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DMC and Omnipresence revision

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LephyrTheRevanchist said:
I can agree with this

Now, the reason this wouldn't necessarily be Immeasurable (I believe they scale to immeasurable anyways, so I won't contest that scaling), it's because while Void Mundus may be unbound by time, this by default does not mean he can trivialize time in the manner which we rate as Immeasurable Speed.

A true Immeasurable Speed character, as mentioned on the speed page, effectively is able to choose "when" the attack occurs. If the narration instead mentioned how Mundus is attacking Dante in the past, for example, as time lost meaning to him and so the linear flow doesn't apply, then we could ascertain he can just choose the "when" of the attack.

Infinite here makes more sense, as the void in itself is infinite. For Dante to avoid and find "empty spaces" (key phrasing, spaces and not "moments", "time" or "moments in time"), he would be outspeeding the attacks doesn't matter where they are made from.
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I agree with Lephyr and Planck. This is definitely a speed feat rather than a skill feat, and Infinite makes more sense given our strict standards for Immeasurable speed.
 
Robo432343 said:
Why can't it be both a speed and skill feat
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It certainly can be; any act of avoiding a bunch of attacks involves a lot of skill, but I was commenting on the currently accepted notion that skill alone can allow you to avoid an endless number of attacks by an Omnipresent character. There comes a point where skill simply can't carry you alone without the speed needed to act at certain levels.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
It certainly can be; any act of avoiding a bunch of attacks involves a lot of skill, but I was commenting on the currently accepted notion that skill alone can allow you to avoid an endless number of attacks by an Omnipresent character. There comes a point where skill simply can't carry you alone without the speed needed to act at certain levels.
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This is what the thread is about , the feat is both skill and speed, you can be fast enough to dodge attacks but the fact that you will have to avoid omnidirectional attacks coming all at once across a spatially infinite space from all directions in an instant requires a great skill and not speed alone,that’s why it will be both.
 
SYPHe5D said:
This is what the thread is about , the feat is both skill and speed, you can be fast enough to dodge attacks but the fact that you will have to avoid omnidirectional attacks coming all once across a spatially infinite space from all directions and all of space requires a great skill and not speed alone,that’s why it will be both.
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That's fine with me.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Gotta say it’s kinda insane this was ever considered “skill”.
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Ehh, I should probably point out this misconception. It is both a skill and a speed feat.

The part about it being skill comes from this thread.
Void Mundus is illustrated to the reader to be living darkness. An all encompassing darkness that surrounded the entire body. It envelopes light and exists as water would to a cup, filling it's container. (He is specifically given a word to regard to his body as fluid in nature.) Essentially, within Mundus' keep he is written to be Spatially Omnipresent. Dante proceeds to fight and dodge every attack Mundus can throw at him despite this, reacting to the Void's attacks on what is only instinctive reactions not even he understands.

To best paint the image of what Dante is doing within these passages, imagine being submerged within the depths of the ocean, and then moving so fast that you straight up dodge the water itself without leaving the water, or phasing.
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Essentially, Dante is fighting this sentient Void (that is compared to fluid/coagulated like living darkness) who is actually Mundus. The Void is actively trying to kill Dante by hurling all manner of death from all directions. The fact that it is a spatially omnipresent void means the attacks are spawning right at him from all directions. But, Dante passively, without even knowing how, dodges the attacks instinctively and nimbly dances around them while also attacking the Void. Even comments that he didn't even think it would be that easy.
 
Tanin_iver said:
Ehh, I should probably point out this misconception. It is both a skill and a speed feat.

The part about it being skill comes from this thread.


Essentially, Dante is fighting this sentient Void (that is compared to fluid/coagulated like living darkness) who is actually Mundus. The Void is actively trying to kill Dante by hurling all manner of death from all directions. The fact that it is a spatially omnipresent void means the attacks are spawning right at him from all directions. But, Dante passively, without even knowing how, dodges the attacks instinctively and nimbly dances around them while also attacking the Void. Even comments that he didn't even think it would be that easy.
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I did address that above.
 
Omnipresence isn't exactly my strong suit. And I know I commented on fighting someone who is Omnipresent won't default to being an Infinite/Immeasurable speed feat for a number of reasons; just because someone is omnipresent doesn't mean every attack they throw is, and omnipresents are technically immobile be default in terms of movement speed though combat and reaction may be a different story.

Though if they're omnipresent on a High 3-A sized realm and needed an AoE attack to strike them, it would have Infinite attack speed by default given it would need to generate a shockwave/blast radius that reaches infinite distance within a finite amount of time. And there are other Immeasurable speed feats iirc. But this clearly cannot just be a skill feat and there is speed going on yeah.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Dante outpaced attacks that can cover infinite distance, by nature of the attacks being omnipresent throughout an infinite void.

That's pretty much it.
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Unless the actual attacks have infinite speed feats, just dodging someone who's big enough to encompass an infinite distance wouldn't work since you can pull finite distances from infinity
 
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KingTempest said:
Unless the actual attacks have infinite speed feats, just dodging someone who's big enough to encompass an infinite distance wouldn't work since you can pull finite distances from infinity
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That's the thing

The entire void is attacking Dante. Or at least that's what I understood here.
 
Worth reminding Dante is completely immersed in said void. Not only his enemy is Infinite, but Dante is inside of it and still found his way
 
To make it simpler imagine being submerged completely in water, that’s the condition that Dante was in within the void/darkness.
 
I fullheartedly agree with this as the person who tried to implement this before in the DMC Gen CRT a few months back. It's implications are wild no matter what, especially when you remember that this Mundus is supposed to be faster than Argosax, who is Immeasurable. So as joked before, it'd literally be "infinitely immeasurable." Which just sounds incredibly goofy.
 
Grace is beyond over, so here's the votes for Infinite Speed for this feat bare minimum:

Agree: 8 - Planck69, LephyrTheRevanchist, DarkDragonMedeus, Maverick_Zero_X, UchihaSlayer69, Elizhaa, LordGriffin1000, Lonkitt,

Disagree: 0

Neutral: 2 - Theglassman12, KingTempest,

Yeah I think we can apply this now.
 
KLOL506 said:
Grace is beyond over, so here's the votes for Infinite Speed for this feat bare minimum:

Agree: 8 - Planck69, LephyrTheRevanchist, DarkDragonMedeus, Maverick_Zero_X, UchihaSlayer69, Elizhaa, LordGriffin1000, Lonkitt,

Disagree: 0

Neutral: 2 - Theglassman12, KingTempest,

Yeah I think we can apply this now.
Click to expand...
according to the rule you need to wait for 48 years from the day the thread is made
:whistle:
 
KLOL506 said:
Grace is beyond over, so here's the votes for Infinite Speed for this feat bare minimum:

Agree: 8 - Planck69, LephyrTheRevanchist, DarkDragonMedeus, Maverick_Zero_X, UchihaSlayer69, Elizhaa, LordGriffin1000, Lonkitt,

Disagree: 0

Neutral: 2 - Theglassman12, KingTempest,

Yeah I think we can apply this now.
Click to expand...

I added the changes, since this is a rather unique feat, I added a note linking this thread to its explanation

Thanks for all the replies
 
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