NNT AP Revision

[Makai641001]

Actually wouldn't AM Meliodas be 20.61 Tera and with enchantment, be 206.1 Tera?

Yeah He would normally

No it’s me correcting you on blatant misinfo that we treat Renji’s Bankai as a speed amp.

You don’t

Massively Hypersonic (Even faster than before after training during the 17 month timeskip, comparable to Hisagi) | At least Massively Hypersonic (Much faster than before)

Also Bankai will get revised as stated by a Bleach supporter earlier
Else quantify for me the speed amp of a Bankai in private messages not here this thread isn’t about Bleach and i apologize for briging this even though it was just an exemple about What i and Asura were talking about

Bringing in other verses really is annoying, the thread is about NNT not Bleach

agreed sorry

@ByAsura @DemonGodMitchAubin @DarkDragonMedeus

Have you reached a consensus regarding any issues here?

Not on everything We are discussing a few things.

Also Mael is repeatedly stated to be the strongest fighter in the godeses clan so he should be far stronger than Elizabeth and comparable/equal to AM Meliodas

And narratively he was used by Gowther to get the balance back when Prime Mel switched sides meaning he would have some relevance to Prime Mel

 

[speedster352]

And narratively he was used by Gowther to get the balance back when Prime Mel switched sides meaning he would have some relevance to Prime Mel

Mael should get the 2x amp scaling to Assualt mode Meliodas as his equal

 

[speedster352]

Mael should get the 2x amp scaling to Assualt mode Meliodas as his equal

And above the indura massively

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You don’t

We don't

Also Bankai will get revised as stated by a Bleach supporter earlier
Else quantify for me the speed amp of a Bankai in private messages not here this thread isn’t about Bleach and i apologize for briging this even though it was just an exemple about What i and Asura were talking about

That Bleach supporter was me yes. The speed value in those is the same value, if it were 5x he'd be MHS+. No worries, I just didn't want Bleach to be used as an incorrect precedent for something based upon misinfo and that lead to a bigger headache for both verses down the road. I'll cease this conversation now to halt any further derailment.

 

[ByAsura]

+Shown to survive the FC’d attack bounced back by the Perfect cube. (We have new arguments regarding this)

Not really. Like I said, they don't have enough surface area.

Also, trust me, these arguments aren't remotely new.

Given what you said about the translation as well, PC just rebounds forces directed at it.

+Tristan’s exemple (With a good gap between what’s shown for both situations)

Why Tristan? Tristan doesn't have Assault Mode.

+AM narratively being the demon power pushed to a greater extent than simple demon mark etc…

That just means he's stronger than 2nd Mark to an unknown extent.

Actually wouldn't AM Meliodas be 20.61 Tera and with enchantment, be 206.1 Tera?

Oof, you're right. I guess it's just substantiation for the new scaling, then.

Also Mael is repeatedly stated to be the strongest fighter in the godeses clan so he should be far stronger than Elizabeth and comparable/equal to AM Meliodas

And above the indura massively

Maybe when it's noon or really close, but 2nd Mark Meliodas (who strongly implied the Induras would be too much) has defeated him in combat and Elizabeth is frequently stated to be as strong or stronger.

And narratively he was used by Gowther to get the balance back when Prime Mel switched sides meaning he would have some relevance to Prime Mel

They're definitely close Near-Noon, but Gowther and Mael admit that either Ludoshel or Elizabeth could have filled that gap. Demon Gowther chose Mael because he killed his lover.

So, while changing the balance of power for an entire clan is insanely impressive, it's portrayed as something that's not too far below 2nd Mark Meliodas.

 

[Majinere566]

Got an idea that would intertwine with 4kota

Chaos Melascula states that not even Post Resurrection Meliodas could escape gloom cocoon, but he pierces it in his Goddess eyes form so he should be at least 20.61 Tera and needed an enchantment to at least carve it out so with enchantment he should be at 41.22Tera opposed to AM Meliodas who completely obliterated so AM Meli>Enchanted Tristan

Thoughts?

 

[ByAsura]

Her cocoon was altered and upgraded due to the Chaos amp, so I disagree.

 

[Majinere566]

Thought the Chaos additions just let's the gloom cocoon destroy both body and soul

But she still mentions Meliodas inability to escape even after it's altercation

 

[ByAsura]

I suppose that's fair.

 

[Majinere566]

Got a question for enchantment

Lancelot gives us a range for non destroyer type enchantment, so is it okay to use the mean of 2 and 3 or just use 2 as a baseline?

 

[ByAsura]

I'd just say use 2x as a baseline.

 

[speedster352]

I suppose that's fair.

So does Am get 2x again? What does the scaling chain look like now?

 

[speedster352]

Maybe when it's noon or really close, but 2nd Mark Meliodas (who strongly implied the Induras would be too much) has defeated him in combat and Elizabeth is frequently stated to be as strong or stronger.

Mael should be 2x stronger scaling to AM Meliodas not Elizabeth

 

[ByAsura]

I think that's fine for Mael's stronger forms, but not the one that fought OG Demon.

 

[speedster352]

I think that's fine for Mael's stronger forms, but not the one that fought OG Demon.

He one shotted the crisis amp OD though but I can see we’re you coming from. Also how’s life?

 

[ByAsura]

Life's fine.

Also, Prime Assault Mode is supposed to be the strongest of the Commandments. Mael, although certainly stronger, wasn't that superior to Zeldris.

 

[speedster352]

Fine.

What does the scaling chain look like now with the demon multipliers accepted again and enchantment multipliers? Did you work on the sandbox and all the enchantment list in nnt/4koa?

 

[speedster352]

Life's fine.

Also, Prime Assault Mode is supposed to be the strongest of the Commandments. Mael, although certainly stronger, wasn't that superior to Zeldris.

That was Afternoon Mael further proving that Mael matches Meliodas at noon since they were stated to be equals numerous times. Afternoon Mael should still be 2x stronger than crisis amp OD for the oneshot.

 

[ByAsura]

Somewhat, but Majin is taking on the Enchantment list, and we're in the process of changing up the scaling chain rn.

That was Afternoon Mael further proving that Mael matches Meliodas at noon since they were stated to be equals numerous times.

My point was that afternoon Mael shouldn't scale to him. Again, Near-Noon Mael is fine (although I'm iffy on the actual quotes, as I said before).

Afternoon Mael should still be 2x stronger than crisis amp OD for the oneshot.

Random upscaling.

 

[Testarossa002]

Afternoon Mael should still be 2x stronger than crisis amp OD for the oneshot.

You know, that's not how it works

 

[speedster352]

Somewhat, but Majin is taking on the Enchantment list, and we're in the process of changing up the scaling chain rn.

My point was that afternoon Mael shouldn't scale to him. Again, Near-Noon Mael is fine (although I'm iffy on the actual quotes, as I said before).

Random upscaling.

So what now since demon mark Multipliers and Assualt mode multiplers can be used again.

 

[ByAsura]

I don't think we can use the Assault Mode multipliers, just this one instance.

 

[speedster352]

I don't think we can use the Assault Mode multipliers, just this one instance.

What do you mean? We have proof that it should at least be 2x scaling to enchantment Tristian it would be weird to just use it for one instance when it’s still a 2x Multiplier also do these multiplers affect the speed scaling?

 

[ByAsura]

I said just this one instance, as in it's fine to scale Meliodas to Tristan here, but probably nowhere else.

To put it simply, I don't think we can apply it to all versions of Meliodas with Assault Mode (i.e Post-Purgatory) and his speed due to multiplier rules.

 

[speedster352]

I said just this one instance, as in it's fine to scale Meliodas to Tristan here, but probably nowhere else.

To put it simply, I don't think we can apply it to all versions of Meliodas with Assault Mode (i.e Post-Purgatory) and his speed due to multiplier rules.

I still don’t get it since it’s still a 2x amp what changes nothing it allowed him to blitz UTO Escanor who was casually blitzing PDK even in the one. What about prime assault mode Meliodas?

 

[ByAsura]

We've already covered that. Escanor keeps up with him perfectly later, Meliodas was fighting alongside all of the Sins off-screen, and we don't see PDK getting blitzed.

Prime Assault Mode wouldn't apply.

 

[Testarossa002]

I said just this one instance, as in it's fine to scale Meliodas to Tristan here, but probably nowhere else.

To put it simply, I don't think we can apply it to all versions of Meliodas with Assault Mode (i.e Post-Purgatory) and his speed due to multiplier rules.

Maybe you can pause this thread and make a separate one addressing all the multiplier issues

 

[speedster352]

We've already covered that. Escanor keeps up with him perfectly later, Meliodas was fighting alongside all of the Sins off-screen, and we don't see PDK getting blitzed.

Prime Assault Mode wouldn't apply.

You mean the sins attacks they all kept us so not a good argument. Here Also Past Meliodas assualt mode is the exact same likely stronger so maybe 3x can work for prime Meliodas assualt next post purgatory Meliodas Am should be 2x too.

 

[ByAsura]

All of the Sins also kept up with Meliodas at this speed, so not a good argument.

You say he was blitzed, and yet this outright shows Escanor reacting to Meliodas while he's moving.

All the other stuff is, as I said before, still off-screen and with the Sins right behind him at all times.

Past Meliodas is not stronger than Post-Purgatory Meliodas. Post-Purgatory Meliodas is way stronger than the likes of Ludoshel and Mael in his base alone, whereas Prime Meliodas needs his Demon Marks and is on par with the Defensive Battle for Liones arc Ten Commandments in his base form.

Also, think about it for literally just a moment; you're claiming Assault Mode Meliodas is in the same league as UTO Escanor and PDK. So how could someone weaker than 50% DK be stronger?

 

[speedster352]

All of the Sins also kept up with Meliodas at this speed, so not a good argument.

You say he was blitzed, and yet this outright shows Escanor reacting to Meliodas while he's moving.

All the other stuff is, as I said before, still off-screen and with the Sins right behind him at all times.

Past Meliodas is not stronger than Post-Purgatory Meliodas. Post-Purgatory Meliodas is way stronger than the likes of Ludoshel and Mael in his base alone, whereas Prime Meliodas needs his Demon Marks.

Also, think about it for literally just a moment; you're claiming Assault Mode Meliodas is in the same league as UTO Escanor and PDK. So how could someone weaker than 50% DK be stronger?

I was talking about assualt mode proficiency. His prime assualt mode was way stronger than his post revival one so that should at least get a 2 to 3 amp and his post purgatory assault mode is far greater than previously I am leaNing towards 3x times for both his prime and post purgatory. Cool that’s just friendship amps and stuff nothing to scale their. The one Escanor blitz PDK and UTO blitz him very badly and was blitz by AM Meliodas he was even surprised at his speed keep that in mind and stop using the others sins to down play.

 

[speedster352]

Yeah He would normally



You don’t

Also Bankai will get revised as stated by a Bleach supporter earlier
Else quantify for me the speed amp of a Bankai in private messages not here this thread isn’t about Bleach and i apologize for briging this even though it was just an exemple about What i and Asura were talking about



agreed sorry


Not on everything We are discussing a few things.



And narratively he was used by Gowther to get the balance back when Prime Mel switched sides meaning he would have some relevance to Prime Mel

I need some help here. Byashura is saying Am multipliers can only be used for post revival Meliodas

 

[ByAsura]

I was talking about assualt mode proficiency.

Why? If anything, Meliodas had 3,000 years to become more accustomed to Assault Mode, and even used it against Escanor in the past.

His prime assualt mode was way stronger than his post revival one so that should at least get a 2 to 3 amp and his post purgatory assault mode is far greater than previously

Are you claiming it's stronger AP wise, or a larger amp?

I am leaNing towards 3x times for both his prime and post purgatory.

Why though?

Cool that’s just friendship amps and stuff nothing to scale their.

You mean to say they suddenly got a friendship amp that skyrocketed them from being vastly inferior to Chandler to surpassing Demon King, despite none of the Sins except Ban, King, Meliodas and Escanor actually doing any harm to DK throughout the entire fight?

Nice head canon. Not the stuff you like to call head canon either, actual head canon.

Also, by your logic, wouldn't Meliodas of people have gotten a friendship amp?

The one Escanor blitz PDK

No he didn't. That's just called hitting someone. They were equal.

I guess PDK can blitz Escanor now, huh?

and UTO blitz him very badly

What you failed to include in that scan was the fact that PDK's arm was literally stuck inside Escanor and he couldn't move.

In fact, Escanor would have got tagged if Meliodas didn't counter vanish an attack, and was still getting hits on Escanor while stuck.

and was blitz by AM Meliodas he was even surprised at his speed keep that in mind

I literally showed the scan of him not getting blitzed by Escanor, just outsped while moving at a pace inferior to all the Sins.

stop using the others sins to down play.

Bruh, you were literally doing that. Yet when I do it, it's downplay.

You mean the sins attacks they all kept us so not a good argument.

 

[Testarossa002]

His prime assualt mode was way stronger than his post revival one so that should at least get a 2 to 3 amp and his post purgatory assault mode is far greater than previously I am leaNing towards 3x times for both his prime and post purgatory.

Again, not how it works
There has to be a stated quantifiable increase in stats to become times whatever

 

[Makai641001]

We don't


That Bleach supporter was me yes. The speed value in those is the same value, if it were 5x he'd be MHS+. No worries, I just didn't want Bleach to be used as an incorrect precedent for something based upon misinfo and that lead to a bigger headache for both verses down the road. I'll cease this conversation now to halt any further derailment.

Okay thank you.

Mael should get the 2x amp scaling to Assualt mode Meliodas as his equal

i think he should scale too but Maybe We are forgetting something

 

[ByAsura]

i think he should scale too but Maybe We are forgetting something

He should, and it's fine to do so.

My argument is just that this just applies to forms of Mael that were very close to noon, since he's weaker than Elizabeth, comparable to 2nd Mark and only a bit above Zeldris in the series.

This is already on the profiles, btw.

Anyway, I'm off to bed.

 

[Makai641001]

Not really. Like I said, they don't have enough surface area.

Also, trust me, these arguments aren't remotely new.

Given what you said about the translation as well, PC just rebounds forces directed at it.

All forces not Just the explosion are striking them back going with what’s said so idk

Why Tristan? Tristan doesn't have Assault Mode.

No it was about What you were using in the OP that can be a back up even though we doubt this feat (when he is alone)

That just means he's stronger than 2nd Mark to an unknown extent.

The powergap between this form and the others is bigger and pushed to it’s max

Oof, you're right. I guess it's just substantiation for the new scaling, then.

Yeeeey

Maybe when it's noon or really close, but 2nd Mark Meliodas (who strongly implied the Induras would be too much) has defeated him in combat and Elizabeth is frequently stated to be as strong or stronger.

I honestly think it’s at peak noon Yeah but it’s not enough

They're definitely close Near-Noon, but Gowther and Mael admit that either Ludoshel or Elizabeth could have filled that gap. Demon Gowther chose Mael because he killed his lover.

Yeah

So, while changing the balance of power for an entire clan is insanely impressive, it's portrayed as something that's not too far below 2nd Mark Meliodas.

Would that change something to the current scaling ?

 

[Makai641001]

He should, and it's fine to do so.

My argument is just that this just applies to forms of Mael that were very close to noon, since he's weaker than Elizabeth, comparable to 2nd Mark and only a bit above Zeldris in the series.

This is already on the profiles, btw.

Anyway, I'm off to bed.

Good night

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

My argument is just that this just applies to forms of Mael that were very close to noon

This would be the case since he doesn't actually clear Ludoshel until it's near noon.

 

[Makai641001]

This would be the case since he doesn't actually clear Ludoshel until it's near noon.

Yeah i think we already will apply it to profiles but it won’t really help the scaling chain

(Goated PFP)

 

[ByAsura]

All forces not Just the explosion are striking them back going with what’s said so idk

That’s not what I was really saying. Also, the attack exploded against the cube and was reflected, so the forces is the explosion (I was never saying the blast didn’t represent 100% of the energy).

As you said here, it struck back at them. The fact that the repelled power hits both of them is proof that neither took the full brunt of the attack.

No it was about What you were using in the OP that can be a back up even though we doubt this feat (when he is alone)

Oh, ok.

The powergap between this form and the others is bigger and pushed to it’s max

Pushed to the max would really just indicate that it’s above the other forms.