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Marvel Comics Astral Form and Telepathy revisions

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Antvasima said:
I meant, can you explain your reasoning for all of the suggested additions in easy to understand manners, so other people can easily evaluate them?
Click to expand...
Subjective Reality, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, & Reality Warping: Consciousness is the blueprint by which all worlds and times were born, to control one's own consciousness is to control everything, is to become everything. Reality exists through consciousness, it is always changing, being shaped by our thoughts, the Weaver is a technology that creates realities coming from our consciousness, these realities created by consciousness are no less real than the primary realities from which they originate[18]. Mind and Soul are equals, within your soul/consciousness you find the realm of pure thought, which is boundless and formless, and which takes shape according to ourselves. There is no difference in the truthfulness of the worlds of the unconscious or the concrete reality, there are those who claim that all the universe is no more than a holographic projection[31]. Consciousness is shaping the universe, minds are expanding the universe itself and building physics and mathematics[32]. The Astral Plane is the realm of the mind as well as an abstract dimension shaped by the minds of those present.

Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2; Aspect Types 1, 2 [Type 3 Concept], & 3): The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.

Nonduality (Nature 1; Aspect 2): The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.

Limited Causality Manipulation/Limited Plot Manipulation* - Since the Astral Plane is the realm of narrative, to affect one's Astral Form is to affect their personal narrative.

Also, I would like to note that I have added a few other scans of note, like stuff confirming that the mind and soul are one and the same (meaning Astral Forms are both mind and soul), such as this scan: Furthermore, the human mind, soul, and "essential life-force" are stated to be one and the same.

And from what I can tell, the majority of staff also seem to be fine with the higher-dimensional telepathy based on the Astral Plane/Forms being higher-dimensional.
 
Last edited:
Eseseso said:
Subjective Reality, Information Manipulation (Type 2), & Reality Warping: Consciousness is the blueprint by which all worlds and times were born, to control one's own consciousness is to control everything, is to become everything. Reality exists through consciousness, it is always changing, being shaped by our thoughts, the Weaver is a technology that creates realities coming from our consciousness, these realities created by consciousness are no less real than the primary realities from which they originate[18]. Mind and Soul are equals, within your soul/consciousness you find the realm of pure thought, which is boundless and formless, and which takes shape according to ourselves. There is no difference in the truthfulness of the worlds of the unconscious or the concrete reality, there are those who claim that all the universe is no more than a holographic projection[31]. Consciousness is shaping the universe, minds are expanding the universe itself and building physics and mathematics[32]. The Astral Plane is the realm of the mind as well as an abstract dimension shaped by the minds of those present.

Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2; Aspect Types 1, 2 [Type 3 Concept], & 3): The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.

Limited Causality Manipulation/Limited Plot Manipulation* - Since the Astral Plane is the realm of narrative, to affect one's Astral Form is to affect their personal narrative.

Also, I would like to note that I have added a few other scans of note, like stuff confirming that the mind and soul are one and the same (meaning Astral Forms are both mind and soul), such as this scan: Furthermore, the human mind, soul, and "essential life-force" are stated to be one and the same.

And from what I can tell, the majority of staff also seem to be fine with the higher-dimensional telepathy based on the Astral Plane/Forms being higher-dimensional.
Click to expand...
@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeThree @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @Catzlaflame @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Vasco @LuciferX @Excel616 @Immortalgodd @LephyrTheRevanchist @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @Quantu @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein @LordTracer @ProfectusInfinity @M3X_2.0 @Maverick_Zero_X @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb

What do you think about this?
 
 
He is not very knowledgeable regarding this particular continuity as far as I recall though.
 
Antvasima said:
He is not very knowledgeable regarding this particular continuity as far as I recall though.
Click to expand...
True, though from what I can tell he has knowledge with much of the P&A in question, though let's see what the others think.

As of right now, there is one voting staff member for NEP and the limited stuff (Glass) and one against (Eficiente).
 
Yes, but Eficiente is knowledgeable regarding this particular continuity, and is usually skilled at analytical evaluation.
 
Actually, I think I was mistaken, Glassman only approved Normal Type 2 NEP for Astral Forms, not the aspects, but I don't know if NEP without any listed aspects is even allowed, so I'll see what other voting staff think.
 
Okay. Noted. 🙏
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
His input on other threads have resolved issues in regards to NEP though, so I trust him in that regard.
Click to expand...
Any thoughts on these P&A:
Eseseso said:
Subjective Reality, Information Manipulation (Type 2), & Reality Warping: Consciousness is the blueprint by which all worlds and times were born, to control one's own consciousness is to control everything, is to become everything. Reality exists through consciousness, it is always changing, being shaped by our thoughts, the Weaver is a technology that creates realities coming from our consciousness, these realities created by consciousness are no less real than the primary realities from which they originate[18]. Mind and Soul are equals, within your soul/consciousness you find the realm of pure thought, which is boundless and formless, and which takes shape according to ourselves. There is no difference in the truthfulness of the worlds of the unconscious or the concrete reality, there are those who claim that all the universe is no more than a holographic projection[31]. Consciousness is shaping the universe, minds are expanding the universe itself and building physics and mathematics[32]. The Astral Plane is the realm of the mind as well as an abstract dimension shaped by the minds of those present.

Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2; Aspect Types 1, 2 [Type 3 Concept], & 3): The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.

Limited Causality Manipulation/Limited Plot Manipulation* - Since the Astral Plane is the realm of narrative, to affect one's Astral Form is to affect their personal narrative.

Also, I would like to note that I have added a few other scans of note, like stuff confirming that the mind and soul are one and the same (meaning Astral Forms are both mind and soul), such as this scan: Furthermore, the human mind, soul, and "essential life-force" are stated to be one and the same.

And from what I can tell, the majority of staff also seem to be fine with the higher-dimensional telepathy based on the Astral Plane/Forms being higher-dimensional.
Click to expand...
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
If that's the only piece supporting plot shenanigans, I don't think it's enough. The rest seems agreeable to me.
Click to expand...
Actually, there is also something else which I noted for plot stuff in my sandbox:

Also, the above statement of the Astral Plane being the realm of "Idea, Thought, and Narrative" is supported by Xavier stating that, when he fought the Shadow King in a telepathic battle on the Astral Plane, the two telepaths fought each other using emotions, mathematics, sensations, and especially stories/narratives, creating "sagas and songs and ages and massacres".

Also, in the entry for Info Manipulation/Subjective Reality/Reality Warping, I added two more powers that I noticed based on the justification entry (Law Manip and Physics Manip) if you could just glance at that.

Thank you very much for your help, btw.
 
Eseseso said:
Actually, there is also something else which I noted for plot stuff in my sandbox:

Also, the above statement of the Astral Plane being the realm of "Idea, Thought, and Narrative" is supported by Xavier stating that, when he fought the Shadow King in a telepathic battle on the Astral Plane, the two telepaths fought each other using emotions, mathematics, sensations, and especially stories/narratives, creating "sagas and songs and ages and massacres".
Click to expand...
That's definitely better.

Eseseso said:
Also, in the entry for Info Manipulation/Subjective Reality/Reality Warping, I added two more powers that I noticed based on the justification entry (Law Manip and Physics Manip) if you could just glance at that.

Thank you very much for your help, btw.
Click to expand...
That's fine too, as they are using their own minds to give meaning to the laws they are observing being present.
 
Eseseso said:
Subjective Reality, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, & Reality Warping: Consciousness is the blueprint by which all worlds and times were born, to control one's own consciousness is to control everything, is to become everything. Reality exists through consciousness, it is always changing, being shaped by our thoughts, the Weaver is a technology that creates realities coming from our consciousness, these realities created by consciousness are no less real than the primary realities from which they originate[18]. Mind and Soul are equals, within your soul/consciousness you find the realm of pure thought, which is boundless and formless, and which takes shape according to ourselves. There is no difference in the truthfulness of the worlds of the unconscious or the concrete reality, there are those who claim that all the universe is no more than a holographic projection[31]. Consciousness is shaping the universe, minds are expanding the universe itself and building physics and mathematics[32]. The Astral Plane is the realm of the mind as well as an abstract dimension shaped by the minds of those present.

Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2; Aspect Types 1, 2 [Type 3 Concept], & 3): The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.

Limited Causality Manipulation/Limited Plot Manipulation* - Since the Astral Plane is the realm of narrative, to affect one's Astral Form is to affect their personal narrative.

Also, I would like to note that I have added a few other scans of note, like stuff confirming that the mind and soul are one and the same (meaning Astral Forms are both mind and soul), such as this scan: Furthermore, the human mind, soul, and "essential life-force" are stated to be one and the same.

And from what I can tell, the majority of staff also seem to be fine with the higher-dimensional telepathy based on the Astral Plane/Forms being higher-dimensional.
Click to expand...
At a glance, this all seems fine to me.
 
PrinceofPein said:
Efficiente had some concerns?
What are they?
Click to expand...
Look at the earlier pages, Efi made his concerns clear.

And he was already outvoted heavily in everything besides the above stuff that is still being discussed like NEP.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
That's definitely better.


That's fine too, as they are using their own minds to give meaning to the laws they are observing being present.
Click to expand...

LordTracer said:
At a glance, this all seems fine to me.
Click to expand...
Btw, do you two think this could be Nonduality Type 1:

The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.

And if so, which aspect?
 
Eseseso said:
Subjective Reality, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, & Reality Warping: Consciousness is the blueprint by which all worlds and times were born, to control one's own consciousness is to control everything, is to become everything. Reality exists through consciousness, it is always changing, being shaped by our thoughts, the Weaver is a technology that creates realities coming from our consciousness, these realities created by consciousness are no less real than the primary realities from which they originate[18]. Mind and Soul are equals, within your soul/consciousness you find the realm of pure thought, which is boundless and formless, and which takes shape according to ourselves. There is no difference in the truthfulness of the worlds of the unconscious or the concrete reality, there are those who claim that all the universe is no more than a holographic projection[31]. Consciousness is shaping the universe, minds are expanding the universe itself and building physics and mathematics[32]. The Astral Plane is the realm of the mind as well as an abstract dimension shaped by the minds of those present.
Click to expand...
I can agree with everything here.
Eseseso said:
Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2; Aspect Types 1, 2 [Type 3 Concept], & 3): The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.
Click to expand...
I'm fine with nature type 2. As for the aspects, if you're arguing here that astral forms comprise one's information and narrative, I think those aspects could be included too?

Edit: Nonduality type 1 could apply here too.
Eseseso said:
Limited Causality Manipulation/Limited Plot Manipulation* - Since the Astral Plane is the realm of narrative, to affect one's Astral Form is to affect their personal narrative.
Click to expand...
I agree with plot manipulation, but where does the causality manipulation come from?
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I can agree with everything here.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
ProfectusInfinity said:
I'm fine with nature type 2. As for the aspects, if you're arguing here that astral forms comprise one's information and narrative, I think those aspects could be included too?
Click to expand...
I spoke about this with Ultima, he said no.
ProfectusInfinity said:
Edit: Nonduality type 1 could apply here too.
Click to expand...
Great, I'd just need to know which aspect.
ProfectusInfinity said:
I agree with plot manipulation, but where does the causality manipulation come from?
Click to expand...
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
I believe he suggested that it might be either/or, as when they fight in the astral plane, they can conjure entire events and change them
Click to expand...
I just figured that affecting one's narrative was affecting their personal causality, aka causality manip on the personal level.
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
I believe he suggested that it might be either/or, as when they fight in the astral plane, they can conjure entire events and change them
Click to expand...
Btw, any thoughts on this:
Eseseso said:
Btw, do you two think this could be Nonduality Type 1:

The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.

And if so, which aspect?
Click to expand...
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
You probably want someone like @Planck69 @Everything12 @Elizhaa to evaluate that. I'm not that knowledgeable on the more philosophical bs on site.
Click to expand...
Got it.

I asked Planck on Discord, he said that it's ND but he doesn't know which aspect.

Edit: Since it is between existence and non-existence, that would make it Type 1, Aspect 2, correct?
 
Last edited:
Added Nonduality Type 1, Aspect 2 to the list of stuff to look at.
 
Eseseso said:
Subjective Reality, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, & Reality Warping: Consciousness is the blueprint by which all worlds and times were born, to control one's own consciousness is to control everything, is to become everything. Reality exists through consciousness, it is always changing, being shaped by our thoughts, the Weaver is a technology that creates realities coming from our consciousness, these realities created by consciousness are no less real than the primary realities from which they originate[18]. Mind and Soul are equals, within your soul/consciousness you find the realm of pure thought, which is boundless and formless, and which takes shape according to ourselves. There is no difference in the truthfulness of the worlds of the unconscious or the concrete reality, there are those who claim that all the universe is no more than a holographic projection[31]. Consciousness is shaping the universe, minds are expanding the universe itself and building physics and mathematics[32]. The Astral Plane is the realm of the mind as well as an abstract dimension shaped by the minds of those present.

Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2; Aspect Types 1, 2 [Type 3 Concept], & 3): The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.

Nonduality (Nature 1; Aspect 2): The Astral Realm, where all Astral Forms reside, is described as "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"[10], and because Astral Forms are composed of not just one's soul, but also one's mind and the very essence of who they are, they thus exist between "being" and "not being" in regard to their minds, souls, and personal concepts.

Limited Causality Manipulation/Limited Plot Manipulation* - Since the Astral Plane is the realm of narrative, to affect one's Astral Form is to affect their personal narrative.

Also, I would like to note that I have added a few other scans of note, like stuff confirming that the mind and soul are one and the same (meaning Astral Forms are both mind and soul), such as this scan: Furthermore, the human mind, soul, and "essential life-force" are stated to be one and the same.

And from what I can tell, the majority of staff also seem to be fine with the higher-dimensional telepathy based on the Astral Plane/Forms being higher-dimensional.
Click to expand...
This seems fine to apply.
 
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