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One Piece: Black Hole Mechanics

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SeijiSetto said:
just for the record black holes have no fixed mass. you could have a 1kg black hole, you can have a 1 billion kg black hole.
the calc set the escape velocity of the black mist to the speed of light, thus you are treating it like a black hole with mass.
that's all ty
Click to expand...
Someone gets it 🔥
 
SeijiSetto said:
just for the record black holes have no fixed mass. you could have a 1kg black hole, you can have a 1 billion kg black hole.
the calc set the escape velocity of the black mist to the speed of light, thus you are treating it like a black hole with mass.
that's all ty
Click to expand...
It's because BB said not even light can escape.
We know that because of space bend in real Blackhole (event horizon).
If ig correctly, i'm not reading the whole Pages tho.

BB's Blackhole only have the force like real blackhole when its touching ( contact with the target). So the mass wouldnt affected the outside of the smoke and it's not have event Horizon that can bend space.
 
@That_moron2 As I already said, those two posts will be my final thoughts on this thread. I'm not continuing this same song and dance with you because it's ultimately pointless. We will never convince each other of our sides because we don't believe the opposing side has enough evidence and good argumentation to support their claim. It can't be helped, that's just the way it is.

So I won't be responding to that post, not because I don't disagree with it or anything like that. I'm just adhering to my previous statements on this matter. I'll let the mods review through all of our arguments and allow them to make their own conclusions.
 
That_moron2 said:
And it exhibits all the properties of an object that is as dense as we argue
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"All the properties"?

How many properties is that exactly?

You claim an "appropriate amount of destruction" it causes without backing that up.
 
I don't know how you can argue that it dealt an "appropriate amount of destruction" when you're arguing it produces an infinite amount of force and has mass larger than large planets, but was incapable of shattering old, wood structures into complete nothingness. That's just self-contradictory.
 
WrongIdea21 said:
It's because BB said not even light can escape.
We know that because of space bend in real Blackhole (event horizon).
If ig correctly, i'm not reading the whole Pages tho.

BB's Blackhole only have the force like real blackhole when its touching ( contact with the target). So the mass wouldnt affected the outside of the smoke and it's not have event Horizon that can bend space.
Click to expand...
as far as i understand it, the two arguments are:

1. with all the comparisons of BB's fruit being compared to a black hole, it should have properties like one, mainly mass

2. it can have gravity strong enough to stop light from escaping WITHOUT having a corresponding mass, there isn't enough proof that its force comes from its mass instead of some supernatural esoteric ability
 
SeijiSetto said:
as far as i understand it, the two arguments are:

1. with all the comparisons of BB's fruit being compared to a black hole, it should have properties like one, mainly mass

2. it can have gravity strong enough to stop light from escaping WITHOUT having a corresponding mass, there isn't enough proof that its force comes from its mass instead of some supernatural esoteric ability
Click to expand...
1. There's no explicit statement about the mass, that's why in KT's calc he use Th Escape Velocity to determine the mass, because there is no gravity without certain mass. He need to Reversed the escape velocity equation to find the mass.
2. How could Light be trapped if there's no such equavalent force?, Do have an example of phenomenoms to support your argument?
That's why I said Logia is Nature based power so it's not supranatural, what you espect would Oda draws? An Intersetellar movie like blackhole?.


This is getting weird or I'm just dumb.
 
Damage3245 said:
You claim an "appropriate amount of destruction" it causes without backing that up.
Click to expand...
Literally everything it touches, and he wants crushed is crushed and never comes out.
Deceived3596 said:
I don't know how you can argue that it dealt an "appropriate amount of destruction" when you're arguing it produces an infinite amount of force
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No im not. This is a strawman.
Deceived3596 said:
but was incapable of shattering old, wood structures into complete nothingness. That's just self-contradictory.
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We have been over this so many times. God. He can choose what he does and doesn't crush with the gravity. Stop bringing up stuff that was already addressed.
 
That isn't an "appropriate amount of destruction", if that's what you actually meant then you worded that horribly. An appropriate amount of destruction would describe the destruction caused being relative to the amount of force applied onto that surface area. You can't argue that's an appropriate amount of destruction for an object that exerts infinite force, but than also argue he's holding back the destruction it causes.

You either argue he's holding back the destruction it causes, and such doesn't exhibit the stated extents of his Devil Fruit. Or he does exhibit those traits and wasn't holding back the full potential of his gravitational pull. You can't have both.

Also, having gravitational pull isn't him exhibiting an infinite amount of gravity or the capacity to absorb light. That entire section of your post meant nothing because it doesn't even support your interpretation.
 
WrongIdea21 said:
1. There's no explicit statement about the mass, that's why in KT's calc he use Th Escape Velocity to determine the mass, because there is no gravity without certain mass. He need to Reversed the escape velocity equation to find the mass.
2. How could Light be trapped if there's no such equavalent force?, Do have an example of phenomenoms to support your argument?
That's why I said Logia is Nature based power so it's not supranatural, what you espect would Oda draws? An Intersetellar movie like blackhole?.


This is getting weird or I'm just dumb.
Click to expand...
i was more just talking about the 2 different arguments in regards to whether this is valid or not.
having gravity could be purely gravity manip (and thus no mass to speak of), which is what i mean by point 2. of course there's force, the disagreement comes when you try and say "this force is caused by its mass".
some people think it has mass that gives it such a pull, some think it's just supernatural gravity manip that gives it such a pull.
 
Deceived3596 said:
That isn't an "appropriate amount of destruction", if that's what you actually meant then you worded that horribly.
Click to expand...
Everything we see him go all out on(i.e human beings) are reduced to nothingness.
Deceived3596 said:
An appropriate amount of destruction would describe the destruction caused being relative to the amount of force applied onto that surface area.
Click to expand...
Yeah. We never see any of the marines that he sucks up again.
Deceived3596 said:
You can't argue that's an appropriate amount of destruction for an object that exerts infinite force,
Click to expand...
I'm not arguing that. I said that literally one message earlier.
Deceived3596 said:
but than also argue he's holding back the destruction it causes.
Click to expand...
*then
Also we do see him actually try to destroy things. The example with Ace that you have been referencing was him trying to demonstrate his power, which obviously he couldn't do if it was crushed.
Deceived3596 said:
ou either argue he's holding back the destruction it causes, and such doesn't exhibit the stated extents of his Devil Fruit. Or he does exhibit those traits and wasn't holding back the full potential of his gravitational pull. You can't have both.
Click to expand...
Except that he's used his devil fruit multiple times, and so both can be true, since we see he can do both.
Deceived3596 said:
Also, having gravitational pull isn't him exhibiting an infinite amount of gravity or the capacity to absorb light. That entire section of your post meant nothing because it doesn't even support your interpretation.
Click to expand...
What is thy blud baffling about?
 
That_moron2 said:
Everything we see him go all out on(i.e human beings) are reduced to nothingness.
Click to expand...
Supply scans for this please.

That_moron2 said:
Yeah. We never see any of the marines that he sucks up again.
Click to expand...
Which could be just because he hadn't released them yet. We see him sucking up other soldiers during Impel Down then releasing them.

That_moron2 said:
Also we do see him actually try to destroy things. The example with Ace that you have been referencing was him trying to demonstrate his power, which obviously he couldn't do if it was crushed.
Click to expand...
He said he wanted to show Ace what happened to the town he destroyed. He did not state that he could have crushed the town even further.
 
SeijiSetto said:
i was more just talking about the 2 different arguments in regards to whether this is valid or not.
having gravity could be purely gravity manip (and thus no mass to speak of), which is what i mean by point 2. of course there's force, the disagreement comes when you try and say "this force is caused by its mass".
some people think it has mass that gives it such a pull, some think it's just supernatural gravity manip that gives it such a pull.
Click to expand...
It's not purely gravity manip, darkness produce gravity, darkness is Logia, logia is natural based not supranatural, the control of it what makes it supranatural.
 
I'm not responding to @That_moron2 post because it will just continue this already pointless debate.

I might make one more mega post that breaks down, on a contextual and logical level, why the assumptions made by the opposition are incorrect and require more leaps in logic compared to the interpretations provided by me and others.
 
Damage3245 said:
Supply scans for this please.
Click to expand...
Sure.
Damage3245 said:
Which could be just because he hadn't released them yet. We see him sucking up other soldiers during Impel Down then releasing them.
Click to expand...
Those soldiers were sucked in prior to him using Liberation. Which is a move where Blackbeard is controlling his power.
Damage3245 said:
He said he wanted to show Ace what happened to the town he destroyed. He did not state that he could have crushed the town even further.
Click to expand...
I didn't say he did. But if the houses were reduced to nothing(which he absolutely should have been able to do gravity-wise), then what would there be to show Ace? The rocks collapsed just from the passive fight. That wasn't Ace by the way(it was pulverized not vaporized which is what Ace would have done), how could you honestly think that he can't destroy some old wood?
 
Deceived3596 said:
I'm not responding to @That_moron2 post because it will just continue this already pointless debate.

I might make one more mega post that breaks down, on a contextual and logical level, why the assumptions made by the opposition are incorrect and require more leaps in logic compared to the interpretations provided by me and others.
Click to expand...
Thanks for not responding btw. I am also very tired of telling you the same things.
 
blackbeard-is-the-final-main-villain-v0-3e9x2n6dwn3b1.jpg
 
The opposition arguments have been so bad i decided to log in after months to just clear some things up

"but was incapable of shattering old, wood structures into complete nothingness. That's just self-contradictory."
Click to expand...

The narrative gave us massive ammounts of direct clear cut information

1- The author compared his Powers to a Black hole across multiple different medias not just the manga, all of them are consistent and have no contradiction, him having infinite gravity but being able to control how much weight it will have is the most consistent thing across the series

2- The author gave us information about its "limits" the character is able to control the darkness to do what he wants, he can make people walk across it unscathed or use them to overwhelm the most powerful attack of a 6-b character.
He CHOOSES what his darkness will do, why did he not destroy the town to nothingness? Because he didn't want to, why didn't he do x? Because he didn't want and nothing about it contradicts what the AUTHOR stated multiple times about his Power

3- he got a pocket dimension in the Blackhole as well, if his intentions is just to trap people and objects in it and yeet it later that won't contradict point 1 and 2 of his Powers

4- "He said he wanted to show Ace what happened to the town he destroyed. He did not state that he could have crushed the town even further"

See point 1, 2 and 3
Blackbeard can CONTROL how much destruction his darkness cause and he can simply suck them in to his pocket dimension to do what he wants, maybe the intention of the author/Blackbeard was to showcase his ability to pocket things and yeet them out but nothing about it contradicts the many many statements supporting his power

Before anyone says its appeal to authority we have seen the extreme Control blackbeard has over his darkness and all of it fits even if we only use information from inside the story

The additional evidence from the author and many databooks just proves that even more
 
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I can't believe none of you are capable of understanding that original post.

I never disagreed with the idea that those properties do exist or exist to that extent. I was disagreeing with the idea that those properties were shown to that extent.

Please read what I'm actually saying instead of going into complete shutdown mode because I'm disagreeing with you on a One Piece calculation.
 
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KingTempest said:
lol

Can't he control the yield? He can make it to where he can pulverize buildings but choose to not pierce guards' skin
Click to expand...
Who said he can control the yield?

Romeu08 said:
Blackbeard can CONTROL how much destruction his darkness cause and he can simply suck them in to his pocket dimension to do what he wants, maybe the intention of the author/Blackbeard was to showcase his ability to pocket things and yeet them out but nothing about it contradicts the many many statements supporting his power
Click to expand...
This is never stated.

It seems like speculation as to why Blackbeard's darkness is so weak when the far simpler alternative is that he doesn't literally throw around infinite gravity.
 
All of you never considered that the town BB crushed was a higher D town:rolleyes: Classic OP downplayers.

On a more serious note here my own irrelevant opinion after reading the 4 pages of this : i tend to lean toward the opposition. I think they have better arguments and the fact that despite multiples uses of his fruit, BB never displayed anything like the level of destruction/power the statements he make imply.

Not to mention, that if his darkness had that much mass, what use would WB fruit be to him ? He would merely have to slam a bit of darkness on the ground to create much more powerfull earthquakes than WB or BW could ever hope to do with it.
 
Damage3245 said:
Who said he can control the yield?


This is never stated.

It seems like speculation as to why Blackbeard's darkness is so weak when the far simpler alternative is that he doesn't literally throw around infinite gravity.
Click to expand...
Its not speculation its explicitly SHOWN dozens of times he can control the yield of his blackhole
He allowed his entire crew to walk across his darkness unscathed while these same darkness resisted the strongest attack of a 6-b character

1- Its stated inside the series and by the author himself he can control the yield of the darkness

2- Has never shown an anti-feat

3- is compared to a literal Blackhole in ITS aspect of infinite gravity and sucking in light

So there's is no reason to believe he can't control his own ability

Your entire argument is literally "why didn't he do x?" Because he CHOSE to not do that because he can control what his darkness will do.
 
BasedNecoScaler69 said:
in order for a black hole to have 1kg of mass it would have to be extremely small
Click to expand...
ENTIRELY irrelevant to the point i was making.
the point i was making was black holes (in theory) have no fixed/minimum mass, because WrongIdea, who i was replying to, said "1/10th the mass of a black hole"
 
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