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One Piece: ANOTHER Dressrosa Size Revision

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KingTempest

KingTempest

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Hi. We're here again.

Continuation of this
vsbattles.com

One Piece: Dressrosa Size Revision

So KT Redid Dressrosa's Size Again. Twice. Both Calculations were Approved, So this CRT is to decide if the numbers should be used, and if so which one. Calc 1: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/Dressrosa_Sizes_Revamped Calc 2...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

But with more supports.

Using my calculation with this support, I plan to use this to overshadow the currently accepted method.

Let's begin

My Calc (Agree): DemonGodMitchAubin, CloverDragon03, Dalesean027
Current Calc (Disagree): Damage3245
 
Last edited:
Following. Will probably send my extended thoughts on this in a more formal post when I have more time.
 
I’ll comment my initial thoughts later
D0C5E1D8B7607E38EA614941843678EE3193FDA6
 
I have some concerns over the new method being proposed for this.

The first and foremost being that it requires the assumptions that the windows on the outer wall of the palace are beyond the resolution of the human eye:

The human eye has an angular resolution of 0.02 degrees, and since those guys could barely glimpse the palace, much less the windows, I think this should be valid.
Click to expand...

While it is true that Kine'mon says this:

lrLP5LE.png


This is not complete confirmation that the windows of the palace are beyond the resolution of his eyes. He does state that he can barely glimpse the palace itself but no reference is made to specific features of it. The main focus of his speech is believing in the impossibility of sniping someone across that distance, which is fair enough. Even if he could see the tiny specks that are the windows on the outer wall of the palace, that doesn't mean he would believe that anyone is necessarily capable of threading a shot through them like Usopp ends up doing.

More importantly than that, we have confirmation that one of the people present can see the windows with his own eyes:

AqzCl5d.png


Viola asks Usopp: "Do you see the windows on the outer wall of the palace?"

Usopp answers with "Yeah."

Now, we know that Usopp cannot make out certain specific details over that distance because he asks Viola how many bars there are on the windows and what the size of the window panes are, but we do have confimration that Usopp can see the window itself. Usopp is not using any kind of sight-enhancing scope here nor is he using Observation Haki as he unlocks that later in the chapter.

So, as far as I can conclude from this, the actual windows of the palace are not beyond the resolution of the human eye and the basis of the calc becomes unreliable.
 
Damage3245 said:
Viola asks Usopp: "Do you see the windows on the outer wall of the palace?"

Usopp answers with "Yeah."

Now, we know that Usopp cannot make out certain specific details over that distance because he asks Viola how many bars there are on the windows and what the size of the window panes are, but we do have confimration that Usopp can see the window itself. Usopp is not using any kind of sight-enhancing scope here nor is he using Observation Haki as he unlocks that later in the chapter.

So, as far as I can conclude from this, the actual windows of the palace are not beyond the resolution of the human eye and the basis of the calc becomes unreliable.
Click to expand...
This could just mean the guy whose job is shooting from far away has good eyes.
 
Damage3245 said:
While it is true that Kine'mon says this:

lrLP5LE.png


This is not complete confirmation that the windows of the palace are beyond the resolution of his eyes. He does state that he can barely glimpse the palace itself but no reference is made to specific features of it. The main focus of his speech is believing in the impossibility of sniping someone across that distance, which is fair enough. Even if he could see the tiny specks that are the windows on the outer wall of the palace, that doesn't mean he would believe that anyone is necessarily capable of threading a shot through them like Usopp ends up doing.
Click to expand...
You basically just said no
He said he could barely glimpse the palace, and if you can barely see a large object, you damn sure can't see the small details on it.
We have several views of the windows being less than a pixel in size providing angles similar to the 0.02 figure. This debunk isn't saying much.
Damage3245 said:
More importantly than that, we have confirmation that one of the people present can see the windows with his own eyes:

AqzCl5d.png


Viola asks Usopp: "Do you see the windows on the outer wall of the palace?"

Usopp answers with "Yeah."

Now, we know that Usopp cannot make out certain specific details over that distance because he asks Viola how many bars there are on the windows and what the size of the window panes are, but we do have confimration that Usopp can see the window itself. Usopp is not using any kind of sight-enhancing scope here nor is he using Observation Haki as he unlocks that later in the chapter.
Click to expand...
#1 Usopp has incredible eyesight, as we can see in Enies Lobby where he was sniping from distances that the others couldn't even logically see on top of the tower
#2 That was Usopp asking Viola
#3 Both of them have incredible eyesight, with one of them having a supernatural devil fruit
#4 You can't debunk one person with average eyesight not being able to see it with another person.
 
To tackle the old method that is currently being used

It utilizes this panel of the mansion to calculate the size of the central tower
image.png

I'm heavily against this

First of all, it's common knowledge that there are times that Oda flat out stretches the size of characters in some unclear panels just to note where they are in reference to things, but that isn't the main debunk. It's the support.

You can't even tell that's Trebol in that Panel. It's so unclear that it's crazy.

It's like using this panel and saying it's good to calc Big Mom from it all cause "you can see her".
image.png


Or this of Kaidou and Yamato
image.png


Oda does this a lot. Get characters and "enlarges" them just to note where they're at in reference to large structures.

It's so bad we can't even see the character's clothing color.

This is the exact same reason as to why we disallowed other calculations in that blog in the last thread. They were too inconsistent and too unclear.

I don't think this calculation should stand at all.
 
KingTempest said:
To tackle the old method that is currently being used

It utilizes this panel of the mansion to calculate the size of the central tower
image.png

I'm heavily against this

First of all, it's common knowledge that there are times that Oda flat out stretches the size of characters in some unclear panels just to note where they are in reference to things, but that isn't the main debunk. It's the support.

You can't even tell that's Trebol in that Panel. It's so unclear that it's crazy.

It's like using this panel and saying it's good to calc Big Mom from it all cause "you can see her".
image.png


Or this of Kaidou and Yamato
image.png


Oda does this a lot. Get characters and "enlarges" them just to note where they're at in reference to large structures.

It's so bad we can't even see the character's clothing color.

This is the exact same reason as to why we disallowed other calculations in that blog in the last thread. They were too inconsistent and too unclear.

I don't think this calculation should stand at all.
Click to expand...
All that is supported by the fact that kaido goes from hill sized to being half onigashima's size in dragon form just because oda wants us to know where he is.
Or Pica having houses look like ants on his arms to Ushi being the size of a damn neighborhood to even look visible while running on him
 
I'm not knowledgeable on calculations, so take my opinion with a massive grain of salt but I'm currently leaning towards agreeing with KT's new calc.

I personally don't like using far-out shots with heavily skewed perspectives as it generally makes the characters either larger or smaller than what they actually are when compared to the structure around them. It's hard for artist, regardless of medium, to have consistent, far-out shots of their characters when compared with objects because of the difficulty of having consistency to such a range. Imagine drawing someone who takes up a larger section of the page, it's easier to add more detail to that image because of its size. Now, imagine trying to draw that same person with the same level of consistency when the image itself is multiple times smaller than the close up shot. It's impossible, any artist can vouch for this. So I'll start by saying that the assumption KT's making with his calculation is a better assumption to make than what is currently accepted.

I do believe Damage does bring up some potential problems with KT's argument. The statement doesn't necessarily mean they're incapable of differentiating the windows from the palace. An object being "barely" seeable, regardless of size, doesn't inherently mean you can't visualize differences between it, especially when "barely" as a word is subjective to interpretation. I do agree however that an object of large size being "barely" seeable can imply they're incapable of differentiating differences from it. I believe it's probably the most likely and logical interpretation here as the aforementioned "largeness" of the structure being almost unseeable by those who gaze upon it. If you're having a hard time seeing this large object, then massively smaller objects embedded into it are probably incredibly difficult to see or are completely unseeable from your perspective.

I also agree that using the fact that Usopp can see the windows as counter evidence against KT's calculation isn't the greatest given the level of feats that Usopp has with his eyesight and general sniping capabilities. I also see an argument that he could have been enhancing his eyesight in those panels given we're visually show a crosshair from Usopp's perspective, one that's similar to one you would see on a scope. This specifically occurs after Usopp puts on his goggles. So it can be interpreted that even though, from my knowledge, we aren't shown him tinkering up his goggles, he still could have done so off-screen. Hence the crosshair we're shown.

To distill my opinions down; I'm leaning towards KT's new calculation, but I do believe some of Damage's contentions do have some merit to them. I just believe the evidence and arguments provided by the other side are more convincing currently.
 
Deceived3596 said:
I also see an argument that he could have been enhancing his eyesight in those panels given we're visually show a crosshair from Usopp's perspective, one that's similar to one you would see on a scope. This specifically occurs after Usopp puts on his goggles. So it can be interpreted that even though, from my knowledge, we aren't shown him tinkering up his goggles, he still could have done so off-screen. Hence the crosshair we're shown.
Click to expand...
I'm still working on a proper response to KT but I'll address this potential argument.

I don't think the crosshairs are inherently proof that Usopp is enhancing his eyesight; I think it is supposed to just be a visual indicator that Usopp is aiming.

When Luffy uses his Devil Fruit to deflect cannonballs back at this opponnent deliberately instead of wildly bouncing them back, he gets a crosshairs over his eye to signify that he is aiming them. The crosshairs aren't a literal object appearing here but just a visual indicator that Luffy is aiming his attack.

Likewise for Law, he gets a crosshair scope over his eye when he aims his attack precisely at Doflamingo for his Injection Shot technique.

I don't think we have any reason to presume that Usopp is actually enhancing his eyesight here. Of course, that's just my interpretation of the page though but "Usopp could have tinkered with his goggles off-screen" isn't a strong argument.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm still working on a proper response to KT but I'll address this potential argument.

I don't think the crosshairs are inherently proof that Usopp is enhancing his eyesight; I think it is supposed to just be a visual indicator that Usopp is aiming.

When Luffy uses his Devil Fruit to deflect cannonballs back at this opponnent deliberately instead of wildly bouncing them back, he gets a crosshairs over his eye to signify that he is aiming them. The crosshairs aren't a literal object appearing here but just a visual indicator that Luffy is aiming his attack.

Likewise for Law, he gets a crosshair scope over his eye when he aims his attack precisely at Doflamingo for his Injection Shot technique.

I don't think we have any reason to presume that Usopp is actually enhancing his eyesight here. Of course, that's just my interpretation of the page though but "Usopp could have tinkered with his goggles off-screen" isn't a strong argument.
Click to expand...
Yeah, no.

Not only are the Law and Luffy examples not a POV shot, which means it has different implications than in Usopp's scene, but Usopp's crosshairs were shown in the orange tint of his goggles, which is something that Law and Luffy don't have. The implications of their scenes and Usopp's are completely different, and trying to equate the two to say that Usopp didn't enhance his sight isn't a strong argument .
 
Kachon123 said:
Yeah, no.

Not only are the Law and Luffy examples not a POV shot, which means it has different implications than in Usopp's scene, but Usopp's crosshairs were shown in the orange tint of his goggles, which is something that Law and Luffy don't have. The implications of their scenes and Usopp's are completely different, and trying to equate the two to say that Usopp didn't enhance his sight isn't a strong argument .
Click to expand...
The point is that the crosshairs aren't necessarily literal. Yes, the orange tint is there because it's a POV panel from Usopp's POV. That part isn't in dispute. Also the crosshairs themselves are still just black in that image, like the ones for Luffy and Law.

When we see Usopp's goggles directly, there are no crosshairs overlaid on top of them. Nothing to suggest that the goggles are literally enhancing his sight and that the crosshairs in the panel are anything but a visual indicator.

XUmjq70.png
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay, cool, that doesn't mean the same is happening here with Usopp.
Click to expand...
Was your issue with KT and Deceived"s interpretations not the lack of a crosshair overlay from the outside? We know that similar goggles to the ones Usopp uses has a cross hair, enhances sight, but doesn't show it outside, so why is Usopp's any different?

Usopp is using SNIPER GOGGLES to help him SNIPE from a FAR DISTANCE with the being CROSSHAIRS that indicate that they're assisting him simar to Gladius. I don't understand how your interpretation is more likely than theirs. There is much more pointing to the goggles enhancing Usopp's sight than your point of "but what if they didn't"
 
Kachon123 said:
Was your issue with KT and Deceived"s interpretations not the lack of a crosshair overlay from the outside? We know that similar goggles to the ones Usopp uses has a cross hair, enhances sight, but doesn't show it outside, so why is Usopp's any different?

Usopp is using SNIPER GOGGLES to help him SNIPE from a FAR DISTANCE with the being CROSSHAIRS that indicate that they're assisting him simar to Gladius. I don't understand how your interpretation is more likely than theirs. There is much more pointing to the goggles enhancing Usopp's sight than your point of "but what if they didn't"
Click to expand...
Let's put that aside for now then if we're just arguing interpretations with each other.

I'll focus my next post on responding to KT.
 
I'll respond to Damage's comment when needed. If he's making a response to KT's post than that should come first than us debating about personal interpretations on an argument I just casually brought up, I just positied the possibility, I didn't exclaim a level of concreteness.

I don't wish to extend the wait time of his response to KT, so I won't.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Can you give a general length of time it'll take to drop your response against KT's arguments? Just asking for clarity sake.
Click to expand...
I don't have a specific estimate yet as I'm having to go back through and reread a large amount of chapters but I won't try to make it too long.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm still working on a proper response to KT but I'll address this potential argument.

I don't think the crosshairs are inherently proof that Usopp is enhancing his eyesight; I think it is supposed to just be a visual indicator that Usopp is aiming.

When Luffy uses his Devil Fruit to deflect cannonballs back at this opponnent deliberately instead of wildly bouncing them back, he gets a crosshairs over his eye to signify that he is aiming them. The crosshairs aren't a literal object appearing here but just a visual indicator that Luffy is aiming his attack.

Likewise for Law, he gets a crosshair scope over his eye when he aims his attack precisely at Doflamingo for his Injection Shot technique.

I don't think we have any reason to presume that Usopp is actually enhancing his eyesight here. Of course, that's just my interpretation of the page though but "Usopp could have tinkered with his goggles off-screen" isn't a strong argument.
Click to expand...
I never claimed that Usopp is enhancing his eyesight.

I said he has naturally good eyesight
 
Damage, you're arguing against 10 different angles of similar consistency and a non-sniper saying he can't see the target all because the guy with the best sniping capabilities locked on.
Usopp isn't meant to be used for scale like it's some kind of counter.
 
KingTempest said:
I never claimed that Usopp is enhancing his eyesight.

I said he has naturally good eyesight
Click to expand...
Not to be pedantic but I never said you said Usopp was enhancing his eyesight. I was responding to Deceived's post.
 
I know that Usopp has incredible feats of perception, ones which definitely are superhuman. But it's probably better to grab those feats and show them rather than just ambiguously bringing them up his capabilities without proper evidence supporting the claim. That'll be way more convincing for someone like Damage I believe.
 
Personally I don't believe Usopp's eyesight really hinders or helps either side here. It's not like you can use the zoomed in shots to make claims on the normal perspective anyway, since it isn't a normal perspective in the panel. Really feels like a side tangent fluff debate to the actual relevant debate at hand.
 
Deceived3596 said:
I know that Usopp has incredible feats of perception, ones which definitely are superhuman. But it's probably better to grab those feats and show them rather than just ambiguously bringing them up his capabilities without proper evidence supporting the claim. That'll be way more convincing for someone like Damage I believe.
Click to expand...
KT already did that
 
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