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One-handed Katana, or a Sword & Shield? (Iaian vs Jaune Arc)

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Shmooply

Shmooply

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Feeling just a bit whimsical, might make OPM and RWBY supporters go to war as a joke.

Iaian -
Jaune Arc -
Zoro sweeps the floor with both -

Speed's equalized, Pre-Monster Association Arc Iaian and Post-Haven Jaune are being used respectively.
 
From a technical standpoint a broadsword and shield combo beats a single katana every time, shields kinda just hard counter katanas to the point that later eras of samurai had armor with build in shields (technically speaking armor in general just hard counters swords in general which is why weapons like maces and morningstars replaced them as full body armor became more commonplace)

In terms of the actual fight, what does Iaian scale to? Looking at his profile he doesnt have a ton by way of versatility and his skill feats are on par with Jaune's so I'm unsure how he would deal with Jaune's Aura (which is absurdly durable in comparison to the entire rest of the cast), AP amp, and fairly better arsenal.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Katana vs Broadsword, Katana wins most of the time.

Katana vs Broadsword and shield, Shield wins.

Gotta get that cleared up.
Click to expand...
I've actually heard Broadswords in general are better in combat IIRC. Though from what I've also heard, Katana's are easier to use due to being smaller.
 
SeijiSetto said:
skill feats are on par with jaune's? scans or like... any tangible proof?
Click to expand...
Yes

At the bottom of the skill chain is aura users as a whole. While every living being in RWBY technically has Aura, actually being able to utilize it for things such as defense, regen, and senses requires years of training and a high enough degree of martial skill (and yes you actually need martial skill for it) that only a small percentage of the population of the entire planet ever become skilled enough to utilize their aura. Of that small percentage, an even smaller percentage ever become skilled enough to manifest/control a Semblance (yes semblances are also skill-based). To reach this small percentage comes to the second half of the bottom of the chain: Almost every character worth their salt in RWBY has spent their entire life training in combat and can fight hordes of Grimm with little issue (Almost because Jaune exists). The entirety of the main cast of RWBY was initially enrolled at Beacon Academy, one of the most prestigious combat schools in the world, with almost everyone who was accepted there having been trained for almost their entire life to fight monsters, and each one that was not professionally trained requiring a skill display overseen by Ozpin, who has the composite skill of several thousand professional huntsmen that he accumulated over his immortal lifetime. Thats the baseline for skill in the verse.

Before the Beacon Arc Ruby had been personally trained by her uncle Qrow in combat and as a result she was noted as always excelling above her peers in combat training. At the start of the series Ruby was at a level of skill that even though she was two years away from being eligible to join Beacon she was admitted due her combat prowess impressing Ozpin, with him noting that she was already a master at wielding one of the most dangerous weapons ever designed. In combat Ruby is capable of taking on entire hordes of Grimm on her own and walking away without a scratch and utilizing the different functionalities of the Crescent Rose, such as the massive recoil from the rifle aspect of the weapon and the weapon's transformative capabilities, in tandem with each other and her Semblance in order to maintain an edge over her opponent. Basically every named character is around this level of skill in the early seasons. Now for Velvet. Velvet is able to perfectly and instantly mimic the exact moves that she observes other people use in combat as well as utilize multiple different fighting styles simultaneously, both armed and unarmed. Thanks to Anesidora, Velvet is also able to copy fighting styles that utilize weapons, and she is able to wield the weapons that she copies just as effectively as their original user. To date that we know of, Velvet is able to simultaneously utilize the fighting styles and weapons of Ruby Rose, Yang Xiao Long, Weiss Schnee, Blake Belladonna, Nora Valkyrie, Sun Wukong, Penny Polendina, Coco Adel, Peter Port, Reese Chloris, Fox Alistar, Vega Bleu, Yatsuhashi Daichi, Russel Thrush, Roy Stallion, Neptune Vasilias, Brawnz Ni, Bartholomew Oobleck, Flynt Coal, Edward Caspian, and Scarlet David. Of note, every person listed spent their entire lives training in combat and several of them are professional huntsmen with decades of combat experience.

Moving up the chain we have Nebula Violette, who not only outmatched Velvet in a 1v1 test of martial arts skill, but was directly stated to be more skilled than Velvet in combat despite Velvet mixing numerous fighting styles to try to throw her off in their fight. Above her is Pyrrha Nikos, the skill god of the Beacon Arc. Pyrrha is one of the most skilled students at Beacon Academy, having won every combat tournament she has entered since she was a pre-teen due to both her mastery of combat and mastery of her semblance, being able to apply it in combat completely undetected and having done so in almost every fight she's been in for over a decade, doing so with such skill and precision that she has lead many to believe she is untouchable and invincible as no one has been able to even land a blow on her in her combat career. Even without her semblance she has shown the ability to quickly and easily adapt to her combat situation and analyze her opponents while fighting and changing tactics to suit the situation she is in. She has shown extreme accuracy, being able to hit moving targets from hundreds of meters away and strike vital weak points on an opponent mid-combat both with and without the aid of her semblance. She is also highly skilled at using her weapon's multiple forms in combat, being able to switch between forms several times in rapid succession to both deliver rapid attacks and counter others simultaneously.

Then theres Mercury. Mercury is a veritable master of close combat, having spent his entire life training in pure martial combat to make up for his Semblance being stolen by his father. He is shown to be a very acrobatic and agile fighter who relies upon quickly overpowering his opponent with complex kicks that imply a near-mastery of martial arts that resemble Tae-Kwon-Do. He is also capable of a break-dancing style, similar to Capoeira, and makes use of Muay Thai as well. Despite his focus on kicks, Mercury also uses his hands to grapple, block or redirect enemy attacks. His experience and skill are aggressive and effective enough to drive even fighters of a high caliber, like Pyrrha, into a defensive position, with Word of God confirming that Mercury would defeat her if he fought her seriously. Due to his fighting style, Mercury relies on his swift and quick reflexes to counter and block his opponent's attacks as first demonstrated during his fight with Yang Xiao Long, altering the course of her punches and using his footwork to raise her fists and kick underneath or around her attacks. Despite the presumed awkwardness of his weapon's ranged capabilities he is a skilled marksman, able to shoot a phone out of a person's hand from a good distance away, and is proficient at using the many different forms of projectiles at his disposal to keep his opponents off balance. Mercury is also known to be observant, tactical, and analytical, able to notice and deduce the capabilities and limits of Pyrrha's Polarity Semblance after she uses it once during their brief fight, despite Pyrrha using it extremely subtly in combat and having spent her entire life honing her ability to hide her Semblance and its mechanics from her opponents and the general public.

This is where this key of Jaune sits in terms of skill
 
DaReaperMan said:
Katanas are generally more durable, sharper, and overall more well-made.
Click to expand...
I've actually heard the opposite. Broad swords due to being larger are more durable, longer (and range is actually op when it comes to weapons historically. Look into spears/polearms vs swords, 90% of the time spears/polearms win just because of range alone), better for parrying.

Can't speak for the more well made. But I've seen durability tests on the swords before. The same tests that ****** up the katana only left minor damage on the broadsword due to being bulkier.
 
SeijiSetto said:
Weren't a large majority of the things here debunked in the last RWBY thread?
Click to expand...
Not that I'm aware of no, that would require a verse-wide CRT as that is the currently accepted general skill scaling for the verse.

Disagreeing with a skill feat =/= debunking its existence, at that point youd have to have the writers rewrite the entire series lol
 
Simply put the writers of RWBY are awful at subtlety and nuance, they have a tendency to just outright say who is more skilled than who and they make their skill feats extremely blatant. Their skill wasnt 'debunked', it was disagreed with because it's a meme to say that rwby isnt skilled
 
DaReaperMan said:
Katanas are generally more durable, sharper, and overall more well-made.
Click to expand...
Katanas are actually pretty poor weapons, especially historically speaking. Most Samurai did not use Katanas in warfare, even before the age of guns. Katanas were a sidearm at best and a status symbol + self defense weapon during peace at worst.

A European sword offers way more in terms of combat techniques thanks to the double edge and hand guard. The difference isnt huge though and most fencing and Kenjutsu schools have a technique overlapp of like, 80% thanks to Japanese and European anatomy and thus biomechanical limitations being, you know, the same lmao.
 
LaserPrecision said:
I've actually heard the opposite. Broad swords due to being larger are more durable, longer (and range is actually op when it comes to weapons historically. Look into spears/polearms vs swords, 90% of the time spears/polearms win just because of range alone), better for parrying.

Can't speak for the more well made. But I've seen durability tests on the swords before. The same tests that ****** up the katana only left minor damage on the broadsword due to being bulkier.
Click to expand...
And I've seen tests where Broadswords shattered due to stress that a Katana no-sold, it's about if you properly make the Katana or not.
 
First_Witch said:
Katanas are actually pretty poor weapons, especially historically speaking. Most Samurai did not use Katanas in warfare, even before the age of guns. Katanas were a sidearm at best and a status symbol + self defense weapon during peace at worst.

A European sword offers way more in terms of combat techniques thanks to the double edge and hand guard. The difference isnt huge though and most fencing and Kenjutsu schools have a technique overlapp of like, 80% thanks to Japanese and European anatomy and thus biomechanical limitations being, you know, the same lmao.
Click to expand...
Indeed, cause the Samurai had this thing called "armor" made to deal with such attacks. Swords vs armor, armor wins every time unless it is actually awful. In terms of killing an unarmored target, Katanas we're built to be durable two-handed killing machines, while Broadswords were built to be able to not completely suck against armor.
 
DaReaperMan said:
And I've seen tests where Broadswords shattered due to stress that a Katana no-sold, it's about if you properly make the Katana or not.
Click to expand...
I'll have to look into that. I haven't run into a test yet where the broadsword broke before the katana. If it's simply a case of it being "properly" made, then I'd just say the same applies to broadsword given generic mediocre broadswords handle damage better than generic mediocre katana's.

I will say this though. Both serve different purposes, so it's hard to compare the two since both provide different advantages. But generally speaking, a broadsword user would end up beating a katana user from what I know. Longer reach which is op historically, and better for parrying/guarding. Disadvantage is obviously speed. But range more than makes up for it.
 
To explain for this battle, Iaian probably loses, Jaune has the better weapon for dealing with Armor as well as a Shield and a forcefield on top of that, making Iaian's weapon not be able to fulfill it's intended purpose despite Jaune having less armor in technicality.

Oh, and Iaian being one-handed doesn't exactly do him favors
 
DaReaperMan said:
Indeed, cause the Samurai had this thing called "armor" made to deal with such attacks. Swords vs armor, armor wins every time unless it is actually awful. In terms of killing an unarmored target, Katanas we're built to be durable two-handed killing machines, while Broadswords were built to be able to not completely suck against armor.
Click to expand...
...So did the Europeans. Far better armor in fact. The Sword still saw more usage there relativly speaking, cause halfswording. And you do know that most properly made Longsword are as effective, if not better because of their on average longer blade against unarmored targets?
 
OP be doing trolling and I love it. Also Hi again Weekly

So going into the fight Iaian takes this in AP, being at a comfortable 65.12 Kilotons while Jaune upscales from 29.12 Kilotons. That being said, Jaune's semblance allows him to amplify his stats, so the AP difference isn't as clear cut value as for who wins here. Since neither has really any hax abilities either, the victor from the fight will mostly be due to their skills and abilities here, so lets discuss that.

In terms of skill, I think Iaian takes this. As much as I can see Weekly's train of thought here regarding skill gaps, I don't think this can apply to Jaune here as he is still somewhat inexperienced compared to his compatriots. Don't get me wrong, he's definetely not as clueless as his Volume 1-3 self, but he doesn't quite matchup to the rest of the RWBY cast in terms of skill for a few reasons.

  • Even though he has improved in later volumes he does not quite match the fluidity and hunterlevel acrobatics that his other teammates manage.
  • Although Jaune has participated in a lot more fights according to the wiki in which he "wins", this was usually done as part of a group, and in half of them his contributions were not as significant in terms of actual fighting.
  • Jaune has definetely improved against Grimm, but he still loses against most human opponents such his first fight with Cinder in volume 5, his fight against Neo in Volume 7 and his second fight with Cinder in Volume 8. He did win against team FNKI in Volume 7, but even that fight was with help.
  • It should also be noted that Jaune is noted to have both incredible strength and giant Aura reserves, which has likely allowed him to keep up with dangerous opponents despite his lack of skill (at least compared to other cast members.
WeeklyBattles said:
Their skill wasnt 'debunked', it was disagreed with because it's a meme to say that rwby isnt skilled
Click to expand...
Nobody says it was a meme Weekly, just you.

Going onto Iaian's side however, while not much is really known about him, we do know he is the disciple of Atomic Samurai, who is an S-class hero, and is stated to be the greatest disciple out of his 3 current ones. He is also shown to have great skill with a blade as seen here in his fight against Devil Long Hair. So while Iaian's skill chain is much more simple, its more reliable than Jaune's due to the latters obvious inexperience and glaring problems with his skills, even in later seasons.

That being said, skill is only half of the battle here. As mentioned before, Jaune has Aura which can block Iaian's attacks, and is also noted to have incredible Aura reserves, so it would take some time before Jaune's Aura breaks and he can actually be hurt. That being said, Iaian's extrasensory perception and analytic prediction means that Jaune would struggle to hit Iaian either, though any hit that would connect would hurt a lot more than any strike that would hit Jaune, as least with Aura factored in. So it is possible Jaune could defeat Iaian before his Aura could run out. It also helps Jaune that he has superior lifting strength to the Samurai and also can attract items with his shield via Gravity Dust, so he could probably just pull Iaian's sword away from him if he gets the idea to do so, which he could given his natural leadership skills.

So there you go. Iaian has better base AP, skill and better reactions thanks to Extrasensory Perception/Anaylytical Prediction, but Jaune takes it in greater LS, superior defense thanks to Aura, the ability to pull Iaian's weapon with Gravity Dust and the ability to close the AP gap with Aura amps (possibly speed too, but I am not sure with that one atm). It could really fall either way here so I'm gonna sit on the sidelines a bit here, but I feel like everyone should get a clear idea on the advantages of each character before they make a verdict.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Not that I'm aware of no, that would require a verse-wide CRT as that is the currently accepted general skill scaling for the verse.

Disagreeing with a skill feat =/= debunking its existence, at that point youd have to have the writers rewrite the entire series lol
Click to expand...
Can I see the CRT where the skill scaling was accepted?
 
First_Witch said:
...So did the Europeans. Far better armor in fact. The Sword still saw more usage there relativly speaking, cause halfswording. And you do know that most properly made Longsword are as effective, if not better because of their on average longer blade against unarmored targets?
Click to expand...
And better for killing since broad swords are meant for fatal thrusts, whereas katana's are generally for cutting due to their shape. Not that cutting can't be fatal. But a thrust > cutting generally
 
Honestly, before we derail this like sweaty neckbeards talking about sword performance in a goddamn vs thread, I will just link the in my opinion most unbiased comparason video regarding the topic and leave it at that.

 
LaserPrecision said:
I'll have to look into that. I haven't run into a test yet where the broadsword broke before the katana. If it's simply a case of it being "properly" made, then I'd just say the same applies to broadsword given generic mediocre broadswords handle damage better than generic mediocre katana's.

I will say this though. Both serve different purposes, so it's hard to compare the two since both provide different advantages. But generally speaking, a broadsword user would end up beating a katana user from what I know. Longer reach which is op historically, and better for parrying/guarding. Disadvantage is obviously speed. But range more than makes up for it.
Click to expand...
Okay,

Indeed.
First_Witch said:
...So did the Europeans. Far better armor in fact. The Sword still saw more usage there relativly speaking, cause halfswording. And you do know that most properly made Longsword are as effective, if not better because of their on average longer blade against unarmored targets?
Click to expand...
Plate armor was clunky, had more exploitable gaps, and made the soldier slower. That's why swords could still be used; catching a gap was easier. Samurai armor was lighter, could still take a hit from a sword, and allowed for more fluid movement, making dodging or blocking easier, and was also why the usually heavier and longer range Naginata came into play, since it could bash through armor and still cut when needed.

As for length being better against unarmored targets is iffy, especially when talking about a weapon like a Katana that can lop limbs off better and easier then a Broadsword.
LaserPrecision said:
And better for killing since broad swords are meant for fatal thrusts, whereas katana's are generally for cutting due to their shape. Not that cutting can't be fatal. But a thrust > cutting generally
Click to expand...
For piercing damage, sure. But if you can cut deep into the target or lop a limb off, they'll go down. You can get stabbed in the gut and live, even back in the day.
 
FireSwordHero said:
So going into the fight Iaian takes this in AP, being at a comfortable 65.12 Kilotons while Jaune upscales from 29.12 Kilotons. That being said, Jaune's semblance allows him to amplify his stats, so the AP difference isn't as clear cut value as for who wins here. Since neither has really any hax abilities either, the victor from the fight will mostly be due to their skills and abilities here, so lets discuss that.

In terms of skill, I think Iaian takes this. As much as I can see Weekly's train of thought here regarding skill gaps, I don't think this can apply to Jaune here as he is still somewhat inexperienced compared to his compatriots. Don't get me wrong, he's definetely not as clueless as his Volume 1-3 self, but he doesn't quite matchup to the rest of the RWBY cast in terms of skill for a few reasons.

  • Even though he has improved in later volumes he does not quite match the fluidity and hunterlevel acrobatics that his other teammates manage.
  • Although Jaune has participated in a lot more fights according to the wiki in which he "wins", this was usually done as part of a group, and in half of them his contributions were not as significant in terms of actual fighting.
  • Jaune has definetely improved against Grimm, but he still loses against most human opponents such his first fight with Cinder in volume 5, his fight against Neo in Volume 7 and his second fight with Cinder in Volume 8. He did win against team FNKI in Volume 7, but even that fight was with help.
  • It should also be noted that Jaune is noted to have both incredible strength and giant Aura reserves, which has likely allowed him to keep up with dangerous opponents despite his lack of skill (at least compared to other cast members.

Nobody says it was a meme Weekly, just you.

Going onto Iaian's side however, while not much is really known about him, we do know he is the disciple of Atomic Samurai, who is an S-class hero, and is stated to be the greatest disciple out of his 3 current ones. He is also shown to have great skill with a blade as seen here in his fight against Devil Long Hair. So while Iaian's skill chain is much more simple, its more reliable than Jaune's due to the latters obvious inexperience and glaring problems with his skills, even in later seasons.

That being said, skill is only half of the battle here. As mentioned before, Jaune has Aura which can block Iaian's attacks, and is also noted to have incredible Aura reserves, so it would take some time before Jaune's Aura breaks and he can actually be hurt. That being said, Iaian's extrasensory perception and analytic prediction means that Jaune would struggle to hit Iaian either, though any hit that would connect would hurt a lot more than any strike that would hit Jaune, as least with Aura factored in. So it is possible Jaune could defeat Iaian before his Aura could run out. It also helps Jaune that he has superior lifting strength to the Samurai and also can attract items with his shield via Gravity Dust, so he could probably just pull Iaian's sword away from him if he gets the idea to do so, which he could given his natural leadership skills.

So there you go. Iaian has better base AP, skill and better reactions thanks to Extrasensory Perception/Anaylytical Prediction, but Jaune takes it in greater LS, superior defense thanks to Aura, the ability to pull Iaian's weapon with Gravity Dust and the ability to close the AP gap with Aura amps (possibly speed too, but I am not sure with that one atm). It could really fall either way here so I'm gonna sit on the sidelines a bit here, but I feel like everyone should get a clear idea on the advantages of each character before they make a verdict.
Click to expand...
Jaune's Semblance can amp him to Low 7-B

The three fights you listed were 7-C Jaune fighting opponents that were not only absurdly casual the entire time, but scale well above him in the skill chain and are above him tot he point of being able to oneshot him, of course he lost to them

And it only amps ap and dura, not speed
 
Also would Iaian's ESP and AP even work against Jaune? His profile implies it only works against monsters/opponents with strong killing intent
 
SeijiSetto said:
Here?

Cardin, who is High 8-C? I'm asking genuinely, I don't see it. I ctrl+f'd Semblance and I see nothing of the sort. It's not there.
Click to expand...
Hazel

His semblance amped weiss to the point of being able to impale Hazel through the chest through his aura, as well as later amping her to the point of being able to fully immobilize maiden penny with a gravity glyph
 
DaReaperMan said:
Okay,

Indeed.

Plate armor was clunky, had more exploitable gaps, and made the soldier slower. That's why swords could still be used; catching a gap was easier. Samurai armor was lighter, could still take a hit from a sword, and allowed for more fluid movement, making dodging or blocking easier, and was also why the usually heavier and longer range Naginata came into play, since it could bash through armor and still cut when needed.

As for length being better against unarmored targets is iffy, especially when talking about a weapon like a Katana that can lop limbs off better and easier then a Broadsword.

For piercing damage, sure. But if you can cut deep into the target or lop a limb off, they'll go down. You can get stabbed in the gut and live, even back in the day.
Click to expand...
Regarding the cutting bit, it usually depends on the type of broad sword and quality. I hear that at lower price ranges Katana > Broadsword in cutting power. But when you get to the higher price ranges with high quality the tindistinguishable when t comes to cutting.

That said, while you CAN survive after being shrough the stomach, the same couldfor if a limb is cut off. You're ****** either way in combat though. Thrusts are jst generally better offensively since ies range better cut would. It's also good for maintaining range. This is why 9/10 times a pole arm will thwart any kind of sword.
 
DaReaperMan said:
To explain for this battle, Iaian probably loses, Jaune has the better weapon for dealing with Armor as well as a Shield and a forcefield on top of that, making Iaian's weapon not be able to fulfill it's intended purpose despite Jaune having less armor in technicality.

Oh, and Iaian being one-handed doesn't exactly do him favors
Click to expand...
Iaian can predict 100,000 attacks coming at him from all angles with his eyes closed, relying on instincts, and only having a single arm.

There is absolutely nothing in that debunked skill chain that comes even remotely close to what Iaian is capable of with a sword.

And for the record, Katanas were weapons mainly used for decoration at the sides of Samurais. They were very poor combative weapons. And they are by no means better than the longer, thicker, and stronger European great swords, which have a history of being extremely versatile and great weapons in actual wars.

Voting Iaian.
 
(Technically it was probably like 20,000 per person since there was 3 of them there) Iaian ***** FRA
 
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