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Novel Kars vs Ashen One - Stillwinston's curiosity.

He could probably figure out what works or doesn't work by just looking at him. Time stop just makes it easy to do so with zero threat.
 
Kars actually lead with time stop in all instances after he got it. It's just that he got it at the end of the novel so we don't if it's truly his go to. But he'd likely use it the moment he gets attacked though, seems like a pretty standard assumption.
 
Well it's either an incon or a stomp for Kars. Because either Kars's win cons work and he wins and the Ashen One doesn't have a way to put him down or to incon him, due to D4CU and BtD. Or none of them work and it's an incon because either of them can't do anything to the other.
 
Kars would likely just copy the ashens powers if his powers don't work for some reason to incap or defeat.
 
Even if we assume he can copy everything he has, how does that give him a wincon to incap or defeat?

And he can't copy his AP due to NLF of jumping 2 tiers.
 
Ogbunabali said:
Even if we assume he can copy everything he has, how does that give him a wincon to incap or defeat?

And he can't copy his AP due to NLF of jumping 2 tiers.
Because the Ashen one sure ain't resisting his entire moveset.
Kars could casually copy universal stands and a bound that is multi-continental. While he can't reasonably jump tiers physically he does have feats of copying powers way above his own tier and even the ashen ones.
 
Ok. Name one skill the Ashen One has that would give Kars the win if he copied it.

And no. He hasn't actually copied anything that's higher AP than him. Excluding MiHUR which does that thing via a side effect and not through an actual AP.
 
His own magic? He ain't immune to it dude.

D4C in the novel creates the parallel universe in question. Dune can go up to at least multi-continental. Bam two other then MIH.
 
Ok. Tell me how does he win with it.

It doesn't. It's just speculation by the japanese Jorge. Scans for this? And I already explained MiHUR.
 
By killing him with it? As said he doesn't resist his own powers. Pretty sure Ashen one has some magic negation spells too so that'd work wonders.

It's on the profile and alternate Kars confirms the theory confirming that the world's d4c have access to are fake and aren't true world's (he also gets mad when funny told him he and thus world aren't truly real and Kars believes him and Kars gas the capacity to understand d4c so he would know if it's a lie or not), and I trust Kars judgement all things considered. By manipulating all the sand on Mars at once? That's multi-continental. Yeah so? It's still low 2-C gravity manipulation?
 
Even if that works, he resurrects. Now what? And don't make claims about something that you don't know about.

Show scans, because I'm pretty sure this never happens. Again, scans. That's hax, not AP. The AP is a chain reaction from the hax.
 
Im fairly certain BtD would incon since evertime Ashen resurrects he'll just die again and will continue for what im assuming is the rest of time since he'll forever be fated to die.
 
He kills him again. You don't need to perma kill to win via sba. Also what? Ashen one has a spell that stops magic from working. It's voice of silence or something, it's been a long while since I played ds3 so I forget the name.

Well good for you I guess, it's on the profile and it's accepted, here's the quote though. Don't know how you could forget why Kars was mad in the first place.

""We told him this was but a parallel world, and he and everything in it weren't real," Funny said. "I've fought that living nightmare any number of times in different parallel worlds. Looking for a way to seal him or send him away. Allowing something as fearsome as that man to live free is always a threat," said the President of the 'free' country. Behind us came a loud crack crack boom of lightning striking and I looked back to see Cars standing there, his hair in a single braid, his arm through the chest of this world's 'Funny'. His eyes met mine. "I've never once defeated him," Funny said. "But I've done my best to learn from him. And I'll put that to use and beat him in the battle to come." Cars tossed 'Funny' aside, and Dirty Whatever floated away, swooping back towards us. Returning to its original owner. But Cars was flying after it...! "So you're the one who made this world? I did not give you permission, and I will not allow it!" he yelled, clouds billowing up behind him. He was so terrifying I couldn't take my eyes off him."

There you go. And if you mean the multi-continental shit, why do you think dune has a varies ap and planetary range? It could manipulate all the sand on Mars at once, surely you don't need a statement for that too. It's still gravity manipulation on a universal scale, it's the universal reset that's the chain reaction, the gravity manip is something it does itself.
 
Yeah, that's what I said.

It's either an incon because Ashen One can't do anything to bypass BtD and D4CU, if Kars's wincons don't work. Or a stomp because do work and Ashen One doesn't have a win con.
 
Well the first bomb he can resurrect from and be good but BtD makes him fated to die so even if he resurrects he'll just die again and again.
 
Chariot190 said:
So what? He needs to be dead for a day if you want it to count as a win con. Silence doesn't stop his resurrection.

It actually isn't accepted. It probably just forgot to remove it from the P&A section.

Characters don't get feats they haven't preformed here.

Again, hax != AP.

And all of this is irrelevant, as AP is useless in this fight. None of this gives Kars the win.
 
Ive seen threads where if one sde can consistently kill the opposition, it's still a win because the opponent cant do anything to stop it even if it's not a permadeath.

It's on the profile and the only reason why it ws being debated is because of what Joji said, that thread leaves out one key point though, Kars confirms it, or did you not read the quote abve where Kars literally says Funny created this world and he's pissed at him for doing so. You could make a CRT to get it off the profile but doing so would be pointless when Kars outright says yeah, he made this universe.

I havent said anything Kars hasnt done though? What are you going on about? Actually youre being extremely vague, I want you to tell me exacty what feat ive said kars doesnt have.

Youre right, which is why I'm not including MIH's reset but universal ceation, multi-continental sand and universal gravity mani is fair game though.

Nobody was arguing for AP except you though, I said Kars could copy his powers, not his stats.
 
If it's passive, yes.

There was already a thread about it. That's why the Low 2-C rating was removed in the first place.

That he controlled all the sands of Mars at the same time.

Hax != AP. I don't know why I need to keep repeating this.

I didn't actually. And you're the one that wants to drag this out for some reason.
 
why are we suddendly acting like Kars' BTD is a constant kill when in fact, it kills, rewinds time and then kills again and then ends unless another target triggers BTD
 
I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this was already explained, but the Limited Time Manip comes from the Rapair spell. It repairs tools by rewinding time for it.

Now can someone explain to me Kars' "wincons"? It's very hard to actually kill off Ashen One.
 
No ive seen cases where if a character can just beat the other character to death nonstop and the opponent cant stop it or defend it's essentially a win because the opponent is powerless to prevent it.

I just read the thread you linked, the reasoning was that the only thing for it is Joji speculating, it's wrong, the OP probably wasnt aware that Kars confirms it, which I posted above. And seeing as it's on the profile and seeing as the reason why it should of been taken off is actually false nothing actually needs to happen regarding it. Unless you wanna make another CRT to get it taken off but that seems dishonest when I just posted an exerpt from the novel proving my previous claim.

Goyathlay Soundma. Also it's even mentioned on Kars profile. It's literally why Dune's AP is varies with planetary range because it can vary between below average human up to planetary. So you wanna stop lying or...?

If kars can copy universal abilities he can copy abilities lesser then that, hax can have a potency attributed to it, that's actually just a general thing on the wiki, most notably brought up with mind hax. Unless you wanna tell me universal creation aint universal? In which case I guess all those who have feats like that dont count, sorry Majora. I think the issue here is that you seem to think powers cant have potency or scale.

Oh? Then why are you bringing up AP? Nobody did but you. Press ctrl+F, type in AP, first mention of ap was by you, nobody said Kars could copy ap, so go back and actually read what you're debating before making such claims.
 
Then they are wrong. That's not how it works.

As I said, the CRT was made that removed the Low 2-C rating for that specific thing, the P&A was just forgotten. So if you want it you need to make a CRT.

>lying

Lied about what? For asking you to provide scans? Yeah, good lie.

Actually "hax potency" doesn't work like that. "2-A mindhax" or whatever doesn't actually mean anything, the "hax" doesn't have 2-A "potency" it just means that it can affect infinite inhabitants across infinite universes.

You're the one that said he can copy his stuff and defeat them with them. And I said even if he copies them Ashen One doesn't have anything that Kars can use to put him down. And that if you happened to refer to AP, he can't do it because of NLF. Which then you proceeded to turn the conversation into whatever this convoluted mess is.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this was already explained, but the Limited Time Manip comes from the Rapair spell. It repairs tools by rewinding time for it.
Now can someone explain to me Kars' "wincons"? It's very hard to actually kill off Ashen One.
Whitesnake's discs. BFR to an alternate universe out of infinite, this bfr can be layered. Absorbtion, incap via body control. Time travel. KQ's bombs, mind and soul steal, transmutation (that doesnt actually kill so no res from that although he can survive without a soul so that's pointless), transmutation of the mind, etc

Also worse case scenario, MIH resetting the universe. Kars also has time stop so he's never getting touched and can summon duplicates of himself with no limit.
 
Well, bfr doesn't work as homeward bones and the bonfire sword fragment both return Ashen to the last bonfire rested at which would be near to whatever location the fight is happening at. Absorbtion of what? Anything that destroys Ashen's body will just activate his undead curse and Rez him. Incap via body control how exactly? Just making him do a funny dance for 24 hours? Time Travel is also countered by homeward bones. What do KQ bombs do? If it's body or soul destruction then they both fail to do anything. The mind manip resistance is kinda minor iirc.
 
>Then they are wrong. That's not how it works.

idk dude checks out to me.

>As I said, the CRT was made that removed the Low 2-C rating for that specific thing, the P&A was just forgotten. So if you want it you need to make a CRT.

Well I still see it on there and unless we're judt gonna ignore the fact the CRT in question was wrong that's actually extremely dishonest.

>Lied about what? For asking you to provide scans? Yeah, good lie.

There's the profiles, have fun, theres scans on the profile, actually read the profiles will you? Its what theyre there for, I'm not going to supply scans for something the profile provides for you.

>Actually "hax potency" doesn't work like that. "2-A mindhax" or whatever doesn't actually mean anything, the "hax" doesn't have 2-A "potency" it just means that it can affect infinite inhabitants across infinite universes.

Im referring to things like flame manipulation, spactial manipulation, and shut like that etc. If someone has 5-B fire manipulation or spatial manip that's free game, why? Because whether you like it or not, Kars has copied a stand that makes universes regardless of your denial of which it's on the profile and he also copied MIH which has universal gravity manipulation that is performed directly by it. Nothing the ashen one is even remotely close to universal creation or controlling gravity on a universal scale.

>You're the one that said he can copy his stuff and defeat them with them. And I said even if he copies them Ashen One doesn't have anything that Kars can use to put him down. And that if you happened to refer to AP, he can't do it because of NLF. Which then you proceeded to turn the conversation into whatever this convoluted mess is.

I did say that and no but the ashen one has things that are very effective at incapping himself or rendering him not a huge threat. Unfortunately you denied the fact that Kars never copied an ability with AP higher then his own which is a blatant lie and shows that you havent actually read the novel, as such making the claim that he never did, as fact, when youre straight up wrong us a fault on your end. Kars can copy abilities that are universal in nature and he copied a planetary ability that directly correlates to ap. I never said anything that wasnt true, it's you that made the false claim.
 
Chariot190 said:
Still going in circles I see. And lets cut this conversation short, as there is no need to continuously clog the thread with nothingness.

Doesn't matter what "checks out for you" that's not how it works.

There, it's removed. Now go make a CRT if you want.

The profile doesn't have a scan linked for it, it's just mentioned in the range section. I have read the book myself, and you still haven't provided a scan.

Again, for the hundredth time, hax != AP.

And I'll say the same thing I said before. Point to one ability the Ashen One has that Kars can use. I never denied, I asked for proof that you still haven't show, and even if you did you show a scan of the sands of Mars you need a calc for it. He has never copied that.
 
>Well, bfr doesn't work as homeward bones and the bonfire sword fragment both return Ashen to the last bonfire rested at which would be near to whatever location the fight is happening at.

Dude Kars' BFR is throwing someone into a different universe, out of infinite, and he can layer universes on top that making returning even harder, I dont think either of those items have feats showing multi-universal travel and even then returning to the specific universe out of infinite is a tad sus.

>Absorbtion of what? Anything that destroys Ashen's body will just activate his undead curse and Rez him.

Fair enough. Although that aint exactly true, it'd only activate if he dies, destruction of body parts wont instantly activate it. If kars just takes his limbs and heals over the wounds that aint gonna activate anything.

>Incap via body control how exactly? Just making him do a funny dance for 24 hours?

Sure why not. Or just making him unable to control his body and stand there unable to do anything.

>Time Travel is also countered by homeward bones.

How is kars time traveling to the past and offing him there before he gets the undead curse countered by homeward bones?

>What do KQ bombs do? If it's body or soul destruction then they both fail to do anything.

Ok.

>The mind manip resistance is kinda minor iirc.

Wouldnt really matter, Kars' mind manip is super unconventional, even if he had good resistance I doubt it would help, not because Kars has better mind hax, far from it, but because of how he does it. Kars can transmute the mind itself and turn it into CD discs (he can also straight up just remove the mind making someone a vegetable). First you'd have to be able to resist your mind being transmutated, which is obscure in and of itself but kars can also implant commands and control others via inserting discs into them. Basically think of someone as a pc and kars just puts in a disc that uploads new programming, except that aint even an analogy, that's basically what it does. He can also read minds this way, he likes to do this so he'd know everything the ashen one is capable of from the get go if he doesnt already get a decent idea via his bullshit understanding.
 
I just remembered what his mind resistance comes from. It's from not going hollow which is basically his mind deteriorating into nothing so it's actually not half bad.
 
>Doesn't matter what "checks out for you" that's not how it works.

Checks out for others too apparently, just not you.

>There, it's removed. Now go make a CRT if you want.

Oh? By chance did you happen to leave out important information regarding it? Lying to admins and being dishonest to prove a point? I expected better from you.

>The profile doesn't have a scan linked for it, it's just mentioned in the range section. I have read the book myself, and you still haven't provided a scan.

I linked goyathlay, hot damn dude pay attention. And I'm having doubts seeing as you've asked me to prove two things in the book so far that were both at key points in the book, did you not pay attention when reading?

>Again, for the hundredth time, hax != AP.

Yeah, I'm wondering why you keep saying it actually. Depends on the hax in question, you dont seem to understand that.

>And I'll say the same thing I said before. Point to one ability the Ashen One has that Kars can use. I never denied, I asked for proof that you still haven't show, and even if you did you show a scan of the sands of Mars you need a calc for it. He has never copied that.

Probably his entire selection of spells. Nothing there seems unrealistic. I linked you a profile with a scan on it, make an effort to actually read.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
I just remembered what his mind resistance comes from. It's from not going hollow which is basically his mind deteriorating into nothing so it's actually not half bad.
That wont prevent anything whitesnake does or mind control (although that is actually neat). And Whitesnake is like Kars' favorite thing to use. Whitesnake seems like a pretty solid wincon, especially with time stop.
 
It checks out of no one because that's against the rules.

I just posted the thread where it was removed.

Your link was wrong, you seem to have fixed it.

And this one doesn't count.

Yes, point to a single one if there are so many. A link to a profile that was wrong which you fixed in an edit later.
 
Ashen One's time manip comes from the Miracle, Repair, which states that light is literally time, and repairing your weapon is rewinding the time on it.

Also Kars should take this easily, his adaptation and time stop should allow him to easily incapacitate Ashen One with ease.
 
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