Ninjago's Tiering Problem

[Sparkive]

What I ultimately meant is that it is common for the verse to scale from a single feat/calc despite the fact that if you ”ignore” that feat, the verse would be significantly lower.

The only case I remember is Goku's (I'm not going to review verses I don't know for arguments), but that's not a good example, the series makes it clear that Goku is stronger than he was in Z at that point. (or at least until Kid Buu), but it is trashed by Bill, believing that not even fused could do anything, then he shows you that no one could do anything to the character, including some who should be above Goku, and then the universal feat It belongs to a transformation that he did not have access to previously and that is not comparable to anything that had come before to finally make Goku absorb him in his base form (all this with a new type of Ki), and then they bring back feats of a similar magnitude as changing the color of an infinite space or destroying dimensions with blows (although merged)

Zane stated that Green Time Blade can warp the very fabric of the space-time. They even emphasize that it is very powerful, and is supposed to be though.

I have my doubts about taking that literally, but I would have to review season 7 and right now I'm supposed to be doing a clay homework for University

I would've

And it's because of things like that that you were one of my favorites.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The only case I remember is Goku's…

I never said it was Goku though, but to note, once again, GWs altogether displayed normal AP feat only in that particular scene, all other usages were either Megaweapon HAX (not AP), or killing Great Devourer in his weak spot (no clue how that would downgrade the weapons)

I have my doubts about taking that literally, but I would have to review season 7 and right now I'm supposed to be doing a clay homework for University

Fair enough, but note that Zane is an EXTREMELY reliable source of information.

 

[Minaaaa]

Counter Arguments​

There are some counter arguments against the downgrade that i want to address

Star Feat​

The GW never combined with the MW
This was said based off of, literally nothing. There’s no evidence to suggest they DIDN’T combine, given the literal NINE scans saying they combined with each other.

The Time Paradox
This point was used to argue that, “The GW destroyed the MW and fixed the time paradox”, when in reality, this doesn't really contradict anything. This is due to the GW and MW both going into space and exploding. Also with Tommy saying that it didn’t erase all events that happened and that the episode had no logic to it.

The MW is just hax
This point doesn’t make sense, since in a previous thread, the use of a UES was brought up. Meaning the hax would scale to their AP, making the feat an outlier as its previous feats were vastly weaker than making an entire star. As the series has never had a feat like this from its normal characters since this feat occurred and is the ONLY showing of power of this magnitude from the normal cast.

Mergequakes again​

Here we are once again with this feat

Realms sharing the same space
This notion of “closing a mergequake stops the realms from sharing the same space” is frankly, a lie and only seems to come from trying to get a higher tier. They not once in the show say that closing a mergequake does this. As stated previously, Mergequakes are just cracks in reality that show up where realms are sharing the same space, that's all they are. Just cracks in space-time, which closing one, doesn’t scale to AP. This is because a single mergequake, which is ALL the ninja are shown closing, arent affecting the entire universe by themselves. The ninja don't close mergequakes to stop them from sharing the same space, they close them to stop whatever is coming from them or to stop them from sucking people in (Shown here, here, and here).

As for the two Garmadon feats, him scaling to him is very iffy but alright (though mogra's up to rating would have to go, simply for the fact 5 moon teas was too much for him to handle)
As for him scaling to the oni, it should definitly be removed due to the oni not being 2-C

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Counter Arguments​

There are some counter arguments against the downgrade that i want to address

Star Feat​

The GW never combined with the MW
This was said based off of, literally nothing. There’s no evidence to suggest they DIDN’T combine, given the literal NINE scans saying they combined with each other.

Most of your evidence don't support any of your claims at all, also Colliding ≠ Combine

The Time Paradox
This point was used to argue that, “The GW destroyed the MW and fixed the time paradox”, when in reality, this doesn't really contradict anything. This is due to the GW and MW both going into space and exploding. Also with Tommy saying that it didn’t erase all events that happened and that the episode had no logic to it.

The GWs Acausality debunks this hard, also with the fact Lloyd was brought back to existance as well. WOG implies the MW became a star, and the show even shows us the star existing in the present at the end of the episode, meanwhile the normal GWs still fell on the comet

Counter Arguments​

The MW is just hax
This point doesn’t make sense, since in a previous thread, the use of a UES was brought up. Meaning the hax would scale to their AP, making the feat an outlier as its previous feats were vastly weaker than making an entire star. As the series has never had a feat like this from its normal characters since this feat occurred and is the ONLY showing of power of this magnitude from the normal cast.

You visibly don't know how UES works, and your not getting an outlier from comparing an individual GW to the power of the GWs togheter (a power FAR ABOVE an individual GW), and most of the MW/GWs feats consist of Life hax feats and Portal Creation which cannot be quantified, leaving only the Star AP feat and the Island creation feat as valid quantifiable feats

Mergequakes again​

Here we are once again with this feat

Realms sharing the same space
This notion of “closing a mergequake stops the realms from sharing the same space” is frankly, a lie and only seems to come from trying to get a higher tier. They not once in the show say that closing a mergequake does this. As stated previously, Mergequakes are just cracks in reality that show up where realms are sharing the same space, that's all they are. Just cracks in space-time, which closing one, doesn’t scale to AP. This is because a single mergequake, which is ALL the ninja are shown closing, arent affecting the entire universe by themselves.

Oh ye? I don't see the Realms involved merging anymore after the Mergequake was stopped

The ninja don't close mergequakes to stop them from sharing the same space, they close them to stop whatever is coming from them or to stop them from sucking people in (Shown here, here, and here).

They litterally implied twice that its what they are doing, also using the Mergequake Storm, a different event on the same scale as the Merge itself is not going to help you prove anything. Stopping a Mergequake means stopping the fusion of 2 Low 2-C structures, and the show states it TWICE, if they weren't affecting the Realms, their fusion would have happened

As for him scaling to the oni, it should definitly be removed due to the oni not being 2-C

Onis should scale to Firstbourne, who scale to Matriach, who scale to DR Lloyd and scale to the Mergequakes

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The Time Paradox
This point was used to argue that, “The GW destroyed the MW and fixed the time paradox”, when in reality, this doesn't really contradict anything. This is due to the GW and MW both going into space and exploding.

Golden Weapons did save its power as we see in Rebooted, when Nindroid is still erased from existence due to not being able to wield their power. If you assume it did contribute to the creation of star via its own power, then you suggest it still saved its power, thus effectively leading us to the fact that time paradox should not have been solved.

Also with Tommy saying that it didn’t erase all events that happened

Of course, Garmadon gaining Megaweapon and going back in time still happened. The destruction of Megaweapon simply solved this big time paradox due to what actually caused the time paradox losing its power.

and that the episode had no logic to it.

The fact that Megaweapon had to be destroyed in order for time paradox being successfully solved was the essential part of it.

The MW is just hax
This point doesn’t make sense, since in a previous thread, the use of a UES was brought up. Meaning the hax would scale to their AP, making the feat an outlier as its previous feats were vastly weaker than making an entire star.

One thing you don't realize is that resurrecting people, creating a portal to go back in time and making the exact versions of Ninja but with evil personality has essentially zero relationship to Attack Potency. You are simply comparing apples to oranges right now. And I doubt that you quite realize what UES means. Let me clear that for you:

“Universal Energy Systems are systems in which a feat, whether it is one of physical statistics (Striking Strength or Durability) or of supernatural powers (e.g. energy beams), would also scale to all other statistics. That means if such a character for instance demonstrates a Building level fireball spell, they would be assumed to have at least Building level Striking Strength, Attack Potency and Durability. If they have other spells, like for example water blades, they would be assumed to be able to output similar attack power with those spells.”

It simply means that if character A has shown to destroy a country by energy beam, it would scale to his Durability, Striking Strength and other attacks to have the same amount of Attack Potency. Same goes another way: if a character B is shown to destroy a country by a punch, we can assume that his spells have similar Attack Potency, as well as durability.

The problem is: HAX Garmadon displayed is NOT Attack Potency at ALL, as I said earlier. And it says that “physical statistics <-> supernatural powers such energy beams”. You cannot scale supernatural powers which logically cannot be used as Attack Potency to Attack Potency. Stop comparing apples to oranges.

As the series has never had a feat like this from its normal characters since this feat occurred and is the ONLY showing of power of this magnitude from the normal cast.

It was, in fact, the only time Golden Weapons altogether performed Attack Potency feat.

Realms sharing the same space
This notion of “closing a mergequake stops the realms from sharing the same space” is frankly, a lie and only seems to come from trying to get a higher tier. They not once in the show say that closing a mergequake does this. As stated previously, Mergequakes are just cracks in reality that show up where realms are sharing the same space, that's all they are. Just cracks in space-time, which closing one, doesn’t scale to AP. This is because a single mergequake, which is ALL the ninja are shown closing, arent affecting the entire universe by themselves. The ninja don't close mergequakes to stop them from sharing the same space, they close them to stop whatever is coming from them or to stop them from sucking people in (Shown here, here, and here).

I think you do not realize what logical deduction is. You do not have to be given everything straight up. The Mergequake is what occurs when two Realms are trying to share the same space. This means two Realms try the same space IS THE SAME as mergequake occuring. Closing mergequakes, aka stoping them from “occurring”, IS THE SAME as stoping Realms trying tl share the same space. That simple. Ah, and also don't forget how Arin even notes that Lloyd closing a Mergequake is “saving the world”.

As for the two Garmadon feats, him scaling to him is very iffy but alright (though mogra's up to rating would have to go, simply for the fact 5 moon teas was too much for him to handle)
As for him scaling to the oni, it should definitly be removed due to the oni not being 2-C

Omega is dependent on Mergequake feats scaling, via the rebunk which LloydBlitzed did. Garmadon scales to Omega.

 

[Minaaaa]

Most of your evidence don't support any of your claims at all, also Colliding ≠ Combine

Explain how they dont and please stop nitpicking arguments. ur literally saying "well it said collide so they didnt combine" ignoring all the other evidence.

The GWs Acausality debunks this hard, also with the fact Lloyd was brought back to existance as well. WOG implies the MW became a star, and the show even shows us the star existing in the present at the end of the episode, meanwhile the normal GWs still fell on the comet

How does this debunk it? and literally, this is only one scan, every other scan is against this.

You visibly don't know how UES works, and your not getting an outlier from comparing an individual GW to the power of the GWs togheter (a power FAR ABOVE an individual GW), and most of the MW/GWs feats consist of Life hax feats and Portal Creation which cannot be quantified, leaving only the Star AP feat and the Island creation feat as valid quantifiable feats

If its creation feats are vastly below the star feat, then its an outlier. by definition "An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power".

Oh ye? I don't see the Realms involved merging anymore after the Mergequake was stopped

What even is this point

They litterally implied twice that its what they are doing, also using the Mergequake Storm, a different event on the same scale as the Merge itself is not going to help you prove anything. Stopping a Mergequake means stopping the fusion of 2 Low 2-C structures, and the show states it TWICE, if they weren't affecting the Realms, their fusion would have happened

stopping a mergequake = closing the crack in reality, not stopping two realms from fusing (dont even know where u got the two realms part from)

Onis should scale to Firstbourne, who scale to Matriach, who scale to DR Lloyd and scale to the Mergequakes

If they arent low 2-c then this doesnt matter

 

[JJSliderman]

stopping a mergequake = closing the crack in reality, not stopping two realms from fusing (dont even know where u got the two realms part from)

Mergequakes only form because one realm is attempting to merge with another, this is established in the first episode. So, by closing the mergequake, it stops one universe from forcefully merging with another at a specific spot, meaning it directly counters the motion of the universe.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

How does this debunk it? and literally, this is only one scan, every other scan is against this.

When other scans are against it? I do not recall a single one saying that Megaweapon did not become a star. Even Tommy Andreasen said “The star exists in the present”…

If its creation feats are vastly below the star feat, then its an outlier.

It genuinely never created anything quantifiable, once again? All it did was:
1) Resurrecting Soto’s crew with their exact identities. This is Resurrection, not Creation.
2) Creation of portal that went back to time. Portals are not measurements of Attack Potency. His intention was also to stop Lloyd from training, and he didn’t look tired after doing that at all.
3) Making a crater. This was solely to stop Ninjas from winning race. His intentions were limited to that, so “wish-granting” did exactly that.
4) De-aging dinosaur and Ninjas. Again, that’s Age Manipulation which is not quantifiable. How are you going to scale it to Attack Potency? Like, 70 years back in time = wall level, 100000 years back in time = Star Level? And once again, he was not tired after this particular feat.
5) Making evil copies of the Ninjas. Do I even have to explain why this isn’t valid?

by definition "An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power".

Golden Weapons altogether have none displayed level of power.

What even is this point

If mergequake was closed and Realms are still trying to share the same space, then it would immediately create a new one at the exact same place, lol. And, once again, Realms fusing is THE SAME as Mergequake occuring.

stopping a mergequake = closing the crack in reality, not stopping two realms from fusing (dont even know where u got the two realms part from)

Disagree FRA that I mentioned.

If they arent low 2-c then this doesnt matter

I do not consider Mergequake feats are not Low 2-C (Universal Level+), I have to admit that. They are 2-C (Low Multiversal Level) due to demerging TWO space-times.

 

[Minaaaa]

Golden Weapons did save its power as we see in Rebooted, when Nindroid is still erased from existence due to not being able to wield their power. If you assume it did contribute to the creation of star via its own power, then you suggest it still saved its power, thus effectively leading us to the fact that time paradox should not have been solved.

Dude what are you even saying? this wasnt even my point of the post, youre rambling about a point no one made

Of course, Garmadon gaining Megaweapon and going back in time still happened. The destruction of Megaweapon simply solved this big time paradox due to what actually caused the time paradox losing its power.

yeah, it was destroyed with the other gw, as the other scans imply. cmon man

The fact that Megaweapon had to be destroyed in order for time paradox being successfully solved was the essential part of it.

See above

One thing you don't realize is that resurrecting people, creating a portal to go back in time and making the exact versions of Ninja but with evil personality has essentially zero relationship to Attack Potency. You are simply comparing apples to oranges right now. And I doubt that you quite realize what UES means. Let me clear that for you:

i find it funny how both of you never bring up the feat of garmadon creating a canyon in ninjaball run

“Universal Energy Systems are systems in which a feat, whether it is one of physical statistics (Striking Strength or Durability) or of supernatural powers (e.g. energy beams), would also scale to all other statistics. That means if such a character for instance demonstrates a Building level fireball spell, they would be assumed to have at least Building level Striking Strength, Attack Potency and Durability. If they have other spells, like for example water blades, they would be assumed to be able to output similar attack power with those spells.”

It simply means that if character A has shown to destroy a country by energy beam, it would scale to his Durability, Striking Strength and other attacks to have the same amount of Attack Potency. Same goes another way: if a character B is shown to destroy a country by a punch, we can assume that his spells have similar Attack Potency, as well as durability.

The problem is: HAX Garmadon displayed is NOT Attack Potency at ALL, as I said earlier. And it says that “physical statistics <-> supernatural powers such energy beams”. You cannot scale supernatural powers which logically cannot be used as Attack Potency to Attack Potency. Stop comparing apples to oranges.

Again, youre rambling as this has absolutely nothing to do with anything

I think you do not realize what logical deduction is. You do not have to be given everything straight up. The Mergequake is what occurs when two Realms are trying to share the same space. This means two Realms try the same space IS THE SAME as mergequake occuring. Closing mergequakes, aka stoping them from “occurring”, IS THE SAME as stoping Realms trying tl share the same space. That simple. Ah, and also don't forget how Arin even notes that Lloyd closing a Mergequake is “saving the world”.

This is simply false. The realms already share the same space because of the merge. You cant stop it from merging with something its already merged with.

Omega is dependent on Mergequake feats scaling, via the rebunk which LloydBlitzed did. Garmadon scales to Omega.

See previous post

 

[JJSliderman]

This is simply false. The realms already share the same space because of the merge. You cant stop it from merging with something it’s already merged with.

They don’t share the same space is the thing. The merged realm is more equivalent to a puzzle with 17 pieces that fit next to each other, with mergequakes being those pieces trying to forcefully occupy the same space (which is why I’m fine calling it a 3-A feat potentially)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Dude what are you even saying? this wasnt even my point of the post, youre rambling about a point no one made

Stop dodging what I’m saying.

yeah, it was destroyed with the other gw, as the other scans imply. cmon man

The reasoning that you dodged covered this btw. And other scans never implied that. Garmadon is further confirmation that Megaweapon lost its power BEFORE the collision.

See above

The reason why I said it is just so you don’t say “ohhhh Tommy said it made no sense so let’s ignore this feat”.

i find it funny how both of you never bring up the feat of garmadon creating a canyon in ninjaball run

I literally did?

3) Making a crater. This was solely to stop Ninjas from winning race. His intentions were limited to that, so “wish-granting” did exactly that.

Again, youre rambling as this has absolutely nothing to do with anything

+ dodging once again. You gotta stop that. You were the one who used UES as an argument despite not even knowing how it works.

This is simply false. The realms already share the same space because of the merge. You cant stop it from merging with something its already merged with.

Only locations were “merged”. They are still explicitly recongnized as separate Realms in the show (“two Realms try to share the space”), and you still need Portal Gates in order to travel between the Realms.

See previous post

Already replied onto it.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If its creation feats are vastly below the star feat, then its an outlier. by definition "An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power".

Life hax and Portal Creation cannot be quantified power wise, your point is irrelevant

Explain how they dont and please stop nitpicking arguments. ur literally saying "well it said collide so they didnt combine" ignoring all the other evidence.

This scans says the combined powers of the GWs were used to destroy the MW, nothing mentionned abt the GWs combining with them
This one actually implies they collided with each other (crossing path with something means encountering something or someone, NOT FUSING)
This one is contradicted by S3 Nindroids dying to the GWs power (Also why would Overlord need the weapons if they were destroyed? The blob litterally has all of the GWs power + its EE is still functionnal, it wouldn't make sense for the weapons to be destroyed)
This one only states the GWs were made into the MW in S2 and later on got sent to space, it doesn't imply it combined with the other 4 GWs AT ALL
This one also implies the GWs sent the MW hurtling into space, which still doesn't imply they combined AT ALL, and hurtling implies they violently/forcefully sent the MW in space
This one just doesn't even mean combining at all, and implies the MW was destroyed by the GWs
That's what? 6 SCANS ?
Most of your evidences DOES NOT support you at all

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Mergequakes only form because one realm is attempting to merge with another, this is established in the first episode. So, by closing the mergequake, it stops one universe from forcefully merging with another at a specific spot, meaning it directly counters the motion of the universe.

it explicitly says “two Realms try to share the same space”, not “one tries to merge with another” btw (which is why I believe it is 2-C and not Low 2-C)

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Again, youre rambling as this has absolutely nothing to do with anything

He's not rambling, this is a VERY important point of this thread

 

[Minaaaa]

When other scans are against it? I do not recall a single one saying that Megaweapon did not become a star. Even Tommy Andreasen said “The star exists in the present”…

Dude, read the original post. If you dont want to engage with the arguments,

It genuinely never created anything quantifiable, once again? All it did was:
1) Resurrecting Soto’s crew with their exact identities. This is Resurrection, not Creation.
2) Creation of portal that went back to time. Portals are not measurements of Attack Potency. His intention was also to stop Lloyd from training, and he didn’t look tired after doing that at all.
3) Making a crater. This was solely to stop Ninjas from winning race. His intentions were limited to that, so “wish-granting” did exactly that.
4) De-aging dinosaur and Ninjas. Again, that’s Age Manipulation which is not quantifiable. How are you going to scale it to Attack Potency? Like, 70 years back in time = wall level, 100000 years back in time = Star Level? And once again, he was not tired after this particular feat.
5) Making evil copies of the Ninjas. Do I even have to explain why this isn’t valid?

Those feats are vastly lower than the star feat, even the crater creation feat. The feat would STILL be an outlier due to nothing even close to the same level of power happens.

If mergequake was closed and Realms are still trying to share the same space, then it would immediately create a new one at the exact same place, lol. And, once again, Realms fusing is THE SAME as Mergequake occuring.

Only locations were “merged”. They are still explicitly recongnized as separate Realms in the show (“two Realms try to share the space”), and you still need Portal Gates in order to travel between the Realms.

If only locations were merged, then the feat isnt even tier 2. congrats, youve debunked the feat youve been so hard at trying to prove.

The reasoning that you dodged covered this btw. And other scans never implied that. Garmadon is further confirmation that Megaweapon lost its power BEFORE the collision.

Are we still using garmadon's statment? a statement that doesnt prove you right and you have to blatently misinterpret to get the highest possible interpretation from.

 

[JJSliderman]

I’ve been saying I’m fine with it not being tier 2, since the merged realm all exists within one space-time. But the feat should still be 3-A.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If only locations were merged, then the feat isnt even tier 2. congrats, youve debunked the feat youve been so hard at trying to prove.

No, as the Ethereal Divide was affected as well as it obviously no longer seperates the Realms in the same way

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Those feats are vastly lower than the star feat, even the crater creation feat. The feat would STILL be an outlier due to nothing even close to the same level of power happens.

You haven't shown any AP feat who consistanly debunks the Star one, Wish granting and Life hax are not quantifiable and cannot be used at all

 

[Minaaaa]

Life hax and Portal Creation cannot be quantified power wise, your point is irrelevant

This scans says the combined powers of the GWs were used to destroy the MW, nothing mentionned abt the GWs combining with them

If the GW work on UES, as you have put out, this is not a point

This one actually implies they collided with each other (crossing path with something means encountering something or someone, NOT FUSING)

Combined with the other statement, they fused

This one is contradicted by S3 Nindroids dying to the GWs power (Also why would Overlord need the weapons if they were destroyed? The blob litterally has all of the GWs power + its EE is still functionnal, it wouldn't make sense for the weapons to be destroyed)

Dude, do you not know what reforging is? He melted them down because they were in a different state

This one only states the GWs were made into the MW in S2 and later on got sent to space, it doesn't imply it combined with the other 4 GWs AT ALL

Again, read other statements as a whole. If the Mw and GW fused, then they went to space together.

This one also implies the GWs sent the MW hurtling into space, which still doesn't imply they combined AT ALL, and hurtling implies they violently/forcefully sent the MW in space

Man did you even watch the show? they clearly combined with each other

This one just doesn't even mean combining at all, and implies the MW was destroyed by the GWs

Yeah it got destroyed, when they all exploded in space. this is hard to understand. Do i literally have to spell it out for you?

• Scans saying they collided + scans saying they combined = they collided and combined
• Scans saying GW and MW went to space together + they both got destroyed = no star level

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If the GW work on UES, as you have put out, this is not a point

No they don't

Dude, do you not know what reforging is? He melted them down because they were in a different state

Different state doesn't destroyed, especially when its powers are STILL functionnal

• Scans saying they collided + scans saying they combined = they collided and combined
• Scans saying GW and MW went to space together + they both got destroyed = no star level

6 scans + WOG + Zane statements against you is pure madness

Man did you even watch the show? they clearly combined with each other

They did not FRA

Again, read other statements as a whole. If the Mw and GW fused, then they went to space together.

Nothing in the scan implies that

Combined with the other statement, they fused

​

9. Association fallacy​

This is when someone claims that since A has certain qualities, and B is in some way associated with A, then B has those qualities as well, without actual proof of this.

Example: "Many Naruto ninjas use genjutsu. Therefore Gai knows genjutsu as well."

While this could be possible, there is no confirmation, and merely because other ninjas know it doesn't mean he does.

Dude, do you not know what reforging is? He melted them down because they were in a different state

Different state ≠ Destroyed. Prove how are the GWs were destroyed if they still maintained their power and propreties.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Dude, read the original post. If you dont want to engage with the arguments.

I did, doesn't refute the fact that you are dodging my points right now.

Those feats are vastly lower than the star feat, even the crater creation feat. The feat would STILL be an outlier due to nothing even close to the same level of power happens.

These feats are not AP feats, just HAX. You keep ignoring that. I would frankly ask you to stop practicing such things.

If only locations were merged, then the feat isnt even tier 2. congrats, youve debunked the feat youve been so hard at trying to prove.

Locations were merged by the BIG MERGE. Mergequakes now merge the TWO REALMS. I don’t see me debunking myself.

Are we still using garmadon's statment? a statement that doesnt prove you right and you have to blatently misinterpret to get the highest possible interpretation from.

It does not? We are visually shown Golden Weapon blasting Megaweapon while Garmadon says “you used Golden Weapons to destroy ny Megaweapon”. Additionally, he mentions the destruction of Megaweapon BEFORE the collision. I see no misinterpretation.

 

[Minaaaa]

No, as the Ethereal Divide was affected as well as it obviously no longer seperates the Realms in the same way

There literally no evidence of the ED being affected by the merge.

You haven't shown any AP feat who consistanly debunks the Star one, Wish granting and Life hax are not quantifiable and cannot be used at all

Literally every other feat of the weapons and in the series. No one has ever preformed a feat near star level, therefore its an outlier

 

[JJSliderman]

Being honest, if we’re calling the star creation an outlier, then 6-A is also an outlier since there’s no other feats that scale to the ninja that really get close to that (they were large town for years at max).

 

[Lloydblitzed]

There literally no evidence of the ED being affected by the merge.

The Ninjago Realm was expanded, meaning the Divide was also moved by this expansion

Literally every other feat of the weapons and in the series. No one has ever preformed a feat near star level, therefore its an outlier

Provide a single AP feat (except Ninjago Islands Creation) made by the GWs that suggest its an outlier.

 

[Minaaaa]

Different state doesn't destroyed, especially when its powers are STILL functionnal

It does man

6 scans + WOG + Zane statements against you is pure madness

You never debunked any of my scans (and purposfully ignored some)

They did not FRA

Then what did they do here?

Nothing in the scan implies that

Youre ignoring the scans

Different state ≠ Destroyed. Prove how are the GWs were destroyed if they still maintained their power and propreties.

Lego website literally says they were

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Being honest, if we’re calling the star creation an outlier, then 6-A is also an outlier since there’s no other feats that scale to the ninja that really get close to that (they were large town for years at max).

Which makes no sense considering the GWs togheter only has 2 AP feats, so how are we even getting an outlier from a weapon that has only shown 2 feats?
Also, the Ninjas already scaled to the GWs before the Large Town feat even occured, but ig nobody took the feat in consideration back then

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

If the GW work on UES, as you have put out, this is not a point

I already explained why UES argument is not even supposed to work here, but of course, keep dodging.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It does man

It does not, again how do you destroy a weapon which still maintains its original powers + EE

You never debunked any of my scans (and purposfully ignored some)

I debunked most of them who were obviously not supporting your claims

Then what did they do here?

They destroy the MW

Youre ignoring the scans

You are mainly lying to yourself here

Lego website literally says they were

There are more scans against it + S3 contradicts it

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If the GW work on UES, as you have put out, this is not a point

I like ur incapability of responding against why MW = Individual GW in Power, as well as scaling LIFE HAX to AP

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Being honest, if we’re calling the star creation an outlier, then 6-A is also an outlier since there’s no other feats that scale to the ninja that really get close to that (they were large town for years at max).

We can do that even further:
Why Star Level doesn’t work? Because we have 6-A scaling and there is only one 4-C feat.
Why 6-A doesn’t work? Because we have Large Town scaling and there is only one 6-A feat.
Why Large Town doesn’t work? Because Morro performed that feat only once, and we have far more Wall Level Feats.

 

[Minaaaa]

I did, doesn't refute the fact that you are dodging my points right now.

I never dodged any of your points

These feats are not AP feats, just HAX. You keep ignoring that. I would frankly ask you to stop practicing such things.

I already explained why UES argument is not even supposed to work here, but of course, keep dodging.

IF they use UES, then the hax applies. Does garmadon creating the canyon not scale to its ap?

Locations were merged by the BIG MERGE. Mergequakes now merge the TWO REALMS. I don’t see me debunking myself.

Which two realms are they merging then

It does not? We are visually shown Golden Weapon blasting Megaweapon while Garmadon says “you used Golden Weapons to destroy ny Megaweapon”. Additionally, he mentions the destruction of Megaweapon BEFORE the collision. I see no misinterpretation.

• Garmadon tells the story to the group on how the ninja got rid of the mw
• Garmadon says they collided with each other and shot into space

He never once implies the events u described happened 1:1, thus youre misinterpreting him

 

[Lloydblitzed]

IF they use UES, then the hax applies. Does garmadon creating the canyon not scale to its ap?

Nope

• Universal Energy System: Universal Energy Systems (alternatively called a Universal Power System or a Connective Energy System) are systems in which a feat, whether it is one of physical statistics (Striking Strength or Durability) or of supernatural powers (e.g. energy beams), would also scale to all other statistics. That means if such a character for instance demonstrates a Building level fireball spell, they would be assumed to have at least Building level Striking Strength, Attack Potency and Durability. If they have other spells, like for example water blades, they would be assumed to be able to output similar attack power with those spells.

 

[Minaaaa]

It does not, again how do you destroy a weapon which still maintains its original powers + EE

Dude what? do you think destroyed means fully erased from existence?

They destroy the MW

So they destroy the MW, then form into another MW? do you hear yourself man? how does this make any sense?

There are more scans against it + S3 contradicts it

then show them

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Guys, listen. No ninja should have Low 2-C or 2-C tier for one logical reason. These tiers are freaking god tiers of the verse for FSM, Overlord and Source Dragons. And show makes it clear that none mortal being can scale to them (except USM and Source Power Lloyd ofc). That's why closing a Mergequakes should be considered simply as Space Manip sub-ability of any elemental power and nothing more.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Dude what? do you think destroyed means fully erased from existence?

The only time we truly see them getting destroyed is basically the MW's destruction.
Destroyed would imply that their powers would logically be rendered useless

So they destroy the MW, then form into another MW? do you hear yourself man? how does this make any sense?

Where does that conclusion come from?

 

[JJSliderman]

Also like, being honest, this isn’t an outlier for all 4 GW to make a star. They have created entire realms before (not just Ninjago).

 

[Minaaaa]

Also like, being honest, this isn’t an outlier for all 4 GW to make a star. They have created entire realms before (not just Ninjago).

The GW never created entire realms

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Guys, listen. No ninja should have Low 2-C or 2-C tier for one logical reason. These tiers are freaking god tiers of the verse for FSM, Overlord and Source Dragons. And show makes it clear that none mortal being can scale to them (except USM Lloyd ofc). That's why closing a Mergequakes should be considered simply as Space Manip sub-ability of any elemental power and nothing more.

FSM, Overlord and Source Dragon scale to 17 Universes into Low Multi, while the Ninjas scale to 2 with the Mergequakes (let's not forget the Ninjas all re-unlocked TP right before DR in Quest of the Lost Power, which explain why they got vastly stronger). Just because the god tiers scale higher into Low Multi doesn't justify anything for the Ninjas scaling, that reasoning is pretty bad

 

[Minaaaa]

But the thread isnt about the FSM or his feats so i wont derail

 

[JJSliderman]

The GW never created entire realms

Yeah they did, Dragons Rising S1 E12.