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NNT Speed Revision

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ByAsura said:
Mel = Mach 3934 (MHS+).

Demon Mel = Mach 7868.1 (MHS+).

Galand = Mach 15736.3 (Sub-Rel).

Demon Unsealed Meliodas = Mach 62945.2 (Sub-Rel+).

Post-Revival Demon Meliodas = Mach 251780.7 (Rel).
Click to expand...
New scaling.

Since Mach 7868.1 to 8810.2 is just under a 12% change, I think we could argue upscaling to Sub-Rel for characters faster than Demon Meliodas, Albions' combat speed or full power Gray Hendrickson, like Matrona, PT Base Diane and BoS King w/First Form.
Makai641001 said:
A glint is by definition a flash of light (on reflective surfaces etc…)
Click to expand...
Makai641001 said:
Senko natively intends flash of light so he won’t say flash of light of light
Click to expand...
If it's just flash or glint on its own, then I think we shouldn't use it even if there's narrative reasons.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Natively? Or do you mean "naturally" like in everyday usage? Because then it would just be "flash", not flash of light.

For example, I'll use "senko" in another sentence:

彼女はいなずま稲妻のせんこう閃光をみ見てひめい悲鳴をあげた

You wouldn't natively read this as "she screamed at the flash of light lightning". You would read it as, "she screamed at the flash of lightning".

I do not understand why you're saying this explicitly is "flash of light" when senko does not mean that unless natively/naturally.
Click to expand...
I meant it’s translated litteraly it’s composed of two kanjis « Flash » and « Light » hence why it’s used as flash of light

In your sentence 稲妻 is the reason why it’s « flash of lightning »
 
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ByAsura said:
New scaling.

Since Mach 7868.1 to 8810.2 is just under a 12% change, I think we could argue upscaling to Sub-Rel for characters faster than Demon Meliodas, Albions' combat speed or full power Gray Hendrickson, like Matrona, PT Base Diane and BoS King w/First Form.


If it's just flash or glint on its own, then I think we shouldn't use it even if there's narrative reasons.
Click to expand...
It’s flash of light (glint is anyway a flash of light that’s getting reflected)

I think we could upscale but 12% seems like a pretty big gap
 
First Form King one-shot Albion from a distance, so I'd say it's reasonable.

I guess Diane and Matrona can just get an at least.
 
Makai641001 said:
I meant it’s translated litteraly it’s composed of two kanjis « Flash » and « Light » hence why it’s used as flash of light

In your sentence 稲妻 is the reason why it’s « flash of lightning »
Click to expand...
... I'm sorry but that's not how kanji always works.

Kanji can hold different meanings and different pronunciations that change depending on if they are "compounding" with a nearby kanji or their furigana to indicate the correct pronunciation which in turns also tells us their definition.

For instance, 日 means day and 本 means book but when you combine them and write as 日本 it means Japan. Now you ask why is that? 日 DOESN'T only mean day, it can also mean sun and 本 doesn't only mean book but can also mean origin. Now how do I know that I am to interpret those kanji as those definitions? It's either by their furigana or how the kanji is naturally defined in the area which is the case in this example.

閃光

You could read this as "Flash" + "Light", but it's not. We have furigana here in the screenshot provided of the Grace, せんこう. This is Senko! This means flash and only flash, not flash of light.

Plus, you brought up "natively" but I don't think you understand that 閃光 natively means "flash" as well. I've never seen this used for flash of light, this is just flash.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
... I'm sorry but that's not how kanji always works.

Kanji can hold different meanings and different pronunciations that change depending on if they are "compounding" with a nearby kanji or their furigana to indicate the correct pronunciation which in turns also tells us their definition.

For instance, 日 means day and 本 means book but when you combine them and write as 日本 it means Japan. Now you ask why is that? 日 DOESN'T only mean day, it can also mean sun and 本 doesn't only mean book but can also mean origin. Now how do I know that I am to interpret those kanji as those definitions? It's either by their furigana or how the kanji is naturally defined in the area which is the case in this example.

閃光

You could read this as "Flash" + "Light", but it's not. We have furigana here in the screenshot provided of the Grace, せんこう. This is Senko! This means flash and only flash, not flash of light.

Plus, you brought up "natively" but I don't think you understand that 閃光 natively means "flash" as well. I've never seen this used for flash of light, this is just flash.
Click to expand...
Senko means « A light that flashes strongly for a moment » or a «Flash of light » or « light emitted in short bursts (a flash of light) » in Japanese but since you won’t listen my translation or this one

Here is what is said on Weblio (a jap website similar to Wikipedia and shit) about how to read Senko
here is what is said on Jisho about Senko
Here is what is said on DeepL about Senko
Here
Here
Here
Here


Senko is intended to be used for FLASH OF LIGHT it’s a flash (of light)
 
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ByAsura said:
New scaling.

Since Mach 7868.1 to 8810.2 is just under a 12% change, I think we could argue upscaling to Sub-Rel for characters faster than Demon Meliodas, Albions' combat speed or full power Gray Hendrickson, like Matrona, PT Base Diane and BoS King w/First Form.
Click to expand...
I agree with the new scaling
ByAsura said:
If it's just flash or glint on its own, then I think we shouldn't use it even if there's narrative reasons.
Click to expand...
As shown with my translation 2 non native dictionaries and 3 native dictionaries Senko refers to a flash of light therefore the statements should be considered valid

We also have Fiddick statement and Relativistic scaling that indicate Lightspeed isn’t something impossible to reach in verse and we litteraly know his grace is light base so these narrative reasons coupled with litteral statements and scaling consistency should be enough

I’ll probably be inactive as my ex gf had a car accident I prefer to be with her.

Sorry
 
You already covered that exact statement and I acceded (at least until IMadeThisOn comes up with a sufficient counter), but ok.

We've debated this before, Graces aren't directly literal to their names enough for that to be proof, and Fiddich is basically meaningless for scaling to anyone except Lancelot/Lancelot-level characters as of right now.
 
ByAsura said:
You already covered that exact statement and I acceded (at least until IMadeThisOn comes up with a sufficient counter), but ok.

We've debated this before, Graces aren't directly literal to their names enough for that to be proof, and Fiddich is basically meaningless for scaling to anyone except Lancelot/Lancelot-level characters as of right now.
Click to expand...
Yeah Graces names aren’t litteral but this and the fact that his grace is visually light based gives us an indication the fact that the side panels say he litteraly move at the speed of a flash of light is just la cerise sur le gâteau as We say in French

Also false Percival lvl characters should scale to Fiddick too
 
"visually light"? Since when?

Oh right, Percy at his strongest (maybe). This means Demon Tristan, Meland, etc could scale too. But distinctly not Ludoshel.
 
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Actually, thanks for reminding me of that last one. I completely forgot.
 
ByAsura said:
New scaling.

Since Mach 7868.1 to 8810.2 is just under a 12% change, I think we could argue upscaling to Sub-Rel for characters faster than Demon Meliodas, Albions' combat speed or full power Gray Hendrickson, like Matrona, PT Base Diane and BoS King w/First Form.


If it's just flash or glint on its own, then I think we shouldn't use it even if there's narrative reasons.
Click to expand...
I agree
 
ByAsura said:
There's a new calculation for Sealed base Meliodas, increasing his speed to Mach 4415.5 (MHS+).

Using a 2x multiplier for Meliodas and Zeldris' Demon Marks was accepted here, and Snatch being additive in speed, LS and AP was accepted here.

Demon Meliodas outsped Snatch Ban, who absorbed all of his base speed and added it to his own (Ban was slightly faster than Meliodas prior). Mach 8831 (Sub-Rel).

Galand at half speed (since Ban stole it from him) mostly keeps up with a much faster Snatch Ban. Mach 17662.1 (Sub-Rel).

Base Unsealed Meliodas is way faster than Galand, and 2nd Mark is a 4x multiplier. Mach 70648.56 (Sub-Rel+).

Post-Revival base Meliodas is superior to his 2nd Mark, as he could wreck Derieri, and 2nd Mark is once again a 4x multiplier. Mach 282594.2 (Rel).

Edit: Altered MHS+ scaling.

Now here's where the fun begins; FTL scaling.

Ludoshel's Flash has numerous speed of light statements under its belt, which have been accepted (I think).

Basically, 1st Mark Zeldris is able to keep up with Flash, although he's a little slower. Keep in mind, the clash has the same visual effects as Ludoshel's normal use of Flash, and the title is literally called Flash. Originally, I regarded Flash as something that only works in short bursts (something I still agree with) and regulated all of Zeldris' scaling to his combat speed, but I think this makes less sense upon review, since both 2nd Mark Zeldris and Mael were frequently able to perform feats on each other that go beyond simple combat speed, and show that their movements and reactions are at least somewhat similar.

Cusack and Chandler are physically superior to 1st Mark Zeldris, with the former even outspeeding a weakened Ludoshel (I don't even think he's using Flash here, but people will try to gaslight me into believing it, so yeah), but they're slower than full power Flash, and even Original Demon wasn't able to fully keep up with True Body Ludoshel's Flash (who has the same SoL statements for both forms).

1st Mark Ominous Nebula should also be FTL, since Ludoshel couldn't react to its slashing attack. There's a statement that Ominous Nebula only possibly surpasses Flash with 2nd Mark, but it's confirmed that Ominous Nebula is faster.

As for the rest, it's pretty simple.

While Zeldris was looking, Demon King Meliodas casually one-shot him with a lightning bolt. Ban one-shot him, base Meliodas alone can intercept attacks faster than this and blitz a faster (as in faster than 2nd Mark Zeldris, not DK Meliodas) Zeldris Demon King, etc.

Keep in mind, even if Zeldris is 2x SoL, nobody would breech into FTL+ because the largest multiplier at that point is 4x SoL. So no FTL+ scaling unless we accept that 100% Demon King is 2x faster than 50% Demon King (and therefore Demon King Meliodas), which is contradicted by him keeping up with the Sins, and a notion that was never accepted.

Basically,
  • A higher level of MHS+ BoS Meliodas, King, Diane, Ban, Diane, Gowther, Gilthunder, etc.
  • Sub-Rel Demon Meliodas and Snatch Ban.
  • A higher level of Sub-Rel Galand, Melascula, base Unsealed Meliodas, etc.
  • Sub-Rel+ Unsealed Demon Meliodas, Derieri, Tarmiel, Sariel, Estarossa, non-God Zeldris, etc.
  • Rel Post-Revival Demon Mark Meliodas.
  • Rel+ 1st Mark God Zel, Chandler, Cusack, Original Demon.
  • SoL Flash Ludoshel. On the profile, it'll just be written out as 'Speed of Light with Flash' with probably no prior rating.
  • FTL 2nd Mark Zeldris/Ominous Nebula, Induras, Post-Purgatory Meliodas (in general), Post-Purgatory Ban, Demon King (in general), Full Wings King, etc.
I also think that Drole should get Sub-Rel movement and reactions, with Sub-Rel+ combat speed.
Click to expand...
Some dude on the discord is arguing about Demon mark being a 3x multiplier for the exact same « Meli one shotted with ease so it’s at least 3x » bs so could we make a rule in order to avoid this shit unless we have new evidence
 
Makai641001 said:
Some dude on the discord is arguing about Demon mark being a 3x multiplier for the exact same « Meli one shotted with ease so it’s at least 3x » bs so could we make a rule in order to avoid this shit unless we have new evidence
Click to expand...
Not sure if it's necessary right now, but it may be in the future.
Majinere566 said:
If the whole Lightspeed thing gets axed how will the speed scaling look like?
Click to expand...
Holy War = vaguely faster than Post-Revival to some extent.

Post-Purgatory is faster than Holy War 2nd Mark, Mael, Ludoshel, etc. So anyone on par with 2nd Mark Demon Post-Purgatory Meliodas (Demon King, Ban, King, etc) become 1.15 x SoL.
 
I don't think it's enough for more than a possibly, tbh.
 
I could go for a possibly.

But if it's literally moving like a "glint" (which is quite literally flashes of light) I don't see why we can't get a full rating?
 
Majinere566 said:
I could go for a possibly.

But if it's literally moving like a "glint" (which is quite literally flashes of light) I don't see why we can't get a full rating?
Click to expand...
A glint is a flash of reflected light by our standards it’s lightspeed Senkou refers to a flash of light i’ve sent like 3 different Japanese sites that confirms what I say
 
ByAsura said:
@Arc7Kuroi Sorry to bother you, but we're having a bit of a debate here on whether or not some statements are acceptable as light-speed based on the translation. Makai's arguing that it's 'literally a flash of light', while IMade is saying it's just flash.
Click to expand...
What I argue about is Senko meaning flash (of light) going with 6 different sources and my knowledge it’s defined as « a short burst of strong light, a flash of light »

I asked The ninth hour waiting for his response

Arc can refer to this message I posted yesterday:

Senko means « A light that flashes strongly for a moment » or a «Flash of light » or « light emitted in short bursts (a flash of light) » in Japanese but since you won’t listen my translation or this one

Here is what is said on Weblio (a jap website similar to Wikipedia and shit) about how to read Senko
here is what is said on Jisho about Senko
Here is what is said on DeepL about Senko
Here
Here
Here
Here
Here
Here
Senko is intended to be used for FLASH OF LIGHT it’s a flash (of light)
Click to expand...
 
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ByAsura said:
@Arc7Kuroi Sorry to bother you, but we're having a bit of a debate here on whether or not some statements are acceptable as light-speed based on the translation. Makai's arguing that it's 'literally a flash of light', while IMade is saying it's just flash.
Click to expand...
閃光の如き速度 = speed like a flash (of light)

reads like a simile to me. Literally 閃光 just means flash but you can read it like flash of light, of light is kind of implied with the word flash alone anyhow, cuz light is what flashes unless you’re talking about a creep flashing someone which we aren’t. But again “speed LIKE a flash of light” reads much more like a simile than saying it means “speed of light”.

This debate is 🗿 because the kanji of interest as IMade says is commonly just read as “flash”, but it inherently implies a flash of light. The kanji itself is composed of the kanji for flash and light. Ima go now
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
閃光の如き速度 = speed like a flash (of light)

reads like a simile to me. Literally 閃光 just means flash but you can read it like flash of light, of light is kind of implied with the word flash alone anyhow, cuz light is what flashes unless you’re talking about a creep flashing someone which we aren’t. But again “speed LIKE a flash of light” reads much more like a simile than saying it means “speed of light”.

This debate is 🗿 because the kanji of interest as IMade says is commonly just read as “flash”, but it inherently implies a flash of light. The kanji itself is composed of the kanji for flash and light. Ima go now
Click to expand...
Thanks!!! finally

The sentence here says that he LITTERALY (文字通り) move at the speed of a Flash of light and it’s consistant with the current scaling and with Fiddick Lightspeed statement which is the reason why we accept it in the first place

Ik you are busy in school so sorry for the inconvenience

PS: I’m a creep that flashes you
 
ByAsura said:
Thanks and good luck Arc.

Anyway, I suppose the debate around this is over.
Click to expand...
Yay

Speedster Q&A time:

1) « How much longer for the nnt upgrades? »

Speedster salty comment time:

« Yes make sure to tell byashura this it’s taking way too long 9 month long revision »

He probably thinks that this comment will change your life drastically.
 
OneBleachHurricane said:
So basically, he hasn't changed
Click to expand...
Oh boy…
I don’t want to rub salt into the wound but just look at the 150 @everyone/@Makai daily discord mentions and make your own opinion.

We’ll see on April’s 1st anyway

Edit: Oh and remember the fact that he has a mental disorder Blablabla or else he will talk about it to justify his attitude
 
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