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(Noisy Tenant) Revisions

EmperorRorepmeThree

EmperorRorepmeThree

5,405
1,052
Fern's and all the Hospital inhabitants Type 8 should be clarified to being reliant on the concept of Medicine.

Dr Phage is the concept of a Doctor according to Marcy who permanates throughout every Zone and Layer therefore he should be at least Multiversal+ due to the sheer size of the concept he embodies. He should also have speed changed to Omnipresent throughout those Zones and Layers since he's the literal concept of a Doctor.

The Commentators should gain Nonexistent Physiology (Type 2) and an increase in range to at least Multiversal+.

Everyone who can branchinate should get Immeasurable speed.

Explanations: According to Marcy, the concept of Medicine which everyone is reliant on including Fern. The Commentators or the "Buzzers" have these characteristics.

Marcy reference: https://bogleech.com/awfulhospital/934.html

"They themselves are mindless, non-matter entities of no solid concept, permeating all zones and layers simultaneously. The information that they ferry to you is not always accurate or clear, and may originate from virtually any beings of any zone. The medium by which these beings may be perceiving you and your actions varies similarly."

She also mentions that any being can navigate through voids devoid of concepts which is at least immeasurable.

There's also a clear Azathoth reference

Zonehopper reference: https://bogleech.com/awfulhospital/zg.html

We know that Zones contain layers. Layers are how each being perceives reality. According to the Zonehopper. A Zone can be regarded as a game whilst the actual game can be regarded as having infinite servers. To put it another way think of existence. Every being perceives existence in different ways can have their own "server" their own subjective reality within a Zone. So I think based on this one Zone can be regarded as a Multiversal+ construct.

This means Dr Phage who is the concept of Doctor scales to this. The Commentators also scale to this range-wise.

More evidence for Dr Phage: https://bogleech.com/awfulhospital/003.html

For Doctor Phage there's also this: https://bogleech.com/awfulhospital/filephage.png

It seems that the main concepts within the verse are the amalgamation of all the "pseudo" and "quaint" versions of these concepts within other layers and zones for example. The whole story of Awful Hospital basically takes place in the concept of a hospital. It is simply called The Hospital and all the other versions of it are merely shadows and copies. Same with the concept of a Morgue which is titled The Morgue. This should be the case for Dr Phage too.

Evidence:

https://bogleech.com/awfulhospital/205.html

Just for simple terminology. The "Grey Zone" is basically our universe and it is merely one layer because the inhabitants do not perceive it to be anything else then what it already is.
 
I am very uncertain if "embodying the literal concept of a doctor" can automatically scale to a 2-A degree of raw power.
 
It's because he's an overarching concept present throughout all zones and layers. So the size of the concept scales to the zones and layers.
 
Oh maybe I worded it wrong. He doesn't embody it. He actually IS it. Maybe embody sounds like "avatar" seeing how it's presented in other verses.
 
That is what I meant. It still does not seem like something that automatically would scale to raw power though, unless it means cosmic mending in general, such as merging together the "cake" to a single entity again.
 
I'd disagree. It's because of sheer size. Concepts tend to be omnipresent throughout existence. Especially the most fundamental version of the concept.

The Parliament is trying to merge everything back into the Cake using Fern's Son.
 
Also I understand why you'd be skeptical. In the story he doesn't seem to be that powerful. Though that isn't ALL of Doctor Phage. That's 1 branchination of Doctor Phage. In otherwords a sort of avatar.
 
Well, limited omnipresence for a minor concept doesn't seem like a good qualification for being able to destroy or create infinite universes without further evidence.
 
Yes, the rest should hopefully mostly be fine. I would prefer a summary of the reasons for immeasurable speed though.
 
There's also another thing. Doctor Phage has the Zone where the concept of bowties comes from within him. I'll post evidence later.
 
Well, immeasurable speed means being able to move through time via speed alone.
 
Immeasurable speed is movement beyond linear time. Movement through time via raw speed is one example. The void doesn't have the concept of time so it's definitely beyond linear time to move in. Also time doesn't exist in the verse.
 
I don't mind infinite speed but I don't think it fits.

Timeless Voids and voids lacking the every concept would be different because here it's on a more fundamental level.

Time is something that doesn't exist. It's like a subjective concept which most people deny or do not perceive so it doesn't exist in the majority of layers. Only beings who perceive time to exist like Fern wouldn't get a speed upgrade (which is why the story is told in a linear fashion). Only her "branches" that go through the void would get a speed upgrade.
 
What exactly does "no solid concept" mean?
 
EmperorRorepme said:
In the context of the verse it means they aren't "tangible" in relation to the other conceptual beings or even existent.
Click to expand...
could some scans of proof of this be posted? Particularly of the existent part and where you got the idea that these beings are Immeasurable, since your link above suggests that these "conceptual voids" aren't as much of a conceptual void when the things in them show up. They bring with them the concepts.

What I know about the abyss? Interesting fact: an utter absence of concept is the one medium through which almost any life-form can most safely navigate, since there is no concept of anything that should impede them. There is not even the concept of suffocation, and therefore it is universally breathable. Unfortunately, this makes a conceptual void quite easy for bioforms to colonize, bringing with them concepts of hunger, life and death. The creatures of the abyss are like pockets of realness adrift in unrealness.
So they are very much explicitly real, and explicitly have concepts tied to them (though possibly not their own, this is a weird phrasing they give here). They just aren't made up of physical matter.
 
This means conceptual beings can exist within conceptual voids. In Awful Hospital, they don't "bring" concepts. They themselves are concepts. They don't embed the void itself with concepts. They just drift on the void "like pockets of realness adrift in unrealness"

I forgot to add a Zonehopper reference to substantiate the conceptual voids.

Here: https://bogleech.com/awfulhospital/zg7.html

Here describes the conceptual voids between layers.

"Black, but not actually "dark." With no visible sun or stars, I could still see my surroundings as clearly as broad daylight. It was as if the sky had simply failed to load, and in a sense, it had, or rather, what had failed to load was my perception of the sky and even of the universe beyond. As I'd come to understand, this wasn't even "empty space," since that in itself is a concept. The vacuum in which our stars and planets reside is, technically speaking, "a thing." Even blackness, too, is something. An idea. What I found myself gazing upon could be described superficially as blackness, yes, but in a way that's difficult to put to words, it was an absence of even that much. It was really, truly nothing."
 
And also what evidence do you want for the for nonexistence? Do you want scans explicitly stating that every being is conceptual? "Matter" isn't really a thing in the verse at least from most subjective perceptions of reality. Everything is an actual concept which is why I'm inferring from the description that they don't exist.
 
But navigating that empty void surely isn't a speed feat. It isn't a distance, it isn't time, and anyone who enters it who actually deals with such things brings with it time and space, thus rendering the feat moot. Even if we were to assume movement in a void where concepts like time and space did not exist was for some reason a speed feat, when no movement actually happens... why would it be immeasurable, a speed explicitly tied to time? One feels as though infinite is by and far the best one could possibly hope for. Even then, this comes with it the inherent weakness that any time this is in the presence of existent beings and places, concepts of time and space are then just pinned onto it. Once again rendering the feat moot.
 
Moving in a void devoid of the concepts of space and time is movement beyond linear time. Time explicitly doesn't exist from the subjective perception of most entities. I guess you could make this case for people like Fern who perceive time to be a thing. So she wouldn't gain anything from this except being able to survive in a void. I don't know where "bringing space" comes from they just take themselves, which is a concept, through the void. The author himself said space and time don't exist for most entities as well which is secondary evidence.

I don't see why this would be infinite. If it were infinite it would be of the most extreme proportions I have never seen an infinite speed feat of movement beyond the concepts of space and time. Characters from Warhammer 40,000 such as Magnus the Red has immeasurable speed for this very reason.

Where does the "adding concepts to the void" come from?
 
I'm guessing you're inferring "adding concepts to the void" from this

"Unfortunately, this makes a conceptual void quite easy for bioforms to colonize, bringing with them concepts of hunger, life and death."

This just means they, as the concepts, live within the void. Nothing so fancy as "projecting an entirety of a concept upon a void".

"The creatures of the abyss are like pockets of realness adrift in unrealness."

Here's what comes after, Marcy makes a clear distinction between the conceptual entities and the void, still calling it "unrealness" even after stating they "colonize". Which I feel lines up more with what I'm saying. Concepts wouldn't "drift" in void going off what you're saying. They would encompass it entirely.
 
Timeless voids are quite literally the default for infinite movement speed. Also... proof? "Moving in a void devoid of the concepts of space and time is movement beyond linear time."

Because our Timeless Void Standards explicitly state "It should be noted that characters who are able to move freely inside a timeless universe/void do not qualify for Immeasurable speed. This mistake comes from a misunderstanding of the Speed page... Moving inside a realm where time does not exist does not imply that a character can attack through time, bypass causality and hit their opponent in the past or in the future. Instead, it implies that the character is able to instantaneously travel anywhere they desire, which is what our standards for Infinite speed are for."

This doesn't really matter when this conceptual void ostensibly just takes on the concepts of the user, but still, where in the world does Immeasurable of all things come from?
 
I'll accept Infinite speed if you accept it too. To get this revision done.

It came from how "beyond the concepts of space and time" is presented on our forums rather then on the pages as something superior to merely timeless voids. Even other pages such as Magnus the Red and Angro have this reasoning which coincides with this. So basically timeless and devoid of the concept of time are two different things because the latter is on a more fundamental level. It's akin to the distinction of time manipulation and "conceptual" time manipulation.

I've already said why the void doesn't take on concepts of a navigator.
 
Right, but I suspect that their timeless voids do not suddenly stop becoming timeless if someone brings time with them. Hence my iffyness on the subject. And... you've argued that, yes, but the text does make pretty explicit mention of it. I'm not very much sold either that the creatures are being defined as unreal when it says the abyss itself is unreal and the creatures are very much real.

Outside of immeasurable I can definitely see your point, it is just not 100% solid, I think.
 
Ok fair enough. I think I know what you mean now as in because they bring in concepts with them they might bring a "personal" concept of time with them that allows them to move in the void, right?
 
@Mr. Bambu

Thank you for helping out.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Ok fair enough. I think I know what you mean now as in because they bring in concepts with them they might bring a "personal" concept of time with them that allows them to move in the void, right?
Click to expand...
Something along those lines, right.
 
I'm planning on rereading Awful Hospital at some point so I can help out then
 
@Promestein

Thank you for helping out to you as well.
 
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