NNT AP Revision

[ByAsura]

I'm not the one deciding that every piece of counter evidence just falls under head canon.

Scans that I already saw, gave and addressed.

 

[speedster352]

Scans that I already saw, gave and addressed.

With head canon? I mean with all the clout you have everyone will agree with you. Anyway how’s life?

 

[ByAsura]

With head canon?

Without headcanon, I just used the scans you conveniently omitted.

I mean with all the clout you have everyone will agree with you.

Clout? Really? It's a powerscaling wiki, dude. Calm down.

Anyway, this is getting tiresome and I have to potentially remove a bunch of other multipliers now, so I'm just moving on.

 

[speedster352]

Without headcanon, I just used the scans you conveniently omitted.

Clout? Really? It's a powerscaling wiki, dude.

Anyway, this is getting tiresome and I have to potentially remove a bunch of other multipliers now, so I'm just moving on.

So what’s left at this point? Did you find any new multipliers? Also are you done with sandbox and enchainment list? How’s life?

 

[ByAsura]

I'm not done with the sandbox and enchantment list because we're revising a bunch of multipliers here.

Life is fine.

 

[Makai641001]

Enchanter is, but none of Meliodas' forms have official multipliers.

Demon mark 2 has a 2x statement tho

i agree with the use of AM multiplier It seems pretty consistant with the lore

 

[ByAsura]

Demon mark 2 has a 2x statement tho

I brought that up. But it only applies to speed, not speed and power.

Anyway, I'm going to ask some staff about this in a few minutes.

 

[Makai641001]

Oof, you're right. I'll have to remove that Assault Mode multiplier, then.

• Multipliers come from direct statements instead of being reasoned from something else.

I've shown in the OP where they're accepted, so I'll just outline them here.

Basically

1st Demon Mark scales well above a somewhat weakened Grey Hendrickson, who's explicitly Red Demon Hendrickson + a Gray Demon added together. Additionally, he greatly overwhelmed Snatch-amped Ban in speed and power, who added all of Meliodas' speed and power to his own (Ban normally is half as strong as Meliodas in the raws, but faster than him).

Fyi, Galand was markedly inferior, but not vastly, to Ban after he stole over half Galand's strength + some fodder's power. So Snatch/Physical Hunt are additive in both feats and statements.

2nd Demon Mark Zeldris went from being weaker than Chandler and Cusack in his first mark, to surpassing an amped fusion of Chandler and Cusack (explicitly a being they were split in half from), and outright doubled the speed of Ominous Nebula's vacuum by transforming.

So, it's from a combination of consistency, statements and direct scaling that's already been accepted. I've seen similar scaling on lots of other profiles.

Going From the same page extra evidences are not forbidden if they are consistant

However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted. The amount of extra evidence one has to provide to get larger multipliers accepted is proportional to the size of the multiplier.

 

[ByAsura]

That's not a good statement. It just applies to speed.

 

[Makai641001]

I brought that up. But it only applies to speed, not speed and power.

Anyway, I'm going to ask some staff about this in a few minutes.

It’s weird it Also amps power greatly as shown with demon mark covering Ban + Meli’s strengths one shotting Ban too which would be a 2x gap in power too Just saying it concerns speed only is delusional

 

[ByAsura]

This is just the multiplier itself. He'd still be 2x stronger than base in this specific key, but it's about applying the Demon Mark multipliers to his other keys for significantly higher statements.

Unfortunately, it potentially needs a statement about power.

Technically, it'd be a 1.5x gap in power due to Ban being weaker, but Mel harming Hendrickson counts as 2x. Like I said, it's just about rules on applying that exact multiplier to every other key.

 

[Le'garde273]

I brought that up. But it only applies to speed, not speed and power.

Anyway, I'm going to ask some staff about this in a few minutes.

When he use it when he fight ban, kind a 3 times (no statement) tbh

Ban absorb entire meliodas physical and speed => Meliodas lying down no longer has strength => *actived demon mark and casually stomp and blitz ban who already absorb meliodas power and speed before even before he could react.

But it's contradicted with zeldris who stated by merlin only give double than before

 

[ByAsura]

Meliodas didn't have no strength after transforming into a Demon. He explicitly recovered.

Also, like I said above, it's not about that specific feat being invalid. It's perfectly valid, in fact. It's about applying a 2x multiplier to all of Meliodas' keys.

 

[Makai641001]

This is just the multiplier itself. He'd still be 2x stronger than base in this specific key, but it's about applying the Demon Mark multipliers to his other keys for significantly higher statements.

Unfortunately, it potentially needs a statement about power.

Technically, it'd be a 1.5x gap in power due to Ban being weaker, but Mel harming Hendrickson counts as 2x. Like I said, it's just about rules on applying that exact multiplier to every other key.

Then speed should be > 2x since Ban is faster to the same extent than Mel is stronger

Yeah i see how bad is it for the scaling chain ? You worked really hard for this Just for a dumb rule to shit on all of this that’s rude

Hope we’ll get these statements soon in 4kota

 

[Testarossa002]

It’s weird it Also amps power greatly as shown with demon mark covering Ban + Meli’s strengths one shotting Ban too which would be a 2x gap in power too Just saying it concerns speed only is delusional

You'll be treading on shaky grounds if you're applying a multiplier for one stat when the statement is mentioning another stat

 

[Makai641001]

You'll be treading on shaky grounds if you're applying a multiplier for one stat when the statement is mentioning another stat

Said power amp affects his AP too in a consistant way lots of other verses work like this

 

[speedster352]

I brought that up. But it only applies to speed, not speed and power.

Anyway, I'm going to ask some staff about this in a few minutes.

No ON did more damage when Zeldris used 2nd demon mark it one shotted everyone.

 

[Makai641001]

I have a question then

One should also consider which statistic a multiplier applies to. If a character just gets 10 times more powerful, then that doesn't necessarily means that all of its statistics are multiplied by 10. For example could a fiction in principle have a character become a 10 times more dangerous fighter just by increasing his combat technique, with only minor increases in stats. A more classical scenario is one where a characters strength increases by some multiplier, but their speed is untouched.

So Bleach using 5x multipliers for Both AP and speed is Wrong ?
We don’t know if this 5x multiplier apply 5x to speed and 5x to power rather Ichigo’s multiplier is greatly based on speed à large part of this 5x would then Go to speed and a little part of the same 5x to AP but it’s unquantifiable therefore Bleach shouldn’t use multipliers since they assume Both stats are amped the same way in the same quantity

 

[ByAsura]

Yeah, but we need a statement about power, not just a demonstration that doesn't even prove a 2x amp.

 

[speedster352]

You'll be treading on shaky grounds if you're applying a multiplier for one stat when the statement is mentioning another stat

Ban absorbed Meliodas ap and speed that what snatch does. And Meliodas one shotted him with demon mark. And cursed by the light shows that 2nd Demon mark is also 2x in strength and speed for overpowering dubs and dahlia.

 

[ByAsura]

So Bleach using 5x multipliers for Both AP and speed is Wrong ?
We don’t know if this 5x multiplier apply 5x to speed and 5x to power rather Ichigo’s multiplier is greatly based on speed à large part of this 5x would then Go to speed and a little part of the same 5x to AP but it’s unquantifiable therefore Bleach shouldn’t use multipliers since they assume Both stats are amped the same way in the same quantity

Isn't 5x directly stated?

 

[speedster352]

Yeah, but we need a statement about power, not just a demonstration that doesn't even prove a 2x amp.

Yeah Merlin in the raws says the intensity increased by 2x and it was one shotting everyone even the one had trouble.

 

[speedster352]

Isn't 5x directly stated?

That’s only for strength but they apply it for speed.

 

[ByAsura]

I'm pretty sure she said speed in the raws, but I'll check.

That’s only for strength but they apply it for speed.

I'll take your word for that.

But it just means Bleach has to get downgraded, not that NNT can remain the way it is.

 

[Makai641001]

No ON did more damage when Zeldris used 2nd demon mark it one shotted everyone.

What they say is that they should get « higher » ratings rather than doubling the stats
Which is really weird going with What’s on other verse
It will basically destroy the whole speed scaling chain and a good part of the AP chain

 

[ByAsura]

@Makai Can you translate Merlin's line here, please?

 

[Makai641001]

Isn't 5x directly stated?

It is but said 5 x multiplier separate speed and AP so as an exemple Ichigo’s speed could be amped by 3 and his AP by 2 since his Speed is the main focus of his Bankai iirc therefore it’s impossible to quantify

 

[speedster352]

@Makai Can you translate Merlin's line here, please?

Island level (Zeldris's 2nd Demon Mark multiplies the user's power), higher with God (Kept up with and bruised a casual Afternoon Mael),

 

[Makai641001]

@Makai Can you translate Merlin's line here, please?

It says « Succion speed has doubled »

 

[ByAsura]

Island level (Zeldris's 2nd Demon Mark multiplies the user's power), higher with God (Kept up with and bruised a casual Afternoon Mael),

Unfortunately, as Makai just showed, the statement is incorrectly translated.

 

[speedster352]

Unfortunately, as Makai just showed, the statement is incorrectly translated.

Just incorporate enchantment multipliers and the scaling chain will work. We can figure out speed later. It very obvious 2nd demon mark doubled Zeldris strength since he was comparable to original demon and even mael.

 

[ByAsura]

Aside from King, there's literally 1 instance in which a character actually withstands a boosted attack from another character.

 

[speedster352]

Aside from King, there's literally 1 instance in which a character actually withstands a boosted attack from another character.

There could be a few a more

 

[ByAsura]

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama Sorry to bother you, but I need some assistance with some multiplier stuff since (IIRC) you three were heavily involved in the multiplier thread.

Itachi brought up that some of the multipliers may be invalidated by the multiplier rules (namely, the fact that multipliers have to be stated to be consistent). So I need another opinion on the multipliers' validity.

Firstly, there's the Demon Mark multiplier. For reference, 1st Mark is the regular Demon Mark, and 2nd Mark is a larger and more powerful amp.

• Zeldris' 2nd Mark explicitly doubled the speed of his 2nd Mark's Ominous Nebula (which is based on simply revolving his attacks at an extremely high rate to create a vacuum). Additionally, Zeldris' 2nd Mark was illustrated as being superior to Original Demon, who is a fusion of two beings that were a bit superior to his 1st Mark.
• Demon Meliodas' 1st Mark has displayed a 2x speed and power multiplier on two occasions;
  • Firstly it caved in a somewhat (but not very heavily, as he tanked attacks from characters much stronger than Meliodas right after) weakened Hendrickson's chest. Hendrickson here added the power of a Grey Demon to his own and could easily knock out Gilthunder, who's withstood attacks on par with Meliodas being reflected back at him with more than twice the power (see definition of several).
  • Secondly, he obliterated Snatch-amped Ban, who was already faster than Meliodas before explicitly adding Meliodas' speed and power to his own with Snatch.

So that's a partial statement and consistency. Is this enough for applying a 2x multiplier to all their keys, or is it only applicable to the specific keys in this instance?

Secondly, there's the goddess amp. Basically, Ludoshel went from doing no damage to Cusack and Chandler to heavily damaging amped an amped Original Demon (Original Demon explicitly being Chandler + Cusack) in a weakened state after he stopped possessing his vessel. Ludoshel's vessel was explicitly the perfect match for his magic power, so my logic was that all Goddesses should be 2x stronger than their vessels (which are explicitly weaker than Goddesses themselves in-universe).

Is this applicable?

 

[ByAsura]

There could be a few a more

I'll have to go through the manga again.

 

[speedster352]

865.62 teratons (Large Country level+).

This is supposed to be 6a since it starts at 700

 

[ByAsura]

You're right. My mistake.

 

[Makai641001]

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama Sorry to bother you, but I need some assistance with some multiplier stuff since (IIRC) you three were heavily involved in the multiplier thread.

Itachi brought up that some of the multipliers may be invalidated by the multiplier rules (namely, the fact that multipliers have to be stated to be consistent). So I need another opinion on the multipliers' validity.

Firstly, there's the Demon Mark multiplier. For reference, 1st Mark is the regular Demon Mark, and 2nd Mark is a larger and more powerful amp.

• Zeldris' 2nd Mark explicitly doubled the speed of his 2nd Mark's Ominous Nebula (which is based on simply revolving his attacks at an extremely high rate to create a vacuum). Additionally, Zeldris' 2nd Mark was illustrated as being superior to Original Demon, who is a fusion of two beings that were a bit superior to his 1st Mark.
• Demon Meliodas' 1st Mark has displayed a 2x speed and power multiplier on two occasions;
  • Firstly it caved in a somewhat (but not very heavily, as he tanked attacks from characters much stronger than Meliodas right after) weakened Hendrickson's chest. Hendrickson here added the power of a Grey Demon to his own and could easily knock out Gilthunder, who's withstood attacks on par with Meliodas being reflected back at him with more than twice the power (see definition of several).
  • Secondly, he obliterated Snatch-amped Ban, who was already faster than Meliodas before explicitly adding Meliodas' speed and power to his own with Snatch.

So that's a partial statement and consistency. Is this enough for applying a 2x multiplier to all their keys, or is it only applicable to the specific keys in this instance?

Secondly, there's the goddess amp. Basically, Ludoshel went from doing no damage to Cusack and Chandler to heavily damaging amped an amped Original Demon (Original Demon explicitly being Chandler + Cusack) in a weakened state after he stopped possessing his vessel. Ludoshel's vessel was explicitly the perfect match for his magic power, so my logic was that all Goddesses should be 2x stronger than their vessels (which are explicitly weaker than Goddesses themselves in-universe).

Is this applicable?

It is please tell me it is

 

[speedster352]

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama Sorry to bother you, but I need some assistance with some multiplier stuff since (IIRC) you three were heavily involved in the multiplier thread.

Itachi brought up that some of the multipliers may be invalidated by the multiplier rules (namely, the fact that multipliers have to be stated to be consistent). So I need another opinion on the multipliers' validity.

Firstly, there's the Demon Mark multiplier. For reference, 1st Mark is the regular Demon Mark, and 2nd Mark is a larger and more powerful amp.

• Zeldris' 2nd Mark explicitly doubled the speed of his 2nd Mark's Ominous Nebula (which is based on simply revolving his attacks at an extremely high rate to create a vacuum). Additionally, Zeldris' 2nd Mark was illustrated as being superior to Original Demon, who is a fusion of two beings that were a bit superior to his 1st Mark.
• Demon Meliodas' 1st Mark has displayed a 2x speed and power multiplier on two occasions;
  • Firstly it caved in a somewhat (but not very heavily, as he tanked attacks from characters much stronger than Meliodas right after) weakened Hendrickson's chest. Hendrickson here added the power of a Grey Demon to his own and could easily knock out Gilthunder, who's withstood attacks on par with Meliodas being reflected back at him with more than twice the power (see definition of several).
  • Secondly, he obliterated Snatch-amped Ban, who was already faster than Meliodas before explicitly adding Meliodas' speed and power to his own with Snatch.

So that's a partial statement and consistency. Is this enough for applying a 2x multiplier to all their keys, or is it only applicable to the specific keys in this instance?

Secondly, there's the goddess amp. Basically, Ludoshel went from doing no damage to Cusack and Chandler to heavily damaging amped an amped Original Demon (Original Demon explicitly being Chandler + Cusack) in a weakened state after he stopped possessing his vessel. Ludoshel's vessel was explicitly the perfect match for his magic power, so my logic was that all Goddesses should be 2x stronger than their vessels (which are explicitly weaker than Goddesses themselves in-universe).

Is this applicable?

This makes sense also wouldn’t prime Ludoceil be stronger than astral body? Can that be a 2x amp?

 

[Makai641001]

This is supposed to be 6a since it starts at 700

Omg Asura showing clear bias against NNT lowballing it all the time