NNT AP Revision

[ByAsura]

This makes sense also wouldn’t prime Ludoceil be stronger than astral body? Can that be a 2x amp?

True Body Ludoshel is already a 2x amp from Vessel Ludoshel.

As for astral body and his prime, he's just weaker to an unknown extent.

Omg Asura showing clear bias against NNT lowballing it all the time

 

[Makai641001]

Don’t provoke my inner demon

 

[Testarossa002]

I have a question then

So Bleach using 5x multipliers for Both AP and speed is Wrong ?
We don’t know if this 5x multiplier apply 5x to speed and 5x to power rather Ichigo’s multiplier is greatly based on speed à large part of this 5x would then Go to speed and a little part of the same 5x to AP but it’s unquantifiable therefore Bleach shouldn’t use multipliers since they assume Both stats are amped the same way in the same quantity

I think only Ichigo's stuff applies to speed
Narutoverse had "orders of magnitude more power" and senjutsu 10x more power but both were refused for speed even though speed had a noticeable amp because the statement didn't mention speed

 

[Makai641001]

I think only Ichigo's stuff applies to speed
Narutoverse had "orders of magnitude more power" and senjutsu 10x more power but both were refused for speed even though speed had a noticeable amp because the statement didn't mention speed

Ichigo’s Bankai is applied to Speed and AP Just as for every other dude in verse
Renji’s Bankai is Power based but the multiplier is used for speed too
They should get « higher » ratings not 5x amp if We are being fair

 

[Makai641001]

I think only Ichigo's stuff applies to speed
Narutoverse had "orders of magnitude more power" and senjutsu 10x more power but both were refused for speed even though speed had a noticeable amp because the statement didn't mention speed

For NNT it’s quite different there are lots of additional proofs that are quantifiable

 

[Makai641001]

I think only Ichigo's stuff applies to speed
Narutoverse had "orders of magnitude more power" and senjutsu 10x more power but both were refused for speed even though speed had a noticeable amp because the statement didn't mention speed

Who is it on your pfp?

 

[Testarossa002]

Ichigo’s Bankai is applied to Speed and AP Just as for every other dude in verse
Renji’s Bankai is Power based but the multiplier is used for speed too
They should get « higher » ratings not 5x amp if We are being fair

A big bird aka Tracer said the bankai multipliers would be revised in the future

 

[Testarossa002]

Who is it on your pfp?

Ihwa from Hero Killer

 

[Deceived3596]

Everyone please don't bring up Bleach's multipliers when they're going to go through massive revisions in the distant future, so how they currently are wouldn't/shouldn't affect this thread at all. (also seeing people talk about series that i'm very knowledgeable on and how they completely butcher them scaling wise makes me :crydo:)

 

[KingTempest]

I'll take your word for that.

Don't

That’s only for strength but they apply it for speed.

It never says it's for strength. It says fighting ability, and Ichigo has a speed statement.

Plus they're in the middle of revisions to revise that. So don't even bring them up

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama Sorry to bother you, but I need some assistance with some multiplier stuff since (IIRC) you three were heavily involved in the multiplier thread.

Itachi brought up that some of the multipliers may be invalidated by the multiplier rules (namely, the fact that multipliers have to be stated to be consistent). So I need another opinion on the multipliers' validity.

Firstly, there's the Demon Mark multiplier. For reference, 1st Mark is the regular Demon Mark, and 2nd Mark is a larger and more powerful amp.

• Zeldris' 2nd Mark explicitly doubled the speed of his 2nd Mark's Ominous Nebula (which is based on simply revolving his attacks at an extremely high rate to create a vacuum). Additionally, Zeldris' 2nd Mark was illustrated as being superior to Original Demon, who is a fusion of two beings that were a bit superior to his 1st Mark.
• Demon Meliodas' 1st Mark has displayed a 2x speed and power multiplier on two occasions;
  • Firstly it caved in a somewhat (but not very heavily, as he tanked attacks from characters much stronger than Meliodas right after) weakened Hendrickson's chest. Hendrickson here added the power of a Grey Demon to his own and could easily knock out Gilthunder, who's withstood attacks on par with Meliodas being reflected back at him with more than twice the power (see definition of several).
  • Secondly, he obliterated Snatch-amped Ban, who was already faster than Meliodas before explicitly adding Meliodas' speed and power to his own with Snatch.

So that's a partial statement and consistency. Is this enough for applying a 2x multiplier to all their keys, or is it only applicable to the specific keys in this instance?

Secondly, there's the goddess amp. Basically, Ludoshel went from doing no damage to Cusack and Chandler to heavily damaging amped an amped Original Demon (Original Demon explicitly being Chandler + Cusack) in a weakened state after he stopped possessing his vessel. Ludoshel's vessel was explicitly the perfect match for his magic power, so my logic was that all Goddesses should be 2x stronger than their vessels (which are explicitly weaker than Goddesses themselves in-universe).

Is this applicable?

I am unfortunately probably not a very good person to ask, unless I am very familiar with a particular subject.

@Qawsedf234 @Celestial_Pegasus @Elizhaa @Damage3245

What do you think about this?

 

[Makai641001]

A big bird aka Tracer said the bankai multipliers would be revised in the future

As it should be

Ihwa from Hero Killer

Thank you

Everyone please don't bring up Bleach's multipliers when they're going to go through massive revisions in the distant future, so how they currently are wouldn't/shouldn't affect this thread at all. (also seeing people talk about series that i'm very knowledgeable on and how they completely butcher them scaling wise makes me :crydo:)

Sorry i’m Pretty knowledgable on the verse too and i thought it was weird how it is scaled in comparison to this case

Don't

It never says it's for strength. It says fighting ability, and Ichigo has a speed statement.

Plus they're in the middle of revisions to revise that. So don't even bring them up

And Ichigo’s Bankai is Speed based + they’ll get revised in the future so i’ll wait for it

 

[Makai641001]

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama Sorry to bother you, but I need some assistance with some multiplier stuff since (IIRC) you three were heavily involved in the multiplier thread.

Itachi brought up that some of the multipliers may be invalidated by the multiplier rules (namely, the fact that multipliers have to be stated to be consistent). So I need another opinion on the multipliers' validity.

Firstly, there's the Demon Mark multiplier. For reference, 1st Mark is the regular Demon Mark, and 2nd Mark is a larger and more powerful amp.

• Zeldris' 2nd Mark explicitly doubled the speed of his 2nd Mark's Ominous Nebula (which is based on simply revolving his attacks at an extremely high rate to create a vacuum). Additionally, Zeldris' 2nd Mark was illustrated as being superior to Original Demon, who is a fusion of two beings that were a bit superior to his 1st Mark.
• Demon Meliodas' 1st Mark has displayed a 2x speed and power multiplier on two occasions;
  • Firstly it caved in a somewhat (but not very heavily, as he tanked attacks from characters much stronger than Meliodas right after) weakened Hendrickson's chest. Hendrickson here added the power of a Grey Demon to his own and could easily knock out Gilthunder, who's withstood attacks on par with Meliodas being reflected back at him with more than twice the power (see definition of several).
  • Secondly, he obliterated Snatch-amped Ban, who was already faster than Meliodas before explicitly adding Meliodas' speed and power to his own with Snatch.

So that's a partial statement and consistency. Is this enough for applying a 2x multiplier to all their keys, or is it only applicable to the specific keys in this instance?

Secondly, there's the goddess amp. Basically, Ludoshel went from doing no damage to Cusack and Chandler to heavily damaging amped an amped Original Demon (Original Demon explicitly being Chandler + Cusack) in a weakened state after he stopped possessing his vessel. Ludoshel's vessel was explicitly the perfect match for his magic power, so my logic was that all Goddesses should be 2x stronger than their vessels (which are explicitly weaker than Goddesses themselves in-universe).

Is this applicable?

This rule is pretty bad if it’s as binary as it seems.

 

[Makai641001]

Now i Wanna re read bleach just to see daddy Ichigo

 

[speedster352]

It never says it's for strength. It says fighting ability, and Ichigo has a speed statement.

Ichigo bankai is fake and more of a resurrection/bankai no other shinagami gets a speed boost.

 

[Majinere566]

Please stop bringing in other verses

 

[speedster352]

Please stop bringing in other verses

My bad by the looks of it this crt is getting too much backlash even though the stuff was accepted in past crts.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama Sorry to bother you, but I need some assistance with some multiplier stuff since (IIRC) you three were heavily involved in the multiplier thread.

Itachi brought up that some of the multipliers may be invalidated by the multiplier rules (namely, the fact that multipliers have to be stated to be consistent). So I need another opinion on the multipliers' validity.

Firstly, there's the Demon Mark multiplier. For reference, 1st Mark is the regular Demon Mark, and 2nd Mark is a larger and more powerful amp.

• Zeldris' 2nd Mark explicitly doubled the speed of his 2nd Mark's Ominous Nebula (which is based on simply revolving his attacks at an extremely high rate to create a vacuum). Additionally, Zeldris' 2nd Mark was illustrated as being superior to Original Demon, who is a fusion of two beings that were a bit superior to his 1st Mark.
• Demon Meliodas' 1st Mark has displayed a 2x speed and power multiplier on two occasions;
  • Firstly it caved in a somewhat (but not very heavily, as he tanked attacks from characters much stronger than Meliodas right after) weakened Hendrickson's chest. Hendrickson here added the power of a Grey Demon to his own and could easily knock out Gilthunder, who's withstood attacks on par with Meliodas being reflected back at him with more than twice the power (see definition of several).
  • Secondly, he obliterated Snatch-amped Ban, who was already faster than Meliodas before explicitly adding Meliodas' speed and power to his own with Snatch.

So that's a partial statement and consistency. Is this enough for applying a 2x multiplier to all their keys, or is it only applicable to the specific keys in this instance?

Secondly, there's the goddess amp. Basically, Ludoshel went from doing no damage to Cusack and Chandler to heavily damaging amped an amped Original Demon (Original Demon explicitly being Chandler + Cusack) in a weakened state after he stopped possessing his vessel. Ludoshel's vessel was explicitly the perfect match for his magic power, so my logic was that all Goddesses should be 2x stronger than their vessels (which are explicitly weaker than Goddesses themselves in-universe).

Is this applicable?

It means that SPECIFICALLY Meliodas' First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp to Power and Speed

So Base Meliodas using his First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp

It doesn't mean EVERY SINGLE Demon Mark is a stacked 2x Amp

For instance, we know Meliodas' Second Demon Mark>First Demon Mark, but that doesn't mean he stacks a 2x multiplier ontop of another multiplier

So like...

Base Meliodas could be 1 Megaton, First Demon Mark would make him 2 Megatons, you don't then stack his Second Demon Mark as another 2x multiplier and make Second Demon Mark Meliodas 4 Megatons, it would just mean that Second Demon Mark Meliodas is At least 2 Megatons via scaling above his First Demon Mark

So basically…

Meliodas’ First Demon Mark is an 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Meliodas’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Meliodas’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Zeldris’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to Speed ontop of his Base Form

We know the first Demon Mark doubles stats, but we don’t know if the Second Demon Mark and Third Demon Mark doubles those already doubled stats

This DOES NOT apply to every single person that uses a Demon Mark, unless you can prove all Demon Marks are the exact same. It’s like how Fairy Tail has different multipliers for different Dragon Force’s

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If I can have some contexts to how multipliers are implied here, I might be able to evaluated validity.

 

[Le'garde273]

It means that SPECIFICALLY Meliodas' First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp to Power and Speed

So Base Meliodas using his First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp

It doesn't mean EVERY SINGLE Demon Mark is a stacked 2x Amp

For instance, we know Meliodas' Second Demon Mark>First Demon Mark, but that doesn't mean he stacks a 2x multiplier ontop of another multiplier

So like...

Base Meliodas could be 1 Megaton, First Demon Mark would make him 2 Megatons, you don't then stack his Second Demon Mark as another 2x multiplier and make Second Demon Mark Meliodas 4 Megatons, it would just mean that Second Demon Mark Meliodas is At least 2 Megatons via scaling above his First Demon Mark

So basically…

Meliodas’ First Demon Mark is an 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Meliodas’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Meliodas’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Zeldris’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to Speed ontop of his Base Form

We know the first Demon Mark doubles stats, but we don’t know if the Second Demon Mark and Third Demon Mark doubles those already doubled stats

This DOES NOT apply to every single person that uses a Demon Mark, unless you can prove all Demon Marks are the exact same. It’s like how Fairy Tail has different multipliers for different Dragon Force’s

Just in case you forget, but their demon mark EXACTLY prove as relatively in cursed by light movie. Basicly same as hell
Even when their first demon mark generally get stomped by dahlia and dubs, their second-third demon mark even potrait dahlia speed to be slowmotion (proved their demon mark increased speed) although in first demon mark they're get stomped.

I will send imgur video scan later

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Just in case you forget, but their demon mark EXACTLY prove as relatively in cursed by light movie. Basicly same as hell
Even when their first demon mark generally get stomped by dahlia and dubs, their second-third demon mark even potrait dahlia speed to be slowmotion although in first demon mark they're get stomped.

I will send imgur scan later

Nobody is arguing the Demon Marks provide an amp to speed and attack potency

But the Demon Marks providing a massive amp is NOT proof that it is a confirmed 2x amp to all stats

Do you have confirmed statements that prove that Base Meliodas to 3rd Demon Mark Meliodas is a 6x Difference?

Do you have confirmed proof that every single Demon Mark used doubles Meliodas' Power further?

Like do you have actual proof that 2nd Demon Mark doubles the power of Meliodas' 1st Demon Mark?

Nobody is arguing against Meliodas' Demon Marks doubling his BASE FORM STATS

 

[speedster352]

Nobody is arguing the Demon Marks provide an amp to speed and attack potency

But the Demon Marks providing a massive amp is NOT proof that it is a confirmed 2x amp to all stats

Do you have confirmed statements that prove that Base Meliodas to 3rd Demon Mark Meliodas is a 6x Difference?

Do you have confirmed proof that every single Demon Mark used doubles Meliodas' Power further?

Like do you have actual proof that 2nd Demon Mark doubles the power of Meliodas' 1st Demon Mark?

Nobody is arguing against Meliodas' Demon Marks doubling his BASE FORM STATS

But his second demon mark changes from his first demon mark.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think Mitch makes sense here.

 

[speedster352]

I think Mitch makes sense here.

Let’s wait for byashura 2nd demon stacks from first demon mark as shown in cursed by light and Zeldris using omnious nebula and 2nd demon mark

 

[Makai641001]

It means that SPECIFICALLY Meliodas' First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp to Power and Speed

So Base Meliodas using his First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp

It doesn't mean EVERY SINGLE Demon Mark is a stacked 2x Amp

For instance, we know Meliodas' Second Demon Mark>First Demon Mark, but that doesn't mean he stacks a 2x multiplier ontop of another multiplier

So like...

Base Meliodas could be 1 Megaton, First Demon Mark would make him 2 Megatons, you don't then stack his Second Demon Mark as another 2x multiplier and make Second Demon Mark Meliodas 4 Megatons, it would just mean that Second Demon Mark Meliodas is At least 2 Megatons via scaling above his First Demon Mark

So basically…

Meliodas’ First Demon Mark is an 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Meliodas’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Meliodas’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Zeldris’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to Speed ontop of his Base Form

We know the first Demon Mark doubles stats, but we don’t know if the Second Demon Mark and Third Demon Mark doubles those already doubled stats

This DOES NOT apply to every single person that uses a Demon Mark, unless you can prove all Demon Marks are the exact same. It’s like how Fairy Tail has different multipliers for different Dragon Force’s

You’ve already Made this argument and lost it to Asura

Zeldris Using his 2nd demon Mark is explicitely stated to be 2x his Demon mark stats btw

 

[Makai641001]

I think Mitch makes sense here.

He repeated something that Asura adressed already

 

[Makai641001]

It means that SPECIFICALLY Meliodas' First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp to Power and Speed

Yeah

So Base Meliodas using his First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp

Yeah

It doesn't mean EVERY SINGLE Demon Mark is a stacked 2x Amp

I mean DM2 Zel was 2x > Dm1 Zel in terms of speed and We know for a fact that their power is enhanced too We have some context that could back things up

For instance, we know Meliodas' Second Demon Mark>First Demon Mark, but that doesn't mean he stacks a 2x multiplier ontop of another multiplier

DM2 are stated 2x multipliers even when stacked upon DM1

So like...

Base Meliodas could be 1 Megaton, First Demon Mark would make him 2 Megatons, you don't then stack his Second Demon Mark as another 2x multiplier and make Second Demon Mark Meliodas 4 Megatons, it would just mean that Second Demon Mark Meliodas is At least 2 Megatons via scaling above his First Demon Mark

So like
Base Mel 1 megaton Mach 1 DM1 2 megatons Mach 2 DM2 (currently higher possibly 4 megatons) Mach 4

So basically…

Meliodas’ First Demon Mark is an 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

Yeah

Meliodas’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to AP and Speed to his Base Form

No it is considered as 2x when stacked upon DM1

Zeldris’ Second Demon Mark is an at least 2x Amp to Speed ontop of his Base Form

DM1*

We know the first Demon Mark doubles stats, but we don’t know if the Second Demon Mark and Third Demon Mark doubles those already doubled stats

We know it does wdym Zel was in DM1 and his succion was 1
He goes DM2 his succion doubled

This DOES NOT apply to every single person that uses a Demon Mark, unless you can prove all Demon Marks are the exact same. It’s like how Fairy Tail has different multipliers for different Dragon Force’s

It’s the exact same technique/mark it has 0 difference and is something Physiology related you’ve conceded this already

 

[Lormac_CC]

We know the first Demon Mark doubles stats, but we don’t know if the Second Demon Mark and Third Demon Mark doubles those already doubled stats

Asura just showed both first and second doubles their stat

This DOES NOT apply to every single person that uses a Demon Mark, unless you can prove all Demon Marks are the exact same. It’s like how Fairy Tail has different multipliers for different Dragon Force’s

This isn't fairy tail where there are different dragon forces, this is taizai.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean DM2 Zel was 2x > Dm1 Zel in terms of speed and We know for a fact that their power is enhanced too We have some context that could back things up

In terms of speed yes... There's no statement that it actually doubled in power...

DM2 are stated 2x multipliers even when stacked upon DM1

Only Zeldris' and only for speed...

Base Mel 1 megaton Mach 1 DM1 2 megatons Mach 2 DM2 (currently higher possibly 4 megatons) Mach 4

Yeah no, that isn't even remotely confirmed... You're just assuming that cause 3rd Demon Mark Meliodas was equal to 2nd Demon Mark Zeldris in the trash 2nd Movie

No it is considered as 2x when stacked upon DM1

Based on what? Like where's the actual statement that specifically Meliodas' 2nd Demon Mark is 2x stronger than his 1st Demon Mark

Not Zeldris, Meliodas

We know it does wdym Zel was in DM1 and his succion was 1
He goes DM2 his succion doubled

Suction Speed yes... Not actual raw power

It’s the exact same technique/mark it has 0 difference and is something Physiology related you’ve conceded this already

Not every Demon Mark is the same mate...

Asura just showed both first and second doubles their stat

No, he showed that Meliodas' 1st Demon Mark doubles power and speed, and that Zeldris' 2nd Demon Mark speed

This isn't fairy tail where there are different dragon forces, this is taizai.

So a far worse verse to scale cause of the people involved

 

[Makai641001]

In terms of speed yes... There's no statement that it actually doubled in power...

Only Zeldris' and only for speed...

Yeah no, that isn't even remotely confirmed... You're just assuming that cause 3rd Demon Mark Meliodas was equal to 2nd Demon Mark Zeldris in the trash 2nd Movie

Based on what? Like where's the actual statement that specifically Meliodas' 2nd Demon Mark is 2x stronger than his 1st Demon Mark

Not Zeldris, Meliodas

Suction Speed yes... Not actual raw power

Not every Demon Mark is the same mate...

No, he showed that Meliodas' 1st Demon Mark doubles power and speed, and that Zeldris' 2nd Demon Mark speed

So a far worse verse to scale cause of the people involved

I want you to find a single panel that would suggest these demon marks are something completely different

You are Just assuming they are different despite being physiology related and having the same effects demon marks are currently generalised in 4kota as Demon power as a whole the author isn’t making any difference.

Ik DM2 is about speed for now and would provide Higher rating as stated in my message but we know for a fact that it also amps greatly the raw power we’ll have to wait for the author to write sum about it

Your point was already discussed and you conceded.

Attacking us won’t change facts we aren’t here to trashtalk respect your elders

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I want you to find a single panel that would suggest these demon marks are something completely different

Burden of proof is to prove they’re the same… And that Meliodas’ 2nd Demon Mark doubles the power of his 1st Demon Mark… Zeldris’ Demon Mark doesn’t even double power, it doubles the speed of his attack… You can’t just arbitrarily assume that it doubles attack power. Bankai’s got rejected for being a 5x to all stats for this very reason

You are Just assuming they are different despite being physiology related and having the same effects demon marks are currently generalised in 4kota as Demon power as a whole the author isn’t making any difference.

Once again, I don’t have to prove they’re different. You have to prove they’re the same, which you still haven’t done yet… You haven’t proven that 1st Demon Mark Meliodas = 1st Demon Mark Zeldris and then confirmed they have the same amplification of power when they both use a 2nd Demon Mark, and even

Ik DM2 is about speed for now and would provide Higher rating as stated in my message but we know for a fact that it also amps greatly the raw power we’ll have to wait for the author to write sum about it

So you agree the 2nd Demon Mark doesn’t double power?

 

[Makai641001]

Burden of proof is to prove they’re the same… And that Meliodas’ 2nd Demon Mark doubles the power of his 1st Demon Mark… Zeldris’ Demon Mark doesn’t even double power, it doubles the speed of his attack… You can’t just arbitrarily assume that it doubles attack power. Bankai’s got rejected for being a 5x to all stats for this very reason

Here is how the author refers to the demon mark.

魔神族の力の解放で暴走状態となってしまったトリスタンが参戦。

Tristan, who went out of control as a result of the release of the demonic race's power, has entered the war.

• Hence why I said DM2 would be a « Higher » stacked upon DM1 without being a 2x amp since it’s not directly stated
• I used Bleach as an example earlier

Once again, I don’t have to prove they’re different. You have to prove they’re the same, which you still haven’t done yet… You haven’t proven that 1st Demon Mark Meliodas = 1st Demon Mark Zeldris and then confirmed they have the same amplification of power when they both use a 2nd Demon Mark, and even

We gave the movie as evidence for them being relative amps
I gave 4Kota and the author statement that generalise it to all demons
It is shown in verse to be a physiology trait common to all demons
You Also are the one making the claim about it not being the same thing the Burden would logically be on you a burden of proof fallacy would be to reject the burden and put it on someone that Made 0 assumption about it being different

So you agree the 2nd Demon Mark doesn’t double power?

I mean i’m the one who confirmed the translation since the beginning Mitch…
Just read the OP

Dm1 amps Both DM2 amps AP to an unknown extent and speed 2x

Demon marks are the same for every demons

is it okay or you want me to reformulate something ?

 

[Le'garde273]

Nobody is arguing the Demon Marks provide an amp to speed and attack potency

But the Demon Marks providing a massive amp is NOT proof that it is a confirmed 2x amp to all stats

Nobody is arguing against Meliodas' Demon Marks doubling his BASE FORM STATS

Seems like you have no disagree with first demon mark so i will not address it

Byasura maybe has different argument than me, but i also will try argue it by own argument

But the Demon Marks providing a massive amp is NOT proof that it is a confirmed 2x amp to all stats

Not to all stat, but it's directly already proved if first and second demon mark has physical and speed multiplier cleary as you can see in meliodas vs ban and zeldris scan

Do you have confirmed proof that every single Demon Mark used doubles Meliodas' Power further?

Like do you have actual proof that 2nd Demon Mark doubles the power of Meliodas' 1st Demon Mark?

First demon mark already
Second? It was stated his the second demon mark are even greater than double.

Do you have confirmed statements that prove that Base Meliodas to 3rd Demon Mark Meliodas is a 6x Difference?

Do you have confirmed proof that every single Demon Mark used doubles Meliodas' Power further?

My fellas dude why is that nesccesary stated by multiplier? doesn't that how multiplier works? Do you even ever found directly statement like that in other verse?

But nevermind about that, i wouldn't mind that.

Assault meliodas or dm3 full circular mark

Does it prove it several times stronger than base? Clearly YES, as merlin state assault mode is result of meliodas unleashing the very limit, it's more state "ironically he's grown stronger than he ever was before" which his second demon mark was can't even give scratch to melascula cocoon while his assault mode one shot it by only transform, how does you can say this form wasn't explicitly stronger for several than previous form? And by any chance tristan also explicitly broke out melascula cocoon with his echanment which canonly multiplier 2-3 times


And last, demon mark was a symbol of demon race

It's not like different potrait to each other of the user, meliodas zeldris estarossa and drefyus show it in same function. And also with consistentsy in cursed by light movie which potrait literally same, yeah they're literally equal giving more proof of it's was same boost ap and speed
It's not like different user are different effect

Also how do you can explain if second demon mark zeldris wasn't boost physical he can match mael that even stronger than
Ludociel and original demon?

 

[Makai641001]

Narratively speaking
Demon mark Zeldris is supposed to be weaker than Chandler and Cuzack individually yet could fight Mael Which would make the 2x AP Amp consistant Even though There is no direct statement

If the rule is entirely binary then the 2x AP amp won’t be accepted

If We follow the entire multiplier section additional content can be used to argue for multipliers if it is consistant

Going by the author statement demon marks are the same for everyone

So ig we can still accept DM2 as a 2x AP and speed amp through feats

The worst scenario would be if the rule is binary since DM2 wouldn’t be considered as a 2x amp in AP

Everything else has been settled iirc

 

[ByAsura]

Let’s wait for byashura 2nd demon stacks from first demon mark as shown in cursed by light and Zeldris using omnious nebula and 2nd demon mark

It stacks, but it's about multiplier rules allowing them to stack to the same extent.

Zeldris’ Demon Mark doesn’t even double power, it doubles the speed of his attack… You can’t just arbitrarily assume that it doubles attack power.

It's not an arbitrary assumption, feats also scale 2nd Mark to a 2x power amp (going from being weaker than Chandler, Cusack and Vessel Ludoshel to surpassing OG Demon). But feats apparently aren't enough.

It means that SPECIFICALLY Meliodas' First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp to Power and Speed

So Base Meliodas using his First Demon Mark is a 2x Amp

It doesn't mean EVERY SINGLE Demon Mark is a stacked 2x Amp

Ok, does this mean you agree with all incarnations of Meliodas' first marks being a 2x multiplier, or just the pre-Unsealed version?

This DOES NOT apply to every single person that uses a Demon Mark, unless you can prove all Demon Marks are the exact same. It’s like how Fairy Tail has different multipliers for different Dragon Force’s

Nobody actually has the amp except Meliodas and Zeldris, whose Demon Marks are visually and functionally similar.

 

[Makai641001]

It stacks, but it's about multiplier rules allowing them to stack to the same extent.

It's not an arbitrary assumption, feats also scale 2nd Mark to a 2x power amp (going from being weaker than Chandler, Cusack and Vessel Ludoshel to surpassing OG Demon). But feats apparently aren't enough.

Ok, does this mean you agree with all incarnations of Meliodas' first marks being a 2x multiplier, or just the pre-Unsealed version?

Nobody actually has the amp except Meliodas and Zeldris, whose Demon Marks are visually and functionally similar.

The author litteraly classify the demon marks generalising them to every demons they all share this power as long as they are a part of the clan

Tristan too would scale
And any demon would too

 

[ByAsura]

Where's that statement?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

It stacks, but it's about multiplier rules allowing them to stack to the same extent.

Can you clarify what you mean>

It's not an arbitrary assumption, it's just via a feats that scale 2nd Mark to a 2x power amp (going from being weaker than Chandler, Cusack and Vessel Ludoshel to surpassing OG Demon). But feats apparently aren't enough.

Does 1st Demon Mark Meliodas = 1st Demon Mark Zeldris in that movie?

Ok, does this mean you agree with all incarnations of Meliodas' first marks being a 2x multiplier, or just the pre-Unsealed version?

I agree with all keys of Meliodas that using a Demon Mark is at least 2x above his Base Form. I don't agree that his 2nd Demon Mark is a 2x amp on top of his 1st Demon Mark. For example...

Base Meliodas = 1 Megaton

1st Demon Mark Meliodas = 2 Megatons

2nd Demon Mark Meliodas = At least 2 Megatons

3rd Demon Mark Meliodas = At least 2 Megatons

I agree to this^

I agree that him using a Demon Mark is ALWAYS at least 2x above his Base Form, I don't agree with the following...

Base Meliodas = 1 Megaton

1st Demon Mark Meliodas = 2 Megatons

2nd Demon Mark Meliodas = 4 Megatons

3rd Demon Mark Meliodas = 6 Megatons

I don't agree with this^

Nobody actually has the amp except Meliodas and Zeldris, whose Demon Marks are functionally similar in Cursed By Light.

Here's another issue I have with this. Zeldris' 2nd Demon Mark does not multiply his physical speed or attack power at all. That isn't what's being said. What's said is that the speed of the Ominous Nebula is doubled. That's all. This does not translate to physicals ot attack power. So this doesn't at all support a 2nd Demon Mark being 2x to Attack Power and Speed. And without a direct statement, it cannot be a multiplier. You can double the speed of Ominous Nebula on the profile, that's fine, but not Zeldris' or anyone else's physical speed, and certainly not their attack power. 2nd Demon Mark Zeldris being above the OG Demon while his 1st Demon Mark is below both Chandler and Cusack doesn't mean that a multiplier can be applied either since that's an isolated incident. That's not how the multiplier rules work. I can give many examples to this specific issue.

During Enies Lobby, Gear 2nd Luffy's Jet Pistol does more damage to Lucci than his Base Bazooka. A Base Bazooka is 2x Luffy's regular AP, so we scale Gear 2nd Luffy more than 2x above his Base Form. However we do not then therefore say that Gear 2nd is ALWAYS a Multiplier of 2x to his Base Form. This is the same sort of situation, so it doesn't apply.

 

[Makai641001]

Where's that statement?

I’ve sent the translation of one of the side texts about Tristan earlier

 

[ByAsura]

Second? It was stated his the second demon mark are even greater than double.

That's referring to Meliodas' combat class compared to Fraudrin. Base Meliodas' power level there was 60k, and the Demon Mark increased it further, while Fraudrin was only 31k.

My fellas dude why is that nesccesary stated by multiplier? doesn't that how multiplier works?

It's about applying the multiplier to other characters/incarnations of Meliodas, not simply having multipliers scale to other characters.

Do you even ever found directly statement like that in other verse?

Other verses don't matter here. If there's no direct statements in those other verses, they'd also need to be downgraded.

I agree with all keys of Meliodas that using a Demon Mark is at least 2x above his Base Form.

That's what I was asking.

Here's another issue I have with this. Zeldris' 2nd Demon Mark does not multiply his physical speed or attack power at all. That isn't what's being said.

Ominous Nebula is just Zeldris' darkness being revolved at high speed to create a vortex, so it'd scale to physical speed.