One Piece: Black Hole Mechanics

[Suigetsuhyugs]

His OG crew in pre timeskip was far from the “most dangerous people” and the fact that someone like croc didn’t know haki until apparently impel down despite gathering info and beefing with Whitebeard would only further prove that. Hell even if they did know haki why would there’s be strong enough to negate BB darkness when even Whitebeard was getting sucked up

First blackbeared got people from level 6 which is known for being only for the most powerful ones and blackbeared still made them fight so that only the most powerful would survive.
And Croc was in impel down for a few months tops the other blackbeared members were there for likely much longer.
Since the beginning of marineford it was stated that whitebeared was barely able to use haki at all and Blackbeared only went to fight whitebeared when he was already almost dead. Pretty sure one of the arguments mentioned was ace not being sucked because of his haki which would obviously be lower than whitebeared.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

First blackbeared got people from level 6 which is known for being only for the most powerful ones and blackbeared still made them fight so that only the most powerful would survive.
And Croc was in impel down for a few months tops the other blackbeared members were there for likely much longer.
Since the beginning of marineford it was stated that whitebeared was barely able to use haki at all and Blackbeared only went to fight whitebeared when he was already almost dead. Pretty sure one of the arguments mentioned was ace not being sucked because of his haki which would obviously be lower than whitebeared.

I was talking about his pre impel down crew. Were was this stated? BB literally decided not to suck him in and just show off is power

Spoiler

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I was talking about his pre impel down crew. Were was this stated? BB literally decided not to suck him in and just show off is power

Spoiler

Blackbeared already knew about haki pre impel down so whats stopping his crew members from knowing it? ITs pre time skip haki doe not even have a visible visual at this point.
His health was so bad he couldnt even dodge Squad and Marco specifically notes that, and there is also when Whitebeared tried to save ace he just cof blood, the fact that he never once used not even conqueror haki which already existed at the time.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Blackbeared already knew about haki pre impel down so whats stopping his crew members from knowing it? ITs pre time skip haki doe not even have a visible visual at this point.
His health was so bad he couldnt even dodge Squad and Marco specifically notes that, and there is also when Whitebeared tried to save ace he just cof blood, the fact that he never once used not even conqueror haki which already existed at the time.

Cool, that doesn’t mean his crew had developed their haki yet, much less to the point of completing ignoring BB black hole. Fair enough on Whitebeard

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

That's not the mass tho

you know uhh gravity is caused by high mass right

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

you know uhh gravity is caused by high mass right

you know uhh gravity in fiction can be manipulated without mass right, read our gravity manipulation page

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

you know uhh gravity in fiction can be manipulated without mass right, read our gravity manipulation page

except blackbeards fruit is stated to have a physical form

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

except blackbeards fruit is stated to have a physical form

You realize that’s not the same as “BB’s DF manipulates gravity via mass” right? Like you realize everyone knows his darkness has physical form and that hasn’t been argued against in the opposition?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

darkness... it refers to the gravitational force that can even capture light!

the darkness IS his gravitational force

 

[Damage3245]

the darkness IS his gravitational force

So another interpretation could be that Blackbeard is manipulating the gravitational force itself, not the amount of mass.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

So another interpretation could be that Blackbeard is manipulating the gravitational force itself, not the amount of mass.

that domain is already covered by the zushi zushi no mi

 

[Damage3245]

that domain is already covered by the zushi zushi no mi

There is nothing preventing comparable Devil Fruits from existing.

Such as the Kilo-Kilo fruit and the Ton-Ton fruit which both allow the users to manipulate their own weights but by different degrees.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

There is nothing preventing comparable Devil Fruits from existing.

Such as the Kilo-Kilo fruit and the Ton-Ton fruit which both allow the users to manipulate their own weights but by different degrees.

oda has stated that the yami yami no works similarly to a real-life blackhole, in which its mass correlates to its gravity.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

oda has stated that the yami yami no works similarly to a real-life blackhole, in which its mass correlates to its gravity.

Oda has never stated anything like that. He said it sucks in light, which is similar to how BH suck in light. But he has never stated it works like an irl BH.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Oda has never stated anything like that. He said it sucks in light, which is similar to how BH suck in light. But he has never stated it works like an irl BH.

He says its infinite gravitational pull is similar to that of a celestial black hole with the only difference being how he can unleash what he sucked up.

“Marshall D. Teach, a.k.a. Blackbeard, the master of the Yami Yami no Mi fruit, uses a technique called "Yami Anamichi. This technique generates darkness from himself and swallows up anything he touches with his gravitational pull. The power of this technique is so great that it can swallow an entire town. It also has an infinite gravitational pull that keeps any light from escaping. This part of the technique is similar to that of a celestial black hole. However, while something sucked into a celestial black hole cannot go out again, Blackbeard can unleash all that he has swallowed in one fell swoop with his "liberation".

I would think this would mean BB darkness has mass considering his comparing the two in that aspect

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

He says its infinite gravitational pull is similar to that of a celestial black hole

Notice how there’s 0 reference of mass or density

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Notice how there’s 0 reference of mass or density

blackholes are caused by mass getting compressed past its schwarzschild radius. Referencing mass or density would just be redundant.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Notice how there’s 0 reference of mass or density

Notice how he compares there gravity which is gained via mass

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Unfortunately, as is self-evident by our very own indexing site, having control over gravity does not inherently mean you have control over high density and high mass.

Take our gravity manipulation page, that which explicitly states that having the ability to manipulate gravity (which does not include manipulating something's mass) enables you to create black holes. Now turn to our size manipulation page, which explicitly includes the ability to manipulate density (increasing the density of an object would increase its mass, aka mass manipulation). These two abilities are not mutually inclusive, having gravity manipulation does not inherently grant your size manipulation, because we do not grant that manipulating gravity inherently means you are increasing the density of an object and therefore upping its mass.

Everyone knows that real world BH have strong gravity due to immense mass, that is irrelevant to the argument here, considering BB's darkness is not a real world BH, it explicitly displays properties irl BHs do not have. So the point that "oh Oda references irl BHs when he talks about the gravity of BB's darkness" is in no way proof that BB is manipulating this extremely dense and massive object.

 

[Deceived3596]

People don't understand how propositional logic works.

You can't assert this proposition true or false without evidence supporting it. You need actual, verifiable evidence that supports the claim that this object has mass equal with its gravitational pull. You can't just ambiguously assume it does because it's stated to have similar properties to a black hole, even if those properties are directly compared to a black hole in our reality. Having similar properties doesn't equate to those properties being gained through similar means.

If you can't support this claim with actual evidence, you can't assume it's true on a logical basis. Simple as.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I thought we were gonna wait for more staff

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I thought we were gonna wait for more staff

Ok I'll stop talking

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

People don't understand how propositional logic works.

You can't assert this proposition true or false without evidence supporting it. You need actual, verifiable evidence that supports the claim that this object has mass equal with its gravitational pull. You can't just ambiguously assume it does because it's stated to have similar properties to a black hole, even if those properties are directly compared to a black hole in our reality. Having similar properties doesn't equate to those properties being gained through similar means.

If you can't support this claim with actual evidence, you can't assume it's true on a logical basis. Simple as.

Oda talks about an actual blackhole in the beginning of the guide and only differentiates the two with BB being able to control the darkness, stopping it from completely annihilating people and objects. How BB darkness “gains” this properties is irrelevant cuz I doubt his secretly killing stars to produce his darkness. If BB is manipulating his darkness’s density to have a similar affect as a black hole then it is what is.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Bump

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Bump

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

@KingTempest Do you have any objections to this thread being closed? There's been no traction or momentum on it for several days.

 

[KingTempest]

@KingTempest Do you have any objections to this thread being closed? There's been no traction or momentum on it for several days.

I'll do the honors