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JORGE JOESTAR REVISIONS: Downgrades and Additions

LephyrTheRevanchist

Head-bobbing magi friend
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Finally I could organize this thing. Was hoping on doing it in my PC but...

Anyway, let's go straight to it:

STARTING DOWNGRADE PORTION----
Kars and Dio's Low 2-C rating

It was given based on Kars surviving Made in Heaven's speeding up the universe until it exploded 36 times. The problem is that not once in the novel are we given an explanation on how the universe resets.

One could assume that a Big Crunch occurred, which, as stated by @Assaltwaffle in this thread, it's the only death of the universe that could allow it to remake itself. The problem comes with how Made in Heaven itself works in the novel.

Explanation about the Big Crunch from Wikipedia: "Recent experimental evidence suggests that the expansion of the universe is not being slowed down by gravity but rather accelerating. However, since the nature of the dark energy that is postulated to drive the acceleration is unknown, a big crunch is still possible, although not observationally supported as of today."

"The idea behind the theory was originally, that the expansion of the universe was linked to the energy released in the Big Bang, therefore the outward speed of the matter would decrease over time due to gravity (mutual attraction). This would act as ballast and would eventually lead to a halt of the expansion. As matter attracts and there is no matter beyond the maximum expansion point, eventually all matter would begin to travel inwards again, accelerating as time passes."

Made in Heaven, as explained by Jorge Joestar here works by controlling Gravity to bend (and accelerate) Space-Time. Thus, seeing as a Big Crunch occurres by Gravity slowing down the expansion of the universe (MiH doing the literal opposite), then it can't be resetting the universe through that.

Besides that, the novel doesn't mention anything else about MiH's universal reset, which is only described as "the universe dying" and "remaking itself".

All scans that features Made i Heave i the novel here.

Not only that, but MiH is used to Time Travel in the novel, as one of the major plot points in JORGE JOESTAR is that the multiverse is a Spiral Staircase, and a closed system of 36 different iterations, MiH one of the only way to travel through it all... Which gives me a pretty good segway into the next point that gave Kars and Dio Low 2-C: the Cube House.

At one point in the novel, Kars crashes through what is described as a tesseract which has it's own space-time and was argued to have it's own universe within. This is The Cube house. Problem with this is quite simple. The Cube House is not a literal tesseract. It is simply eight rooms linked through space. It's fuction is to accelerate whoever falls into it through space-time so it can Time Travel. (The second of the only three ways to travel through the multiverse's Spiral Staircase)

As you can see, it's not universal in size, and Kars crashing through it should be treated as hax.

So, Kars (and Dio, since he scales) should be downgraded back to it's accepted calc of Country Level.

Next:

Kars resist Menger Sponge effect and OP time hax

No, he does not. And in that second scene you have Dio resisting his time stop (he talked while Time was stopped). Which brings me to one of the worst displays of wank...

Golden Experience Requiem and Infinite Speed

Here's the whole scene betwee Dio and GER.

Notice how: 1. Giorno wasn't even trying to fight 2. It is not implied that GER attempted to attack 3. It is not stated that GER was doing anything other than appearing 4. Dio just grabbed him with The World

Dio did not blitzed him, nor GER did a thing.

- "But GER is passive in the manga" Not i the novel. MiH sped up time right in front of him, which once again doesn't mention him doing any willpower stuff. He just punched Pucci and BFR him.

Plus, Kars never encountered GER. In conclusion, Dio didn't time stopped him, nor blitzed him, nor should have any resistance to it. As such, Kars doesn't have any of that either. (Don't know why we would scale resistances, but ok)

Let's continue:

Kars having a mind for every organism on Earth

LephyrTheRevanchist said:
"Mind Manipulation Resistance stems from the fact Whitesnake has the power to remove memory (mind) discs. At one point within the story Pucci attacks Kars and removes his memory disc, yet opposed to a single disc falling out and Kars being knocked out due to his mind being removed, Pucci is met with a waterfall of mind discs opposed to the one he should have, Kars is uneffected by this. The implications wthn this scene imply that Kars has numerous mind discs. Potentially one for each species on earth. Also scaling from Joji Joestar."

There is also this thing that I don't agree with Kars profile. While yes, the waterfall of mind discs is correct, that part about having "one for each species on earth"... Is simply not true. The only thing that implies this is that, while he was slamming stands discs into DIO, he asked DIO if he could withstand "the limit of the world". Not only is this vague, but he says this while referring to stand discs, not mind. And don't even get me started on scaling abilities from other characters.
Next:

D4C creates universes

Only comes from Joji speculating it. It shouldn't be used.

Kars can survive as a dissembodied soul

He never does this. In fact, he states quite the opposite. The only character that shows this ability is George Joestar II.

Whitesnake Ultimate

Besides Das Boots, the only stand that scales to Kars and Dio physically.

TL;DR:

  • Get rid of resistance to willpower manipulation and acausality from DIO's and Kars' profile
  • Get rid of infinite speed
  • Both downgraded to 6-B
  • Getting rid of Kars' resistance to menger sponge
  • Kars' disembodied soul thing would have to go, too.
  • Upgrade White Snake key to 6-B
  • Get rid of the note in Kars' profile that states he has a mind for everyone on Earth (though the resistance to mindhax can be kept)
  • Getting rid of Low 2-C D4C
END OF THE DOWNGRADE PORTION----
-

Oh, sweet sweet upgrades. Such a shame that there are so little with Jorge Joestar.

This additions only involve good ol' Joji.

  • He should have limited time manipulation.
  • Joji should also be included a key with Whitesnake with a note in his profile that states he can only use one stand per battle and the op should specify which one he is using. That said... Joji didn't used White Snake in the story, so I don't know if it should scale to the original one or what.
(This was done in my cellphone, so forgive any spelling errors)
 
I agree.

And Reinhard is right, it's still a pretty above average 6-B. It can have fair fights with Helios and Medaka.
 
Sir Ovens said:
Kars U N D E R S T A N D S All-Fiction </div>
I could say that Kuma Erase U N D E R S T A N D but postpone this discussion when the match will take place
 
Walking Strawman said:
If Jman wants to contest anything, now is his last chance
He said last time that he didn't want to take part of the (previous) thread anymore.
 
4 mods and a bunch of other people said yes. Should this be carried out?
 
He said last time that he didn't want to take part of the (previous) thread anymore.

He said "fine" to hopping in this time.
 
Just noticed; Kars has a resistance to Soul Destruction on his profile with a justification that links to Dio's feat of tanking it. That should be removed as well.
 
Gargoyle One said:
Inb4 ovens puts Kars against Star Wars agai
Hey now, Anakin Skywalker looks like a good way to start off Kars vs Star Wars.

Either him or Obi Wan.

OvO
 
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