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Omnipresence in speed equalized matches

PrettyFearMachine

PrettyFearMachine

VS Battles
Retired
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I may be a part of the minority here, but isn't speed equalization with one of the combatants being omnipresent basically an equivalent of power restriction, which prevents a match from being added? Because that's what I see.

My thoughts are if omnipresence really matters in a match and speed is equalized, said match shouldn't be added, as you're basically taking away one's state of being, that is Omnipresence.
 
I would interpret speed equalization with omnipresence as the reaction speed being equalized.

Otherwise I would agree that making a character not omnipresent to equalize speed should probably not be added.
 
I agree that equalizing Omnipresence makes no sense, since it involves changing what the character fundamentally is, and may result in the character getting nerfed in areas other than speed. As an example, White Face would be hard to kill for any 3-A due to existing across and outside multiple universes, yet equalizing speed would imply that he loses said Omnipresence and thus becomes easier to kill...?
 
Omnipresence is not something that can be equalized, it do not qualify as speed. Equalizing would be as restricting an essential power of the character.
 
Also, I don't fully get why people imply that being Omnipresent gives you objectively superior reactions to non-Omnipresent beings. I get that since you're everywhere, you instantly win any movement speed debate, but I don't see why being Omnipresent would mean you would have superior reactions to a normal being.
 
I assume if they're omnipresent across time the opponent becomes immeasurable. For example, Eru Iluvatar is omnipresent, so if his speed was equalized against, just for example, Vecna, Vecna would get immeasurable speed.
 
Immsurable is technically useless in a battle against a character of finite speed (someone keep fighting in the same space). Temperal Omnipresence is just Temporal Existance + Omnipresence, one exist in any instance of time, remaining current thoughs and knowledge, so fighting against a 3d character wouldn't make it necessary faster.
 
IMO in omnipresent vs immeasurable, speed equal isn't necessary since they're roughly equal to begin with. Plus omnipresence isn't a speed, it's a state of being. I guess how you would go about it in speed equal is to make the omnipresent character's reaction speed equal to the opponent.
 
Antoniofer said:
Immsurable is technically useless in a battle against a character of finite speed (someone keep fighting in the same space). Temperal Omnipresence is just Temporal Existance + Omnipresence, one exist in any instance of time, remaining current thoughs and knowledge, so fighting against a 3d character wouldn't make it necessary faster.
Click to expand...
Temporal omnipresence means you are omnipresent through time only and not space. For example Solaris.
 
Immesurable is moving outside of the typical 3 dimensions, like time travel and beyond, against a 3d being, how do you expext to keep a fight if the character travel to another instance of time where the other could not be localized?
 
Immeasurable means being able to move through time as if it was just another axis of movement. There is an attack you want to dodge? Step back in time to exist in a time where the attack didn't exist. You can essentially imitate infinite speed just by staying in the same place in time, or casually attack in the past just by moving. So no, it's not "useless".
 
I was talking about immesurable movement, not immesurable attacks, also, "in a time where the attack didn't exist" sound like 5d immesurable speed (nothing bad, just poiting that out).

But my fault, I wasn't refering to immesurable in general, of course immesurable attacks are pretty useful, but I known characters with Immesurable speed (5d immesurable) andnget use conventional speed to keep up with 3d characters.
 
Simply being 5-D isn't enough for Immeasurable though? The whole point of Immeasurable is being beyond time.
 
Isn't moving through linear time as the same casuality as moving through 3 dimensions also immesurable?
 
The consequences for it are the exact same as that of a speed statistic. Hell, VSB actually even lists Omnipresence under the speed section when a character is such.

It's also usually working like a speed matter in fiction as in that case your actions basically translate to "Oh, you're starting to do x action? Too bad I already am at that point you're trying to strike except I also already went to your back, to your side, over you, under you, am in all of those places before I properly moved yet am not where you're striking. That's where I am. I don't even need to move per se".

Kind of like shown in this situation.
V139-011
 
@Fate Doesn't really change the fact that equalizing Omnipresence affects far more than just the speed, which is where the issue comes from.
 
No? Pretty sure the only things affected are speed related and MAYBE range on rare instances such as the White Face one. Which many times aren't an actual matter as the characters who get thrown at those 95% of the time have the range to actually cover for that.

Usually.
 
It gets even bigger if it's temporal omnipresence and the like as in that case you may as well throw a Immeasurable at a SoL character and say it's fair.
 
I see it as similar to equalizing Infinite/Immeasurable speed, in that if they keep the timehax resistances and stuff while equalized, Omnipresents should keep their side benefits.
 
It's not just range. By your very nature, if you're Omnipresent, you can't be killed unless the attacks of the opponent have enough AoE to affect the entire thing you're Omnipresent in. Going back to White Face, even if you nuke one universe, it won't kill him since he also exists in another universe. But without Omnipresence, he'd just die.
 
If he's just stuck in another universe he's still incapped/BFRed as is. Also, stuff like deathhax (depends on potency), concept manip, law manip, etc should still work.
 
Not really, given that he still has the range necessary to snipe.

If you have said abilities fine, but if you don't, you still can't just punch one part of an Omnipresent really hard and kill the entire thing.
 
^ What Wokistan said.

Physically wise maybe but Hax targetted at Omnipresent depending on potency should still kill. Same way you don't need to hit someone's whole body with something like Death Hax for them to die, you don't necessarily always need to hit full AOE of Omnipresent to kill them.
 
Also I fail to see how Omnipresence being affected by speed equal is any more restricting than throwing X Immeasurable character against Y with whatever lower speed and equalizing it.
 
I said before that an omnipresent should have their reaction speed equalized in speed equalized matches, however they still maintain their state of being. Let's say you're putting an omnipresent against a MFTL+ character. The omnipresent would simply have MFTL+ reaction speed.
 
It doesn't affect my point at all though. The fact that any non-speed advantages are lost at all in the process of equalization is a problem, no matter if some abilities can allow you to bypass it.
 
@Saik The only example you provided of such was WF and if someone told you in some VS Thread that WF being in two universes isn't/can't be a thing due to speed equalization despite it having the range for that, pretty sure they fooled you. lol
 
Example: Madoka 2-A Omnipresents. Pretty sure people always do consider size and such in UKG and Law of Cycles threads for one.
 
@SD Pretty sure I haven't ever seen a single thread where people disregarded Law of Cycles range of 2-A because of speed equalization.
 
It's more that Madoka only fought people with the range to affect her.

Given that I mean she would kinda stomp otherwise
 
There should be a thread buried somewhere out there in the depths of PMMM discussions where this was directly adressed. But I'll die before going in a search for it just for this.

Regardless, the point of the matter is more to evidence that the whole thing with WF in regards to prejudicing how far its range extends is the sort of stuff that isn't (or shouldn't) be disregarded even by the current definition.
 
Kaltias said:
It's more that Madoka only fought people with the range to affect her.

Given that I mean she would kinda stomp otherwise
Click to expand...
2-As not having range to match their AP is an oddity. Only one I know of is Chaos Shadow.
 
I mean, I think everyone agrees that omnipresents don't lose their subsidiary benefits at least.
 
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