Nyer nyuh Kuramyuh (this is a Naruto revision)

[Arc7Kuroi]

So I have a few very simple and minor Kurama scaling changes and proposals, curious on y’all’s thoughts.

FIRST
So we have a ~12 Teraton calc for a charged Bijuudama that we split evenly between Kurama and Gyuki. However, Gyuki by feats is like Bijuu level, meanwhile half Kurama is 5x Bijuu level. So 5/6 of the calc should be Kurama’s and 1/6 should be Gyuki’s. Meaning half Kurama would’ve contributed ~10 Teratons while Gyuki would’ve contributed about ~2 Teratons. Aka half Kurama is 6-B with a charged Bijuudama and Gyuki is Low 6-B.

SECOND
So I made this size comparison calc. Bijuu are beasts of pure chakra, they’re chakra spirits. So my thought is, if Kurama getting split into his yin and Yang halves decreased his size 32x, his chakra would decrease 32x, aka be 32x weaker. I’m kinda unsure about this one and want some thoughts. Basically full Kurama would be 32x stronger than half Kurama if this is legit.

Agree- Godernet, Shadow (borderline neutral on the 32x point), Dattebayo, Soul (FIRST), Griffon (FIRST), KT (at least/most Low 6-B+))
Disagree- Damage, KT (SECOND), Soul (SECOND), Griffon (SECOND)

 

[Deceived3596]

So I have a few very simple and minor Kurama scaling changes and proposals, curious on y’all’s thoughts.

FIRST
So we have a ~12 Teraton calc for a charged Bijuudama that we split evenly between Kurama and Gyuki. However, Gyuki by feats is like Bijuu level, meanwhile half Kurama is 5x Bijuu level. So 5/6 of the calc should be Kurama’s and 1/6 should be Gyuki’s. Meaning half Kurama would’ve contributed ~10 Teratons while Gyuki would’ve contributed about ~2 Teratons. Aka half Kurama is 6-B with a charged Bijuudama and Gyuki is Low 6-B.

SECOND
So I made this size comparison calc. Bijuu are beasts of pure chakra, they’re chakra spirits. So my thought is, if Kurama getting split into his yin and Yang halves decreased his size 32x, his chakra would decrease 32x, aka be 32x weaker. I’m kinda unsure about this one and want some thoughts. Basically full Kurama would be 32x stronger than half Kurama if this is legit.

Following.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Following ^^

 

[Godernet]

So I have a few very simple and minor Kurama scaling changes and proposals, curious on y’all’s thoughts.

FIRST
So we have a ~12 Teraton calc for a charged Bijuudama that we split evenly between Kurama and Gyuki. However, Gyuki by feats is like Bijuu level, meanwhile half Kurama is 5x Bijuu level. So 5/6 of the calc should be Kurama’s and 1/6 should be Gyuki’s. Meaning half Kurama would’ve contributed ~10 Teratons while Gyuki would’ve contributed about ~2 Teratons. Aka half Kurama is 6-B with a charged Bijuudama and Gyuki is Low 6-B.

Agreed. Always thought it was weird to value Kurama and Gyuki the same when Gyuki seems to have trouble fighting the bijuu we saw individually and Half Kurama blatantly overpowers them.

SECOND
So I made this size comparison calc. Bijuu are beasts of pure chakra, they’re chakra spirits. So my thought is, if Kurama getting split into his yin and Yang halves decreased his size 32x, his chakra would decrease 32x, aka be 32x weaker. I’m kinda unsure about this one and want some thoughts. Basically full Kurama would be 32x stronger than half Kurama if this is legit.

Makes sense since Kurama is literally a giant mass of chakra

Also Bijuu chakra seems to get massively affected when merged or split from other Bijuu chakras. The Ten tails goes from being damaged by BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke to being damn near Hagaromo lvl with just half of Kurama and All of Gyuki. Or Sasuke combining the Bijuu into a Susanoo Arrow that almost killed an Amped Six Path Naruto.

I don't think Minato and Naruto linking during the war to share chakra contradicts this either since they were just sharing chakra to form jutsu not merging back into one being. What Minato and Naruto did was no different then when Kurama and Gyuki pooled power to make that big-ass Bijuu bomb.

Also Hashirama and Madara, the only two with direct scaling to full Kurama don't contradict this either since they were both weaker as Edo and for other reasons that aren't relevant to this thread.

I agree.

 

[karzen]

following.

 

[Damage3245]

So we have a ~12 Teraton calc for a charged Bijuudama that we split evenly between Kurama and Gyuki. However, Gyuki by feats is like Bijuu level, meanwhile half Kurama is 5x Bijuu level. So 5/6 of the calc should be Kurama’s and 1/6 should be Gyuki’s. Meaning half Kurama would’ve contributed ~10 Teratons while Gyuki would’ve contributed about ~2 Teratons. Aka half Kurama is 6-B with a charged Bijuudama and Gyuki is Low 6-B.

I don't think we can divide attacks to this extent; that gets a too speculative with the 5/6 and 1/6 assumptions behind it.

So I made this size comparison calc. Bijuu are beasts of pure chakra, they’re chakra spirits. So my thought is, if Kurama getting split into his yin and Yang halves decreased his size 32x, his chakra would decrease 32x, aka be 32x weaker. I’m kinda unsure about this one and want some thoughts. Basically full Kurama would be 32x stronger than half Kurama if this is legit.

Can't ageee with this one. There isn't enough support for half of Kurama to be 1/32 of Kurama's power.

 

[Deceived3596]

I don't think we can divide attacks to this extent; that gets a too speculative with the 5/6 and 1/6 assumptions behind it.

How exactly is it too "speculative"? regarding the 5/6 claim that's directly shown within the series, there's nothing speculative behind claiming Half Kurama's Bijuubombs > 5 other Bijuubombs. And the 1/6 number also isn't speculative, it's shown in the series that Gyuki, as an individual Bijuu is relative to slightly superior to other Bijuu.

Nothing about this claim is "speculative", there's hard evidence within the series which supports these assertions. If we have zero reason to assume otherwise then i don't see why we wouldn't assume this to be true given the evidence.

Can't ageee with this one. There isn't enough support for half of Kurama to be 1/32 of Kurama's power.

What would you consider as "enough support" exactly? as that's an incredibly vague statement without further context, in my opinion the fact Bijuu are directly stated multiple times to be beings of pure chakra, and that Bijuu are shown to increase/decrease in size depending on how much chakra they have is enough support to assume that half Kurama is 1/32's of Kurama's fullpower.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don't think we can divide attacks to this extent; that gets a too speculative with the 5/6 and 1/6 assumptions behind it.

I mean we currently accept that half Kurama = 5 Bijuu and Gyuki = 1 Bijuu tho right? Saying they both contributed equally contradicts Kurama being the far superior I feel.

Can't ageee with this one. There isn't enough support for half of Kurama to be 1/32 of Kurama's power.

I’m kinda neutral on the size point but I wanna see what more people say. I’m also unsure if it breaks our multiplier rules tbh.

 

[Damage3245]

I’m kinda neutral on the size point but I wanna see what more people say.

I can see where you're coming from with the size point but it seems a bit cherry-picked. You're comparing a length value of half-Kurama to full-Kurama, but why is that the proportional bit for power? The volume difference between them would be a lot larger than their lengths, but that isn't taken into account.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

but why is that the proportional bit for power? The volume difference between them would be a lot larger than their lengths, but that isn't taken into account.

I calc the volume difference, by doing a ratio of lengths cubed. The length difference is like 3.stuff, and then cubed the volume difference is 32x. Also, my speculation is that since it’s pure chakra the size of the Bijuu would correlate to power, but again I’m not really 100% on that so if there’s contradictory evidence by all means I’ll drop it. I’m less proposing the second point and more asking other peoples thoughts based on the series portrayal.

 

[Damage3245]

I calc the volume difference, by doing a ratio of lengths cubed. The length difference is like 3.stuff, and then cubed the volume difference is 32x. Also, my speculation is that since it’s pure chakra the size of the Bijuu would correlate to power, but again I’m not really 100% on that so if there’s contradictory evidence by all means I’ll drop it. I’m less proposing the second point and more asking other peoples thoughts based on the series portrayal.

Okay, I see the volume difference now, but I don't think there's anything specifically tying the volume difference to a proportional power difference.

Minato does say he is only going to seal half of Nine-Tails too. There is no reason to think that even more than half was sealed.

 

[Hasty12345]

I agree with Kurama being 5 times that of Gyuuki, it never made sense to me we consider them equal in that instance when they clearly aren't anywhere else.

As for the 32x thing, seems like a leap, so I'm leaning towards disagree, but I can be convinced.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Okay, I see the volume difference now, but I don't think there's anything specifically tying the volume difference to a proportional power difference.

Minato does say he is only going to seal half of Nine-Tails too. There is no reason to think that even more than half was sealed.

Yeah I can see that, I’m also unsure of how this falls into our multiplier rules either.

The only point I feel strongly for is the first point with Kurama and Gyuki.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I can understand both Damage and Arc's POV but i dont think it's too out there either.

Put me at a soft agree.

 

[Dattebayo]

Agree

 

[KingTempest]

So I have a few very simple and minor Kurama scaling changes and proposals, curious on y’all’s thoughts.

FIRST
So we have a ~12 Teraton calc for a charged Bijuudama that we split evenly between Kurama and Gyuki. However, Gyuki by feats is like Bijuu level, meanwhile half Kurama is 5x Bijuu level. So 5/6 of the calc should be Kurama’s and 1/6 should be Gyuki’s. Meaning half Kurama would’ve contributed ~10 Teratons while Gyuki would’ve contributed about ~2 Teratons. Aka half Kurama is 6-B with a charged Bijuudama and Gyuki is Low 6-B.

No

Don't measure the capacity of their bijuudamas by the capacity of their physicals

The bijuudama they launched was much more charged up than the individual tiny head sized bijuudamas

If 2 people do a technique we split it evenly, we don't try to measure their yield based off of other feats

Same reason why we split the destruction of the Chibaku Tensei evenly

At most you could just give Gyuki an at most rating and Kurama an at least rating for half of the yield

SECOND
So I made this size comparison calc. Bijuu are beasts of pure chakra, they’re chakra spirits. So my thought is, if Kurama getting split into his yin and Yang halves decreased his size 32x, his chakra would decrease 32x, aka be 32x weaker. I’m kinda unsure about this one and want some thoughts. Basically full Kurama would be 32x stronger than half Kurama if this is legit.

A specific amount of chakra more ≠ A specific amount of chakra stronger, same with vice versa

Only thing different would be the storage of chakra and the output, but you can't assume that it outputs 32x the amount of chakra. That's a whole other argument in itself

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

KT comin' in with an Eggplant for Arc

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I agree with Gyuki thing but not so much the second argument.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No

Don't measure the capacity of their bijuudamas by the capacity of their physicals

The bijuudama they launched was much more charged up than the individual tiny head sized bijuudamas

If 2 people do a technique we split it evenly, we don't try to measure their yield based off of other feats

Same reason why we split the destruction of the Chibaku Tensei evenly

At most you could just give Gyuki an at most rating and Kurama an at least rating for half of the yield

A specific amount of chakra more ≠ A specific amount of chakra stronger, same with vice versa

Only thing different would be the storage of chakra and the output, but you can't assume that it outputs 32x the amount of chakra. That's a whole other argument in itself

Sure to the SECOND, but for the FIRST don’t we accept that Bijuudama = physicals atm?

 

[KingTempest]

Sure to the SECOND, but for the FIRST don’t we accept that Bijuudama = physicals atm?

No, they weirdly backscale from them

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

No, they weirdly backscale from them

What the ****?

 

[KingTempest]

What the ****?

I didn't make it

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ima get confirmation from Shadow and if so then I’ll request this thread closed

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

No, they weirdly backscale from them

I'm fairly sure we scale them fully to their Bijuu damas. at least Kurama does anyway.

unless it's mentioned in a specific thread im missing

 

[Damage3245]

I'm fairly sure we scale them fully to their Bijuu damas. at least Kurama does anyway.

unless it's mentioned in a specific thread im missing

There may be scaling chains for why that is the case, but their physicals don't directly scale to their own Biju bombs.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

From the two tails profile:

AP: Island level+ (Her Biju Bomb is this powerful. Can harm Hachibi, who tanked his own Bijuudama)

Striking Strength: Island level+ (Being made of pure chakra, she should be able to physically produce the same energy as her Bijuudama)

Durability: Island level+ (Comparable to Hachibi who tanked his own Bijuudama)

So I think we just fully scale their physicals to the bijuudama, the chain seems to be Bijuudama = Gyuki durability = Bijuu physicals

 

[Damage3245]

Right, a lot of the profiles are in need of revision tbh. I would remove that.

Anyway, hope that answers everything.

 

[Godernet]

Didn't Kurama and Gyuki also tank blasts from the Juub?, which should be stronger than the combined Bijuu bomb they produced.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Well I don’t mind putting the FIRST part of this CRT on hold if Bijuu physicals vs Bijuudama is going to be addressed soon, and I’ll concede on the SECOND part since I don’t feel strongly about it.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I'm fairly sure we scale them fully to their Bijuu damas. at least Kurama does anyway.

unless it's mentioned in a specific thread im missing

https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-part-ii-revisions-multipliers-calculations.108405

IIRC it was TBB Explosion > Unexploded TBB's KE > Bijuu Physicals > Bijuu Durability

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-part-ii-revisions-multipliers-calculations.108405

IIRC it was TBB Explosion > Unexploded TBB's KE > Bijuu Physicals > Bijuu Durability

How do we reconcile Gyuki tanking his own exploding Bijuudama

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

How do we reconcile Gyuki tanking his own exploding Bijuudama

He downscales as the scaling chain suggests as I recall

 

[Damage3245]

How do we reconcile Gyuki tanking his own exploding Bijuudama

It was a quickly formed Bijuudama with a quite small explosion radius (compared to some other Bijuudama's we've seen).

So it's just not necessarily as strong as some of the other Bijuudama's that have been calced.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It was a quickly formed Bijuudama with a quite small explosion radius (compared to some other Bijuudama's we've seen).

Hmmmmm that could be fair, you got a chapter number or a scan?

 

[Damage3245]

Hmmmmm that could be fair, you got a chapter number or a scan?

Chapter 611.

 

[ssgengar]

Didn’t a charged bijuu dama from gyuki get tanked by suigetsu lol

It makes perfect sense that 5/6 be used for kurama

 

[KingTempest]

Didn’t a charged bijuu dama from gyuki get tanked by suigetsu lol

No

It makes perfect sense that 5/6 be used for kurama

Perfect sense ≠ following the rules

 

[ssgengar]

No

Well it couldn’t kill him and it was point blank

Perfect sense ≠ following the rules

This is really just me saying I agree with the 1st part

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Didn’t a charged bijuu dama from gyuki get tanked by suigetsu lol

his water form allows him to avoid conventional damage (mostly)

 

[ssgengar]

his water form allows him to avoid conventional damage (mostly)

Yeah but I thought that’s physical damage not energy attacks let alone energy bombs, databook also specifies physical attacks

not saying his water form did nothing, but js I think not being able to kill him that close supports kurama being 5/6 of the calc