post on the matter. The main response against it was from KingTempest.
KingTempest then drops a mega post explaining and addressing most, if not all of the main contentions going on in the thread. I addressed one of KT's previous posts. Further debate occurs, with people addressing my arguments, but that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. DontTalk addresses the exact KT post I previously responded to.
Further debate happens, with people addressing each other's arguments etc etc. None of which is entirely important to one's evaluation of this thread. @That_moron2 dropped an argument against DontTalk which contained a scan that directly stated the density the darkness created is what caused the darkness to have such an insane gravitational pull. However this scan was quickly discovered to be a mistranslation. More debate occurs.
Arc drops a post which contains all of the current staff opinions on this thread. More debate occurs, I respond to more arguments, people respond against those responses etc etc. That_Moron drops his final, mega post of thread and I respond with my last, major post on this issue as well. Further debate occurs with people just re-stating their opinions on the matter over and over again, with no one changing their minds on it. This is what we're currently at as of this moment.
These are all the main responses in this thread, hopefully this helps evaluating staff and normal members to understand the majority context behind what has been argued here and the arguments of both sides.
Here's the OP which contains the calculation and an explanation behind the reasoning of the calculation. It was initially agreed upon by @Executor_N0 that this should be considered as a valid black hole, but is unsure at which level we should disregard the effects of a black hole under Newtonian gravity that this black hole makes. But with further debate and time, he has switched his opinion to being fine with what DontTalk has explained. Executor explains his position in more depth here.
@Damage3245 brings up some contentions with the calculation and some of the assumptions made by it. Multiple people respond with varying degrees of agreement and disagreement to these contentions a couple post down.
@DontTalkDT proceeds to hop in the thread and explain why he disagrees with the calculation and the assumptions it makes. Multiple people respond with varying degrees of argument and disagreement to these contentions a couple post down.
Further debating occurs while more calc group members respond to the post, with @CloverDragon03 seemingly agreeing with the idea of the calculation itself or some of the assertions made by the calculation.
I then brought up my main contention with the calculation itself, which is the assumption that since this object produces gravity on this specific level, the mass necessarily has to be equivalent with it. I don't agree this logically follows and I believe it requires more evidence than what's provided by the calculation. I received multiple responses but the main one was from @KingTempest.
DontTalk response to the arguments made against his interpretation here, which causes others to address his response a couple posts down. Here's my response to Neco's argument about how Oda's statements implies this structure has relative structure, in mass, when compared to actual black holes in real life. Clover proceeds to state his stance on this calculation remains the same.
@Migue79 explains his evaluation of everything that has occurred, specifically on the calculation itself and DontTalk's response against it. DontTalk and I drop our main responses. Some people agree and disagree with the points brought up by DontTalk and I, but KingTempest's response is the largest and most important one by far. @Arc7Kuroi drops a small, but relevant post on the main contention of this entire thread. Further debate happens until Arc again drops a relevant, but much larger post on the matter. The main response against it was from KingTempest.
KingTempest then drops a mega post explaining and addressing most, if not all of the main contentions going on in the thread. I addressed one of KT's previous posts. Further debate occurs, with people addressing my arguments, but that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. DontTalk addresses the exact KT post I previously responded to.
Further debate happens, with people addressing each other's arguments etc etc. None of which is entirely important to one's evaluation of this thread. @That_moron2 dropped an argument against DontTalk which contained a scan that directly stated the density the darkness created is what caused the darkness to have such an insane gravitational pull. However this scan was quickly discovered to be a mistranslation. More debate occurs.
Arc drops a post which contains all of the current staff opinions on this thread. More debate occurs, I respond to more arguments, people respond against those responses etc etc. That_Moron drops his final, mega post of thread and I respond with my last, major post on this issue as well. Further debate occurs with people just re-stating their opinions on the matter over and over again, with no one changing their minds on it. This is what we're currently at as of this moment.
These are all the main responses in this thread, hopefully this helps evaluating staff and normal members to understand the majority context behind what has been argued here and the arguments of both sides.
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- Thread starter
- #403
Bro talking to a wall
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he just like me fr
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I don't know who'd be willing to comment on a contentious Calc Group thread for a major shonen verse, but I'll ping a few to hopefully get some traction here.
@M3X_2.0 @Therefir @TheRustyOne @DMUA @Jasonsith @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
Can you please take a look at the summary post of the issue put together by Deceived3596 just above for the different arguments on both sides?
The votes currently stand at 3 vs. 2 with DontTalkDT, Executor_N0 and myself being against the calc, and CloverDragon_03 and Migue79 being in favor of the calc. You can find the reasons why in the summary post above.
@M3X_2.0 @Therefir @TheRustyOne @DMUA @Jasonsith @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
Can you please take a look at the summary post of the issue put together by Deceived3596 just above for the different arguments on both sides?
The votes currently stand at 3 vs. 2 with DontTalkDT, Executor_N0 and myself being against the calc, and CloverDragon_03 and Migue79 being in favor of the calc. You can find the reasons why in the summary post above.
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I am indeed built like a brick wall, so this is correct. He was talking to a wall. Me.
And he's doing good work. Excessive length with no summary is 90% of the reason staff members don't comment on threads, and you should know that.
Anyway, after having gone through the relevant posts linked, plus a few besides them in the sections below, I'm finding myself more agreeing with DT here.
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which of dts points do you agree with exactly?
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One Piece: Black Hole Mechanics
@SnookB; Blackbeard has never actually displayed gravity yet on the same intensity as absorbing even light itself. Maybe that's something he'll actually be capable of, maybe not, but it sure seems like none of his current gravity feats have been that powerful yet. I'm against the idea that we...
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This thread still going? Damn. Took a quick skim through some messages just to see the same opps once again ignoring canon statements and making their own headcanon. If a character himself states that he can do so multiple times then he can. Whitebeard's df is capable of affecting the entire world yet he doesn't do so because he doesn't have any intention of doing so. The same can be said for black beard. Sometimes feats alone doesn't address everything, you have to look at things differently; story wise.
A devil fruit blackbeard fully knows well and understands and you basically saying he's a liar because his devil fruit cannot do this or that due to him not showning any signs of doing it just to feed off on your headcanon. Nobody is trying to destroy anything, they want to conquer. They only affect what whey want to affect as they have full control over their devil fruits.
I seem many times people mention numerous occasions where blackbeard controls his devil fruits yield and what not and still the opps ignore.
Blackbeard litterally
• Mentions his devil fruit renders everything to nothingness
• mentions that light cannot escape his devil fruit
• Calls his devil fruit the most unique of the devil fruits
• Allows himself and crew to walk over the black smog without being affected by the gravity which shows control over the it.
Logias as stated are all natural, this means blackbeard, so you cannot single him out!!
Lovely arguments for those for the thread. Give yourself a pat on the back.
A devil fruit blackbeard fully knows well and understands and you basically saying he's a liar because his devil fruit cannot do this or that due to him not showning any signs of doing it just to feed off on your headcanon. Nobody is trying to destroy anything, they want to conquer. They only affect what whey want to affect as they have full control over their devil fruits.
I seem many times people mention numerous occasions where blackbeard controls his devil fruits yield and what not and still the opps ignore.
Blackbeard litterally
• Mentions his devil fruit renders everything to nothingness
• mentions that light cannot escape his devil fruit
• Calls his devil fruit the most unique of the devil fruits
• Allows himself and crew to walk over the black smog without being affected by the gravity which shows control over the it.
Logias as stated are all natural, this means blackbeard, so you cannot single him out!!
Lovely arguments for those for the thread. Give yourself a pat on the back.
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Please supply scans for this. It would be helpful.
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Damage DT Exec are the 3 CGM currently opposing/disagree more than they agree with the OP, Crab disagrees with the OP, and clover as well as another CGM (I’m sorry I forget your name rn
) agree with the thread, KT also agrees
Serlock_Holmes
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Clover?Damage DT Exec are the 3 CGM currently opposing/disagree more than they agree with the OP, Crab disagrees with the OP, and clover as well as another CGM (I’m sorry I forget your name rn
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I said clover
Serlock_Holmes
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Sry I got nothing.
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@Migue79as another CGM (I’m sorry I forget your name rn
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Okay so I dug up a scan.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_576_06.jpg
We see here that Whitebeard doesn't get sucked in by the Black Hole despite standing on it.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_441_13.jpg
But here we see him turn the previously smooth ground into a crater. With no signs of rocks.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_441_14.jpg
And also compress Banana Rockhttps://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_441_22.jpg
See the rumble sound effect, and the pulverization which couldn't be caused by fire.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_576_06.jpg
We see here that Whitebeard doesn't get sucked in by the Black Hole despite standing on it.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_441_13.jpg
But here we see him turn the previously smooth ground into a crater. With no signs of rocks.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_441_14.jpg
And also compress Banana Rockhttps://cdn.****************.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_441_22.jpg
See the rumble sound effect, and the pulverization which couldn't be caused by fire.
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We can see WB in the process of being sucked in slowly in the first scan , there is sound effect and slow movement lines on top of WB.
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It seems to be more details in the smoke as similar lines are on top of bb
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No, those are clearly different from the smoke lines above BB.
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There is over 5 different sets of 2 lines identical to the ones above wb spread around the shot
There's nothing indicating he's being sucked in
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Again ,those lines above WB have nothing in common with the smoke lines , and there is sound effect that confirm my take.
You can even clearly see the same lines very close of multiples characthers moving slightly in the same page spread. You must not read manga very much if you can't identify them .
You can even clearly see the same lines very close of multiples characthers moving slightly in the same page spread. You must not read manga very much if you can't identify them .
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if he was being sucked in the story would've implied that, or at least showed it outside the scan, but it doesnt.
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Yup. We also literally see the darkness go from Whitebeard's boots up to the level of his knees during the course of that page... Not to mention we see him sinking into it in the anime.
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regardless of oda's size inconsistencies, whitebeard is still able to walk on the darkness, which shouldn't be possible. IF he was getting sucked in, it's at a massively slower rate than usual, which still confirms bb can control the gravity.
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I'm not following your logic.
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Wb resisted getting sucked in is what we currently accept...
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if it was resistance, blackbeard would have more of a reaction, imo
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blackbeard is arrogant, he called the yami yami no mi the strongest power.
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He would be shocked if a power he stated to be able to suck anything isnt working. Also bb needed whitebeard's body intact to do the fruit snatching thingy
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Read MoL’s explanation, cuz he provides an entirely logical reason why BB doesn’t have to react like a goofy goon
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That's not even true, it's only rumored to be is what blackbeard said... That's why he was even looking for it to begin with
Blackbeard is an insanely skilled planner and knows what he's doing, he's been under wb for years just to get this fruit and even wb's fruit
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This literally says he can manipulate darkness.
Largest Paragraph in Black Text: The power to manipulate darkness... it refers to the gravitational force that can even capture light! It has the ability to attract and crush everything and reduce it to nothingness. It can even nullify the abilities of other Devil Fruit users through its gravitational force, but it has weaknesses such as being the only Logia power with a physical form, and the ability to attract attacks from both enemies and allies alike.
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Databook Blue Deep btw
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